NYTrojan

There's always the super flat, like Maxx Air, that Giant Huss Frisbee at Cedar Point. Those draw a crowd their first year out.

I remember one day when I simply said to myself "No. Nobody is cutting in front of me today for any reason" I was threatened with violence twice in line for the first ride of the day. People run and run and run to get to the ride, leaving friends and family behind, and then try to get you to let the rest of their group pass you by. It got to the point where the confrontation was ruining my day more than the line cutting. ah well... It is what it is. For some reason SFMM is an absolute magnet for the dregs of LA. in an attempt to get this back to Terminator, what have the lines been like during the week, and especially today? I'm considering going by for my first ride tomorrow and am curious as to what the weekend terminator traffic is like now that Memorial Day is over

What does it say about me that even though I saw the Terminator Movie and wasn't terribly impressed (I'd give it a B-) I still want it to do really well because of the work Magic Mountain has put in here?

Do you mind if I ask how many people you are allowing to register? Your events are super popular and ERT for one ride (even if others are open, you know where folks will flock) won't really mean a lot as far as the lines are concerned if the same number of folks who went to West Coast Bash go to this. Not saying there aren't other fun parts to the event, just wondering what kind of lines to expect. Thanks.

I agree entirely. I'm not trying to start a battle here like what happened with the locker debate... After all: Buying your way to reduced lines is nothing new to Six Flags, and if anything Qbot is MORE fair than the old flash pass system which certainly WAS a 'cut the line' item. It's just an interesting topic to me... really because I'm not sure which way I go on the issue. People who use these things don't bother me, but I do understand where people are coming from when they get upset at them too.

I think you misunderstand what I mean about the line being extended. I know that you don't get to jump directly to the head of the line like you did with the old flash passes... but the idea is that if you are in line for a ride, you can't be in line for any others. If you use Qbot, you can technically be in line for 2 rides at once. You have twice the impact on ride lines in the park at that particular moment... which does make them longer for the folks that don't have the system. Let's use an oversimplified example. 100 people in a park. 20 of them have Qbot. 2 rides. People like them evenly. Ignoring trains there are 50 people in each line. 10 of them use Qbot for ride 1, 10 use Qbot for ride 2. This makes ride 1 and ride 2 each have a queue of 60 people (50 real ones, and 10 qbot virtual queuers)... which extends the lines 10 people each. Each person without Qbot needs to wait for 120 people, when they would have waited for 100 people. That's how it is at their expense. People without the Qbot system wait in longer lines because those that do have it get to double their impact on lines in the park. Then when you get into gold members, those folks can skip a certain portion of the line, which increases their line impact further. In our example above, if 20 people have qbot and 10 of them have the gold version, the day starts with the 60-60 example, except after 30 have gone through, the qbot golds will have a ride time available, adding 5 more to each ride. If the ride processes 50 people an hour, under normal circumstances, everybody would ride both rides in 2 hours. Under all 20 'Qbot normal' circumstances, non qbot folks would get to ride both rides in 2 hours and 24 minutes. In the qbot gold scenario, normal folks get on both rides in 2 hours and 32 minutes (roughly) Like I said, I see both sides of the issue... I stand beside the idea that if you pay more you should get more... but the math definitely works out against the folks who choose not to buy fast passes. Their lines are longer than they would have been without any such system.

It's funny... I see both sides of the argument. People who pay more deserve more... I remember standing in line for a Churro at Disneyland and the gal in front of me bought 9 of the things. Had a freaking Churro bouquet. She apologized for taking so long. My response was "You paid 3.50 for each of those... you apologize to nobody"... but on the other side of the coin, I think that Six Flags takes for granted the little things that can really turn a person off to the park. People get really upset about these things. Yes there is a difference in how rich and not so rich people are treated... but folks don't like being reminded all day long at a place where they're supposed to be having a highlight day of these differences. And they REALLY don't like being reminded by being asked to stand aside while the people with fatter wallets take your place. I mean how would you feel if you were waiting at In N Out and a guy jumps up to the counter and offers the gal behind the counter 20$ for your burger? So to be honest I'm split on the issue myself... I've taken advantage of it, and I've been burned by it too. But no matter how I feel about it, I understand that there are other people who get really upset by it and I just don't think that it is a good idea for parks to go about upsetting any of their guests.... but hey, that's some serious scratch they're getting for those QBot systems so there's obviously a lot of people willing to shell it out! What blows me away is that with Qbot, Six Flags prices get pretty darned close to Disneyland ones and actually exceed it for single folks. (40 per person + 32 for Qbot = 72. Disney ticket = 70)

