goatdan
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Posts posted by goatdan
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They were testing these last week when I was there. I know it's been on the drawing boards and is WAY behind when they wanted to launch it, and I was SO happy that I got to go before they launched it. It's also interesting because at a lot of attractions, they have the FASTPASS+ signage up already, but they made the + disappear by putting tape over it.
I don't like the idea of setting my Fastpasses weeks in advance - using the Dining Plan was tough enough to make sure that I was in the right places at the right times.
The personalization sounds sort of neat, but I generally like rides that tell me a story, not that make me into a story. Which, if every time I ride Small World or Pirates I've got random dolls popping up or the Pirates yelling at the people on the boats, I can't imagine I'll enjoy that. On top of that, with a ride like Small World you're talking about a boat of 15+ people floating by, how can you personalize an experience for all 15 of them at the same time?
The other thing that isn't discussed here is that at the end of the day, this is supposed to "fix" their Fastpass issues. What I mean by that is this - when Disney created Fastpass, the goal was that if they could get people out of line for three of the big rides and save three hours of your time, those same people would then spend their three new hours of "found" time in a store buying stuff... and it didn't work. What happened is that per cap spend wasn't touched by Fastpass...
In fact, Fastpass hurt the first-time guest because if they didn't understand the system perfectly and didn't use it or didn't use it to it's full potential, they would wait in longer lines while those that were there often got on more rides. And, the first time users were the ones that would spend more money with a better experience than the regulars... so that was an issue.
At the same time, because they launched it free, they were not able to capitalize on the line-jump abilities like other parks were. If Disney sold the rights to Fastpass to just 1,000 people per park at $50 per day (extremely low numbers that most regional parks top), it would be a $7.3 million dollar industry. But, they introduced it for free, and people didn't want it gotten rid of because they felt entitled to it.
What is supposedly going to happen with these bands is that they will be able to monetize the Fastpass privileges for the first time. Rumor is that if you're staying at a more expensive hotel, you'll get additional opportunities for more Fastpasses than those staying at the budget hotels, which will be reduced. Off-property guests are rumored to only be able to get what is let over when they arrive, which depending on how many Fast Passes Disney allows to be issued may mean that the discrepancy between an on-property, high paying guest and an off-property guest may be pretty huge.
I'm very curious to see exactly how this all works out, and it is something that I've been following very carefully for the last few years. The cards that Disney already gave you did everything else that the bands do other than the personalization and Fast Pass early reservation. Last week, I could wave it by those exact Mickey things to open my room, pay for stuff if I knew my code, enter parks, get Fastpasses (which printed out, yes - but then I knew when the return time was) and so on. I ate at Be Our Guest too, and while the "bring your stuff to your table" thing was very cool, I couldn't have guessed what I wanted for food days in advance of my visit.
It's going to be fascinating to see how this rolls out, and see how it is accepted. I was talking about this to my dad, who is a lifelong Disney fan who I blame for a lot of my theme park fascination, and he said that he thought it would ruin the experience. I'm really curious to see how the balance works.
Okay, whew. Sorry, that was a lot. I owe you a cookie if you read all this
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Although I love non-chain parks, my favorite park for years has been Disneyland.
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^Not to get too far off topic, but I imagine that had they held out long enough, the lower lot of USH might have become a mini Marvel area---just to spite Disney and lock up that property.
Or they could have just kept putting plans together, and told Disney they would cancel the plans if they were bought out for like $250 million dollars or something outrageous, and they probably would have gotten it, which might have been even more diabolical. Disney would have then essentially paid them a ton to make Potter instead of Marvel.
In one more interesting thing, I heard that Universal had to keep a certain level of show quality with all of the Marvel things, or else Marvel could essentially say that they weren't keeping things up to snuff and pull out from the contract (although I did not see this directly referenced in the contract, so take it with a grain of salt). Because of this, Disney supposedly hired people to go and just ride Spider-Man over and over and over for the first few months of the contract to try to prove that things on it were broke and were not getting fixed. They were looking for everything they could, and after a while they determined that they were really maintaining the rides well, and they couldn't get out of the contract that way, so the idea was stopped.
But damn, I would have loved a job for a couple months of going and riding Spider-Man 25 times a day... while getting paid!
