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goatdan

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Posts posted by goatdan

  1. From what I've heard, Raging Bull's trim on the camelback has been there since it opened in 1999. For me it would be V2's holding brake on the back spike. That added to the excitement and I was sad when they stopped using it, though I understand why they stopped.

     

    Raging Bull's trim has been there since day one and has been used since day one, so I don't think it can be called a neuter so much. There are days that it tugs more than others, but I'd argue that the more it tugs, the better ride you're actually getting...

     

    I'm curious why you think they stopped using the spike on V2. I agree it was FAR better with the hold than without.

     

    As for rides that were altered since they first opened, I really enjoyed Mantis it's debut season, and the trim brake and much harder MCBR I think actually made it a lot rougher - it had a bunch of positive Gs holding you down before, now it rattles you like crazy. The lack of dueling with Dragon's Challenge is really too bad although I get why they did it (stupid people). I'm also not a fan of the new trains at the Matterhorn at all.

  2. 1) Shockwave was the first ride marketed as the tallest ride and fastest ride (admittedly, fastest was only a US claim). Before that point, parks didn't really brag about height and speed. Proof? The record holder for speed until 1988 was the American Eagle across the park.

     

    Proof? You really didn't show any proof.

     

    Kings Island marketed The Beast as the longest, tallest and fastest when it opened. Link to promo info

     

    And I'm sure that wasn't even the first time a park marketed a coaster in that manner.

     

    As I've said, you can and probably should dismiss everything as I'm saying because I will not offer any proof, so I'm probably just someone spouting off random stuff... I'll point out though that the link that you had said that the beast was actually the FIRST time that a park marketed a singular ride (from the article):

     

    "What resulted was another movement in how park operations: the first marketing campaign for a roller coaster."

     

    Which is worth pointing out as another interesting tidbit that I have heard, but the ads before the time of the Beast are so rare to come across it's a hard claim to substantiate, which is why I didn't point to that one too...

     

    But to be fair, you're right - the one commercial disproves that as I had only ever seen the original Beast promo where they just mention that it takes you "higher than any other coaster." I guess one would have to check the coaster that took over the speed record from the Beast and see how it was marketed if it mostly holds up as a claim.

     

    ^^In that satellite image, it looks like the Scorchers train is only about halfway up the lift. The safety points (where the lift will stop by computers trigger) is normally at the top of the lift, as seen in that Montu image. The GASM stops at the top if the ready brake is not clear, same with the Ninja. It looks as if they might have actually been testing the Scorcher at the moment this image was recorded.

     

    Yeah, I'd suggest something else is going on there. If not, that is about the silliest place that they would stop a train, the biggest thing being that the lift motors work the hardest when the train is the furthest away, which is the bottom of the lift like that. You can hear it if you stand near a B&M motor that the closer it gets to the top, the quieter it "sounds" like the motor is working.

     

    I don't quite get the physics of it, but I know that in at least one other stand up ride, the rule is that you never stop the train on the lift until it is 3/4ths of the way up for that exact issue.

     

    Thrillrider is also correct. I had to call my supervisor whenever I needed the second train, ofcourse only if the other train was in the transfer shed. The supervisors would then call maintenance who would eventually show up in their white trucks. Lol. But I remember reading somewhere that TTD operators are the ones who add the trains. Maybe Cedar Fair has more faith/trust in their employees. Idk but its always interested me how different parks go about their daily operation.

     

    It changes ride to ride and chain to chain. I have opinions on what I think is the best, but they don't matter really

     

    And as stated before We start with as many units possible then go down as the day go on. (except late Aug when staffing is at minimal b/c of employees going back to school)

     

    This is also completely park to park and in some cases ride to ride. Although again it really doesn't matter, I'm of the opinion that if you are stopping people in line to do something, you should be adding capacity to the ride not taking it away - but I'm also of the opinion that if there is no staffing difference with units, you run with the max units (IE you never run with one unit when you can run two for the same amount of staff, even if there are minimum crowd levels). There are LOTS of theories in every chain and park about what is the best for real, and there are GREAT arguments on the other side too, but it has nothing to do with manufacturers or anything like that.

     

    An argument can be made about which parks are the most efficient with their maintenance programs and that is really how the unit cycles should be handled, but that's not really a "fact" thing.