I agree with just about everything you said Rob, except that last bit. The one difference, and it's a big one, is that the benefit comes at other people's expense. When someone jumps in front of line for you, they extended your wait. That doesn't happen in any of your other examples, with perhaps a slight exception of how first class travelers get their own line and board the plane first (and don't tell me you haven't seen the sour looks from folks watching the big money people board the plane first) Heck, I once saw a comedy bit... a candid camera type thing... where they did this at a grocery store. The guy jumps in front of a woman with a cart full of groceries because he is a 1st class club member and they can do that. Needless to say the woman was more than a little upset. I have to say that under the old fastpass system I always felt a little guilty as I passed everybody by. Not so guilty that I'd spend 2 hours waiting for Tatsu, but guilty non the less

They say there will be a 'Discount' I asked around yesterday and nobody seems to know how much they will be discounted. Given last year they said you'd get into Fright Fest for free and that didn't happen (I'm actually surprised they got away with that) I wouldn't hold your breath hoping for anything amazing.

I both agree and disagree with you. Let me explain. 1. I don't like the practice of selling cuts in line 2. I do think it makes good business sense. Let me elaborate: The free market argument satisfies number 2... there ARE people willing to pay for it. You are seeing them line up here against you. As long as people are willing to shell out their money it makes good BUSINESS sense to take it. That said, it doesn't always make good sense on the whole. The free market argument does not say that you have to like or even accept the fact that they make the product available. Let me use an over the top example: I'm sure there are people who would pay for products from the gift shop that had explicit language on it. You can't just say "It's a free market... if people are willing to pay for it, they should get it" because that sort of thing doesn't have a place in the park. The question here is whether a park really should allow people to buy their way to the head of the line. I have been on both sides of this (having watched people jump in front of me and having jumped in front of people with something I purchased) and it definitely breeds contempt between guests in park. It creates bad feelings and sometimes out right anger... very rarely do people ever act on these things but they are remembered when folks go home for the day. I personally don't think it's a good idea for a park that is trying to ingratiate itself to families but it is what it is and it's obviously made six flags money at other parks.

Took a spin around the loop at Magic Mountain this Sunday as well. Overall a really good experience, except for some issues with X2. While the line was open, they were testing the ride until around 11:00 or so. It finally opened and after 2 trains went through it broke down. Now, I know they can't do anything about the ride breaking down, but this is the first time that 1: The ride wasn't tested and ready to go by the time the gates open and 2: That they let people stand in line for a ride that was still going through block testing. It reopened later in the day with single car operation, which I'm sure you can imagine resulted in a very very very slow line (Wouldn't have waited in it myself but had an out of state friend who had never been to SFMM) Apart from that, real solid day at the park. The rest of the lines were VERY thin and, most surprising, the ride ops were engaging, friendly and fun. It was actually RARE that you got the traditional monotone "Hands and arms inside the vehicle" ride op. Their enthusiasm was genuine, not contrived. Singing into the mic, playing with the guests, etc. It makes a difference when the people you're interacting with seem like they're having fun too. Very Cedar Point-ish and it has me excited for the future of the park. This is one of the greatest improvements they could have made to the park and I can only hope it sticks. One ride op on Colossus (working it something between 1:00 and 1:30 ) was so good that I stood in line at guest relations for 20 minutes to make sure I got a compliment in for him. Other positives: It seems like they've cleaned up (A little anyway, that cop car is still pretty sad) the batman theming and they have the old freeway soundtrack playing there again. Not only that but perhaps they've renovated the train or something but I swear it was running faster and smoother than the last dozen times I've been on it. I mean it was FLYING. Maybe just my and my guest's perception but I'd bet that they've done something recently. The grounds were clean, which we've now come to expect, but the park can't be thanked enough for finally making it happen. Got a peek at the whole QBot setup. No word (nobody I spoke with knew) what the discount would be for Extreme play pass holders... My wallet hopes that it'll be at least the amount they used to charge for fast passes, but somehow I doubt it.