Back to Animal Kingdom, what is everyone else's thoughts about Everest? My disappointment came from not the ride experience, but from the theming which seemed surprisingly minimal. Every time I saw a train go up the lift, it ruined the illusion of how tall the mountain was. The inside-the-mountain parts were just pitch black except if you looked at where the track was where you could see lights below it, ruining the effect I thought. Finally, you crested by the Yeti at the end seemingly just feet from the unload station. If he was really that close, couldn't he just hop down and get you right there?
I was completely surprised to find myself realizing that I like the Matterhorn's theming ten times better than Everest. Am I alone in that?
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I am pretty sure Joey was talking about executives from today, lol. Walt Disney passed away over 45 years ago.
I do agree that it varies executive to executive, though, but I feel like most tend to stay in their offices more than roaming their parks.
I know, it's just he (Disney) had a LOT going on and still managed to roam his park regularly, so I think that the excuse of the executives being "too busy" isn't necessarily a good one. And again, I can think of at least a half dozen parks where the executives are regularly found out and roaming their parks.
Just using one example, Matt Ouimet was known for almost constantly being in Disneyland when he was Park President there. Amongst Disneyland fans, the time that he was president is known for the incredible level of attention that was done to sprucing up the park and making it look like new for the 50th Anniversary. He left shortly after this (to go work for Sheraton Hotels in a management role), but returned recently to the amusement world as the CEO of Cedar Fair.
He is a strong advocate of walking the parks, and he estimates that half of his time as Cedar Fair *CEO* is spent walking the parks. Here, check it out:
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Just out of curiosity, who here remembers riding Twisted Twins? That thing was brutal every time I had the chance to ride it. I think I would have rode T2 instead given the choice, and that thing beat the crap out of you too.
I wonder if any of the waterpark plans are the same plans that Six Flags had for the park right before they let it go? I remember seeing concept art when they took out Chang, and I seem to recall the talk being about installing much of the same stuff Ed talks about here.
It could be good news for the park, but we'll have to see exactly how it works out. On one hand, it sounds like they have a ton of money for the first year of operations, but after that... who knows? I wish them all the best, and if they re-open Greezed Lightning, I WILL find a way to make it down there, as it is one of the few roller coasters that I've really wanted to ride, and I somehow missed riding it in twice - both times with it operating. Yarg.
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Found the contract online:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1262449/000119312510008732/dex1057.htm
I stand corrected.
That's cool! Good find!
From what I understand, the provision of them needing to move forward with a Marvel Universe in Hollywood (as is outlined in the contract) was decided against just months before the Disney buy out happened. Essentially, because they built Spider-Man in Japan in 2004, they had continued to pay their option fee to keep the exclusive rights US-wide (B2 if you're following the contract). They took the two years before paying the option, started paying the option again in 2006 with eyes on a 2011 opening. Supposedly, around June of 2009 Universal decided it was not going to build a Marvel Universe in Universal Hollywood, and decided to cut payments to Marvel. Had they held out for two more months, those rights would have been worth millions for Disney to buy back.
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Actually, I've heard from more than one person that when they went to Orlando, the kids liked swimming in the pool at the hotel better than the parks! That has to be frustrating for the parents. I, of course, laughed at them, and explained again that this is why I have a cat...
My three year old *loved* the pools at our resort, but also loved the parks. Having said that, we decided to stay for two 'off' days at the resort to relax and have time to do stuff like that, and that worked really well. I know that when I was younger, my parents always did the parks "commando style", and I always remembering wishing I'd at least get a chance to try the pools and stuff like that, but rarely would we actually get the chance too...
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Just an FYI: having worked in this industry my entire adult life, I can tell you that most high ups are similar to the "ice queen." They walk the park, are friendly to guests who approach them, but are all business otherwise. It's just the way it is. They have so much to do behind the scenes, their walks in the parks are usually kept on a tight schedule.
(Sorry to dig up something from a few pages ago...)
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, Walt Disney would be a huge exception to this rule.
Having also said that, I think it varies a lot park to park and executive to executive. I've seen long tenured executives at some parks out and about regularly, and others you basically never see. I do think it's more common to not see them now, which in many ways is too bad, regardless of business motives.
