goatdan

I don't usually consider a dive loop a high G element.

Ride capacity actually has VERY little to do with the number of trains run on a ride. To put it into perspective, Tidal Wave managed a theoretical capacity of 1,300, and back in those days the theoretical ride capacities were actually achievable, which isn't generally the case today. The ride isn't built. No one has any idea if it will be more or less popular than Bull. On top of that, it depends on how you define popularity - is popularity the number of people who ride a ride on a day, the amount of time that people are willing to wait to ride the ride, or something else entirely? As for Six Flags and capacity, you just never know what will happen. I understand it's apples and oranges, but Deja Vu which was built after Raging Bull had a real world capacity of like 300 / hour, so is it possible that they build a ride with low capacity? Absolutely.

It was VERY humid, at least in the morning when I rode. It had just stopped drizzling, there was still water dripping on you with some of the tunnels, and I was told by the tram operator that they got over an inch of rain during a morning rainstorm. It was sort of cool, I believe peaking in the upper 70s, but nothing about the ride seemed that horribly rough to me. I rode the Beast two days earlier, and it was far rougher than Voyage. I don't know if I caught it on a good day or what, but I have a low tolerance for painful rides, and if the line hadn't been so long I would have gladly rode it another five or six times.

If you're asking me specifically, honestly I'd be lying if I said that I was that excited over it. I personally get excited over riding stupid crap generally, and not decent stuff. Without going to ultra nerdy, I've said before I don't fit into a real "slot" with theme parks because I am fascinated with how they work and what goes right and wrong then I am with actually riding stuff, so if this thing is added and decent, it isn't as interesting to me as something that goes wrong. I just went to King's Island and Holiday World for the first time in 10 years, and while I can honestly say that my favorite two wooden coasters and favorite steel coaster was on the trip, I was most excited to ride Firehawk and watch it operate, which was the worst ride experience on the trip. I'm wacky. By all means, you should be excited

No, they are actually keeping Z-Force's station. Seriously, that thing has more lives than a cat. As for those of you wondering about the queue, I would practically be willing to put money on it being the same queue. Why would they destroy the queue to remake it? On top of that, there are other reasons to keep the old one. Combining the two pieces together (the height thing and the layout thing), you have a dive loop in the middle, and a zero G roll near the end.

False, that title belongs to Thunderation at Silver Dollar City. It's like Adventure Express with an actual drop after the lift hill. Noted. It's on the list as a possible next year visit, however one of the things that I find totally charming is the HUGE build up for the end of the ride with Adventure Express. NOW YOU WILL PAY! (Get off the ride!)

And Deja Vu is apparently rising from the grave! I also enjoyed knowing from video 3 that their park president handles all employee discipline issues.

The dip was originally there to make sure that the train disengaged the lift chain at the same speed as the chain was going to limit wear and tear on the chain. I don't fully know the specifics, but essentially they figured out how to disengage the trains from the lift without there being any additional wear and tear on the system, so the dip was eliminated. Parks wouldn't want them re-added as they are not a thrilling element and just based on their location so far above the ground, they would be a decently pricy one too. ...and thanks everyone for the tips on KI! I didn't need Fast Lane and was able to ride everything, including multiple rides multiple times. Some quick thoughts... Firehawk - The only thing that stands out from this was how impossibly loud and long the lift was. That part made me like it the least of any flyer I've been on by far. Flight of Fear - Why do they only run two trains on this thing? Holy heck it loaded slow because of that. I feel like 10ish years ago when I was last there, it ran three with the lap bars... Long wait, I still really, really love this ride. Backlot - The first triple upward helix made both me and my buddy start feeling ill. After that, we enjoyed the rest of the ride quite a bit. I couldn't believe that the fire effects were working. The ending was surprisingly fun. Diamondback - Very okay. I expected to like this one more, and while it was fun, I didn't love it. Cool, and definitely fills a gap the park needed. Adventure Express - Still the best non-Disney mine train, even though it seemed that only the final effect was actually working. Flight Deck - Worst name for a coaster at the park, awesome ride. Invertigo - I have no idea why I rode this. It made me feel sick for a while afterward and I skipped Vortex and Racer because of it. I never need to ride one of these again. Flying Ace - Never rode a kiddie invert before. It had traditional Vekoma bangy-ness and I was wholly unimpressed. Woodstock Express - I don't really fit, but this was my first ever roller coaster (or so I was recently told) and I rode it with my dad who was also on the trip, so that made it fun or nostalgic or something. Beast - The first half of this ride I really like. After that, I wish the second half didn't exist. It rode fine, but I felt the same about it. I also rode Boo Blasters, which was fun but I don't get why they don't do the laser thing that Disney does with these - I had NO idea where I was shooting, and there was at least a minute where all the targets were on the other side and I hit nothing, again with no idea where I was aiming. I had the same issue with the Turkey ride at Holiday World. Fun, but not something I cared to reride. A pointer to know where I was shooting would have changed that. The train was also interesting. The park looked immaculate, and then you get on the train and chug next to the train building where the door is falling off and the building looks like it's going to fall over, and the fort that looks like it's overgrown and falling apart, and there are like tables or whatnot that look like garbage... my buddy who I was with pointed out how odd it was that everything was so good looking in the park and then not just did they leave all this stuff not so good looking along the back, but that they actually pointed them out on the tour! (Hey, look to your right and SEE the train building!) Strange. Overall, great day at the park. Banshee will be a great addition to the park, and I actually might just make it back next year to ride it!