     

    Since it is a fact thread, one last one for now...

     

    - Of the Great America parks, there were three designed although only two opened. Because they intended to use the exact same plans, all of the original buildings in the Six Flags park are built to the same earthquake code as the ones in California, even though they didn't have to be.

  3. The wheels that you are talking about are only used for the S.A.M. (swinging arm mechanism) that folds the train up into the flying position at the time of dispatch. Thats the I-Beam that you are speaking of.

     

    Maybe you'd know this then - do flyers rest on their running wheels, or do they have some sort of hidden way that they rest off them? I can't imagine that B&M would have figured out something for everything else but flyers, but I'll also freely admit that I don't really care for any flyers that I've been on, and I've paid a lot less attention to their details because of it. Which perhaps is ironic, because I was in quite a good position to witness a lot of that history.

     

    Two more random fun fact for the night:

     

    The most influential roller coaster that doesn't get enough credit for it was definitely Six Flags Great America's Shockwave. While the quality of the ride itself is (was) highly questionable...

     

    1) Shockwave was the first ride marketed as the tallest ride and fastest ride (admittedly, fastest was only a US claim). Before that point, parks didn't really brag about height and speed. Proof? The record holder for speed until 1988 was the American Eagle across the park. Cedar Point supposedly saw how great the tallest and fastest marketing was playing to the public, and at that time extended Magnum to be over 200 feet tall. Magnum is often given the title of touching off the "height wars" because it was 200 feet, but it wouldn't have been that if not for Shockwave.

     

    2) When B&M was starting out, they looked at the steel work being done by Clermont Steel Fabrication for Shockwave, and was impressed enough that they hired them as their US fabrication plant, which Clermont remains to this day. (From what I understand, they looked at the completed Vortex, but watched the actual fabrication method of Shockwave.)

     

    Without Shockwave, would Magnum have been what it was, and without the right manufacturing plant, could B&M rides have been good enough to make them the gold standard in the 90s?

     

    And, one more fact. And sorry, no proof... so feel free to dismiss this one:

     

    There was no such thing as the "Six Flags Ride Rotation Program" beyond it being something that some ACErs came up with to explain the ride movements within the chain.

  4. If the GP always preferred "forceless" rides to forceful rides, how do you explain the popularity of Intamin rides? Surely everyone in line isn't an enthusiast, so I think it's unfair to say that the GP prefers forceless rides.

     

    Like I said, look up what Disney changed with their rides where they could simply change the programming up to change their forces above, and I think you'll find the *real* key over why *parks* prefer so-called 'forceless" rides.

     

    It's very similar to the reasons that Kings Island has the space to put Banshee to begin with.

  5. I have noticed those extra wheels before, I assumed that they were there to bear the weight of the train if the running wheels were removed. Thanks for the correction! I hope you continue to post in this thread, you have awesome info!

     

    I try. I don't know what else I can fully say, but I'll do some thinking on it. Glad someone is finding it interesting.

     

    Maybe this is a dumb question, but what is that I-beam in the station of Batman for? I'm referring to the one that has all of the row numbers on it.

     

    It's not an I-beam, but it's similar. Behind it is the moving part that controls the harnesses for the ride - Look in that Magic Mountain picture *directly* below the number four and you'll see a device that looks sort of like a metal box with a piece sticking out of it at a 45 degree angle to the back of the train. These get pushed down by a device in the station to unlock the harnesses on the ride.

     

    When a person locks the harnesses on the ride, this piece snaps back up and the harnesses all start their ability to click down into position.

     

    It's a little more complex than that, but really that beam is just there to cover up the moving part and to for looks.

     

    Also, as far as the flyers go, I assume the storage wheels are the ones that fit into the station I-beam that moves to switch the train in between the load and flying position?

     

    Being honest here, I'm not 100% certain on how those are stored. I believe that is correct, but I have never fully seen one in action. I do know they don't stay on their weight bearing wheels though, you can go through rcdb.com to see some really nice pics of Tatsu in storage (pics 51ish, I think) and you can only really tell that it's in storage because the wheels at the bottom are about an inch off the track. I believe that part of the weight is supported also by the outside wheel, but that only accounts for one of the two wheels that would be needed to keep the weight bearing wheels off the track.

