Goooose

I've never ridden outlaw run but I've ridden new texas giant and el toro. El toro is far more wooden than rmc's but I preferred that sensation. New texas giant was still full of vibrations though so I imagine their wooden coasters will strike a good balance and hope someone can speak about outlaw run for us. This is a serious serious question that I hope doesn't just get buried in here. AKA I want the park to see it. The tribe has clearly spoken and airtime is clearly in. The breadth of ride experiences that exists and is demanded today by the general public has changed a lot since Raging Bull was first built. Maybe back in the day, when those chairs and the height left riders feeling more exposed, or for some structural reasons i'm unaware of, the trim breaks were necessary. But the general public is clearly ready for a trim-less bull and B&M has perfected their airtime machines over the past 15 years as well, making rides loaded with floater hills. Is it really necessary to stick us with a tamed bull, as if the only alternative is another 30 million dollar investment in a newer ride, when all you have to do is turn those babies off? Is it really necessary to trim what could be a negative g float when you have dozens of them collectively between Viper, Eagle, and now Goliath?

Goliath end of day, Monday March 10th. AND WE'VE GOT 8 ON-SIGHT PICTURES ON GREAT AMERICA'S FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/SFGreatAmerica/posts/10151919136406356 They are building the Dive Loop already near the station. The author of the post called it a raven turn but I'll just assume they're talking about the dive loop because there is nothing else to be built with wood. Bents are stacking up nothing has gone vertical though.

Here is the most recent shot from the construction cam. You can finally see how the overbank will top out. And the rest of the structure is taking some recognizable shape. End of day today will be spectacular and can't wait for the end of the week. Hopefully they can finish having the track installed by end of week next week and after that the dive loop and lift will go up. I noticed that graphic too. Looks like they took promo shots in the actual trains and updated the ride graphic. Shocking, because Six Flags typically doesn't pay much attention to detail. Glad to see the changes and liberties each park is taking with their social media, and the changes in the chainwide website. The ride descriptions and photographs are unique to each park whereas before, they would just slap jpegs of random rides everywhere. It essentially told the story, we don't care about our individual parks, so you shouldn't either and shouldn't bother visiting. Now, on SFGAm's page for example, you see the carousel, the water park with viper and Bull in the background, etc--things that say "hey, this is great America. this is how we are unique."

Another bent making its way up. Won't add any height but will make the structure more dense from the webcam's perspective as they place bents around the curvature of the overbank. That airtime hill is going to hurrrrt (so good). Coming off a 125 foot hill and hitting a 60 foot hill.. Can't wait. This ride not only meets the needs and desires of the coaster industry right now, being an RMC and a record breaker, but it also, in its small footprint, fills several voids in Great America's roster of coasters and elements. Overbank turns... pretty much nonexistent at great America. Raging bull was built at a time in which full circuit coasters never dropped steeper than 65 degrees or banked more than 50/60ish (sitdown coasters). while we have unique ejector air on the first drop of bull (Raging Bull and El Toro have the best first drops in the business. Better than New Texas Giant's), and plenty of air on Viper and eagle, we really don't have THIS level of negatives in the park just yet. A dive loop: we finally have an immelmann on X-flight, but since we got a first-generation B&M standup and no floorless in the late nineties/early 2000s, our park has never had a proper dive loop. Then there's the zero g stall, which NOBODY has, and finally, a proper 85 degree first drop off the lifthill, with now 5 foot drop like bull. Crazy to think about but an uninterrupted first drop is rare in our B&M dominated park. Yes I know, we have Viper and Eagle, but this feels different. Its a more high-tech gadget and those conform to more traditional designs with traditional trains. I'll try to get over there either today or tomorrow to take some pictures from off property

I have a feeling the first drop will just barely fit on this webcam!

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin bout! Wow!

Although I love entertaining the idea of renovating it, even redesigning it, doing an iron horse or just topper track treatment so we never have to discuss how rough it is ever again, I would never advocate for its demolition. Other than colossus there is a white wooden coaster in Japan that I have a photo of in an old roller coaster book somewhere... and then there is eagle. It is a behemoth. There are three major white woodies (of this scale) left so keeping the structure is important for the coaster world and especially for the park, whose seen Iron wolf, shockwave, and deja vu go recently... as well as tital wave, z force, etc. A topper track treatment would really be the best bet. It would respect the intamin design and preserve it while cutting maintenance costs and improving guest experience. I honestly hope that this route is a serious consideration by the park and I know they've had time to think about it over the past year, spending so much time with RMC andor dealing with this project. If we were to consider a redesign, I think it would be fun to give one side to RMC and another to Intamin and have a contest of sorts. Shoot a documentary about the original coaster, the records it broke, the memories that were formed on it, and the challenge of restoring it-updating it-making a contest of it with the two best wooden coaster manufacturers in the world. It would be unprecedented. The ride would get so much attention around the world and they could air the documentary on Travel channel.