Regarding the launch of YOLO, it looks pretty cool.
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I don't know about unrideable. I can name plenty of steel coasters that are rougher now than when they were newer. I'm not trying to attack SF either- plenty of other park's coasters have had trim adjustments to them as well, both wood and steel. Maybe the height and speed difference between them have a different effect?
Or... could it just be that like Raging Bull which seemed faster when it was built because it was one of the fastest rides, do those rides seem rougher now when compared to newly constructed rides? Not saying either is right, but it's an interesting question at the least.
Says who?Maintenence personnel. I worked in the park for a season when I was laid off from my regular job. I never worked Bull, so I have no more knowledge of it than anyone else does. I did work Batman, and asked a maintenence worker one day when they came to work on Batman what V2's holding brake's story was, and I was told it was disabled because it was putting a lot of stress on the rear spike. They previously added additional supports to both spikes after V2's first couple seasons due to the stress placed on them.
Interesting factoid that I do know... a lot of the time, people are left uninformed about the real decisions that are made, which leads to people coming up with their own hypothesises that are then shared. Other times, upper management will purposely tell people things to see what shows up on the internet, often coming up with things that are not exactly right so they can track to see who they are talking with. Not saying this was necessarily done to you, but at the same time unless I'm incorrect, the two other impulses that weren't modified (Possessed and Steel Venom) both have their holding brakes working, and Possessed is a year older than V2 is. Just a thing that makes you go "hmmm"
Note- V2 is VERY safe. Don't read into this as me saying the structure was in any way weakened. From what I know, turning the holding brake off was just to prevent a need for constant track work later in its life, work that Shockwave's first loop constantly needed towards the end- which, ironically, was needed to prevent damage because trims were never installed.Again, I wouldn't necessarily believe that. Shockwave had the mounting spot for the trims on it from day one. If you look at the lead in to the first loop on it in pictures, you can see it. There is a thread with a good picture in this thread here:
http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64505
You can see the trim spot to the lower right of the loop.
If they had seen this great expense of steel track work that was necessary because they didn't install a relatively minor braking piece to a track system that was already ready for it, why wouldn't they have installed the trim brakes to the already-existing trim brake spot to save tons of money and potentially the ride itself?
Yes, they would ABSOLUTELY install trims if it was determined they were needed. For whatever reason, Batman and Superman haven't developed the rattle Bull has. IMO, they learned a lot from Shockwave. From what I have heard, that ride got constant structural attention in the later years of its life, which was all a direct result of it not having trims going into the first loop. The amount of money they were putting into it had just as much to do with its demise as anything else did.See above. I have a very strong hunch that other outside factors contributed more to Shockwave's demise than anything else.
I don't see you coming across as arrogant or anything, and I hope you don't think I have, either. I'm simply stating my opinion, as well as a few things I have been told and believe to be fact. You have a lot of valid points, and discussions like this are what forums exist for in the first place.Cool, thanks. As I said somewhere around here (maybe a few pages back?) I've studied the industry from less of an enthusiast perspective and more of a "how does it work" perspective since I was little, and I've discovered that a lot of the things that enthusiasts take as facts are either wrong or things that are perpetuated by the parks themselves because the industry has become a highly secretive one, and they are looking to protect that.
Since though there really aren't that many 'business of rides' enthusiasts out there, I tend to like hanging around the more fun enthusiast sites, but I worry often that if I am pointing out things that I've discovered, I sound like some insider-know-it-all, when instead I'm just trying to share interesting tidbits that I know. Thanks
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I haven't been to the park in a couple years, but the last time went and rode Bull, there seemed to be a lot more B&M rattle than it used to have. I'm not saying there's anything about the ride structure that make it unsafe, but the freeze/thaw cycle every year for 13 years has to take its toll on the track a little bit. I didn't ride RB on opening day, but I did ride it about 6 weeks after. The trims came on then, too, but not as hard as they consistantly do now.
If you haven't been to the park in the last couple years, how do you know how consistently the trims are or are not coming on? I've probably managed to ride Raging Bull at least 100 times, and the trims have worked consistently in the same way every time. Without going into a bunch of details, if the train is moving slower, the trims will tug at you less or not at all... but you're actually getting a slower overall ride.
