orangeblue

Over the yrs Kumba has gotten very rough. I remember when it was smooth. I really do not know if there is a way to bring back the smoothness kumba use to have but I would certainly would love it ^ Kumba has gotten rogher, but it can be better depending how you ride it. If you keep your head back against the seat rest, you feel a lot more of the vibrations, and are a lot more suceptable to head banging. I've found that if you stick your head out of the OTSRs and brace properly, you can avoid all head banging, even in the corkscrews.

Wow, that sounds like the kind of crap you hear happening as Six Flags parks; I must say that I am dissappointed in my home park for not handling the situation better. Honestly, there are always plenty of empty seats on coaster trains, so there's no reason why they can't just use the Flash Pass/Quick Queue systems like single rider lines and place people in the empty seats so that they don't have to bump people off of rows when they were legitametly waiting to ride. Or, at the very least, have a car or row blocked off for Quick Queue riders like on Montu, that way you don't disturb the regular guests. As far as customer service/employee quality at BGA, I've always found it to be a little lack luster. Sure there are a few friendly employees, but most of them look as disinterested as zombies. I recently visited CP, and the employees there were the complete opposite of those you find at BGA. They were enthusiastic, friendly, and most importantly very efficent. For example, on Raptor they stacked the trains much less than on Montu, despite the fact that they were actually running 3 trains compared to the 2 train operation that has unfortunatly become standard on Montu and Kumba (not to metion the fact that Raptor is a shorter ride than Montu). Even on Blue Streak/Mean Streak, which has the same type of trains as those found on Gwazi (restraint wise), the dispatch time was much better (seriously BGA, Gwazi's dispatch times are down right pathetic). Now, while I sound pretty harsh, I do understand that the employees at BGA have it a lot harder than those at most other parks. They work year round, instead of seasonally, so they don't get a break from the repetative grind or ride operating, plus, they have to contend with the hot and humid Florida summer for 8+ hours a day. Overall though, I hope that BGA as a park can improve, especially with the implementation of the new Quick Queue system. Guest satisfaction is not something that management can just shrug off, and nothing makes guests more dissatisfied than being treated unfairly.

Like I said in my review, I found the front of MF to be pretty lacking in the airtime department. The first drop felt much weaker than in the back, and the two air time hills had almost zero airtime. I definetly prefer the back myself for insane ejector air on the drop and some good floater air over the hills. Now, I really don't know how much the weight in the train affects the ride. I can say that in the morning when I rode it before it warmed up, it was certainly running slower. I imagine that having less momentum due to only 1/3 of the train being full would have a similiar effect.

Thanks for the info, you're right, it sounds pretty useless with BGA's short lines. I generally never have any trouble getting on all the rides there as many times as I want with the regular queue system. Now, if this had been an unlimited ride option, or a traditional q-bot than that would have been awesome, but I can't honestly see many people using this.

I was wondering if anyone knew how the new quick queue system works at BGA/BGE. There isn't any information yet at their websites, but from the sound of the news information, it dosen't seem like this is a q-bot system, but instead a literal front of the line pass. I was wondering if it worked like the express pass system at Universal, where you don't have to wait at all (even in a virtual queue), but can only use the pass once per ride. If this is an unlimited use item, then it would be an incredible deal. In any case, I'll probably give it try the next time I make it out to BGA. Should make marathoning Sheikra easier!

^ lol, Good point, I forgot about that. I'll add it in the review.

Great trip report, I really like the pictures! I was there this past week too, but I didn't know about Coastermania, otherwise I might have stayed longer! ^ I don't really think that Cedar Point would benifit from a fast pass system. Before I went, I was nervous about going to such a crowded park and having to wait in line for hours, but despite some crowds the lines were all pretty short. Plus, I feel that a fast pass system would only slow the ride operations down (they tried something similiar a few years ago and everyone complained about it, including the ride ops). As far as a single rider line, I think the one on Maverick works well enough. Its too short to make people want to abuse it, but it does its job making sure all the seats are filled. Moreover, the only ride with a lot of empty seats going out was Raptor, but that was because they were loading it so fast that they didn't have time to wait for single riders in the queue.

