teacherkim

I don't think it is just a wage issue or atmosphere/boring place issue. Yes, staffing was an issue pre-Covid but of course worse after. Not being able to recruit in schools or get foreign workers was an issue for a while afterwards. But I mean there are lots of dud places to work, like any fast food place or the hardware store. Your assessment may have merit but it affects the guest more than the worker. I really really think in our particular market location coupled with so many less teens working at all is a problem. Most of the area around the park is pretty affluent and I cannot tell you how few of my son's friends had/have summer jobs in high school and/or college. Part of the reason their is such a huge lifeguard shortage. I mean I didn't grow up poor but everyone worked once they hit 15 or 16...........so many more kids doing summer classes and internships, to their detriment in this former teacher's opinion. Plus I worked in a school district that had a LOT of kids that would work and could have desperately used the money and needed something to do in the summer. Problem is it is a solid 35-45 minutes away and they cannot get there. The park does have a bus (or did at one point) that goes from the North Hanley Metro Station to the park but you have to pay to use it, scheduling is difficult, it's a long way, etc. Seems like it might be worth the investment to have transportation from some key spots around town for the employees. Like have a pickup point at South county mall or other points closer to areas where the potential employees are. I mean HW has an old school bus that drives around to key pickup points to get employees that are all spread out on farms and such. And there may be a million reasons that won't work, just off the top of my head, but there has to be something they can try.

While I realize everyone wants new rides. I really feel like the more immediate need to increase guest satisfaction at the moment is to solve our staffing issue. While it is clearly an issue at other parks and in other types of businesses, it is also seems worse at our park for some reason. I realize it is in the far out burbs but frankly so are most parks. I mean SFGAm is clearly in a larger metro area but half way between Milwaukee and Chicago so not exactly convenient to much of the populace as far as working there. So many of the things people end up complaining about like long lines and shortened hours could be solved if we simply had more staff. I mean they were never ever close to what is considered fully staffed for ride ops and the waterpark was massively short on life guards. Not sure what the answer there is but would like to see the powerful high paid muckety mucks come up with some creative solutions. I mean at least try something new, traditional methods of getting staff are not working very well.

I was there the last Saturday of FF. Some things same as always such as long lines for everything, it was packed to the point of parking went all the way to the grass area. We fastpassed the haunts and didn't worry about rides on this trip. Some things still feel not up to full steam such as the atmosphere wasn't quite like it used to be although I'm not sure I can pinpoint all the reasons why. One problem for sure was the scare zones were lacking scare actors, I mean from no one to just one or two staff. The 4 houses were fine but nothing awesome, definitely not as good as SFGAm (I mention that one because it was the only other SF FF I attended) I would be fine with only four houses if they were staffed better. Now I will say this the theming on the corn maze and slaughterhouse were in my opinion stepped up from years past. The Christmas gone bad themed one had the most potential, starting it in the catering grove and following the old antique car track was creative and it was quite long. But similarly to Camp Killamore they didn't execute it quite as well as they could have; it was fine but could have been so much better. Again staffing was a large part. The clown one was the weakest by a longshot. However my husband who hung out with me that night because the boy was working Boss and he knows I have a weird love of haunted houses which belies my suburban mom seeming appearance didn't know enough to know it wasn't the best. Along with several people in line that I talked to from various nearby dinky towns that don't go to any other parks. I think they are a lot of the bread and butter of this particular park.

Cedarflags I agree with most of what you said. Universal has always been my favorite park. Although I love Hagrid's but probably more because I've always been a big HP fan. I too thought it would be nice if they had another way to get from park to park and it might cut down the line at the train somewhat. Not sure if there is geography or infrastructure in the way of that happening or what. The Bourne show is not only the only show my son goes to without grumbling, he goes several times on every trip. My biggest disappointment with HHN, we were there in 2019, was the massive conga line style of sending people through and all of the non scare actor staff that are standing in the houses. I get why they kind of have to on both counts but just took away from the atmosphere for me.