And again, if the freeze / thaw cycle would be so bad for steel coasters, wouldn't Batman beat the ever-living crap out of you by now? Wouldn't Whizzer be un-rideable?
Eagle's brakes come on HARD before the helix, not so much after they retracked it because it was adjusted,A wooden coaster's trims are completely different then a steel coaster's trims.
V2's holding brake remains off to lessen the load on the rear spike.Says who?
It's also a lot easier to reprogram existing trims than it is to install some that were never installed.If the ride was tearing itself apart, don't you think they could put some in? Also, in both of those cases, the rides were built so installation of trims would be a breeze. If installing trims really saved the parks so much money, do you really think that the accounting department would let maintenance get away with *not* installing them?
I'll just leave it at this because I have no insider knowledge, and I don't want to come off like I do, but... I think that the 'enthusiast' community often misunderstands exactly what trim brakes are used for, applying what they know from wooden rides with trim brakes (cost savings, helps to make the ride last longer / smoother) to all rides with trim brakes, although they are generally used for completely different purposes.
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^ From what I understand, that isn't true. I heard that the reason they have had the "Iron Man-o-Rail" wrapped monorail on the Magic Kingdom loop is because it doesn't enter a park, and they specifically cannot run it (or any) Marvel train over Epcot, as it would be "entering" the park. While it isn't tons of evidence, other wrapped monorails have done the Epcot loop - and it would be seen by the most people since it is actually in the park - so I feel like it should be at least somewhat accurate.
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Almost forgot - One of the highlights of the trip for me was on a day we weren't going to a park, we got on the bus early to go to where our dinner reservations were via the Magic Kingdom, and on the way there our driver got a call that there was an accident and he would have to take an alternate route. The alternate route was literally straight through the prep area for the Dwarf coaster, which was really interesting to see. Lots of areas where they were prepping theming, a bunch of shipping boxes, and the Vekoma logo was on some stuff too.
It was particularly interesting to see all of the theming being built, as while I have seen a decent number of coasters get constructed, it was my first time seeing theming actively produced. I was surprised to find it was on site.
I didn't snap any pictures, sorry. Decided to take it in instead of try to get blurry pictures.
Immediately following that, we got on a monorail only for it to breakdown. I was nearly as fascinated watching them fix that as I was with the backstage stuff.
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Quick mini-report (I did this in the other three... first visit for me in years, first for the three year old and wife...)
Overall, great day. My son just was tall enough to do Big Thunder which he was really excited for. It was fun taking him on it - it was my first roller coaster year and years ago. He loved it. He also loved Barnstormer. The New Fantasyland stuff is okay. Mermaid feels pretty short. The Seven Drawves coaster looks interesting. I'm too big to comfortably ride Space Mountain now. My son's favorite ride was Astro Orbiter. Monster's Inc Laugh Floor was surprisingly funny. Couldn't bring myself to do Stitch and see what has become of Alien Encounter. (Also, no time.)
Moment of the day was near the end of the night when everyone in our group was going on Pirates and my son said he didn't want too. The cast members were telling him it wasn't scary, and he said he wasn't scared, he just wanted to go on Splash Mountain instead. He was serious, but was too tired to go on Splash Mountain at the end of the night.
This is still an outstanding park. We got there the moment it opened (early enough to see the little show), and stayed until after closing - more then 15 total hours - and still didn't do Philharmagic (DARN, the one big regret for me of the trip! 3 year old would have loved it!), Haunted Mansion, Tom Sawyer's Island, Hall of Presidents, Mad Hatter's Teacups, Stitch, and probably a few things I'm forgetting... and it was definitely not a very busy day!
Finally, we waited for the parade. Rain caused them to cancel the regular parade, but they had some sort of rainy day parade that was totally unexpected and I thought just as much if not more fun than the regular parade would have been. Kudos to Disney for coming up with that idea!
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Quick overview of Epcot from the recent visit in years with the 3 year old and wife (for her first time...)
The future side we spent a ton of time in, and I was surprised to see just how much I still love this park. The changes made to Test Track were surprisingly outstanding, and even though the original theme is somewhat lacking, it's still perhaps the most fascinating park concept out there. The country side is also great, although tough to navigate in bad weather...