Thanks everyone for the nice comments! ^The problem with CP or anything else that recieves so much hype (aka the last Indiana Jones movie or GTAIV) is that it builds up people's expectations so much to the point where if their experience is anything less than perfect, suddenly the place becomes "overhyped." No one should ever expect absolute perfection from anything, especially a place as large as CP that has to deal with so many factors to run smoothly. Adding to the problem is that everyone has different tastes. Some people might find the coaster collections better at SF Great Adventure or SFMM or the atmosphere better at Universal, but that really shouldn't take away anything from the quality of CP or any other amusment park. My advice to anyone visiting CP would be to go there with an open mind and enjoy it for what it is (remember too that all parks have good days and bad days). You'll never have a good time if you walk around all day thinking "meh, Six Flags Great Adventure is better than this place." ^Thanks! Yeh, that impressed me too. They really went out of their way to make sure that no one left the park dissappointed. I honestly didn't expect them to do anything. The line was only about 30 minutes long before the break down so it wasn't as if people had been waiting 2 hours to ride. Also, in addition to leaving the rides open for everyone, for the people that were actually stuck on the ride, they walked them up the exit ramp at TTD to get them on as quickly as possible (though it wasn't as if the line was long at that time of night, but at least it was a nice gesture). I do feel bad however for anyone that missed their only opportunity to ride Maverick, but hey, that's why you get the main rides out of the way first.

