[Six Flags Great America (SFGAm) Discussion Thread]

Rock N Roller Coaster has much more themeing than the Dark Knight. And it is much more thrilling than Dark Knight.

Dark Knight is not "horrible". But many people were hoping that this ride was going to help Six Flags start moving from amusement parks to theme parks, and this did not happen. Who cares though, there is a great roller coaster next door to ride.

 

Rock N Roller Coasters theming consists of flat signs that light up (at least here in the states, I like the Paris version more, but it is basically just stage lighting). Dark Knights theming is at least 3D.

 

I can understand the disappointment if you were expecting Disney quality on this, but to be fair we all saw the budget beforehand. Disney level theming costs millions upon millions of dollars. DKC did not. For the price, I think it was pretty decent, really.

[Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK, KK) Discussion Thread]

The wooden coasters and Greezed Lightnin' are not ever going to be run again from what I hear.

The park needs to be cleaned and repainted. The process needs to be started in July to get the park running next year.

 

Says who? With the exception of Greeted potentially due to parts, rehabbing wooden coasters isn't by any means impossible, and it would be WAY cheaper than building new ones. As for needing to start painting now to open next June, I can't imagine it would take a full year to paint. It doesn't take a full year to build a huge ride when they put enough people on it, and you would hire painters as outside contractors.

 

Honestly, they could open within three months or less of figuring everything out. It depends on how fast management wants to go and can afford to go - or not go.

[Six Flags Great America (SFGAm) Discussion Thread]

^

 

There are multiple "statues" that you go by, scenes from the movie like the policy center station on fire, clowns, stuff that appears out of no where, and so on. Besides that, it is a rolled coaster, not a slow dark ride, so adding tons of movement would have been lost. Having the queue themed more than the ride is normal with coasters. It isn't like Batman the Ride has some amazing on ride stuff that reminds you of the movie, but no one complains about that.

 

Heck, I'd argue it's themed more than Rock N Roller Coaster, and that is Disney. It can also be said that all of the Disney coasters are themed more in the queue than on the ride...

 

The teeming isn't great, but what Six Flags ride is better that isn't a straight dark ride?

[Six Flags Great America (SFGAm) Discussion Thread]

The preshow was confusing, but it was the only themed part of the attraction.

I vote remove all the lights, sounds, and themeing and make it pitch black.

Rename it "Black Hole" or something.

 

 

I don't get all the hate that these rides get, but last I checked the trains were themed, the ride had a bunch of stuff in it that was themed, and the queue line after the pre-show was also themed... heck, even before the pre-show there was some, although minor, theming. I actually love some of the tiny details they pulled off in the queue line for the theming.

 

The only major misstep that I think that it had was that the preshow is a little too intense for the little ones, and then the ride itself isn't. I don't think you could run it in the dark without trouble. While I like rides in the dark, a mouse with it's quick turns probably wouldn't be very comfortable.

 

As for the pre-show, depending on the amount of people there, I've seen them not running it before. I'd wait to see if it doesn't run for a few weeks or more in a row before declaring it dead.

[Six Flags Great America (SFGAm) Discussion Thread]

Space really isn't an issue for *any* park when it comes to building new roller coasters. Remember, roller coasters ultimately use relatively smally track that can go over, under, or around existing structures if the ride is being built custom for the park. Iron Wolf's space is enough to build many coasters.

[Walt Disney World Magic Kingdom Discussion Thread]

I suppose it makes sense as it is the main park and it gets more visits from people making one day visits to Disney over "holiday makers". Also with the new expansion and the fact that it has so many rides over the other parks I can understand it.

 

That's exactly it. It's the one-day park, so Disney says why not. Epcot is actually the most heavily attended park though, but that is due to AP holders using it for dinner all the time.

 

As for why Disney has been doing this? Simple. Because they can. Especially in Florida, when people travel 500 miles to get there, spending $200+ on airfare, gas, or whatever, spend a ton of money to stay there, and a ton more money to eat there, what does it matter if the price of the parks go up? It isn't like an additional $50 for your family will make you go, "Well, instead of the trip costing $7,000, it will now cost $7,050, let's stay home." As long as the increases aren't huge, they don't run a huge risk of people not going en masse.