No pics, but I was there yesterday (Sunday) and no cement. Some new Popsicle sticks though.

All 23 pages in one post! Ready? GO! It's going to suck, it's too short. It's going to suck, it's not big enough The terminator theme doesn't fit a woodie. How can you judge, it hasn't been built yet? Hey at least they're trying to theme it. Complainers suck. Complaining about Complainers sucks (the GNU is Not Unix argument) Lockers suck. (Made you look!) Seriously... I never thought the dude making a little microsoft paint diagram of how he thinks the area should be built would be the person to contribute the most to this topic. Sooooo on that note, what do you think they'll do to theme the area? Most big installations have meant something. With Batman they made the Gotham City Backlot. Riddler = The big mind control thing from Batman 3, some statues, and the ? topiary. Superman = Cave of Solitude and the whole S logo plaza. Do you think they'll do a similar thing with the ride queue? Do you think it'll extend out into Psyclone Bay? Even a little? I was very impressed with what they did with the X line. It's not exactly themeing, but it is a welcome addition to the line.

Okay, here's an idea. The ride COULD fit the terminator theme. Bear with me. Think of the new Terminator movie, now think of it not from the machine side but from the human's side. That's a Post Apocalyptic society. Things are going to be run down, broken, and made from whatever materials can be found. Now in my head that leans more towards scrap metal than wood, but it fits just a little better. A stretch I know.... but it's slightly less mind numbing if you think of it that way. As for the ride, I love the ride but I think Magic Mountain has their work cut out for them convincing the public it is new for a few reasons. 1. Never underestimate the Stupidity of the GP. We all know this. 2. How much cred did they lose (unfairly) the way they marketed X2 with the GP? think about point 2 for a second. How many GP do you know that talk about it like it's a different coaster from X1? How many times have you heard the GP at the park wondering where X1 is, where they can ride it? It was obvious to you and me from day 1 that X2 was a second try on X1, but I've been AMAZED how every time I go to the Mountain I hear yet another person complaining that they thought X2 was a brand new ride. Do you think those same people are going to realize once they get in the park and see a wooden coaster in the same spot as Psyclone that it's a new ride? I'm with Rob on this one. They're going to need to be VERY explicit in how they market this ride. The tagline might need to be "Terminator: It's Not Psyclone!"

^^ Missing the point entirely. I'm not defending 14 pages of locker arguments. I thought I made that clear when I said I'm attacking the stance the mods have taken with regards to off topic posts. They say they'll remove them, but they aren't really. They're only removing those that they don't like. They advertise the ones that they do. They impose their judgment of what is funny enough to be off topic yet can stay on the board. It's their board and it is up to them to censor it as they see fit, but to say that they are removing a post because it is off topic is not honest because they are leaving plenty of very off topic stuff around (and even taking part in it). For the record, I'm not saying things should be cut at all. I am of the laissez faire mindset. More voices, more opinions = more interesting discussion. Lately it's been feeling like the mods are only interested in opinions they agree with.

Unimportant is an opinion not shared by all. Interesting and funny is an opinion not shared by all.... which is a good thing, many voices and many opinions is a good thing. I'm not trying to stop their fun, but I am using it an example of how they may be trying to stop others. How do we know when the moderators will find something off topic "funny and interesting" and when they won't? The "I'm Gay" page is as off topic as anything here, but it became front page material. What stuff will others of us find interesting and funny but never get to see because the moderators found it off topic and cut it? I don't have a problem curtailing threads that get out of control. It did go on far too long. All I'm saying is after getting our hands slapped for going off topic, it is pretty hypocritical for the moderators to take part in this one. The policy Jahan should have stated is apparently "We'll be pruning off topic posts, but only those that we don't like or don't agree with. It's your board, and your thread, do with it what you will... but you run the danger of limiting the board to one voice and one opinion. Drink the kool-aid or leave. (edited for clarification)

The Predator at Darien Lake. That's the only roller coaster on the planet that I refused to ever ride again because it was so painful, and I'm a SFMM Psyclone and Cedar Point Meanstreak vet. Those are smooth as silk compared to Predator at DL

^^ This counts as a SFMM update and won't be deleted. Neither will a full page of "I'm Gay" Mention the lockers (that are actually IN the park) however....