CP: Park Review Preface: Before going to the park, I had heard a lot of negative comments about CP, claiming that the park was "in decline" or it didn't deserve all the hype it gets. Well thankfully about the only stereotype that turned out to be true about CP, at least from my visit, was the insane amount of trashcans, but they did serve their job well as most of the park was spotless. Overall, I will say that the park lived up to the hype on my visit. The rides were great, the atmosphere was lively, and the park operations were top notch. The only true negative turned out to be the rain policy, as the only rides that might be genuinely effected by the rain are MF and TTD due to their high speed, and the fact that even a slight drizzle caused TTD to roll back. Rides: A+ About every single type of ride is covered at CP, and there is easily enough variety so that everyone can find something to do. They have at least 6 great coasters (IMO), including TTD, MF, Raptor, WT, Maverick, and Magnum, along with several other smaller rides that are fun for the whole family like Iron Dragon, Gemini, and Cedar Creek Mine Train. Besides the roller coasters, CP has plenty of flat rides with the main attractions being Power Tower, MaxAir, and SkyHawk along with a host of more "carnival" style flat rides like Chaos and a few others that I didn't ride for the sake of my stomach. Really, there is no shortage of exciting rides at CP, and you would have to be a pretty jaded roller coaster enthusiast to be bored by what CP has to offer. Ride Operations: A Every coaster I saw when I was there was running at max capacity, except for Mantis which looked like it was getting its train repaired at the time. In addition, the ride operators were overall fantastic. They were very efficient and enthusiastic, and actually sounded like they enjoyed their jobs. Sure there's always one or two employees that look like zombies, but the vast majority of ride ops there seemed set on doing an excellent job. The only negative here was that on the third day, TTD and Maverick were down at opening (Maverick broke down the night before), but they seemed to work quickly to get the rides back running as soon as possible. Finally, as much as the rain policy sucks, I can't really fault them for taking every measure to ensure guest safety, especially considering how the simplest case of whip lash can turn into a multi-million dollar lawsuit in America . Food: A While I only ate at Johnny Rockets and the Game Day Sports Grill, the food and service at these places was certainly above average for an amusement park. The employees were friendly, and despite some crowds, the food always arrived surprisingly quickly. As far as the quality of the food itself, it was "good," not great compared to what you can find offsite, but good in terms of amusement park standards and most importantly reasonably priced. Atmosphere: A Overall, the atmosphere at CP can best be described as lively. There's not a ton of theming, but at the same time it is an amusement park, not a theme park like Universal or Busch Gardens. To me, it actually felt like I was in a Roller Coaster Tycoon park with all the sounds of the coasters running around you, the smells of the shops, and all the great views of the rides. The only possible complaint, would be that there isn't enough shade in certain areas, mostly around the midway, but the park definitely isn't as barren as some people would have you believe, especially towards the back of the park. Cleanliness: A+ The CP staff does a great job of keeping the park clean (aided by an army of trashcans ). The queues and paths were all kept spotless, and there were no piles of garbage or walls of gum to be seen there, even in Disaster Transport's queue which was just asking for some gum to add to the "theming." Moreover, all of the buildings looked well maintained, along with the stations, and about the only ride that was begging for paint was MF. Guests: A+ This may sound like a strange category to review, but the quality of the guests at CP stood out for me. I don't know if it was just the excellent weather, or the fact that northern people are nicer, but overall the guests there were a lot more pleasant and friendly than those you find at my home parks in Florida. I didn't see anyone attempt to line jump (even in the informal line at the Magnum entrance before opening), or act intentionally obnoxious in the queues (except for maybe a few of the typical young teen crowd, but they're annoying everywhere ). In addition, no one did the very annoying clanking of the seatbelts on the brake runs, and I didn't see any of the typical graffiti/vandalism in the queues, which was probably also thanks to the great park maintenance in general. Overall, everyone just seemed to be looking to have a good time and not cause trouble. Lodging: A I stayed at the Sand Castle Suites, so I can only comment on that. Overall, the hotel was very nice, with renovated suites (consisting of 3 rooms) and all the modern amenities you could want, including two LCD TVs per room. It is a tad on the expensive side, however, but considering its proximity to the park, and the mornign ERT, it was worth it. The hotel is a little further away from the park than the Hotel Breakers, but if you really don't want to walk, they have a shuttle service. My only complaint would be that, for that price, it would have been nice for them to have a have a continental breakfast of some sort, but at least there was a restaurant onsite (Break Water Cafe) which had pretty good food. Overall Park Grade: A+ I'm a bit of a cynical person at times, but even I couldn't find much, if anything to complain about at Cedar Point. About the only negatives were the rain policy and the ugly trashcans, but otherwise the park and its employees were excellent in every regard.