 

Having said that, I wonder where the price of resistance is. Nearly $100 / day per person does make a vacation like this seem really expensive when you can spend $100 / person per day on a lot of other options. They are getting *close* to the area where I expect to see push back, but their attendance levels lately have been great all season, so until they see it falling, it's just all "found money."

[Alton Towers Discussion Thread]

I've heard so much about Nemesis since it opened, how great of an inverted it is, and despite it's size and age how it still tops many enthusiasts inverted coaster list and it in many top ten lists.

 

When I got to Alton, I felt the same way. I think because Nemesis is *so* built up because of the amazing theming, I expected it to be the "be all, end all" of inverts. I came away surprised that I didn't really like it that much at all. It was cool, but I had no intention of waiting in line for it again.

 

Air was a really fun flying coaster with all the close to ground elements. Not super thrilling, but very well done package and a truly fun coaster.

 

I felt the same way about Air, and it was my favorite coaster of the park. I've managed to ride Tatsu and Superman: Ultimate Flight, and I didn't find either of them half as much fun as Air thanks to all the close to the grounds stuff. Air makes you feel like you're flying, whereas Tatsu and Superman make you feel like you're on a roller coaster, hung in a weird position... or at least that is what I and my dad who was with me felt.

 

It's been a long time since I was at Alton, but while Nemesis didn't really impress me, the park blew me away. The Houdini-in-the-castle was amazingly well done, and the theming they did with all of their rides makes it a top five park to me. Nemesis was the only thing that didn't hold up for me, perhaps because I was hearing about it for about 10 years before I got there being one of the best rides in the world. It's hard to live up to that billing.

[Rides on which you get eaten by an animal]

If Dinosaur bones count, you go through a dinosaur's "belly" bones (but not his mouth) on both US Big Thunder Mountains. I don't remember if Paris has them, and no idea about Tokyo.

 

Also, Six Flags Great America's Demon also has a mouth-hole that eats you. I can only find it on Youtube, and they aren't TPR vids, so go search it out if you would like. It's slightly different than the CGA one, and it used to have smoke and lights in it's eyes. No idea if it still does at all.

[Six Flags Great America (SFGAm) Discussion Thread]

The way the computers are set up on the older rides make the dispatch intervals different for 2 trains vs. 3. I can't speak for certain on Eagle, but I know for a fact that Whizzer will set up unless you wait to dispatch the train out of the station after the train on the course clears the block brakes right near the lift. This is why you will see the train just sitting loaded waiting to be dispatched.

 

Actually, all rides have different dispatch intervals based on the number of ride vehicles on it at any point in time. If you have two trains on a ride, and you are dispatching them really quickly and then you have an empty station for a while, that looks kinda crappy. It's much better to space them so they are apart from one another so you don't have a flurry of activity, and then a clear hole where the third train would be. Keeps the line moving smoother, and keeps the potential for downtime less as you have a little bit of time to play with dispatching the next vehicle, since it rolls in and out when it is already ready to go.

 

There are sometimes external factors that weigh on when a ride can be dispatched, and it may be for different reasons. My guess would be that if you wait to dispatch the train until the previous one on Whizzer is through the brakes near the lift, you don't run the risk of those brakes engaging a train. I know that in the early 2000s when I hung out on boards like this sometimes that it was not an uncommon occurance for the Whizzer to be pushed out of that brake in particular. The change could have more to do with the fact that the park doesn't want the embarassment of having to push it out of the brake, so to eliminate a lot of potential for that issue, they make the ride wait until it has passed through that particular section of the ride.

[Six Flags Great America (SFGAm) Discussion Thread]

^Exactly! When I was a kid, I don't remember feeling "rushed" or anything. You waited behind the line, and when your trained pulled up - you got in. Mom would strap her purse around her shoulder and you would hold on to your souvenir bag. If you had something big like a backpack, it either went on the floor of the seat you were in, or you threw it on the side. It was very basic; it's a huge contrast to how things are done now. I know some of it is needed, but it's nuts. Cedar Point didn't put in air gates on their coasters until sometime in the mid 90s.

 

With air gates, numerous consecutive announcements and extra restraints, people get more nervous. We don't have many problems with people waiting for the subways here in Chicago.