I guess what I'm trying to say is that hiring young won't be a problem if there are significant bonuses for good work and penalties for bad. Kids aren't self motivated but that doesn't mean they can't BE motivated. While the kids deserve blame, those that manage them deserve it more for not holding them accountable.

But these sorts of staffing problems (People calling in sick, etc) belong to every park. Disney, Knotts, Cedar Point, hell even other Six Flags parks... but I've never seen anyplace with the problems Magic Mountain has. That said, I HAVE had excellent service at Magic Mountain. The older fellow seat checking Goliath the last time I was there practically sprinted everywhere. The problem is that these efforts are few and far between. I don't think you can blame it on kids either. It's up to their management to both motivate them AND hold them accountable. Cedar Point is mostly staffed by young folks and not only are they good at keeping the lines moving, they are cheerful and friendly. I HAVE recently started seeing more character from Magic Mountain... "The One Loop Wonder" at revolution, "Hi-yah!" on Ninja, and "Have a Magic Day" are all great starts, but they are often droned out in monotone... and for goodness sake, the people who work with the costumed mascots (The folks in six flags garb, not the mascots themselves) have GOT to be more friendly. You can't have such a killjoy standing around Bugs, you just can't. The bottom line is kids will do what you let them get away with, but they will also be cheerful and fun if you encourage them properly. While cheesy, the kids who work the lines at the gate at the beginning of the day are exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah their act is goofy and dorky, but that's what you need to set the tone for the day and children LOVE it. I don't see why that kind of enthusiasm can't work its way to the rides.

Took a turn myself at Magic Mountain this Sunday. Lots of good, some bad. here's what we hit: X2: First ride of the day. Had some significant problems with line cutters... People who run to the ride, and then pull the rest of their group up to them. I like to ask people who are standing up waiving for people to come to them "Do you need to wait for somebody?" Later in the day security was holding people up at the main gate, handing out tickets, making sure groups were together. Much better. The first time we rode, the speakers were VERY quiet. You couldn't hear any music on the ride. This was better the second time I rode. I'm pretty sure one train had the music cranked, and one had it very quiet. Definitely better when you can actually hear it. On the, well nasty side after the line split on the side that goes under the ride and up a stair case by the entry road, there is a ride support that appears to have become a gum magnet. it's getting pretty nasty and definitely gets the attention of everybody in line. I love that there is a grouper for X, and they seem to get the job done but just barely. Different girls each time, but both seemed pretty lost. After X we hit up Revolution for the new trains. Much smoother, and the 'patriot' paint job is absolutely fantastic. Very very VERY well done. Even the 10 year old kids in front of us were super excited to see that they were getting on the "new hotness" train. I'm telling you Magic Mountain... there's a gold mine to be made in retro merch. Something must have changed between Saturday and Sunday because the Goliath Sunday crew was by FAR the best of the day. Only two trains were running, but that didn't stop them from just powering through people. This one guy in particular, older fellow with some gray in his mustache and very heavily muscled with his sleeves rolled up, was just FLYING checking the restraints. Seemed like he was trying to make it a challenge with the younger fellow on the other side who wasn't exactly rising to the challenge, but was still adequate. Well done all the way around. One thing I did notice, and felt bad for the fast pass op: The line didn't leave the Goliath station, so there was no reason to use a fast pass... A woman at the front of the fast pass line was really letting the poor ride op have it. Apparently she thought she would get to the front of the line, and having paid $75 for her and 2 kids to stand in the entire ride line wasn't going over easy with her. I think the problem here is communication on Six Flag's part. Fast Passes are very expensive now... and while everybody here knows how they work and just how far they get you, not everybody shelling out the big bucks for them does. Particularly families... which is the group Six Flags is trying to get back into the park. When people buy the things don't tell them they get to 'skip the lines' Tell them they get to skip the majority of the line, joining the line at the queue station. The things aren't cheap... people buying something that isn't what they thought it would be only breeds resentment. You want them to be thrilled with what the fastpass got them, so they buy them again in the future. Scream was running 3 trains.... though I'm not sure why. On a busy July weekend day the ride was a walk-on. A significant portion of each train went out empty. Nice to see the effort, but just seemed like overkill to me. Tatsu on the other hand, had exactly the opposite problem. 1 train. Forget 2 trains on 2 stations, only one train at all, with a completely full line. I can't imagine how painful that wait must have been. I believe someone else here has described it as 'soulcrushing" Batman was also running only one train, but that's a little more forgivable. While Goliath wins the award for the best run ride of the day, Riddlers was a disaster. They were running 2 trains, but were stacking badly. Part of this seemed to be that each time they needed to unlock a train because somebody sat down. I wonder if they should invest in some signs to let people know that this is a standing roller coaster. Coaster nuts might laugh but it's obvious the GP doesn't get it. Not only that but the queue station was a madhouse. The grouper at the bottom of the stair case needs some way to know that things are getting out of hand up there. You all know how packed that area can get and how unpleasant it can be in there when you're packed shoulder to shoulder with a few hundred of your closest friends.... in the middle of a metal box in the desert. Not only that, but I can't imagine it's safe. ... what would happen if there was some sort of fire emergency? Finally, we caught the Batman show. To which I can only say that I think the folks here calling it 'horrible' have been spoiled by Disney and the level of show that Disney puts on. This is as good a show as I've seen a six flags put on. Sure it is cheesy, hokey, and all that... but that's what these things ARE. There's a certain goofy aspect that is part of the deal. It's part of the charm of these things. You're supposed to get a giggle out of how cheesy certain parts are. There are some parts that don't really work (The ninja stars) but for the most part you've got acrobatics, pratfalls, a big custom car, a few explosions and water effects.... that's pretty darn good for a theme park stunt show. I agree that they aren't for everybody, but as far as these shows go, this one isn't bad by a long stretch. You guys should have seen the motor bike one at Darien Lake... now that was painful.. All in all, not a bad trip. Some things I wasn't thrilled with, some things I really liked, and one employee who was a shining example of how you'd like to see things go.