CP Review Now on to the more interesting portion of my TR, a full review of CP. Rides: (only includes rides that I rode, for obvious reasons ) Magnum: 8/10 Magnum lived up to its name of being a true classic. From the spectacular views of the lake, to the insane ejector air on the return run bunny hills, this ride did not disappoint (the fact that it never had more than a station wait helped too). The only thing that keeps this ride from perfection is the fact that it is rather rough due to its classic jolt filled Arrow transitions (including a complete lack of heart-lining in the turns). In addition, the trains were slightly uncomfortable compared to those of your modern Beamer or Intamin. (BTW, does anyone know why they have the second to last car roped off?) Mean Streak: 4/10 Unfortunately, this ride too lived up to its name. It was sluggish and painfull, with each turn bringing tons of jack-hammering in all directions. A complete lack of redeeming features such as airtime or a general sense of speed didn't help matters either. The sad thing is that I could see this ride being great in its hay day before the momentum killing trims on the first drop. Today, the only thing it is good for is a decorative lawn ornament for CP's skyline. Hopefully CP will decide to replace this ride with something more worthy, like a nice Intamin El-Toro clone . Gemini: 7/10 There’s nothing very interesting to say about this ride. It had some nice airtime at spots, and the racing aspect is cool; but it had some roughness (again coming mostly from the Arrow transitions) and probably isn't worth more than a 10 - 15 minute wait. However, I'd still recommend giving this ride a shot, at least once. Disaster Transport: 6/10 This coaster is pretty fun, and even mildly thrilling thanks to the dark-ride nature of it. Unfortunately, it is only about a minute long, which compared to the 45 minute wait it typically receives, makes this ride a bit of a disappoint, especially when you consider that 45 minutes could get you a ride on TTD or Maverick. Check it out if it’s raining or the line is short, but otherwise, go with something else a little more worthwhile. Mantis: 5/10 Whoever came up with the idea of stand up coasters should be slapped (or kicked in the nuts ). This ride is just plain uncomfortable, and left me with a back ache the rest of the day (and I'm only 18). Surprisingly, the bike seat that you straddle wasn't too rough on certain regions (if you position the restraints correctly, or are a girl), but the ride made up for that lack of pain with probably the most head banging I've ever experienced on a B&M, especially after the MCBR. Overall, ride it if you need the credit, but otherwise, stay away. Iron Dragon: 7/10 I honestly don't know how this ride has gotten such a bad rap. Sure, its not very thrilling compared to something like Big Bad Wolf, but it was fun for a more family oriented coaster and even had some good g's in the final helix. Sure, it's not worth more than a 10 minute wait, but IR is far from a 'bad' coaster. Raptor: 9/10 Wow, how my home park's Montu gets rated higher than this ride, I do not know. Raptor is absolutely insane from start to finish, with some of the best pacing I've ever seen (not to mention the best final helix on a coaster ever). The fact that the MCBR brakes you less than the trims on either Mean Streak or Mantis is a testament to the unrelenting intensity of this coaster. My only complaint is that you experience quite a bit of head-banging if you ride on the left side of the train, even in the front. Besides the ride experience itself, the line was fast paced too, easily the quickest moving line at all of CP thanks to 3 train operation and a kick ass crew that was dispatching trains every minute or so. Now if I could only convince BGA to start running 3 trains on Montu again. ! MaxAir: 9/10 I've never been a big fan of flat rides, but MaxAir is simple incredible. It has great speed as well as air/hang time, and gives riders a truly unique experience thanks to the spinning. Surprisingly, the ride was also very comfortable even with the bulky restraints, so much so that I could easily take a nap on that ride if they let me (perfect combination of relaxation and thrill). Finally, unlike other rides (cough SkyHawk cough), the cycle is more than long enough, completely justifying the only 15-20 minute wait. SkyHawk: 7/10 Essentially this ride is a shorter, slower, less thrilling version of MaxAir that doesn’t spin (though I do prefer the lap bar system compared to MaxAir’s OTSRs). That’s not to say that it’s a bad ride, it just feels kind of pointless when there’s a bigger and better ride that offers the same type of thrills in the same park. Wicked Twister: 9/10 Short but thrilling, especially in the front row. While the launch is not as powerful as the one on TTD, it is still forceful enough to be pretty exciting. Going forward and backwards up the towers is a very cool experience also, but only for the front and back ends of the train. Thankfully, this ride never seems to have anything more than a station wait due to its secluded location (I do find it ironic that DT has a longer line most of the time), which means that even a front row ride is only about a 10-20 minute wait. Cedar Creek Mine Train: 7/10 Not bad for a standard Arrow mine train, with one nice drop and a powerful final helix. It’s a little rough in spots, especially on the back, but nothing compared to most of the larger rides. Even if you’re not a “credit whore” this family ride is still fun enough to check out as long as the line is short. Blue Streak: 7/10 Another great classic coaster with some intense ejector air packed into its short course. Thankfully, despite its age, it’s nowhere near as rough as Mean Streak, and is worth the short wait it usually receives. In terms of operation, this ride was, however, pretty slow loading, but I have a feeling that’s due to the trains and the small station. Millennium Force: 9/10 Back of the Train 8/10 Front of the Train While this is obviously an exceptional coaster with an incredible first drop, the experience is at least partially determined by where you sit. Although the front row offers a great view of the park and the drop, the airtime is much weaker on the first drop and the two airtime hills compared to the back seat which offers insane out-of-your seat air on the first hill, and great sustained floater air on the “bunny” hills. Now, don’t misunderstand me, this is one incredible ride not matter where you sit, but I thought that the differences were worth mentioning. As far as wait times go, this ride was easily my longest wait at CP, but it was worth it and the music from the DJ in line helped make it more exciting. As a side note, this is the only ride where I ever felt like I was going to black out. Top Thrill Dragster: 10/10 While it can be said that this ride is a “one trick pony,” it has the best trick of any coaster I’ve ever rode. The launch and view from the top are nothing short of breath-taking thanks in part to the open nature of the trains. I do wish that I could have had the opportunity to experience a roll back (apparently the train after me did roll back), but even a “standard” ride on TTD is just incredible. Finally like with most of the rides at CP, ride operations on this coaster stood out, with 5 train operation, and an excellent crew that made sure every seat was filled by taking the time to ask for single riders. However, I do feel a little bad for the ride ops that have to listen to that same song repeating for 8 hours a day . Maverick: 10/10 I don’t know if there can truly be any coaster that is absolutely perfect, but Maverick sure comes close. It has literally every aspect of a great ride (well maybe not height ), including a great first drop, intense airtime, fast pacing, cool inversions, insane twists and dives (Stengal dives must now be a mandatory part of every coaster ), an incredible launch, unbelievable smoothness and flow (the first few turns make you feel as though you are surfing along the track), efficient design, and even great theming. As a coaster enthusiast, I hope we see more rides that are as unique and thrilling as this coaster in the future. Sorry TTD, as awesome as you are, Maverick is now the best coaster in the park, and probably will hold that position for some time.