Ooo If only RMC could get some LIMS on the straight track at the end of the helix and then vastly improve the second half of the experience. Think about an overbank on blue approaching its final run or even an outerbank, some sideways bunny hills, turn the final helix into a figure 8 or double helix. We could dream all day. As important as this coaster is to preserve, one issue I have is that it takes up the best real estate in the park. And since the park is so short on real estate, it is basically one of only two people eaters/high capacity rides. The park is always packed and all of its popular attractions are low capacity/2 train operation. American eagle runs 4 trains at a time and if the coaster were even more popular or renovated, they could run 6 trains at a time and stay relevant in the coaster world. Another coaster's track could easily run alongside of it or take up the maintenance/employee access road by the railroad. They couldn't mess with the access road under goliath because it feeds the entire interior of the park and I doubt they would want to touch this one too but they really ought to consider it. This is where any desire to improve it comes from, and the precedent set simply be the existence of RMC. We know anything is possible. Whether or not its a good idea right now or ever is a different question. I think they've recently retracked some of the coaster. Its my impression though that this is a constant necessity in wood coaster maintenance so I'm unsure if this was an expensive improvement out of the ordinary or just minor touchups.

Lets say RMC gets to retrack American Eagle sometime in the future. They ought to be able to retrack, put in new trains and a new ride operating system, treat the straight stretch at the top of the helix as a MCBR to operate 3 trains, speed up the lift possibly, and finally, correct the end of the ride. Those break runs could become 2 bunny hills each, and the helix could be sharpened, smoothened, and allow for some fast positive g's before the break run. Other more significant alterations would be controversial and challenge the role in the marketplace filled by Goliath. BUT if they had to IBOX or retrack and had the opportunity to redesign, I'd love to see: 1. a steeper and slightly taller hill, so that the first drop can happen sooner 2. in the extra room allotted by the first drop nearer the station, an El Toro-style negative G hill could be installed. High banking up, quick transition over and ejector air, and a steep drop out. Then this hill could enter the existing low-lying negative g floats. If the first drop and hill are designed correctly, the trains could hit the two bunny hills at exactly the same speed and continue the rest of the ride as it used to be. 3. a double up into the helix 4. No trims at the top, but with retracking and new trains, the lateral G's in the helix that give way to positives as it banks inward could be more comfortable.

They're starting to go taller! Hopefully they get more bents up there before a big gust of wind comes and rips those bents to the ground! As of 2:38 pm Central time.

End of day Monday. Lower half of overbank structure's track complete.

Maybe it was a rare experience, which makes me feel better/look forward to ride it again. I'd always imagined Raptor being great and instead it was running like a Vekoma SLC. I rode in the second or third week of august, 2012. Perhaps it was getting some maintenance attention at the end of the summer rush/beginning of fall. But given that the park is only open 6 or 7 months a year I dont see why it (a b&m) would require attention. As for Mantis, Riddler's Revenge is leaps and bounds better and its essentially the same ride. Maybe it needs new trains?

I haven't finished my list yet and maybe this deserves to be in the Cedar Point discussion and not here, but I will share anyway: I have Raptor and Mantis at the bottom because I've decided from experience that Cedar Point does not take care of their B&M's AT ALL. Coming from the perspective of somebody who lives near SFGAm, where all of our best rides are B&M's that do not show signs of aging at all, raptor and mantis were terrible. Mantis' breaks all over the place to reduce roughness only made it worse by creating odd laterals and head banging. And when I rode Raptor recently, it was running with 7 cars instead of 8, essentially killing the train's momentum and again, creating all sorts of miscalculated elements, like forceless bumpy helixes. I suppose they throw more money at the maintenance of their Intamin's because they are more complex and are aging well. But I've never met a set of B&M's so disappointing and rough I never imagined that it was possible for their coasters to be let go like that.

American Eagle looks STUNNING. I took it for granted while I grew up in Gurnee and frequented the park often. But I've never met a classic white woodie that is comperable at any other park. Well, except Colossus at MM. While KI has the Beast, their white racer has nothing on eagle. Rolling thunder is gone from Gadv. You get the point. Its an incredibly huge structure, and a fun ride. Lots of airtime on the drop and first few bunny hills. I should have ridden it more growing up but I was too distracted by the rough ride at the time to appreciate the layout I suppose. As for Goliath, I think we have just one more piece of track to go in that final turn. The right rail has been installed all the way around and connected to the final drop in the twist and shout.

Im sure some idiot just littered on his way into the parks.