Imagination needs help. Captain EO was fun to see again, and was twenty times the show HISA was. The Land was better with narrators. The Lion King show still works surprisingly well. Test Track's new 'create-a-car' thing was outstanding. My group entered completely skeptical but exited loving it. My 3 year old's car design was the winner of our group (based on the "test" it went through). It looked hilarious. The 3 year old loved the ride too.
It's nice that so much of this park is in pavilions with air. It was SUPER HOT out, and unlike Animal Kingdom that has so little of it, it was nice to have nearly constant indoor breaks. I didn't feel totally nasty until the afternoon, which wasn't the case in any of the other parks during the trip.
I didn't do Space. I liked the update to Spaceship Earth, even the goofy thing at the end. It rained a ton in the afternoon, and there is little covered space in the countries, even the stores don't connect often. Made it tough to enjoy.
Saw Illuminations for the first time since it was updated. Outstanding show. This was our last day there, and it made a great endcap to the day. Could have easily spent two days here, and there was more than enough for the 3 year old to do which surprised me. He left wanting to do more. This might now be my favorite Florida park.
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Quick thoughts from having visited for the first time in years (with 3 year old and wife who were there for the first time in tow...)
The park seems ridiculously disjointed now that all of the movie making stuff is gone. My wife noted that the backlot tour took you through a parking lot, wardrobe, and catastrophe canyon... but no backlot. Other oddities that stuck out to me this time is Rock N Roller Coaster is barely themed to Hollywood, and the symbol of the park since they covered up the Chinese Theater has nothing to do with film either. The whole thing is broken, and my wife put it up with California Adventure as one of the worst park's she has ever been too. MGM was my favorite every previous time I had been there, including shortly after it opened. I had to agree though - Other than Tower of Terror and Fantasmic, I could care less about the rest of the park.
The park has almost nothing for a 3 year old to do. Special thanks to Disney for putting Lightning McQueen in the same stunt show where you *light a dude on fire*. That took a lot of explaining. But seriously, it was hard to entertain my son here because there were few things that he really wanted to see or do.
I would never ride Toy Story Midway Mania again.
Tower of Terror (this one only) is still my second favorite ride ever made. Everything about it is amazing, and it gave me the best drop sequence I've ever had on it too, which was a nice bonus. At the end of the ride, it took us all the way down to the screen at the bottom, turned it on for a second like the ride was over, and then shot us back up for one last drop. That's the sort of surprise stuff that theming can do for a ride.
We were able to catch the second showing of Fantasmic after the first was canceled, which made my 3 year old really happy. It had technical difficulties however (it was paused shortly after it began, but it did resume) which I found interesting but no one else in our group noticed. Amongst them, the transformation of the witch into the old hag was done without the brew with fireworks in front of her (so you could watch her change costumes since there was no smoke obscuring it), the snake did not walk, and the sound was about a half second off from the video, although the effects worked. Made for an interesting show. My wife noted how much more impressive the Disneyland version is. I agree.
I don't know if Star Wars and Cars can save this park. It feels like it needs a bit of a California Adventure overhaul to really fix it, but I also think that since it is one of four and together they bring down the crowds, it won't get it. It will be interesting to see what they come up with though.
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Just got back from Disney World for the first time in years, and the first time with my young son along too (as well as my wife's first time there!). I don't have enough thoughts and doubt I'm interesting enough to fill up an entire written trip report, so just in short...
The Wilderness Explorer thing is really cool. The 3 year old really loved it.
I thought Expedition Everest was the biggest disappointment on the trip. I'm more into the theming then the actual coasters (!!) and so much of this ride I felt left things to be desired.
I don't know if I like the Avatar idea here, but it's clear Animal Kingdom needs something else added to it. I love the theming of the park, but it sort of feels unfinished to me. It needs additional lands or something to feel like it is really telling the whole story. I'll take Avatar if I have to.
Finding Nemo: The Musical is 100 times better than I imagined.
Dinoland's theming is extremely detailed... and extremely obnoxious. While I was impressed with the lengths they went through like actually making the old parking lot, they did succeed in making me do what I usually want to do in carnivals, and that is get out. Dinosaur really shows it's age, so much worse than Indy does (or doesn't, Indy still feels totally fresh to me). I still like the name Countdown to Extinction better. It is kind of fun to yell "NOT OUR DINO!" at each of the dinosaurs you pull up to.