     

    I'm relatively certain it works the exact same way, but I'm not positive. Sorry I couldn't be more conclusive there

  6. As for your question of any Batman clones being closed down, that's sort of silly as ridership has to do with capacity, and they are still running at capacity as are most major rides at Six Flags parks, however if you did a line wait study of the average wait to go on those particular rides, they are definitely not as popular as they once were. From what I have seen, the "forceless" B&M rides have had a much less measured drop off so far. We'll see if that stays, but it is interesting none the less and something that parks do examine.

     

    I don't really think this is a fair argument to make, though. In general, most Batman clones reside in parks that have since built multiple signature attractions, so these coasters aren't main draws anymore. However, the larger, less forceful inverts, like Silver Bullet, Afterburn, Flight Deck, ect. are still some of the signature attractions in their respective parks, and therefore have retained more of their ridership.

     

    Heh, I'll actually fully agree that this isn't exactly a fair argument to make, but stating that "declining ridership" would be the reason that a park might want to go with a less intense experience than a more intense one isn't exactly the argument that I would have put forth. I was just looking at a way that you might try to defeat that argument.

     

    I'd suggest looking at the opening of Countdown to Extinction at Animal Kingdom or the Indiana Jones Adventure at Disneyland to perhaps discover a more realistic reason that parks don't want the rides to be super intense. In both of those cases, the parks opened with the rides VERY intense, but were able to program the rides operation differently to bring the intensity down. In particular, Indiana Jones was been insanely popular since day 1... why would Disney want to bring down the intensity of the ride, and did it have any noticeable impact on the ridership?

     

    Then, correlate that information with the time frame that B&M started building rides with less and less insane forces, and...

     

    I think you'll come up with a much better line of reasoning behind why B&M started cutting back on the insane forces, and why the parks would want that.

     

    (by the way, not that I mind the insane forces myself. I'll take a Batman clone over any B&M built since 2000 any day. But I totally understand why parks wouldn't.)

  7. I won't start a big argument with you on this cause you seem pretty convinced of it. I'm just drawing from my experience with Shwarzkopfs at parks I've worked at. And I know that SFDK spent just as much on the Zonga pad than they would have for footers. It's really not that big a difference.

     

    It's okay. I always claim to know nothing, as I have no experience to speak of, so I really don't have much to back it up with.

     

    I will say that if you do a quick search on making a parking structure versus a surface lot, you'll find the difference in cost per stall to be something like $5,000 for surface versus $30,000 for the structure, and that is from an estimate that assumes "minimal groundwork." When you're talking roller coaster, you're talking a lot more ground work being done, but using the same idea you'd still have a significant additional cost.

     

    But hey, if you know that Discover Kingdom spent the same making that pad 11 or so years ago as on footers, then you're probably right and footers are probably way cheap. I don't actually know

  8. - Drachen Fire was a very unique Arrow coaster, with one of the most unique parts being the ride structure itself looks like nothing that Arrow ever used before or since, specifically the lift hill.

     

    Thats because Drachen Fire was originally going to be a B&M but since B&M was a small company and already had Kumba and Batman The Ride clones to deal with that year, they scrapped Drachen Fire and the project was passed on to Arrow.

     

    Your assertion still doesn't explain why Arrow utilized a 100% different support structure for the ride, even if that was true. But no, B&M didn't have either Kumba or Batman clones to deal with that year.

     

    I found a good picture explaining how inverts are taken off the track, credit to whomever took this (Google Image Searched it) of Banshee:

     

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-d1X602G7lxg/Ulx03fngoCI/AAAAAAAAJl0/iFJW8WsYQSM/s1600/NPNBanshee+10-11+%25288%2529.JPG

     

    Look where the transfer track is and follow it back, and you'll see the track itself get smaller where the running wheels stop being what is the main thing holding the train on the track. Then, look at the bottom of the platform nearest the track and you'll see how there is a lip on either side that comes out toward where the trains would be. That is where the train's storage wheels will hold the ride so that it stays off it's track at night.