The time I went to Mt Olympus, ops were so ghetto I've never been back. It included the ops once sitting and telling us to check our own harnesses, and to raise our hand if we thought there was a problem... Then after about 10 seconds dispatching while checking NOTHING. Another time, we came in and they left the train locked, chatted for a second and started sending it out without changing people with a line. Add the sharpied "must be 18 to ride here" on the back of the train, and it was amazing... However, the creme De la creme (or opposite of that) is a park I can't believe no one mentioned yet - Fun Spot in Indiana. Their claim to fame was they had an Arrow shuttle loop that got stuck upside down. Shortly after hearing that, and afraid I'd miss out riding one, some friends and I went there. They made the Olympus ops look godly. My favorite was that after the Arrow looper launched, they would have you recheck your own harness on the other side, like they expected it could just not be locked. They also has the most pitiful zoo, I clearly remember seeing a bunch of tigers and monkeys in corn silos with basically nothing else. It was so sad. They closed a few months later. Good riddance. The Arrow looper wasn't worth it.

I was there this past Saturday. I was hoping the Timberliners might go live, so I checked Friday night to see if there was any word on them, and found the word they were removed. Missed the whole debate. I try to avoid information about rides that I haven't been on as much as possible, and other then knowing that the Voyage was there, I had not watched any footage or really even looked at many pictures of it. I knew it's reputation for being somewhat rough, and I also knew visiting it at the end of the season would probably amplify that. I was even more concerned when I saw the steel structure, as I can't think of one wooden coaster with a steel structure that hasn't beat the living crud out of me, even when I was told they would be awesome. MegaZeph was probably the crowning achievement of that. I expected the ride to be miserable. Instead, with three backseat rides throughout the day, I didn't find it very rough at all. The airtime was amazing, the laterals were all right and the triple drop in the tunnel was amazing. There were a couple of slightly jarring places after the triple drop, but I never felt like it was unrideable. I found the Legend to be much tougher as a ride because I had to really figure out how to brace myself side-to-side to not go slamming back and forth, and I definitely was riding that thing defensively. I wasn't with the Voyage. Could it use some work? Yeah, but I find that the danger with any wooden coaster that is big. It clearly needs some help thanks to the constant work in the off-seasons, but it isn't currently the beat-the-junk outta you rides that I totally avoid.

In the way of space, there is no reason they couldn't make the track interact with the log flumes and / or remove one or both of them for it, which would free up a tremendous amount of space. I am at least somewhat surprised that they would be talking about creating a wooden coaster where it would actually be nearest the houses.

^ This was PERFECT info, thanks! It's only only visit of the last decade. I don't live that far from Cincinnati, and I've probably visited 50+ parks in that time, but somehow always missed it. The guy who I'm going with, it's going to be his first visit period. Again, thanks - I know not to purchase in advance now, and I also know what to look for when we pull in. Kudos!

Thanks everyone! So now my question is how can I tell if the park is busy or not, are there indicators, or is it if I get in line and it's a long wait? How are the lines for Flight of Fear and Stunt Coaster? I definitely want to ride FOF at least a few times, I have missed that thing.

If I end up buying it, and the park isn't very busy, is there still any benefit to it? Also, is there a benefit other than guaranteeing you can still get them in ordering early? Thanks!

I disagree. My personal opinion is that if they built a solid transportation network (shuttles from major beach resorts) and opened up up as a pay per ride/night time hang out spot, with the bars and restaurant infrastructure to go along with the rides...it could have worked. I would agree with you if it was designed originally like that, but it was designed as a gated park, and my disagreement was that you can't take a park designed to be gated like that, open it up and make it pay-per-play. I do agree with you that if you design the infrastructure to support that type of model, that may very well have been much more viable.

Okay, now that the Banshee talk has died down a bit, I'm heading to the park this week Thursday and I'm wondering about if people think it is worth doing Fastlane or not. I've never had the opportunity to do it at a Cedar Fair park, so I have no idea what to expect. I will say it will be my first time there in ages, and I definitely want to ride everything. Cost is not a huge factor (because I figure if I need to do it, it is WAY cheaper then coming back a second day at some undefined point in the future), but I also don't want to spend the money if I shouldn't need it. Any thoughts? Also, is it worth getting the Firehawk / Beast upgrade? Gut says yes?

^ It depends on *which* Batman clone you're talking about, as well as if it is theoretical or actual. Real world, I'd say that the Batman clones can probably chew through 1,000ish people an hour with a motivated crew and the right circumstances. I'm guessing that Banshee real world will probably be closer to 1,200ish, but understand that is based on pure speculation right now until the ride is built and we see what the actual thing runs like.

