AndrewRnR

It is probably part of a larger deal - Ecolab manages all types of chemicals from in the kitchens for dishwashing to housekeeping. When I used to work at a Disney resort they did the pools as well - as in they provided chemicals and support.

^ The people redoing the hotel wouldn't be the same people as the one getting the rides ready.

Now granted this was several years ago but seems to still apply today but what I heard from some trusted sources at the park is the budget for ride testing has been slashed drastically. Rides used to start cycling in early April and test for weeks. There always was a charity mini-golf tournament a week before the park opened and I remember always seeing every major ride testing non-step. From what I heard is the pre-opening was slashed big time in the mid-2000s and the park has suffered since. A large amount of seasonal employees used to process in at beginning of April. But really... there is a difference between mechanical issues and rides literally still sitting in pieces. I used to go every opening day and besides an usual downtime here and there things were always open and ready. Then literally it was night and day when a new CFO showed up and things haven't been the same despite that CFO leaving. I'm a huge CP fanboy but I refuse to make the trip up there from Florida until a few weeks into the season - I've been burned too many times.

Great move and huge surprise. Though can't say what I'm more surprised by: that SEAS got him or that he left Herschend.

And also when it opened... the trains didn't have upstop wheels (just upstop bars), the trims were in a different place (top of third hill) and the pretzel had a slightly different profile. It is a great ride - probably my favorite in the park. But more so than probably any other coaster it has its good days and its bad days. Sometime I get off swearing I'll never ride it again, other times I think no other coaster in the world comes close.

Thanks for sharing - finally nice to see some photos of the finished product as it feels like it has been under construction forever! Seems to have both a classic and modern vibe at the same time. Plus the location is great - unlike Bob Carr you can actually grab a drink or food at some really nice places all within walking distance.

^ And to add to that point it is a good time to remind everyone that Tony even tweeted don't take the animation to heart - it is there for illustration purposes only. Not to beat a dead horse but my point was that the design is not lacking anything or has kinks. It would be more so park preference to add the trim (such as how MF has trim brackets but CP hasn't elected to add them) not a design issue by B&M. I'm saying the trims are usually there to compensate for changing in weight of trains, weather - stuff that has nothing to do with any design "flaws." (Sure there may be a case here or there when there was a design issue but not in the Mantis case).

I'd bet money that if the trim was invisible and didn't make any noise most wouldn't even know it was there. Anyone ride Mantis pre and post trim? I have! And it is better with the trim. You get nice little hang time in the first loop. Or Cedar Fair decided to add the trim and Kentucky Kingdom decided they didn't want one on Chang - most likely the reason had nothing to do with a "kink" in the design. Sure there may be some rides where trims are used to compensate for design "flaws" (Goliath/Titan I think could be argued as an example, but really is it a flaw that the ride is so intense or just a park looking for guest comfort?). But most of the time they serve other purposes such as ensuring each ride is the same no matter the wind/weather or train weight - a purpose having nothing to do with any design issues.

Yes and no. I'm sure he takes his own brand image seriously and there would've been licensing fees involved. He probably doesn't want to be known as the guy who just puts himself out there. And then there is the story that has been around forever that he was tossed from the park back in his high-school days... can't imagine that left a good feeling in his mind.

That could've been the plan but according to the park today it was Lebron's decision to not use his name on a coaster.

Mantis isn't open on Halloweekends Fridays. As for the tweet re: tomorrow I wouldn't be surprised to hear the last two weeks of the season it goes from being Mantis to King James then something else next year.

Mantis as we know it is closing forever. Just like when you hear XYZ restaurant is closing forever but something else opens in the same place, using the same building, and infrastructure when really just menu and decor changed. Most (if not all) years it has been closed on the Fridays. Usually on the Friday only a handful of rides are open. Nothing new, so I wouldn't read into it.

I'm a long time big fan of the park and have been going regularly since the late 80s. I can see where some of the criticism is coming from - I think with any park (and we see this happen a lot with Disney) when you are a big fan you become super critical and for some reason always remember the past to be better than the present (opposite of grass is always greener on the other side I guess). Can't say I don't feel that somewhat with current Cedar Point but with every nit-picking thing I could name that I feel has changed for the worse something equally as important has been added (up until a few years back you couldn't pay with credit cards in most F&B locations!). I get what you are saying but to be fair... word around the camp fire is that the park didn't plan on removing Wildcat when it did. It was actually printed on park maps, the ride crew was hired, and then it failed state inspection a few weeks prior to opening and they decided to get rid of it. Probably didn't have many years left anyways.

^It isn't shocking that Cedar Point lost if you ever been to Europa. I'm a huge Cedar Point fan but Europa is up there with Disney/Universal in quality/theme/food/ride experience if not above in some cases.

My final guess: It could be multiple things but main attraction - a permanent of sorts haunted attraction.