  9. I don't see SeaWorld, any zoo, Circus, or animal performance for that matter, being around in 50 years, and here's why. It can often be more damning for someone to hit a dog than to hit a person, or for cattle to be treated, well, like cattle.

     

    I do. And I think that it is ridiculously important that these sorts of things stay around.

     

    I'll preface this by saying that I've only been to Sea World once, it was Sea World Ohio back in the day, and I only vaguely remember it.

     

    But things like Sea World, Zoos, Circuses and so on are where we help to introduce animals to the world. I have a three year old son. He regularly claims that he wants to be an elephant keeper when he grows up (and a baseball player too). He has a cheetah poster in his room, and he loves going to visit them at the zoo. He talks about giraffes regularly. He can tell you the difference between a monkey and an ape. It's amazing.

     

    He also wants to go visit these animals in the wild. He asks questions about what types of places these animals live.

     

    He wouldn't give a flying fart about the wild animals if he couldn't see the animals at the zoo. There is a HUGE difference between seeing them on the TV and seeing them in real life. And maybe (probably) he won't be an elephant keeper when he grows up... but maybe he'll save money to go visit Africa to see real wild elephants, helping to save those animals with his tourism dollars. Or, maybe he'll donate $5 toward saving the rain forest in the future because he cares about the apes *like the ones he sees at the zoo* so their well being becomes something that he is personally invested in.

     

    In a day and age where so much of our lives is becoming more and more digital, finding the real things that we can connect to is insanely important, and these animals are truly ambassadors for their species. If it isn't for them, who knows what happens to them.

     

    Without Sea World and institutions like Sea World, the world would have a lot less money for the saving of these creatures, and a lot less people who care if we do or not. While making sure that they are treated as humanely as possible will continue to be a challenge, it will be done because those people really truly do care about these creatures.

  10. I'm a little curious....how does B&M lift their Inverts and Flyers off the tracks while in storage?

    They don't...they're the exception to the rule since there's no way for them to hang without being on their wheels. Here's the storage tracks of Crystal Wings at Happy Valley, which is a Superman Ultimate Flight clone.

     

    Actually, you're wrong. If you look at that picture more carefully, you can see that the track transitions from the tubular design to a box design because the wheels are not actually what the train is resting on. There is no exception to the rule.

     

    You can see it clearly in this picture from wikipedia of the Magic Mountain Batman train:

     

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/Batman_station.JPG/800px-Batman_station.JPG

     

    Look directly below the number four and a little to the right. You'll see relatively large black wheels at the front and back of each train part. That's what the trains rest on when they are put to bed, not their running wheels in any way - those go onto a metal bar just like in the picture of Crystal Wings that does absolutely no weight bearing.

     

    If the original question was how are the trains removed from the track for refurbishment, it's basically the same for all B&M rides where there is a rolling lift on an I-beam that removes one car at the time into a position that it can be lowered down (nothing below it).

     

    Oh, and one other random fact for now...

     

    A lot of people say that parks have five and ten year plans, and that simply isn't true. Especially in the past 10 years where a lot of parks have experienced financial difficulties, as well as the fact that the parks want to respond as best as possible to the market conditions, most parks do not have more than a year planned out, and those plans are often tentative. I know of one park which had pieces of a roller coaster arrive on site and the person in charge of the park had to call the corporate offices to ask what they were for, when he was told that they were in fact for a ride that was being built next year.

     

    This isn't always the case, and often parks have some sort of solid idea about what they will get, but it usually isn't much beyond, "Thrill ride" or whatever.

  11. Here are some things that I can share...

     

    - All B&M coasters remove all trains from the track at night, and the transfer track that they sit on does not have the trains resting on the wheels they ride on. This is to eliminate the wheels from getting "flat spots" from sitting in a certain position and ensuring the riders get a smoother ride.

     

    - There was a Mr. Freeze ride planned for Great America originally. It made it so far that the park announced plans for it, but was cancelled after all of the Premier LIM issues that the first installations had.

     

    - Someone pointed out some changes between Raptor and it's "clone." In fact, none of the B&M rides are exact clones, as B&M does slight tweaks to each design that are usually imperceptible.

     

    - The original Batman and Raptor are the only two B&M inverts to not have stairs on both sides of the lift hill. Batman is unique because it's lift catwalk terminates with a platform that you can just walk right off. Cedar Point's terminates into a three sided cage. You can see the lack of cage on the TPR video of Batman. It's really quite weird.

