NYTrojan

Keep in mind that at a rock concert very basic fog and fire effects can be installed in a matter of hours. I expect X2s to be better, but they aren't the most difficult things on earth to add.

While I'm not a particular fan of that brand of 'High energy music' I love this idea. In fact, every time I looked up at that bridge over the middle of the loading area I thought "That looks like a DJ Platform at an expensive night club" Even if it was just a few times a year, like how they run colossus backwards every now and then, I think this has some serious potential. Say during the weekend over spring break, and Memorial & Labor day weekends?

Maybe it's just that I'm not a fan of techno, but there is a LOT of it in the park and it gets old fast. If it is your thing I can see where it wouldn't get to you, but unless you're an out and out fan it gets annoying on all the big rides (Riddler, Scream, X). Here's the thing... it's not as if I out and out dislike techno. It's okay... but it's just not what I want to hear for 3 hours on end (One wait in the X line) let alone again and again in other lines. We need some variety.

I'll guarantee you that the person who checks the restraints on the gate side of the train knew someone was standing there. We practically shouted at her "Can I get back in line" She shook her head 'no'. "Can I stand with you?" "Stay where you are" I'll tell you this, we weren't seriously scared or anything, but she was practically hugging that gate back to the line. I have to imagine the light gate is much closer to the train. Can you picture a situation where waving your arm over the gate to the line causes the train not to dispatch? The train didn't leave because they were shuffling folks around to get them to fit in the bigger seats. Perhaps it couldn't have left anyway, but no horn sounded. The Dispatch operator never tried to send it because they were busy moving folks around. Eventually we had half the people in line yelling at them to get her back in line and they opened the gate. I am glad to hear that they have mechanical safety measures to protect people from serious ride op mistakes like this.

To their credit, it wasn't just a lot of money, it was a TON of money. They claimed it was pretty much equal to what they spend on a major roller coaster. That said, I agree that some sort of transportation ride would help... but how on earth can they do it? You'd have to close down huge sections of the park for months on end even if money wasn't an object.