Overall, it was fun to be back. The park has potential to be totally amazing, I hope it keeps getting plussed up. Also, any word what the cranes are for to the left of the bridge as you head into Africa?
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While it's true the trims are set to keep the train at a specific speed, they have been changed vs. when the ride was new, the set on the camelback used to allow the teain to run faster. SF maintenence changed it to offset the aging of the ride.
What in the world "ages" on a steel coaster that wouldn't be fixed as a safety hazard? If the track is getting screwed up, wouldn't it seem dangerous to run trains over it? And it isn't like it is running with opening day wheels on it. Especially on a B&M with the wheels on the outside of the track, please describe how this aging works. I don't get it.
Also, you're claiming that the park adjusted the brakes to be harder on the ride. Remember, this is Great America - the park that didn't install trim brakes on either Superman or Shockwave even though both were made with spots for them. In particular, Shockwave was the only Arrow mega looper to not have the trims installed. I find it tough to believe that they just randomly decided to change their mind on Raging Bull.
Finally, I rode Raging Bull on opening day. The trim brakes were there. They were tugging just as hard as they do now. From how I've had it described, they are there so that you get exactly what B&M intended out of the ride - floater air over the hills, not ejector air. In fact, it would follow that you are actually getting a better ride when the trims engage harder, as the ride is clearly moving faster at that point in time.
Oh, and as for a lack of trims not saving the layout, I agree. The curvy hills really don't make for much in the way of any air, nor do they make for much in the way of laterals.
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Last time I would ever be a member, too. I like lab bars and not falling out, personally.
I've been an ACE member since 1986 and follow rules - always have, always will. Do a "few bad apples" really spoil the whole bunch? I've seen people in other coaster clubs doing really dumb - and illegal - things. I don't judge the whole group based on what a couple members have done. ACE definitely has flaws (a web page would be nice, it's 2013!) but so do all the clubs I've ever been a part of. Obviously, the good outweighs the bad (for me).
I've cringed at things coaster enthusiasts have done, not just ACE members. Good thing TPR and ACE have codes of conduct!
The culture of ACE seems to have *definitely* changed since 2000 when I had that experience, and I do judge everyone equally and individually. Having said that, the perception of ACE by many within the management side of parks is only now starting to change from what it was about 10 years ago. I have no issue with anyone joining, but for me the benefits - of which honestly lately there would have been none for me other than the newsletter - do not outweigh the 'getting put in the ACE camp' by those outside the club.
I fully support their intentions of preserving the history of tracked rides, as I think that the industry does a really bad job of tracing their history... which makes sense in some ways. When perhaps the most important founder of the industry says that his park isn't a museum, it's hard for others to treat their parks that way... but, on the flip side, the important advances that were made in the 80s, while often painful today, led to the awesome stuff we now have...
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The only ride that I think of as "intense" without relating that to painful was Shockwave at Great America. It had some painful parts, but the sustained high G forces were crazy. Both of it's sister rides (Great American Scream Machine and Viper) were / are trimmed so they aren't as insane as those first three loops were.
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I think The Boss had some minor re-profiling between 2000 and 2001. In 2000, it was easily one of my favorites. Not since a brand new 1990 Texas Giant had a ride knocked me so silly. The track wasn't rough, it just tried to knock me out a few times down in those valleys between the big drops. Was that your experience? I went back in 2001 and it was still a great ride - but all the bite was gone.
When I first rode it, I expected it to be awesome - perhaps because I had just rode a lot of the "class of 2000" rides including both Legend and Villain (and Son of Beast VERY early on, when it was super smooth... for like three days), and I was surprised by how rough and I guess the word "under-designed" that I felt that the ride was immediately. Maybe I caught it on a bad day, but while I rode each of the first three multiple times, I came off Boss with a headache after my first ride.
Rode it again in 2001 and it was like a whole different ride. Seemed smooth, amazing air, good laterals. Maybe it just doesn't know what it wants to run like any given day...