Note: I didn't take any pictures due to the fact that I'm not really into photography and I thought that it would be unecessary since everyone here has already seen 1000's of pictures of CP. This TR is broken up into 2 parts, the actuall trip report and my own review of Cedar Point based on my experience. Trip Report: First Visit to CP with my dad. Note: I'm not going to go into too much detail about my opinions of anything since those will be in my review. Days in Park: June 17 - 19 Weather: Highs in the low 70's and thankfully only about 30 minutes of rain on the 18th. This was definetly excellent weather for Cedar Point, and a nice break from my typical Floridian summers of high temps and high humidity. Lodging: Sand Castle Resort Total Time in Park: 23 hours, about equivalent to 2 full days Crowds: Light to Moderate, busiest day was Wednesday, and the slowest was probably Thursday. Wait Times: Pretty low by CP standards. Average Line Lengths for Major Rides: Maverick: 40 minutes - 1 hour Millenium Force: 45 minutes - 1 hour Top Thrill Dragster: 25 - 45 minutes Mantis: 20 - 30 minutes Raptor: 20 - 35 minutes Magnum: Less than 10 minutes Mean Streak: Walk-on Gemini: Less than 10 minutes Wicked Twister: Less than 15 minutes (inside station) Blue Streak: 15 - 20 minutes MaxAir: 15 minutes Disaster Transport: 30 - 45 minutes SkyHawk: Less than 10 minutes Overall, I was pretty pleased with the wait times. Nothing seemed unreasonable, except for the 45 min wait for Disaster Transport at mid-day. Day 1: 3pm - 9pm Magnum 1x Mean Streak 1x Maverick 1x Millenium Force 1x Mantis 1x Raptor 1x MaxAir 1x Wicked Twister 1x TTD 1x Overall the 1st day went really well, but my dad and I were both exhausted by the end of it, so we left the park early to get some sleep. Most the waits that day were a little longer since I insisted on either the front or back rows on most the rides in order to get the full experience. We ate dinner/lunch at the Johny Rockets. Day 2: Full Day 9am - 10:35pm Maverick 2x Millenium Force 2x TTD 4x Raptor 2x Wicked Twister 2x MaxAir 3x Disaster Transport 1x Iron Dragon 2x Magnum 1x Gemini 1x SkyHawk 2x Blue Streak 1x Another great day at the park, with only a little rain at 10am delaying the opening of TTD for 30 minutes as I watched trains roll back. To start the day off, I arrived at the park for 9am ERT and got to participate in my first "running of the bulls" from the Magnum entrance to Maverick (though most people quit running after 5 minutes ). My dad and I ate both lunch and dinner at the Game Day Grill and breakfast at the Break Water Cafe. The only 'interesting' thing that happened that day, was a breakdown at Maverick at 9:30pm when I was 2 trains from riding. By around 10pm they told us that the ride would likely be down the rest of the night, but on the bright side, they left Millenium Force and TTD open for us until 10:30pm, allowing me to score 2 quick night rides on TTD. I would just like to say thanks to CP and the employees who stayed late for handling the situation so well as most places would have just said "sorry" and told us to go home. Day 3: 9am - 2pm Millenium Force 2x TTD 1x Maverick 1x Raptor 1x Iron Dragon 1x Magnum 1x MaxAir 1x SkyHawk 1x Disaster Transport 1x Gemini 1x Cedar Creek Mine Train 1x Wicked Twister 1x For only 5 hours in the park, I was luckily able to ride every single ride I wanted to, including 2 rides on MF during ERT (Maverick was still broken in the morning). Overall, I was very pleased with how much I got out of the 3 days at CP thanks to only moderate crowd levels and excellent weather despite the rather ominous clouds that were continuously rolling off Lake Erie. While I will give my full impressions of the park in the review portion, I will say that CP far exceeded my expectations in nearly every area, from the rides to the top notch ride crews.