I hit up Magic Mountain this Sunday with my Mom and my wife. Consider this a mini trip report... I have no pictures because I don't bring cameras to theme parks. (Well that's a lie, I bring them to Disney, but not to Roller Coaster parks like SFMM or CP) Observations: Was a great day at the park, not too warm, not too hot. Not too crowded. There was some sort of cheer leading competition that filled in the gaps but for the most part, no real long waits. We got on Tatsu early, which was good because it broke down somewhere in the middle of the day. They did get it running again. Early in the morning they were only running one train on Tatsu and the line grew FAST. We weren't in line long but by the time we got off of the ride the switchbacks were all full and the line still went down out towards the front of rapids camp crossing. Later on in the day they were running 2 trains and using both stations to do it. Really sped things up. I won't get deep into lockergate again, but I will say this: On every locker ride ride but riddlers (We hit Tatsu twice and scream 3 times, riddler once) there was a ton of stuff off on the side of the loading platform. Usually these were things like midway prizes, Basketballs and stuffed animals far too large to fit in a locker anyway, merchandise bags, hats, etc etc. I have my own opinions on this but in an attempt to keep this from turning into another 15 page disaster I'll just ask this: What will SFMM do about the giant plushies they give out at the midway? They simply can't fit in a locker, so even well meaning people get stuck. I didn't see any signs on any of the midway games offering front of the park item pickup (though I did at the merchandise locations), and you can't expect people who won a prize to forfeit riding any locker rides for the rest of the day... they're supposed to be winners right? This will -never- be a problem for me as I don't do midway games and have no place in my house for a 4 foot tall spider man, but I do wonder what the options are. Goliath was running! My favorite ride in the park (outside of X) I was thrilled it wasn't closed like it was Sunday. Colossus was also closed for a part of the morning, but was open by 12:30 or so. Viper was closed for a large chunk of the day, with a train stopped on the lift, but they got it running by the time the day ran out. I have only good things to say about how it was obvious the park kept working on rides in an attempt to get them running eventually. As we were told earlier, Home Depot isn't a sponsor of the parks anymore, but the signs are still everywhere. They've taken what looks like T Shirt Iron on fabric and covered some of the home depot logos with Six Flags logos. These are already peeling. There are plenty that still have Home Depot on them. Boy am I glad I got one extreme (or platinum?) season pass. Parking is $15.00... and Flash Passes are $25.00 for a set of four. Seems steep to me, but since I get one free, the more people they discourage from using the things the better off I am. Some other comments on the state of the park: The Good: The pathways were as clean as I can ever remember. You REALLY notice this. Any concerns that the park was 'putting on it's best face' for us at WCB can be laid to rest. The three point challenge is a hit. I honestly can't imagine dropping 10 dollars on a midway game, but then again I am terrible at basketball. People really seem to love this. Multiple Trains on all rides... even Batman. I can't remember the last time I saw 2 trains running on Batman. The Cyber Cafe really looks sharp. The connection was a little slow, but the place was full and it looks like people are actually keeping the things clean. I realize it is brand new, but at the old SFMM these would have been vandalized by now. I didn't go to the Skytower museum at WCB, but I did yesterday and it is fantastic. Mom, who has gone to MM since it opened absolutely loved it. I have nothing but positive things to say about the museum itself. I would like to make one suggestion: the park needs to make it more obvious that the museum is up there. While we were waiting for the elevator a lot of people came by saying things like "this isn't a drop ride right? It just goes up? Can you do anything more than just look around up there?" Someone even asked if it was an elevator that took you down to the base of the mountain. Usually when we said it was a museum folks got interested and wanted to wait for it too. The moral of the story is the GP doesn't read their maps, but maybe a big 'Magic of the Mountain: A museum dedicated to the history of SFMM" banner or something at the base of the skytower would help. This is far too cool an exhibit for people to miss out on because they can't be bothered to read their maps. Katy's Kettle lives! Perhaps I've just had bad luck or have gone in off seasons to the point where they weren't running it, but it was good to see the little Rapids Camp Crossing kitchen up and serving food. The Bad: People have pointed out to me that there are water fountains all over the park. Paying attention this time, I challenge any of you to find one you'd be willing to put your mouth next to. Fil-THY. The line cutting was out of control. I honestly can't remember a ride we didn't have somebody pushing past us while we waited. Even Goldrusher! I thought that saving places in line "is strictly prohibited and may result in expulsion from the park". Bathrooms. I simply can't wait for the new ones to be put in next year. The 'Gum Fields' you fly over as you leave the Tatsu station and go up the lift have really developed a life of their own. I honestly don't know what the park can do about this aside from cleaning it all the time which may not be feasible. Combine that with the people who absolutely have to spit on their way up the lift and I'm just baffled at how people feel the need to be disgusting all the time. The Ugly: A few issues came up at Scream. In an attempt to synchronize their party, the group ahead of us asked if we would like to take their spot on the next train. Unfortunately the staff member manning the gate had an itchy trigger finger and, as we swapped places in line, started closing the gates. My wife made it to the loading platform but the gates closed on the rest of us. (This happened again to another group, so I know it wasn't just our tardiness... those gates were fast). Being split up wasn't the big deal though, as my wife turned around and tried to figure out what we were to do, the folks who just rode the ride saw that the row was still empty and ran back on. With no seats left, and closed gates my wife didn't have anywhere to go. When she asked a staff member to open the gate so she could get back in line they refused. She was going to have to stand on the loading platform as the train went by. She asked if she should stand in the taped off 'safety square' that the staff stand in, and they said no. Luckily, due to the problem I'll outline below, the train was delayed and enough people in line (folks we didn't even know) started complaining that it wouldn't be safe for her that they opened the gate and let her back in line. On the next train, the other group that got separated acted more quickly than we did and simply got on the train before others could take his seat. The other problem we had was increased loading time due to constantly moving people around on the train. Apparently scream has a few seats modified for larger riders... which is good and all... Universal does the same for the Hulk. The problem is SFMM doesn't mark which rows these are. There should be some sort of banner indicating which rows you should get into if you're heavy. Twice while I was waiting in line they had to pull a group from the front row and send them to the fourth (I believe). You have to feel for the guy who waited extra to get the front, and have to be pulled out in front of everybody when he could have (and should have) tried his luck in the larger seats, and it effectively doubled the load time on two back to back trains. When it was all said and done a solid 12 minutes went by for both of those trains to be loaded. Overall, the park looks better than it has in years. I am very happy that my worst complaints aren't along the lines of "I got on 3 rides today because they were only running 1 train... and I had to trudge through ankle-deep leaf litter to get through the lines" For all the warts that are left to be removed, the park is definitely on the right track.