     

    - The Arrow Mega Loopers were built to run four trains, and their transfer tracks were made to accommodate this. The lift was blocked into two sections.

     

    - Most (if not all) B&M rides are now blocked so that you can dispatch the next train the moment the first one leaves the lift, and the lift will adjust to "crawl" speed until the prior train clears in front of it.

     

    - For I don't know how long, but not long, Outer Limits: Flight of Fear at King's Island (and maybe KD too, not sure) would taunt the riders before the launch. The one that I remember was the ride saying, "Intelligent life on Earth? Then why are you strapped into the harnesses?" followed immediately by the launch. From what I understand, this didn't last long AT ALL.

     

    - Adventure Express at King's Island was built with a bunch of theming that you rolled past too quickly to really see the effects in action. From what I was told, the team that themed it was told that the train would be moving slower and riders would be able to see things better than they are.

     

    - Weight dropped Schwarzkopf shuttle loops (all four of them) could on occasion hit the forward top track bumper. I know that at least one park called this, "Ringing the bell."

     

    - Drachen Fire was a very unique Arrow coaster, with one of the most unique parts being the ride structure itself looks like nothing that Arrow ever used before or since, specifically the lift hill.

     

    - Heath Ledger was originally supposed to be involved with the filming for the Dark Knight Coaster's intro.

     

    Here are some not roller coaster fun facts that I know...

     

    - Rumor is that the room in the Indiana Jones Adventure that is pitch black and your jeep "stalls" in it for a second before progressing on was supposed to be themed, but Disney ran out of money in theming and nixed that room. Cast members jokingly call it the "million dollar room" because of this.

     

    - Indy opened with an effect where a high speed freezer on the roof flash-froze large blocks of ice, and when the Eye of Mara would "strike" the ceiling a chunk of it (the ice, playing the role of the ceiling) would fall. This effect was incredibly expensive and broke down a lot so it is no longer there, although the machinery for it is still on the roof and can be seen in aerial photos.

     

    - The boat ride at Animal Kingdom at one point had a "fire breathing dragon" in it that foreshadowed the 'upcoming' mythical animals section. The rocks are still there, but the boat ride isn't.

     

    - Animal Kingdom was made with some trails off the regular path where guests were supposed to randomly walk, including one that had rocks placed in a stream that you could walk over. They have since been covered up.

     

    - Epcot used to have a show in the Wonders of Life pavilion called the Making of Me that included you getting to "see" Martin Short being born, as well as an animated Sperm race.

     

    - Part of the reason that Sea World in Ohio decided to close was because they had a non-compete agreement with Geauga Lake not to add any rides. That, and the incredibly short operating season made it hard for Sea World Ohio to keep up.

     

    - Sea World Ohio and Geauga Lake were located in two different townships, which was an interesting challenge when the parks combined as both had different laws.

     

    - I have to double check this one, but I believe that Cedar Point originally approached George Millay of Sea World about adding a Sea World near them. Then Geauga Lake approached him. He felt that both were shady, and it wasn't until years later and a management switch that they started building Sea World there. (This can be read in his book, which I don't have handy at the moment to double check.)

     

    - George Millay founded both Sea World (the first marine park) and Wet N Wild (the first major water park). He also had a large role in the founding of Magic Mountain.

     

    - Harrison "Buzz" Price figured out not just the location for Disneyland, but also the location of many different parks, including I believe the Busch parks, the Marriot parks (all three of them, the third one that never opened), many Six Flags parks and a bunch more. (Again, I don't have his book handy to double check, but it was extremely surprising to see how many parks he placed.)

     

    - Both Six Flags Over parks (Georgia / Texas) are not owned by Six Flags, but just managed by them. The management group for at least one of these parks has negotiated with operators who were NOT Six Flags to manage the park, as they were not happy with how Six Flags was handling things.

     

    *whew*, that's enough for now

  12. I'm having trouble believing that all these B&Ms have all these flaws that cause their restraints to constantly open. Like what goatdan said on the last page, this just isn't going to happen.