It's amazing what the psychology of a ride can do. It seems that "bigger is better" really does work for many people. Whatever coasters we like, for whatever reasons ("its bigger/faster," charm, comfort, etc.) it doesn't matter. It would be lame if we all liked the same stuff equally. It works out great for me, as the rides I prefer usually have shorter lines than the bigger ones.WARNING: Long story coming. Skip it if you don't like long stuff.
From what I've seen, those people who are at least mildly scared of heights tend to like the taller / faster rides the most. I'm not going to call that perfect in all cases, but for people that get worked up about going up 200 feet in the air and then hurtling toward the earth, the bigger and better it is, the more of a rush when it is conquered.
I'm not scared of heights at all. I'm cautious, so it isn't like I hop off buildings or anything, but I also know when I'm safe, and when I'm on roller coasters I'm safe. So, going up 200+ feet in a roller coaster isn't something where I personally feel a great sense of 'conquering' anything. I don't get the same rush in situations like that.
What gets me is when a ride truly surprises me, which on big rides where you can see exactly what is coming up, I don't get.
And you're exactly right. I remember the one year I was in ACE was in 2000 because I was hitting enough parks where there was an ACE discount or benefit that I figured why not, we were walked back for the opening of Son of Beast early. It was actually the first day it ran after it's first closure, and it happened to be the day that we were visiting. The wait to open was taking a long time, and we were in the group of ACErs talking. We were mostly keeping to ourselves - I had developed a HUGE distaste over some of them talking about how they would keep their seat harnesses up higher - and then a couple of them started talking with us. They asked the question of what we thought the best ride was.
I tried to change the subject because my favorite ride was the much hated (at the time) Outer Limits: Flight of Fear with over the shoulder harnesses. To be fair, later that day I'd visit Holiday World where both Raven and Legend would pass it, but I really do love Flight of Fear. And enthusiasts hated it. At this point, I had probably rode about 200 coasters, so it wasn't like I didn't have much to base it on... it's just in all my hobbies, I tend to like things that other people don't.
I'll never forget it - the guy that I was talkingn to said that was okay, and that we all needed to like different stuff, or else every park would have the same few rides that everyone liked, and nothing would be different. It was about the only time I felt like it was okay to have that opinion as an ACEr. Last time I would ever be a member, too. I like lab bars and not falling out, personally.
Anyway, that's the thing about rides. We all like them for different reasons, and that is what makes going on different coasters so worth it.
Kennywood Thunderbolt, Cyclops, Legend, SFOG Mind Bender - those really do it for me. Those are the most perfect, full and well-rounded rides I have ever been on (I haven't done the Rocky Mountain coasters yet). While I do enjoy riding Top Thrill Dragster and Millennium Force, I wouldn't go out of my way for them. Most of my favorites I would classify as "variety rides." Heck, I found the best ride at Carowinds to be the Goldrusher.I love Mine Trains and Arrow suspended rides. I also love rides where there is some sort of unique history to them - the ride was changed because of whatever, or didn't open on time because of something, or whatever. When rides that have unique backstories combine with the small twisty layouts I love, they usually end up in my favorites. Then, if I'm lucky enough to have some sort of personal connection - lucky time riding, memorable reason I got there, certain friends with me, etc - they go up even more.
I'd name my favorites as Raven, Flight of Fear (although I actually like it LESS with the lap bars, believe it or not), Great America's Batman (SO much fascinating history!), Mr. Freeze, Kumba, Air, Medusa (Discovery Kingdom) and Zippin Pippin. My favorite ride at Magic Mountain is Ninja.
I'm crazy.
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Those are not necessarily fair comparisons either. It's a no brainer that the larger ride, in the case of two mentioned here, is going to be better than the smaller ride.
At least for me, I find this to rarely be the case. I find Millenium Force dreadfully dull, although to be honest I'm not a huge fan of Raging Bull either. I like the smaller, more compact rides with lots of quick turns that they can't do with the larger ones. I would take Batman any day over every other inverted coaster made, excepting perhaps Montu when it came out before it was horribly braked. In wooden coasters, once you get too big I find them just dull.
Having said that, Cedar Fair has run Cedar Point on the premise that it is a thrill seekers paradise, and so they always need to get the biggest of whatever is the latest and greatest. If you like big things, you love Cedar Point. It's a simple strategy that keeps their turnstyles clicking, and at least for that park is one of the best "country-wide" strategies for a single park that is out there, in my opinion. If you like height and speed, there is no better park in the world for you than Cedar Point.