 

Some of it isn't necessary, but some of it is too. The ultimate issue here is simply this - if a park has an accident, even one that is not their fault in any way, the publicity on it is HORRIBLE. I remember a number of years back when Batman at Over Georgia "decapitated" some moron who climbed two barbed wire fences to get his hat, and then managed to stand in the way of the train. Even though the news was pretty good about saying what happened correctly, I *still* know that accident affected attendance at parks. If the addition of idiot proofing reduces capacity by 10% but increases visitation thanks to people not being scared of heading to the park by 10%, they are going to take that visitation increase every time.

 

DJexel - You're right. Viper was planned for four originally too. With Arrow rides, you can tell because they would park one train in the station, and the extras elsewhere, so you can see how many trains it was to run by taking the number of transfer tracks and adding one.

 

I've often wondered how this worked, because currently the trains are longer than that platform. Were the trains shorter when the ride first opened?

 

The trains are the same. I'm not exactly sure on if it has been modified or not, and I don't think I have the resources to check easily, unfortunately. I *know* that they got off there though.

 

Also - there's no need for the park to run three-trains on Eagle, the ride just isn't popular enough anymore. I also don't think it's fair to accuse the crew of "stacking" the trains on Eagle, since most of the time they actively wait for the previous train to hit the brakes before dispatching the next one. Even if everyone is ready, they just wait. No idea why this might be necessary (I see it on Whizzer too), but it definitely seems intentional.

 

This would be the same for any ride like this... all rides are "blocked" where you can have a vehicles and where you can't. If you send a train and it gets too far forward, the ride will shut itself down because the vehicles are in the wrong position. Those positions are points where the ride can be stopped - so for instance, it might be from the top of the lift to the first set of brakes on a ride, or whatever. In cases where they might be actively waiting, it might be due to how the ride is set up to accept the next vehicle.

 

New B&Ms are set up so that this system is helped by the ride. If you dispatch a train before you "should", the lifts will slow to a crawl to give the train before it time to get to the brakes and clear the next stopping poing. It's very rare to see this though, because their load / unload stuff is basically too slow to really let it happen.

 

Super high capacity rides like Disney stuff, and like what the Whizzer would have been like back in the day would have been set up that when in full capacity, the next stopping point is the only one cleared in the system. So, you HAVE to send the ride at the right time because if not, the ride vehicles waiting in the station cause a stack and the whole system shuts down.

 

As for "arrow was the last manufacturer to build high-capacity rides", Raging Bull is a capacity machine .. with three trains running, and an active crew, the line never seems to stop moving. But if you want to see real capacity, head over to Europa Park - those guys are insane with how quickly they move people through rides.

 

B&M hypers definitely do have a pretty high capacity and are FAR better than most rides built, most of their cataloug is not built with capacity at much of a premium. Arrow built *everything* that they did as high capacity machines... Arrow freaking mine trains have capacities higher than B&M hypers. Adventure Express at King's Island has a capacity of 1600ish.

 

Not saying that the B&M rides aren't decent at capacity, but that they don't as a company focus on capacity as much as Arrow did with every aspect of their business back in the 80s and early 90s. And again, that is because parks with the exception of perhaps the Disney and Universal parks, aren't really looking at capacity like they used to, due to a whole variety of factors.

[Six Flags Great America (SFGAm) Discussion Thread]

Nice to see you back goatdan!

 

Guys, listen to him.....he has good working knowledge of the park. That's all I'll say. ::

 

So... you can trust me on those Batman LEDs, hey

 

Having said that, I would never claim me to have a ton of knowledge about any of it, I just like to randomly sit and watch operations at different places, so it gives me some interesting background to build on...

 

I still sit and look at the Whizzer station and wonder what it was like when they had that many trains running on it. Did they unload, then move the train up for loading? I was just a little too young to recall that, and I don't know if I've seen pictures.

 

Unload was in the first station that is now a series of brakes (It's still there, there are chains up on your right when you get there). I'd have to actually look at the ride to remember, but there were two blocks on the lift, one at the block brakes, and then I believe a total of five or six on the return trip to the station. With no seatbelts or airgates, there was very little pausing there at all, and as long as you were cranking I *think* that it was six trains, but may have been five that could go on it at once, so long as you were cranking, the spacing didn't get all screwy, and you could keep cranking away.