bump Anyone else have any advice?

*bump* I thought I would bump this thread to tell everyone that I decided to go to Cedar Point. Thanks again everyone for the advice and tips. I will arrive Tuesday and will be staying at the Sandals Resort Wednesday and Thursday, and should get about 2 days worth of time in the park (Tuesday: 4/5-10pm, Wednesday: all day, Thursday: 9-3/4pm). Thankfully, the weather outlook looks good for all three days, with highs in the low 70's and only a slight chance of rain, probably in the afternoon. I do have a few final questions though, primarily for any of you that have visited recently: - Are all the rides operating? I know that Wildcat had an accident a few weeks ago, but I haven't heard of any other problems, and I assume that it is open again. - What have the crowds been like so far? I'm going during the theoretically slowest days of the week, so I'm hoping that they will only be moderate (30-45min waits for the main coasters, 10-20 for everything else). - Where is the best (quickest) place to buy tickets? Can I purchase them directly from the resort, or do I buy them at the Magnum entrance? Plus, how busy is the Magnum entrance during the morning ERT? - What are the best places to eat in the park? Thanks again!

Wow, that sucks, glad they got what they deserved. It always ticks me off when people get their way at places by throwing a tantrum like a 3 year old. I did find it interesting, though, that the people with a handicap pass have to wait the same amount of time as everyone else at SFMM. At most places, the handicap pass is essentially a front of the line pass, which leads to a lot of people who aren't really handicaped ("I have ADHD so I can't wait in long lines...") abusing the system, like the people that tag along with one handicapped person and get free rides with them. While I have no problem with people that are truely disabled having certain privlages at rides, the amount of abuse and exploitation of the system that goes on annoys me, and I'm glad certain parks are doing something about it (though honestly I think Six Flags adopted that policy only to sell more Flash Passes )

This is great news, I've been hoping that they would do this for some time. I'll have to try it out next time I go. Unfortunatly, I don't know how successful this would be for Busch Gardens, since, as everyone has pointed out, they never really have long lines thanks to their coaster's great capacities. A full queue on Kumba or Montu is only 20-30 minutes, and Sheikra is about 45 though usually less. It might be popular on some of the water rides though, like the Congo River Rapids that can have a 70 min wait during the summer.