Thanks for the clarification, good to know. I can't remember for sure. Was 2016 the first year they did HITP? 6 years seems about right. Look, we can argue about the worthiness of HITP and discuss whether passes are worth it or not......All. We. Want. It will not affect the outcome. Will enough people stop buying passes to change that. Who knows? BUT (and as I used to tell my students this is a big but ) whatever the reasons why, the parks that HITP was pulled from were clearly not making a profit or it wouldn't have been pulled. I will forever be a summer girl; I like Christmas stuff but not as much as FF stuff, SFGAdv may lose it crack den summer charm for a family Christmas vibe but I wouldn't travel there for it because it's not worth it to me due to weather, I will and do travel places for FF. How many feel like me? How many feel the opposite? How many don't give a damn? I guess that is what the CEO is gambling on..........I just hope in the end the parks survive the experiment and come out stronger in the end. Now on a different subject. If you go to the job postings on the web site which is not yet updated for next year. They have Park President listed for SFSTL, SFOT, SFGAdv, SFOG, & SFA, which is probably due to some house rule about posting all jobs to get all possible candidates but I find funny since it is usually in house or poached from some other theme park. So tell anyone you know that is qualified and maybe they can climb the corporate ladder to knock Selim out of his job

Maybe Mardi Gras/Carnival? This year Fat Tuesday is Feb 21 (but I could see the parks stretch it until Easter in early April) or do MG Jan and Feb and some sort of Spring break thing in March.

As far as the "is a pass worth it or not" that is obviously different for every individual/family based on price and what rides/events they like. I tend to think of passes not in terms of individual parks. We have SF and CF passes that are good for all the parks so we can go where we want, when we want. I realize that isn't financially feasible for everyone based on circumstances, time to travel, etc, etc but the offerings of one individual park aren't really a factor in my decision on what passes to have. We had passes for all the SW/BG parks for one year because we got a super good deal on an upgrade after a chance visit to SWSA and the fact that we knew we were going to be in Orlando and San Diego during the next calendar year, wasn't about individual offerings. I'm bring this up not to say one perspective is better than another just to point out that there are different reasons people have for getting passes, just like some of you have it for HITP which would never be a motivator for me, The real question is what will a majority of people do? What price point are they willing to go up to? And, what experiences will be important and justify the expense for them? I'm not even going to speculate, I have no idea and I'm not sure anyone else does either, including the CEO who is gambling on what he THINKS will happen. The sampling on this forum MAY be an indicator but is hardly a large enough sample to know for sure.

Ok, if you say so. I don't really get it and find it hard to believe you would have gone only maybe one other time outside of HITP but to each their own. I guess I assumed the weather was more of a factor for most people. I have no idea how many rides they are able to run in the New Jersey winter, maybe more than I think. Well as far as the profitability I truly believe almost all of the attendees for HITP were passholders, I mean many of you have stated that's why you had them, so they already had food, parking, etc included and weren't spending a lot of extra money. Whereas FF draws in people that don't normally do a lot of amusement parks and are willing to pay a lot for the experience. As far as closures my son worked 3 seasons of HITP and I know there were at least a couple days each year they closed for weather (or closed early) but sometimes they would "open" without being fully open, for example I can remember going one year on Dec 30 (when he was younger and wasn't working there yet) and it was so bitterly cold that they couldn't even open mine train, it was just the shows, JL and a handful of kiddie rides which most people with little kids weren't there because it was so cold and then they made that the last night of the season even though it was supposed to be open through New Year's Day based on the forecast of super cold weather continuing. We walked around, looked at the lights, ate some soup (included on our pass), maybe watched one show and left after an hour or so. No extra money for the park, that was just the perspective I was thinking of. I mean yes lots of nights were busier but then those nights happened. And yes, reduce ride staff needed but more entertainment staff than on an average summer operating day. Also, I believe that last few years they were contracting out for all the lights to be put up, not doing it in house, that is expensive.