     

    I can say with certainty that it isn't. I don't want to sound negative, but anyone who is saying that a harness opened up the entire way has one of the following things going on:

     

    1) Wants to be dramatic about it and describe a situation that didn't happen to "one up" other people.

     

    - or -

     

    2) Had a "one click" normal operating issue like described earlier and imagined / remembered it differently.

     

    All B&Ms do have a tendency to lose a "click" if you didn't get it fully down, but they are never going to fully open. In fact the clicking you hear are two seperate systems that lock in a staggard pattern. Each have 8 locking points, so if you were able to get say, 5 clicks on each side, then 10 locking points would have to fail (at the exact same moment) for the restraint to open. It's just not something that happens. And again, like goatdan had said, even if all those locks failed at once, you have the seatbelt as you final safety back up... though I doubt one has EVER been needed.

     

    And (as I'm sure you're well aware), when those locking mechanisms work if they do in fact fail, it isn't that they unlock - they actually keep you locked permanently in your seat. I once had someone asking me about how often the locks failed and opened, and I explained that it was designed that if they failed they stayed shut, and they said it couldn't be done. I told them to walk into an arcade and look for an out of order Skee Ball, and you'll notice that it *stops dispensing balls*.

     

    If B&Ms had serious issues with restraints failing, then the early stand ups would have had deaths on them, as they operated for a number of years without seat belts.

  13. I think it was also around this time period--maybe a little later--when Thunder Run's trains literally looked (and felt) like they were falling apart. Multiple rows were blocked off for broken lab bars, grab bars were missing all over the train, the seatbelts looked like they could snap with a little tug, and the lap bars that did "work" were wobbly and missing pieces of foam.

     

    Ah, those were the days...

     

    Yes, it was. We could barely believe how bad it looked.

     

    Same trip, in line for T2 because my friend had never rode a hang and bang and thought it would be great, we waited 10 minutes to ride while the ride operators flirted with some girls (AFTER we were strapped in the train, with single train operation) and then watched as the ride lead walked in front of the train where I sat, gave the thumbs up sign, rode the floor down and then jumped out of our way with a, "Wheeee!!!" right before we hit him. It was amazing.

     

    I talked with a friend who worked at another park about a week later and related about 10 different things I had seen, and they were appalled. All of them should have been offenses that warranted immediate termination... and this was someone also working for Six Flags at the time. We saw all of this in a matter of less than 2 total hours from gate to exit, while riding four rides (Chang twice). That visit and Six Flags Ohio rival each other for some of the worst experiences I've ever had at theme parks.

  14. Swaying of a wooden roller coaster's structure is normal. In fact the ride is designed to sway, if it didn't sway it would cause a structure failure. The dryer the wood gets the more it will sway. I imagine that video was taken when the Rattler was pretty dried out.

     

    Yup. If you watch any wooden coaster carefully, you'll see it. I think it's the most pronounced if you are in line for Legend when it comes around the corner heading into the breaks, you are standing next to the structure and you can see it shift 6 or so inches, but that is normal and expected.

     

    Nothing special from me apart from one of my rides on Raptor (CP) when, during the lift, my restraint suddenly unlocked about one click without me even touching it. I just locked it back where it was and I didn't worry that much as I knew it was extremely unlikely it would unlock more than that and, even if it did, Raptor is a ride where you could survive without restraints as it's all positive Gs, so...

     

    While most of the stuff that people are saying on here I simply don't believe, this is actually normal behavior for the early inverts, and it's totally safe. What happens is the shoulder harnesses don't quite make it to the next "click" even though they are in their position, and when the ride starts moving, the vibrations allow it to snap back into the click one less than that. It generally only happens when you have the harness in a very tight position.

     

    Regardless, B&M rides are designed so that if something somehow magically malfunctioned and the harness totally opened, if you still have the seatbelt buckled it will stay just fine.

     

    I'm personally surprised that B&M isn't using the flying coaster type restraings with their wing riders, as that eliminates the seat belt as a secondary safety measure altogether and removes the ability to defeat the safety system from the guest hands.