 

A lot of rides that have ride systems designed like this either don't run this way any more or do on only extremely rare situations, except for in places like the Disney parks. The thing is that if there is a load issue for even a minute, the ride has to stop ride vehicles at whatever the hold point is, which shuts down the ride. In the day and age where riders can't be told they have to just walk into the ride vehicle or they can't ride (which, for the record, I agree with) and where you can't send a ride with the hope that they buckle their seat belt (which, I also agree with), it's nearly impossible to keep rides like that going without shutting everything down. The rides that do it - again, mostly Disney things - are generally designed where when they know there will be a loading issue, there is a way they can pull a vehicle to the side, or use a different loading platform, or whatever to keep them moving.

[Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK, KK) Discussion Thread]

This section alone, I couldn't agree with you more. I remember coming back in 2009 and seeing the park had actually boosted a little in quality. It seemed less run-down and there was more being put into cleanliness and up-keeping, including re-paintings. The Chang repaint wasn't something I was totally for since they went from Purple, to blue supporting, but I got used to it and actually enjoyed the freshness of the coaster. That, and there was a wonderful balance of foliage I noticed in the park.

 

Just saying, those that hadn't been to the park since, say, 2002 missed out on a noticeable quality boost.

 

Before that chance happening in 2007 - basically, I went to a business meeting and the people I went with said, "Hey, let's stop in Kentucky Kingdom!" so I went - 2002 was my previous year, and it sucked. Bad. They had the bridge and back section closed off, the ride operators were the worst that I had ever seen, period, doing horribly dangerous things - my "favorite" was watching an employee ride the floor down right in front of me on T2 and then jump out of the way when the train started toward him - and the people were not friendly at all. We were stopping in for a couple hours on the way to Holiday World, and we really only wanted to take a few quick rides and then head to Holiday World... My big memory from that year was getting to the bridge, starting up it and having a Security Guard near us start screaming at us to get back from the bridge or we'd be kicked out. We asked what was going on, and were told that no one was to cross the bridge. It took us about 5 minutes to get it out of him that this was normal, and that 3/4ths of the park opened *an hour* later.

 

One of my favorite pictures from that trip is the picture we took of my friend in front of the guard as we waited when he was looking the other way. You can see the disgust on my friend's face who was in the picture. We decided to wait out the last 30 minutes only for Chang, and then we were impressed to see giant chunks of the paint peeling off it when it finally opened.

 

2007 was a few days before the Superman incident, and it was like we were in a whole new park. It looked great, and was a relaxing environment to be in. The employees were all super friendly, and the rides were relatively well run. My only regret was we didn't have much time, and I didn't force my way on Greezed Lightning. I just missed riding Tidal Wave when it was at Great America, just missed it again at Six Flags Over Georgia, and really wanted to ride it. I figured I'd get there next time I went through the area... *sigh*.

[Six Flags Great America (SFGAm) Discussion Thread]

The American Eagle's stated capacity of 1800 / hour MUST be for both sides of it, and was probably from when it came out - and there was 3 trains per side.

 

I can't find the fact sheet, but I'm absolutely sure AE's capacity was in the 3ks if not 4 when it came out. I remember Magnum being 2,100/hour and Gemini was something astronomical.

 

Arrow was the last manufacturer that seemed to really build for capacity. Shockwave, built immediately before Magnum, had a theoretical capacity of 2,000 / hour, and they were originally planning on adding a fourth train to it. I have some Arrow docs somewhere talking about it, and you can see the proof of it by the fact that the ride had three transfer tracks for trains...

 

I have no clue why it was never added, but if it was the ride capacity would have been nearly 2,800 riders per hour. Which is flat out insane. That's more than twice as many people as can ride Millennium Force theoretically in an hour.

 

The priority isn't on capacity like it once was, and you can blame that on a LOT of different reasons... but, having said all that, theoretical capacity has changed too. The Arrow numbers used to be pretty much real world numbers, but from what I have observed, unless you are running B&M and Intamin coasters without stopping to load / unload in the station, you can never actually get the real numbers for their capacities. But, with things like the upcharge line skips, does it make those a better value to actually have the line go slower? If the latest and greatest new rides had capacities of 2800 per hour, and lines were consistently 15-20 minutes, would you want to pay for the upcharge? Now it costs the park in two ways, the fact that the ride cost far more to get that added capacity, and the fact that less people see the upcharge as worth it because the ride doesn't have horrible lines.