The airtime hill is 60 feet tall. It is 105 feet shorter than the top of the lift. If the ride was completely above ground, it would be a 75 foot tall hill coming off a 180 foot drop. So it is by no means small but it is still so significantly shorter than the first drop that it will lose zero speed. I expect it to still hit like that first hop in New Texas Giant right after the first drop, or the one right before the mid-course break run. Look at the air rob gets at :59 and 1:17

Another screen from the youtube video 2/28. Seeing everything BUT the tophat is so fascinating because its such a rare view for us.

New Goliath Insider video-on-site perspective of construction as recent as this morning.

weeee sideways negatives

They all have different things going for them, but the benefits are very limited. The load/uload situation on x-flight is pure misery. There are physiological limits to coaster intensity, so no matter what kind of train it is, they can only make you feel so much. That being said, if the benefits of riding on a wing are the lateral Gs, then really push it to the limits. I feel like on gatekeeper there is all the speed but no real advantage taken of the format. X-flight is really cool because it takes advantage of the disorienting effects not only of wing riding, with a lot of inversions, but it also is doubly disorienting because of the direction changes. literally every time the coaster enters an element, it comes out facing another direction and very likely went upside down as well. You never get your bearings. Its really dizzy while gatekeeper hits all its elements facing one direction its like ohh heres the corkscrew here's the hill here's the chopper. You can see everything coming toward you. The downside of X-flight is that while it does feel really fast given its size, it isn't as fast as gatekeeper. Still shocking that the pace is as good as it is considering its size. Front left row is amazing because you feel negatives, positives, and the direction changes are really disorienting. but i get sooo pissed when I'm on B&M's and the helix is just sobering. Id rather hit a break run than the final helix on Diamondback for example. Best B&M helixe sare on batman the ride. Your face melts right off.

Houston, we have more track in place! Also, the track installed yesterday is closer together. Seems like the right rail was hanging a little low yesterday/over night and now everything is perfectly aligned.

Here's a good psychological one: Did riding roller coasters/hanging out in a theme park too much as a child/teenager make me develop Adult ADHD? Does waiting an hour-tops for an adrenaline rush model behavior so that roller coaster "junkies" crave instant gratification/a pick me up and are less capable of committing to longer term goals, like an education or learning something? Have I, for example, grown impatient because of years of running around Six Flags? Similar question could be posed about video games or concerts for example.. anything that is instantly rewarding or amusing in modern society.

My final contribution to this discussion tonight is to address the structural changes. To those of you upset that the structure is not traditional wood, and that it'll somehow lose some novelty, consider this: No wooden coaster on earth has a structure like this. Only two steel coasters I can think of have a relatable lift structure, Skyrush and Intimidator, Millenium force maybe, but even those are missing some qualities that make this totally unique. The lift is going to look like an old iron railroad bridge, and the supporting arch in the middle is a zero G STALL... that will leave you upside down for 3 seconds. You'll essentially be riding the inside of a floater hill. That's never happened before either. FINALLY, nobody seems to have brought this up so I will. Refer back to the renderings to see for yourself: That giant, boxy steel structure supporting the zero g stall is NOT directly above the track. Between the two main lift towers, there is only 5 or 6 pieces of steel from which the wooden track will be connected. The track will literally be hanging off the side of the support structure. Take a look at the aerial views and the picture of the first drop from behind the overbank/twist and shout. The supporting archway will be directly under the lift, and the track is running alongside it. This is unprecedented. You can say, okay, there is B&M track that runs a hundred feet before passing another support, but steel track is all one piece. Wood track, even when prefab, is made of hundreds of separate pieces. It will be safe and structurally sound, but the illusion of danger is far greater in this case than if this were to be steel. Because of that added fear tactic, yes, my opinion is that the new structural renderings really DO improve the ride.

Out of boredom and curiosity I quickly threw together on photoshop a graphic just to demonstrate what I think the final height might look like. The overbank tophat is 125 feet, and the inside of the last turn is 60, while the twist and shout and dive twist area each about 65. Assuming that the first round of bents are 60 feet, I doubled them using the clone stamp tool and added a bit of wiggle room. They already have a shorter set of bents on top of the original 60 foot bents, and in normal construction cam shots, you can see the separation.. there's a bit of a gap. I'm guessing that stack is about 20 feet tall and we will see 1 more round of those shorter bents and then 20 feet of a modified structure supporting and wrapping around the track at the top.

The highly visible track that you see that was installed today and yesterday, to the right, is the second exit from the tunnel. It will not be under ground as long as the first drop track and will emerge sooner into the structure. They did, however, also install some of the track for the first exit from the tunnel into the overbank top hat. That structure is only about half its final height so we wont see that top hat finished for about a month I'm guessing. In this attachment I have colored red the existing track, as well as the steel pieces that future track will be attacked to. It was more visible yesterday so either this screenshot above was in unfriendly lighting or they lifted more wood into place that is making it less visible.