     

    The only weird thing that I had happen to me is once when I and a friend were on one of the small metal mice coasters at Indiana Beach (I think it was), the operator was required to put the lap bar down, it was somehow controlled on the outside of the car, and he would do this as he gave the car a push toward the lift. For whatever reason, when we got there he was talking to someone else or something and he sent us without lowering the lap bar. The op at the end that lifted the lap bars told us that we couldn't ride again because of it, like it was something that we wanted to have done.

     

    I'm someone who is all about using the safety equipment as designed, an never showing off that I'm adding to the danger by putting up a leg or something stupid, so it was particularly memorable and not a fun ride at all.

  15. This is, unfortunately, the difficulty with animal parks. Animal rights activists usually go over the top to make claims against them, and every so often they get traction in the media, and then the park has to defend itself. While the idea of animals in captivity is never the nicest thing, those animals do a LOT of good for other animals. How many people in the world would know much about or care about orcas if it wasn't for Sea World publicizing them? The protections that the animals outside the parks gain are often directly correlated to people seeing the animals in the park.

     

    I guarantee Sea World was ready for this, I guarantee that most if not all of the people at Sea World truly do care about the animals, how they are, and what they do. I have known people involved with another animal park, and if the animal was sick they would be at the park 24 / 7 caring for that animal.

     

    I want to see Blackfish just because I am interested in the 'behind the scenes' stuff that happens at theme parks, although I would expect like any other documentary that you watch to be viewing an extremely slanted piece that is out to tell the story they wanted to tell.

  16. ^^ Wow I did not realize that until you pointed it out! I do wish they would just remove it all together. That would be a nice chunk of land for some expansion, when it sits unused for the majority of the time as it is. Also, Goliath could have been a little bit longer had they removed it for this project.

     

    I'm not going to debate the validity of keeping the amphitheater or not, but Goliath could have been a bit longer without taking up any more space too and just running near / through the structure again.

  17. The park was never owned by Six Flags during the "Time Warner Era" from 1991-1997/1998

    Premier acquired the property in September 1997 (When they were 2 separate companies) and existed until about 2006

    Shapiro operated the company from 2006 to about February 4, 2010

     

    Aw crap, you're right! I always think that it came under the Time Warner banner because Chang for the longest time had the Time Warner logo on it, but it was acquired by Premier.

     

    I know quite a bit about Shapiro's reign, and as part of that a lot of what was planned for 2006 was already heading into parks that year. The first year that Shapiro really started to do what he wanted to with the company and his regime was picking rides was 2007.

  18. In Six Flag's era, the water park received Tornado (sitting in Quake's former location), Deluge (part of it taking up Chaos' previous space), Mega Wedgie, and a small water playground. Only Deluge had the biggest overall impact on the park, with Tornado a close second when it first opened.

     

    I sort of parse out the "eras" of Kentucky Kingdom's Six Flags ownership into three, the Time Warner era, the Premier era and the Shapiro era. All did different things with the park - Time Warner seemed to have little idea what to do with it once they got it, Premier seemed to figure that they would just let the poor thing degrade and toss in a few things here and there, and Shapiro's management team was the one that seemed to decide to try to bring the actual experience up while adding small stuff. The Shapiro era is also the one that ultimately walked away from the park, and I only give them credit for Deluge and Mega Wedgie, and I had totally forgot about the latter when I was typing.

     

    None of the ride removals were done during the Shapiro era actually, other than I think one kiddie ride, Superman and Chang. I think that Shapiro put the park on the right path, but the incident on Superman really changed the outlook of the park, and the silly rules from the fair board didn't help at all.

     

    You're right in that the park's last years were much cleaner than its earlier times. I noticed it especially in the foliage and how there seemed to be a better amount of trees and bushes here and there. The park felt friendlier.

     

    I TOTALLY agree, and this is something that so many people don't recognize when parks do it because what do you write down in a history wiki: 2005 - The plants look nice and vibrant suddenly. It's a huge thing though - if the park doesn't feel nice to be there, why would you bother being there?

     

    My early Kentucky Kingdom experience will always be defined by this experience - In 2002 I think it was, my friends and I were passing through town on our way to Holiday World. We decided to stop in and ride Chang and Thunder Run, but then wanted to get back on the road. At about 10:30am, we started up the walkway between the park halfs, and a security guard yelled at us and said that, "Nobody goes back there!" There was NO signage up, just this guard posted there rudely telling us not to go back. When I asked if that part of the park would open, the answer was, "Yup." I had to ask again when, and he said that it opened at 11am like it always does, and then turned and walked back like we were bothering him and he had to get back to looking sort of important in front of the walkway.