The Six Flags parks as a chain try to cater to everyone, and in doing so cater to no one group in particular. This may be attributed to the fact they are regional parks (whereas Cedar Point tries to break that mold), or whatever, but they are also very successful at what they do. It is just a different strategy.
Oh, and when Vertical Velocity's back spike was working, I found it FAR superior to Wicked Twister. Without that spike, I find both of the rides to be pretty silly.
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I had ridden it opening year, 2000 (knock you out silly rough) and 2001 (not as rough), but last September it was downright incredible.
Yeah, I didn't ride it last year, but what in the world was up with that? I rode it in 2000 shortly after it came out, and it was amazing... just how poor it rode immediately after it came out. I mean, Son of Beast was WAY smoother.
I went back in 2001 and got talked into going back on it by my group, and it was like a totally different and better ride.
I can't say much of what it has done since then, as I haven't rode it in the times I've been at St Louis, but I can't think of one other time that a ride that debuted so poorly got so much better the following year. Was something major done to it?
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^
I didn't like the fact the park got rid of an excellent entertainment venue for the queue line, and I didn't love the placement, but I too was surprised by how well it fit. The pre-show, although a little too long, was really well done in my opinion, and a little too intense for the family ride that followed. And the story of the ride wasn't as strong as I wished it was (someone once described it as a "Batman themed acid trip with random Batman images popping up everywhere", and I do tend to agree with that)...
But, for a themed coaster ride, and for the price, I can't imagine it being much more than it was.
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I seem to remember seeing a video where he commented that Twisted Twins, at least, would be opening a year after the park, not with it. Figuring on that, and not being ANYTHING NEAR an expert, I would imagine someone like RMC, GCI, or GG could probably get Thunder Run completely refreshed in 3-4 months (it's only 2,850 ft of track). Outside of that, it could all be done in 3 months, it's just a question of whether or not Ed Hart wants to drop the kind of money it would take to get the manpower to do it that quickly.
Twisted Twins might be opening later because Six Flags already deemed them expendable, so if they weren't needed then (and the attendance drop off wasn't that major), maybe they run without them and try to replace them. They are that metal supported wood that seems to age like garbage, and I remember them being horrible last time I rode them. Why not see if you can do without, and then open with something different the following year?
Beyond that, and not claiming myself to be an expert, but knowing some sort of similar workings, if you get a property like this, you're paying for it whether it is open or not. Security, upkeep, if it takes you 12 months to pull all the weeds, you're going to get a lot more weeds, etc. Any business that is growing or re-opening needs to balance those costs (of how much being slower would take) versus the cost of going quicker. While bringing in teams to work 24/7 would be extremely costly and probably stupid, bringing in a decent sized staff, you could get it done pretty darn quickly. I would guess the park would want maybe 4-5 months to ramp up a full time maintenance staff so they are prepared to deal with the ride issues immediately because they are very familiar with it, but beyond that, none of the other stuff that needs to be done (excepting full ride refurbishments / replacements) would need to take place longer than a month or two if they are willing to do it.
My uncle is a painter with a small crew of three other guys. They were hired to paint a 100,000 square foot warehouse top to bottom with paint (walls, ceiling, beams), including being up on manlifts a lot. There was tons of details. The four man crew finished it (working overtime) in under five days.
Walt Disney World Disney's Animal Kingdom Discussion Thread
in Theme Parks, Roller Coasters, & Donkeys!
Posted
Agreed on all accounts, especially Soarin. I honestly don't get what people love about that ride *at all*.
I re-rode the ride a second time at the end of the day specifically to walk the regular queue - it was a walk on, so I didn't get a ton of time, but I'd rank it up there with the best queues of all time, and since it was built for Fastpass it integrates that really well. I'd otherwise say Disneyland's Indiana Jones wins best queue, but you now walk past such a huge part of it due to Fastpass, it's not what it once was.
And I totally agree about the Yeti. Why they invested millions of dollars on him when you literally fly by him is beyond me. A much cheaper, lesser animated Yeti would have been just as effectual as that one.