The hypers made in the apparent "heyday" of B&M (1999) included trim brakes day one. For all of the complaining that people have about B&M rides, I know one thing... I can't think of one B&M ride made since 2001 that has experienced short lines after a few years. The general public seems to eat them up, so why bother changing them? And, for the record, I think that what B&M has done with some of the newer rides is actually really outstanding. Wing Riders give a wholly different experience than inverts for instance, giving parks a reason to have both. Without going super dork here, the way that the ride is paced means that adding a second station if the crew is good should gain them nothing. The ride is timed so that the lift and the course take the same basic amount of time, and comparing it to earlier B&M inverts, this will actually have a longer load / unload time then your average Batman clone or Raptor. Theoretical capacity should be around 1500 / hour. A second station would be a complete waste.

It appears to be the same restraint used on wing riders. Flyers use a different restraint (no seat belt!) and I'm honestly really surprised that B&M hasn't used that exact design for their wing riders and now this redesign. Yes, you don't want to have someone put their legs up on the chair in front of them, lock their knees and then have the train accordion to go down the drop.

Impulse coasters and Volcano are already launched inverted coasters, so no.

It isn't like it is just now that Six Flags started building 150ft tall coasters on that side. Shockwave was built 25 years ago, so it's at least been since then that big thrill rides were over there. As for them not having enough space, you can always construct around what you've got very easily. A coaster only really takes up the space for footers - you could put all the other track above buildings and whatnot. They could probably build 10 more coasters in Southwest Territory alone if they wanted to.

Watch the ride operate really carefully next time (NOT when you are on it) and you might get a hint about if it is because of the ride ops or maybe something else... As for what you guys are saying, it sounds like you're looking more at it from a "what has the best up time / down time?" I general, I think of a bad ride to maintain as those that cost the most to keep running, and unless you're privy to the budget for various parks, it's hard to make generalizations. If Intamins go down more often, but it is a $10 part that can be quickly replaced versus a B&M that would go down and it is a $5,000 part, I'd tend to say that the Intamin would be better, even if it did whatever it's problem was 10 times for every one B&M problem. Having said that, I have heard that the rides with the best cost per ride to maintain are easily B&M coasters. The worst are Vekoma. Obviously, it depends on the ride itself, but that is what I've heard in general. I've also heard though that the more complex the ride system, the more that it costs to maintain, so something complex (launch versus chain lift, for instance) is going to cost a magnitude more. Finally, to whomever mentioned it was generally the brakes that were messed up on certain types of rides, there are only a limited amount of things that *can* go wrong to begin with - essentially, you have brakes, switches, train errors, and the lifting or launch mech. The older the ride is, the less complexity in generally the majority of the ride (trains, lifts), so it sort of magnifies any other problems with the other parts. It is extremely rare for regular maintenance to be performed on the track of non-wooden coasters, so that really limits where maintenance needs to be done. It doesn't necessarily mean it is cheaper though, as was already mentioned keeping old rides with obsolete systems operating can be very costly, which is why parks will sometimes invest in modernizing the ride controls, even though that adds a much higher level of complexity for things potentially going wrong.

I don't know if you could call it a new seating arrangement, although that would make it light years easier to board then the Vekoma design. The thing though is that I don't know if there is actually much to be gained by making the seats like that on an invert. Again, with the train attached upside down, it changes the view significantly. I never felt that the Deja Vu trains improved on the original. That type of design also elongates the train, and it would probably result in a significantly tamer ride.

That was my thought too. If anything, flipping the track would make the track more obvious. And I personally don't think we would see the rebirth of the "Deja Vu" style train on an invert. It wasn't like people loved those trains. If anything, they were a nightmare to explain to people how to board. Diamondback and other non inverted rides can get away with it because you can see the seating layout, by the fact an invert is hanging off the track, you can't on them. No matter what, the park is doing a good job drumming up interest.

I believe in the bankruptcy stuff when they were saying they expected 30,000 that was around the level they needed for profitability. You can't really look at the park as what it would need as it's bankruptcy level to become profitable, as that doesn't take into account the cost it was to build it to begin with. I can guarantee you pay per ride wouldn't work. There are so few rides there that couldn't be a winning formula. In a nutshell, it takes a LOT of staff to run even a small park correctly, which makes it basically impossible to run an overbuilt (in the way of size) park like HRP even for a small number of people. I would guess for the park to reopen and 'break even' in a year, they would need to draw at least an average of 2500 / day at a solid ticket price, and I doubt they *ever* drew that many people at a solid ticket price. You can only say that a ride is worth that much if the rides themselves stay there, and then it still really isn't because a big part of it's value is the marketability that it has, which diminishes quickly with time. Marketability is restored (at least somewhat) when a ride moves, but deconstruction and reconstruction costs make it so that used rides often cost almost as much as new ones. HRP is sort of 'lucky' that they bought rides that sit on flat ground, as that helps retain movability... Having said that, they really aren't in any danger of 'rotting away'. Nothing that the elements are doing to the rides couldn't be fixed with some sandblasting and replacement of parts.