     

    None of this was mentioned anywhere that we had seen. I actually have a picture of my friends standing in front of the grumpy security guard at the park waiting for them to let us across because it was so surreal. We decided to wait it out, we ran back and quickly rode Chang and Thunder Run (with nearly equally rude, uncaring employees) and then we left with us all saying that we never needed to go back.

     

    Building Greezed Lightning, which I really, really wanted to ride (never got on a weight shuttle loop...) was tempting, but it didn't do it. Sadly, when I was at the park last, I only got to ride one ride and it was Chang... but the entire experience was so good I started agitating to my friends that we should actually make time to head back there sometime.

     

    (This was supposed to be a reply to the Chaos still existing that was pictured above... I lost the quote... Sorry.)

     

    Whoa! How are they managing that? The ride was removed due to structural issues, how did this one get away with not needing to be removed?

  19. ^ The cost difference is actually pretty minimal. Schwarzkopf coasters are all pretty similar in regards to operating systems and ride components, whether they be a permenant or traveling. The only difference is whether you pour concrete footers, or a concrete slab to put the ride on top of. Really, the portable rides built at permenant parks require more concrete than one with footers might.

     

    There is a huge difference between a flat concrete patch and structural concrete that needs to be dug into the earth in precise locations and filled out with rebar.

  20. I once had a strange set of circumstances happen and...

     

    About 10 years ago now, I spent my favorite night ever in a park. It was January, and it had snowed a bunch earlier that day. The park was closed and had been for a few months, and wouldn't open for a few more. I got to ride along as a friend slowly drove (more like idled) through the midways, and he basically toured me throughout the entire thing. We were the ONLY two people out in the park.

     

    There was snow everywhere. All the park's lights were on. It was beautiful.

  21. ^It was mostly TPR for a while...then it got into 4chan, 9gag, Reddit's probably screwing around with it too...

     

    It started with us, and then the rest of the internet found out.

     

    I just love the fact that I go there, it loads for a while, and then immediately starts begging me to save the Big Dipper.

     

    I mean, it's Christmas. Why not do something selfless and save the Big Dipper!

  22. ^^ When I participated in the travel channel film shoot at SFFT we had to marathon Goliath (the parks Batman Clone) and it was the only ride where we had to take multiple breaks. People were getting nauseous and getting headaches and were sprawled out on the station floor trying to recover. In the end only about 20 of us made it all the way through on that particular coaster shoot. The clones are pretty forceful, I enjoy them. I usually am only able to ride a couple of times, then I'll come back.

     

    Haha! I know people that were on a coaster shoot where the park had hired four models to sit in the front of the ride for pictures and then filled up the rest of the train with ride operators, and after about five times around the course the models started getting sick. Because the park was paying for them, and apparently this was pre-arranged, they would receive barf bags in the station, puke, and then immediately go out for another ride. None of the ride operators puked, but were poking fun of the models throughout the entire thing.

     

    Whatever the park paid those models, it was NOT enough.

  23. I'm just wondering as the demise of the Tidal Wave/Greezed Lightnings here in the US seem so chock full of "well, they were well beyond their intended lifespan and would have taken too much money to refurb".

     

    VERY cool looking ride, and very awesome that they're giving it new life.

     

    I'm WAY late on this, but...

     

    Tidal Wave / Greezed Lightning -> You had to put in footers.

    Bullet -> Portable ride.

     

    The cost difference right there is TONS, not even including any ride system work which may or may not have needed to be done. This is a great, high capacity thrill coaster that they could get and install cheaply, and if the time comes in the future where they decide to sell it, they can pack it back up and it retains almost full value.

     

    I've always been fascinated by this one - can someone explain how it works? Here's how I see it - The wheels push you forward at first to get the maximum distance to power you backwards, you go up the spike backwards and then the wheels power you forward (??) so you get both gravity and a 'push' too? Is that correct?

     

    Seems awesome. This seriously makes me want to talk my wife into going to Mexico sometime.

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