 

Revolution at Magic Mountain could do 3,400/hour. That wouldn't matter now; in it's present condition not many people want to ride it

 

Whizzer ran 3-4 until sometime in the mid-80's. No air gates, no seatbelts; people got in and after a quick visual check, the train was off. They still run 3 on busy days, but they stack. Heck, they often stack 2 trains.

 

I believe that Whizzer used to actually run either five or six trains when it opened. That changed multiple times to become less and less, and adding things like air gates, seat belts, off ride storage of crap, and so on slow things down a lot. That is a ride where I have also seen full, ready trains sit there waiting while the ride ops stand watching the ride, so I'm guessing it has to do with an old ride system that the park hasn't found a reason to upgrade.

[Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK, KK) Discussion Thread]

It's interesting to me that the video about additions to the park talks about how much Ed and his group did to add coasters, and then downplays the water park angle, but then the plan if Ed does re-open is to double the size of the water park.

 

To me, the whole land rental thing always smelled funny. If you don't actually own your own land or control your own parking, that makes things interesting. On top of that, what incentive does the government who does control that have to increasing their help with the land and upgrading things? Seems like a horrible deal.

 

The other thing is that Six Flags under the Shapiro management did seem to really try investing in the park - rides were being painted, the park was being cleaned up, and everything was looking better it seemed. I remember visiting almost by accident in 2007 after I had said that I would never visit again due to the horrible operations earlier in the 2000s, and I was floored by the differences. You could tell the park was really coming together... and then the Superman accident happened. It wasn't just that the park decided to remove the Hellevator like the video about rides being added and whatnot says, it's that they had one of the worst media fiascos for a ride in the last 5 years... and somehow, their attendance more or less stayed the same and it didn't totally bottom out. To me, that says something.

 

I'd love to revisit Kentucky Kingdom, but I really don't know what it would need to fix it. The height limits with the airport limit monstrous rides that could be added, the layout just flat out sucks, and T2 and Twisted Sisters or whatever they were called were not fun. Thunder Run was good, but with Chang gone and the rumors of Greezed Lightning not returning, there isn't tons that I see to get people in once, much less twice. It takes more than just one good ride to make a patron click the turnstyle, and even a $25 season pass won't help you.

 

I hope them the best, I'd love to see it reopen again, and I'd love to have as good of a time as I had there in 2007 again!

[Favorite Defunct Roller Coaster/Ride]

I love Arrow Suspended rides, so Eagle's Fortress sucks, although I get it. I also really wanted to check out the weirdness that was Batman and Robin, but alas...

 

I'm honestly floored by the number of rides I have been on that aren't open any more. I visited whole parks (SFNO, GL, SFKK, Fun Spot Indiana...) right before they shut down. My love of odd, crappy rides and their history means I'm more concerned about riding what is probably going to be torn down next then what is the next big thing.

 

I also regret not riding Black Hole at Alton Towers when I was there, I didn't realize what it was...

 

...I think I'd go with Big Dipper or Son of Beast. Both of the actual rides were extremely meh to me, but not just did I find their histories fascinating, my trips to the parks were with some of my best friends, and are part of my fondest memories from those trips.

[Six Flags Great America (SFGAm) Discussion Thread]

^^

 

I'm going to email you (GCG) a more detailed response that I think you'll get a kick out of, but I doubt anyone else will. Having said that, the gist is that the type of capacity you are talking about has mostly disappeared due to budget concerns. The capacities for rides like Superman are way closer to probably an 800 rider per hour max then the 1100ish that is claimed. The American Eagle's stated capacity of 1800 / hour MUST be for both sides of it, and was probably from when it came out - and there was 3 trains per side.

 

In those cases, both of those capacities are actually excellent. It belies a different trend however, which is that parks aren't focusing on capacity nearly as much as they were even 10 years ago. The Eagle used to run 3 trains, it now runs two. They probably could have modified it to run the 3 again, but that would be for a lot of extra cost... so they are okay with it running less. A lot of Anton designs were made to accomodate 2000 rider / hour. No one makes them like that any more, and a big part of that is that no one demands them like that any more... other than Disney.

[Walt Disney World Disney's Animal Kingdom Discussion Thread]

My thoughts instantly went to the guy taking it on Kilamanjaro Safaris so he could yell, "HE'S COMING RIGHT AT US!" and shoot stuff along the way.