I agree that area looks much better now and hope the same for KI. We got stuck on the brake run of I05 last April at the very end of the night and as we were walking out through a completely deserted park the drum/jungle music going through Jungle-X was seriously way creepier than any haunt or scare zone I've ever been through, lol.

Hysterical until it starts a chain reaction of puking, Although normally I do love a lot of theming, but no puking guy magnets on my refrigerator, where I keep the food!!

Uhhh, the barfing animatronic in NOT cool. For someone that is sometimes on the edge that would be enough to cause chain vomiting, particularly with the sneaky spinner rides.

We toyed with the idea of coming to this event but went to KI haunt instead..........................maybe next year?!

I will agree we didn't have to wait to long for food. However, they did start closing a lot of venues kind of early. JR and Mooseburger for instance closed a couple hours before the park did, so we had some limited options starting around 7 or 8 with a 10 pm close. It was a Sunday night and not Sat so that probably factored in but the park was very crowded until close since the next day was a holiday.

Exactly!! Glad someone got my reference, lol.

It wasn't so much about the jump scares, although they had a couple good ones and one in particular,(and my son is VERY hard to jump scare) but just that the scareactors did a great job staying in character and interacting with the guests. When we got to the front of the frightlane line they were checking passes a second time (totally understandable as with the long line it would have been very easy for someone to duck under the rope from the regular line) and my son had already tucked his away under his jacket and took him a minute to dig it out and the scareactor was giving him all sorts of crap as befitting the character she was playing about wasting her time and there's people waiting and etc, etc. We were both laughing about it and it was sort of like that through the whole maze

Make sure you hit Cornered over by the drop tower. It had the best cast and the best scare zone leading up to it. The only maze I felt like was a complete waste of time and totally skippable was Chaos in area 72. More mirrors than actors. Meh.

Ok, I get it, HITP is all awesomeness for you guys, lol. Guess I'm just not into spending several hours wandering around freezing my ass off with not much to ride, like the Halloween shows much more (yes I am a complete Pagan), and their smore's sucked because they used cheap chocolate. Christmas at the FL parks where I can be warm is much more my speed. Honestly HH has always been more of a motivator to me than HITP, so to each their own. BUT personal preference aside I just don't think it was worth it from the park/employee perspective. My son hated working HITP as it was not consistent since they closed often for weather and he never knew how much he was going to work, plus 7 hours was a long shift in the cold. FF has way more upcharge stuff than HITP doesn't because they clearly don't have any confidence they would be profitable or they would have done it during past events. Bottom line they were losing money and it's probably not coming back, although I agree it is kind of douchey to have advertised it when passes were on sale and then take it away, THAT is on corporate as far as I am concerned. And I never compared crowds between the carousel and any event .....so don't go there. Although apparently they did tell the attendees of the ACE event in Sept that it would be re opening in 2023, no not a specific date, but 2023 as originally planned.

So glad you are taking the time to do the trip report and hope it is therapeutic for you! Just now getting a chance to sit down and get caught up since I left for a long trip the day you started posting (as you know) Really happy for you that you got to see the Arc de Triomphe in all its naked glory............totally covered in plastic when I was there

Hmmm, that's interesting. Like I said I get that people are upset, I was just kind of talking back to the people that were claiming it was the be all and end all of their season pass existence and that yes it wasn't the decision of the local park leaders.