On Rev's paint job (and I do hope the SFMM folks pick up on this )Of course I love it, but I'm a coaster geek.... so I showed it to my wife. Someone who grew up in New England and has no emotional ties to Magic Mountain or any nostalgia for the park. Her reaction? "THAT'S AWESOME!!! I want to go! That logo on the front of the train... they need to put that on a shirt. I'd buy that in a heartbeat" Just some food for thought. 70s retro is in and in a big way right now. I know down here in San Diego the ugly brown/yellow jerseys from way back when outsell the new flashy stuff and they cost more. In Florida Epcot is bringing back the Epcot center logo and it's selling like hot cakes. People would be all over. I see 'Frankie Says Relax" shirts everywhere (yes that's 80s but you get the idea) Bring back the old Magic Mountain logo on merch. It's hot right now. Oh and my own two cents on the train repaint. Fantastic... the loop across the bumpers is just awesome. I am so impressed to see MM pay attention to the details like this.

Count me as one of the folks impressed with Revolution's makeover. Not only is it good to see another ride get spruced up (Let's count them now shall we? Ninja, Viper, X2 in a BIG way, Revolution, and Gold Rusher's station, the skytower... who else have I forgotten?) but it's fantastic to see that they aren't ignoring 'the little guys'. The small details, and the lesser rides are getting looked at just as much as the big ones. That's just great to see! I know it's been there a while now, but I feel like an extra special 'great job' is due to the fellow who repainted the goldrusher sign. The thing just jumps right out at you. Looks wonderful!

or you can just... not hit Deja vu. It's the only ride I've never ridden at Magic Mountain. I've been a million times and am not even mildly interested in that one. Ditto Wicked Twister at Cedar Point. I've never been a fan of boomerang coasters, and am not thrilled with shuttle coasters in general. I can handle waiting in a line so long as it is moving, but those lines are just soooo painfully slow. Way too much standing around. Is the ride really worth it?

I've spent over 2 hours for Psyclone. With all the switchbacks and that winding path through the trees... I remember seeing an advertisement for next year's Yosemite Sam Sierra Slide on the TVs they had in line about 15 times in that line. I will say this, the ride seemed a lot smoother back then. Maybe it was just that I was younger but I swear it was a great ride back then. By the end though, I wasn't sad to see it go. Kind of an interesting topic: What's the longest time you've spent for a ride you'd never dream of waiting that long for now? For me, Batman and Psyclone are the worst, but I did about 2 hours for Superman once too... I did 3 hours numerous times for X, but that's a ride I think is worth it.