[Mt. Olympus Water & Theme Park Discussion Thread]

Indiana Beach has been under new ownership since about 2009. Every year since, things have quickly gone down hill. Those 2 woodies always ran great and were always reliable. I dunno, I don't want to speculate what is really or was really going on at Indiana Beach... but I've heard good reports this year so far. I hope the Indiana Beach I've known and loved for most of my life returns.

 

I was there the year Cornball Express opened, and it was outstanding, but the Hurricane was a mess. I don't deny anything about what has happened the last couple years, but it definitely didn't always run awesome in previous management either. I've just never found the metal supported woodies to hold up worth anything.

 

The steel supported woodies are generally more jarring than wood supported woodies, especially if not maintained well. Steel doesn't have the same amount of movement - or "give" - that a wooden structure does. The non-intended accelerations (pot holes, etc.) are more efficiently transmitted through the track -> wheels -> seat and into YOU, the rider. With a brand new steel structure woodie (I'm thinking Hades in 2005, it's first season) a coaster can run GREAT. There is less momentum lost with a steel structure, as the forces, yadda yadda yadda... but when it's not maintained, things start to hurt.

 

I mostly agree with you, but it seems like the lack of give should also theoretically make it hold up better, longer. I would expect the additional give in a wooden structure would accelerate the appearance of potholes and whatnot, but with few exceptions (Son of Beast, I'm lookin' at you... er... your remains) it seems like steel framed wood gets WAY worse potholes WAY quicker.

 

Right? Or my imagination from relatively limited ride experience on the steel woodies?

[Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread]

I don't know... at least what it seems is the larger the launch, the more problems the ride has.

 

When speaking of mechanical launches this can be the case, to some degree.

However that's not really the case when you are speaking of a magnetic launch, 15 years ago it probably had some effect how fast it was going to launch, but nowadays the technology has come such a long way.

 

The modern LSM launches don't have any moving parts, since the fins can be used for both brakes and launches (which is why LSM has become the more dominant as opposed to LIM's who are more power effective) removing all problems with the mechanical issues (on the launch itself).

 

Whenever a magnetic launch coaster is down it's because of the programing causing troubles (this is most often the case with the hydraulic launchers as well) and then it doesn't really matter if it's a 70km/h or a 110km/h launch, it's going to break down anyway.

Sure the speed of the launch may have some degree of causing problems, but not as much as to were it's significant.

 

The faster the launch is, the more magnets that controls the launch, and just by default the more complex the launch is. And the words that you just used are the exact reason that I would expect that B&M isn't exactly wanting to do a launched ride as it is... "it's going to break down anyway."

 

Again, what B&M rides are known for their significant downtime? This is a company that until relatively recently put dog-legs on all of the coaster lifts that it made to disengage the train from the lift chain exactly right to limit maintenance and increase reliability.

 

I would have to disagree.

 

But were not talking about creating a new coaster type, were talking about putting a launch on already developed coaster types, so you're argument is pointless.

 

I'd argue that it isn't pointless at all. A launched coaster is significantly different in design than an "already developed coaster type." You're talking about probably needing to redesign the trains to handle the launch, and the the ride layout is completely different based on the fact that it is controlled by the initial speed of the train, and not just the pull of gravity.

 

It isn't like you can just take the lift off a normal ride and put in LIMS or LSMs. It requires a lot of additional work.

 

Also, your response seems rather rude just because he is disagreeing. I don't know the guys at B&M personally, so I'm just hypothesizing just like Justice was. No reason to get angry or defensive. If you disagree, please give us additional reasons. If there isn't dialogue, it's pointless to talk

[Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread]

There's really no point for them to start out with a smaller ride, they already know how to make a big coaster, so there's no problem there, just build what the first buyer asks for.

 

Making launch for a smaller coaster won't be any different than making a launch for a bigger coaster (unless you want it faster than 120km/h) it just needs to be longer to gain the speed, but on the technical side it's all the same.

 

I don't know... at least what it seems is the larger the launch, the more problems the ride has.

 

Are there any B&M rides that anyone can think of that had a ton of problems opening, and again, are there any B&M rides people can think of that that have considerable downtime regularly? I can't think of any. Everything they do screams reliability, and that is the exact opposite thing that I see with launches.

 

While you build whatever a park asks for, if you think that particular design might change the public perception of your company, it suddenly becomes more valuable to not make a ride and keep that reputation intact.