As my grandmother used to say, "from your lips to God's ears"

Well since no one ever answered me, I'll answer myself, in case anyone else wants to know. We were at the park from about 3:30 to close on Sunday and open until about 3:30 on Monday. Monday was a bonus day since it was Columbus Day which IL schools still celebrate, but there were no haunts or FF activities at all that day, since they were only open until 7. Still fairly respectable sized crowd for that sort of day though but nothing too ridiculous as far as lines. Sun night they were open later than normal since Monday was the holiday, until 10. Typical Six Flags FF as far as scare zones and atmosphere, I thought Gates of Hell was by far the best maze, although I would advise not doing it until it is full dark since there are some outdoor portions. We did it when there was still a little light left and I think that detracted from it a bit. But it's a long haunt with an appetizer, main dish, and dessert portion to the whole thing. Best scares I saw all night were the people coming off of the far side of Joker and the scare zone actor in the covered bridge next to the exit was getting them as they came off the ride and were completely not expecting it since they were in the exit queue. Had never been on Am Eagle and all I can say is what a weird layout. The helix might have been interesting if it was dueling but alas only the blue side was running on Sun and it was closed all day Mon. Maxx Force, personally I thought it was more interesting than TTD. The launch was less uncomfortable even though faster because it was so much shorter and something actually interesting happened after that. One beef- I made a reservation for preferred parking for Sunday which we get with our membership, knowing we wouldn't be there until later in the day and it would be busy. Get there only to be told it was full, too bad. I explained that a reservation meant that a spot was being held for me (which the fine print says it will be until a couple hours before close), toll booth employee looked at me blankly clearly not understanding what a reservation meant and I felt like I was in a Seinfeld episode. Anyway checked the next day at guest relations and was told yeah it is simply first come, first serve. To be fair the employees there were sympathetic and apologized. Ok, fine. Not that big a deal. I know we showed up about 4 hours after opening. BUT then why bother to let people make reservations online which is kind of a pain in the butt? That kind of stuff drives me crazy.

Fair assessment. We've never made it out to Silverwood so cannot comment on the comparison. I will say that HW without doing the waterpark is really only half the experience in my opinion, even for those that aren't generally waterpark fans the 3 water coasters there are unique, quality rides. Part of the unique fun of HW is the improbability of encountering something like a B&M launched wing coaster in the middle of a cornfield. I mean it just shouldn't be there, but it is, lol. Trimless Voyage does make it haul ass through the second half but I think riding it at cooler temps affects the smoothness and roughness issue much more.

Thnaks! I don't think it was temps though. Beast was down then up then down on Fri night and it was just as cold on Sat night (down to about 40 by midnight) and everything was up until close.

The funny thing is, employees were sent an email a couple weeks ago about this and told to put their availability for it in the schedule, but it never opened up. So.... I have no idea who is staffing this thing, lol. Very curious how this ends up working out.

I honestly have no idea what is going on with the ada ramp and agree that is a project that needs to be done quickly once they started so F on that. As far as the lowest level pass not including HH and FF. I'm really not sure how I feel about that. I mean at one point a lot of people on various threads (not just this one) were complaining that they were "giving away" season passes and it was too crowded/too many teens, so that would theoretically address some of that and maybe justify the more expensive passes with more perks; but I get that in essence something is being taken away and will make some grumpy. Also, there are some people that could really care less about HH and are fine with an option that cuts that out, although they might be the minority. I'm honestly waiting to see what happens with the memberships that are still on going. A team member in guest relations at SFGAm on Monday strongly implied to me that they would be going away soon, so .....? I have to say about HITP though, and partly because people on FB are losing their shit about it. For all those that claim it was the ONLY reason that they have a pass (again not necessarily here but a lot of the FB crowd are claiming this) Really? You got a pass just because of HITP? Not buying that. I mean put in in perspective. This is an event that cost a lot of time and money to set up and tear down, plus all the extra pay to performers for rehearsal time on shows and such for maybe 18 operating days. Minus the 2-3 that almost always got canceled for weather AND the fact that a good chunk of the rides didn't operate. Plus the park basically not making any money on it. As well as the fact that it was hard for employees to rely on those hours because they were short shifts, bad weather conditions, and sometimes got canceled at the last minute. I agree the current CEO is making some head scratcher decisions but not sure I blame them on this one.