Hmmm... BGA never really has a running of the bulls. Everytime I go at opening, I'm usually the only one running. Makes me fell kind of awkward

I'd say don't risk it without getting accurate medical information from a doctor that knows about your specific case. Even if people on this forum have gone through certain similiar procedures and were told whether they can or cannot ride roller coasters, they have no way of knowing whether it is the same for your situation. If your doctor dosen't know, then you should ask other doctors, preferably those who specialize in heart surgery, and I would urge you not to base any decisions on the responses of people on the internet that have no medical experience and don't know you. Good luck getting better!

Well, merging people before the station seems like it could lead to conflict between the Flash Pass guests and the regular guests (we already know that a lot of tension exists there). In addition, the station wait could still be some 30 minutes, which wouldn't be fair to the Flash Pass users who paid for no wait. In my opinion, the best system is to just have the F.P. line similiar to a single rider line in that they enter through the exit and then wait for an empty seat. For example, on most B&M coasters, a single train usually has 5-6 empty seats. Instead of leaving them empty, they could fill them with the Flash Pass users. That way, they get on quickly, and the GP dosen't get pissed off when they have to wait another train because they got bumped from their row for FP users. Now, if a group of FP users want to sit together, they could bump a row for them if necessary (while seating people waiting for that row in other empty seats), or if a person wants to wait for a certain row (ie. front or back), they can chose to wait another cycle or two to see if a spot opens up in that row. The only problem with a system like this is that it takes good cooperation and efficency by the crew in the station to sort everything out. If a ride has a staffing issue, operations could suffer greatly.

I went in early July on a thursday last year, and it was fairly crowded due to school functions/conventions (I was with one). I waited 15 min for Gwazi, 25 min for Kumba, 20 min for Montu, and 45 min for Sheikra. Despite the crowds, the lines move pretty fast. I typically visit the parks on Sundays during various times of the year, and can get all the coasters done in the first 2 hours the parks open with multiple rerides. On a weekday you'll have more than enough time to do everything if you arrive early.

Thanks everyone for your advice, sorry I can't comment on them each individually. I think that I will go to Cedar Point versus the other options, as it seems like an opportunity that I just can't pass up. As a long time coaster enthusiast Cedar Point looks like a must visit park, and it seems like most of you agree. Hopefully I'll be able to visit SFMM and SFGAd some time in the next few years. The main attractions I want to ride are: MF, TTD, Maverick, Raptor, Mantis, Wicked Twister, Magnum, Maxair, Skyhawk, though of course I'd like to get all the credits if possible, but those are my priority. I think that I will stay on site also, mostly for the convience. You guys don't seem to think that lines will be a huge problem that time of the year. I can handle 1 hour waits, but I draw the line at 2 hours + for a single ride; its just not worth it. I'll probably follow your advice and hit the attractions towards the back of the park first to avoid lines, especially if I get to use the Magnum entrance. I really wish that Cedar Fair would get with the times and install a Flash Pass system, especially since their park is so popular. I heard they had something like that a few years ago but abandoned it due to guest complaints (I don't know why they'd complain, if you don't buy the pass wait in line with everyone else, it dose not seem very complicated). One final question, how much could I get done in a 1 hour morning ERT? From the CP TRs most people say that Maverick has a one hour line even during ERT unless you get there first. Would MF be a better ride to start with, or even TTD if its open?