Not to sidetrack the conversation back to roller coasters currently operating.... Headed to the park this Friday - I'm expecting pretty good crowds since it kicks off the holiday weekend. I know back in the day it was always "run to X2 first" - is still that the recommended thing to do? Or do you go to Full Throttle/Green Lantern first? I was thinking X2 then Green Lantern. (And no, I'm not thinking FlashPass as I just want to get in ride the few rides I haven't been on and X2 and get out).

I always wondered that too then I worked a Disney for a year several years back and part of the opening procedures every morning for the ride was to take a measuring tape to the height sticks and check their height. I was surprised they took that much effort to ensure they are right - I doubt other parks do.

Didn't work on my desktop but on my iPhone it is fine. So I recommend switching to mobile (though it is iPhone on WiFi).

Service and quality aside is this a surprise? Most of the SF parks are only in daily operation for maybe 35% of the quarter they reported and two of the larger parks both had rides that were suppose to open but didn't. Cedar Fair also admits their attendance is down too. I feel like it is one of the other - the final Shapiro years saw focus shift to quality and family rides. Now it is back to throw up big rides and hope people will come. (For what its worth I've visited a few dozen parks this season and some of my best experiences have been at Six Flags parks and my worst experiences have been at Sea World and Cedar Fair parks. Maybe I'm lucky? For example, my friend couldn't get into Cedar Point with his platinum pass from another park because they said "our computers aren't connected" and did nothing to help him.)

I feel like every few years the Mantis rumor comes up and we go into details on why you can't just swap trains - as the ride is designed based on the rider's heart location - going from standing to sitting position may (and would) change some forces. As for attendance - the crowds of been more spread out hence why the "feel" of less crowds. Cedar Point has had roughly the same attendance for the past 20+ years (highest attended year was 1994) but back then the park closed around Labor Day. The park has slowly extended operating season and with their Halloween event growing in quality the crowd shifts to the fall. Same attendance numbers & longer seasons means crowds are more spread out. Whereas Saturdays in July used to be the busiest days of the season now it is Saturdays in October (if weather is nice).

It isn't as easy as changing the trains - B&Ms are designed to around the center (or heart) of a rider vs of the train (like how I believe Arrow designed their rides). Meaning if you switch the trains you are potentially putting the riders through all types of different forces. Would those forces be small or too big to make the switch? I'm not sure - but I don't see it happening. (And yes I know Arrow has done it before in reverse.. but that didn't turn out good!)

Looks like I just got out in time! As I was leaving they were closing part of the parking lot as it was flooded. Coastermania was great! I've been going for over 15 years and this was one of the best! Just two thoughts: - Millennium Force! Wow! I'm in the "it's fun but forceless" camp but it was hauling yesterday (even in the morning) by night ERT it had been running for 16/17 hours and I don't think I've ever see it run faster. The hill next to station was ejector air as was the return hill from the island (not as powerful but not the usual just floater). Am I crazy or did anyone else sense it was running really fast? Like I said even in the morning it was flying - you can always tell by how fast it hits the final brakes. - Why are enthusiasts so ungrateful? This is one (if not the only) event that is FREE but all I heard was complaining all day. From the long line in the morning (it happens every year but park knows how to handle and push ppl through) to numerous people screaming at MF ops during ERT because they were doing their job and pulsing the line to the station. The poor ride OP ran off all upset - one chick said "let's just push are way through this is crazy she is preventing rerides!" Mind you the line was only 2 mins long... And the amount of people complaining about lines or lunch on twitter was disappointing. Back in the day it was some ERT and hot dogs for lunch now it's tons of events and full ribs for lunch with a case of free swag - hopefully the few doesn't ruin it for us. Again props to the park - been going to event since late 90s and they always do a great job!

I wouldn't worry about the clearance issue to much - it happens. Cedar Point cut out part of the support on Millennium Force mid-year in 2000 and the ride had no downtime for that. Basically I don't think it will be a major hold up.

I'm not sure where all the numbers about number of cycles/hours needed are coming from - but I don't think those are the norm of new rides. Take Lightning Run for example - it certainly didn't have 200 hours of testing prior to opening. I know here in Orlando the coasters at FunSpot opened a day or two after the first test runs.

Interesting story - not saying he isn't telling the truth but I was there that day (which ironically was Maverick's opening day so several media outlets were already there). The ride was running three trains and it happened at the back of the ready brakes where a train was completely stopped - not the station. Here is a few threads on different sites with first hand reports and news clippings: http://pointbuzz.com/Forums/Thread/20997.aspx?page=1 & http://www.thepointol.com/board2/viewtopic.php?t=9017&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15&sid=db39e17261bb8d64c66c5d97ecec42e4 It was closed for a few days then ran only one train for a few weeks. Ever since the rain policy at CP changed to be much more strict.