[Mt. Olympus Water & Theme Park Discussion Thread]

Maybe it's due to the parks claims?

 

Bingo. I've said it before, but really the difference between what a roller coaster is really comes down to how the park bills that ride. You can classify lots of things different ways - there used to be "inversion debates" about 12 years ago with enthusiasts over if the inclined loop on Chang for instance counted as an inversion, and then if the first overbank turn on Millenium Force counted as an inversion and so on.

 

Ultimately, the owners of the ride said that Chang was an inversion, and Millenium Force wasn't, so how much arguing can there really be? If Mt Olympus wants to call Hades the first ever donut buster coaster, it's the first ever donut buster coaster. If you believe it is up to you, but it's a losing battle to argue that a ride is or does something that the park doesn't claim that it does, or doesn't do something that they claim it does.

 

With that, I'll just add that I have always found it fascinating that the steel supported wood coasters I have been on all seem to age really, really poorly. I heard about Hades before this being really rough, the MegaZeph was a jackhammer when I rode it, the Villian went from awesome to crap quickly, the Hurricane and Cornball Express were both really jackhammer-y... Anyone know why? I would have thought these would have all held up a LOT better than they seem to.

[Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread]

I however am going to throw this idea out there....it has been long rumoured that B&M is ready to try their hand at building a launched coaster. Perhaps "Project 2014" is that first foray into launched coasters for the company.

 

I know it wasn't exactly all them, but Hulk...

 

As for B&M / launched, if the rumors about this thing being BIG are true, I wouldn't expect to see it as a huge B&M launched ride. B&M is generally a more conseravative company, so I would expect their first launched ride to be significantly smaller so they can feel comfortable working out the bugs.

 

Could be totally wrong, but I just don't see it.

[Mt. Olympus Water & Theme Park Discussion Thread]

Given Hades history of stalling out and seeing the way the new train is pacing by the end of the ride I'm guessing the no empty seat rule is to decrease the chances of the ride getting stuck. Heavy train means less slowing down throughout the course.

 

Yup, that's my guess too. Force the ride to be full and there is a far better chance it won't stall out.

 

As for the ride itself, I've never been on it - is it decent? I watched POVs on it both before and now after the video, and it seems like it would be fun until it hits the lift, and after that point it just seems dull. The corkscrew seems more interesting now than the amazingly slow hill that was there before, but not enough that it looks like a great ride. Are the videos deceiving?

[Six Flags Great America (SFGAm) Discussion Thread]

I would agree that Great America is much better than the other Six Flags parks. But still way behind Cedar Point. Multiple trains can help efficiency, but not when they are stacking for minutes and plenty of empty seats going on (including double seats...). This is all year long, not just at the start or end of the season. GAm has some great employees - they really try their best. But my main point is they don't have much to work with. The training simply is not there to begin with.

 

I've spent a lot of time at Six Flags parks, and while I have seen that sort of delay at every other one of them, I have never seen it at Great America personally. In fact, I can think of more times that I have seen perfect ops there than slow ones.

 

I agree with the seat thing to an extent, but it's also a philosophy of let people ride where they want versus get people on faster. I also fall into the category of liking going exactly where I want.

 

PS. While I say that I like these things as a guest, as a business I think what Cedar Fair does makes a lot of sense, and my stock portfolio would back that claim up

 

PPS Sorry for the two posts right in a row, posting from my phone and it's really tough to edit these together.

[Six Flags Great America (SFGAm) Discussion Thread]

If, on very slow days, some rows are roped off I think that's ok. I've seen Dragon Challenge with a sparse crowd and it takes more time for the ops to buckle all the empty seats when guests are allowed to sit anywhere compared to just leaving empty seats buckled and only having to push the restraint down.

 

No, at least when I was there, it was not to help sent trains quicker... Without sounding like too big of a dork, there are two theories to theme park operation at play here... The first is always leave a line because it extends the in-park stay and doing so ups per capita guest spending, the second is run them through as quickly as possible and as many times as they want. It decreases guest spend, but theoretically ups word-of-mouth because people talk about how great it was.

 

The time I was at Cedar Point, they roped off 2/3rds of three different rides and made the waits about 20 minutes apiece for them. I've also been to Great America and seen them running two trains on Demon with only one person on it.

 

Neither way is wrong but I like the two trains way more. And I also have no idea if Cedar Point still does that.