As a long time coaster enthusiast, I've always dreamed of some day visiting Cedar Point. This summer, likely around June-July, I may get the chance to finally travel to the park for a few days. However, after becoming more knowledgable about the coaster world, specifically from reading the TRs on this site, I'm beginning to wonder whether Cedar Point would be worth it, or if I should consider some other major theme park like SFMM, or Six Flags Great Adventure. They all have a comparable coaster selection, but they seem to offer different experiences. This aspect even becomes more complex, when I consider that Six Flags has been raising its quality over the past few years to match parks like Cedar Point. Cedar Point still seems to have that special atmosphere, like its the Las Vegas of the amusment industry, but I honestly don't know if that puts it over other parks like the two previoulsy mentioned. Ok, so I'll be a little more concrete with my concerns. After reading numerous TRs about Cedar Point, especially the ones from the TPR visit last year, I've gotten the impression that many coaster enthusiasts consider the park to be over-hyped. In addition, the park seems to have some deal breakers like the most asinine rain policy I have ever heard of(that can potentially ruin a trip if you go at the wront time), and extremely long lines, not helped by the fact that it is a very popular park and it lacks a Fast Pass system (unless you count the rediculously expensive VIP program). Personally I hate long lines since my home park (BGA) has spoiled me with short waits for years, so I really like the idea of being able to skip lines at the Six Flags parks with their reasonable priced QBots. The thought of having to wait an hour plus at every major coaster at Cedar Point, assuming I visit during the summer, makes me question whether or not it would be an enjoyable experience or extremely stressful trying to make sure I get all of the major credits in. If anyone has any thoughts on this, please share them. On to another set of questions. Despite my concerns, I still don't think that I would pass up a trip to Cedar Point. So I have a few, probably obvious, questions for you people that have been to the park recently: 1) What will the crowds be like in June - early July? 2) If I visit the park for 2 days, will I have enough time to do everything? 3) Is the Hotel Breakers worth it for the 1 hour morning ERT? 4) What kind of lines should I expect, assuming I visit on weekdays (Mon. - Thur.) for the major attractions. 5) What is the chance of rain in Ohio during these months? 6) And finally, as more of a subjective question, do you think that Cedar Point has a better collection of coasters than say SFMM or Six Flags Great Adventure? Thanks in advance for any help or opinions!

Well, if I had to guess, I think that it might be something like Vertigo: http://www.rcdb.com/ig3457.htm It meets the requirments: gliding experience, not a traditional coaster, and family friendly. I imagine that Sea World could do a lot with a ride like this, theming wise.

If Communism failed in Russia and China, what makes you think that it'll work in some Six Flags Park? But seriously, if it's offered to everyone, then it's fair. The more you pay, the more you'll get. LOL "Everyone is equal, some people are just more equal than others."

Like I said, I've never actually been in a park that uses the system, so my feelings on it might be different if I were to have some first hand experience with it. I stick by my opinion that the system is fair in principle, but I agree that the situation you described is completly unfair. Flash passes should not be something that hinders park enjoyment for the people that don't use them.

One of the more controversial issues to hit the amusment park industry over the past few years has been the introduction of fast/flash pass systems at many larger parks. Some people feel they are unfair to the guests that don't use them, or harm capacity; while others love them for being able to skip 2 hour lines on busy days. In addition, I'm sure parks like Six Flags like the idea of making money off of their long lines caused by bad operations (ie one train running on a busy day or understaffing a ride). Anyways, I'm wondering what you guys think of these systems. Are they implemented well, are they worth it, etc? Personally I like the idea, but have never actually used it myself. If my home park of BGA were to get a QBot or similiar system I'd be pretty happy. I've never understood the argurments againt it such as the whole class argument claim that such systems seperate the richer and poorer park patrons. For me I see it like visiting a restaurant, where someone with more money to spend might buy a filet, while someone with less money might buy a sirloin. Both get a good experience, one just choses to spend a little more to get a slightly better one. The fact is, this is how a capitalist society works, and I see no problem with this philosphy permiating into the amusment bussiness. If I have the choice to spend 20 dollars to avoid standing in a hot line for an hour I would gladly pay that. Overall, I hope more parks adopt this system (as long as it is in an efficent fashion). Opinions? What have been your experiences with flash passes?