Hmm, I'm heading to the Mountain tomorrow. If you happen to see Goliath start up again, let me know. It'd be a bummer to have it down tomorrow too! =(

Why did the old management avoid Intamin? Something to do with how they got burned with Superman?

^ They've surprised me with the number of little things (goldrusher's building, Viper's eyes) they have added and fixed though... so it could come sooner than you think. Seems to me the current line of thinking is "I'd rather fix 20 little things that add up to a big difference than one big thing that impacts one ride (like scream's lot). I can't argue with the overall effect. Was just curious if anybody heard anything or not.

I contend that they wouldn't have gone that far, but while we're on the subject of old Christmas lights... does anybody know if there are any plans to bring the lights back to Revolution's loop (or if they're back already?) They really do add something to the falls area of the park.

I'm not asking for anything as major as say "Mythos" at Universal IOA (although that'd be sweet)... I'd be thrilled just to have my Four Winds back. But here's the thing. There must be a reason why it was taken out in the first place. Maybe it is just because the dearth of families in the past few decades killed it, I don't know. Granted unlimited power, money, and resources, here's how I'd reshape the food around Magic Mountain. 1. Move Panda Express up to that little unused picnic table area by Ninja. Asian Takeout makes more sense there. 2. Replace Panda Express with something similar with a Spanish theme. Something like Baja Fresh or (please oh please oh please) Rubios. 3. Is Katy's Kettle still alive? Seems to me it could be revived with a country/bbq type theme. It would fit the area and bbq turkey legs are ALWAYS a hit. It really seems to me that once you hit the rapids camp crossing area the food options take a serious dive. 4. Restore the 4 winds, or replace Laughing dragon with something like a Benihanas or a P.F. Changs. Moderate upscale. Most of these involve updating the theme in addition to bringing in more varied food options. Some of these are more reasonable than others. Both the 4 Winds and Laughing Dragon vanished. There has to be a reason... probably insufficient foot traffic. Still, I wonder if an upscale eating facility with a name people recognize would become a draw for Samurai Summit in and of itself. Just some ideas, nothing I would ever really expect to happen.[/i]

Aw man, the Four Winds, that brings back memories. I MISS that place. Was the best place to go, sit down, and RELAX in the park. There really isn't a place to do that now... Mooseburger is (by design) another loud in your face experience. There isn't anything wrong with that but it is nice to have a quieter place to sit and recharge for a few.

How does it work? There must be some serious prizes, along with some actual chance at winning them for folks to be willing to plunk down 10 bucks on a midway game.

That's kind of the problem: There's no new info right now. It's the lull before the storm if you will. So, in lieu of actual information, new topics to discuss, or anything particularly constructive how about we do the next best thing: WILD SPECULATION! There is not that much time before X2 is opened to the public. With that kind of time left, what do you think they will add to it that hasn't been announced? What do you guess are these 'visual, audio and sensory effects' we've heard promised? How do you think the place will be re-themed (if at all). Tim mentioned that they got some loading ideas from the folks in Japan... that they can't use all of them because they can't reconstruct the station from scratch, but that some things may be adapted for use. What do you think they will change in the station? Look, there's not a lot that is concrete to talk about just now, so lets see how creative we can be instead.

Be careful....I think people are starting to get too sensitive as to what is 'allowed' to be posted now a days. There is a time when a complaint is valid too. Yours about how you weren't being allowed into the park an hour before closing, and over cold donuts, and inattentive or uninterested employees for example. Perfectly valid, and useful to the management of the park. The way I see it is if it is something bad enough that you would warn friends about before they go to the park (possibly impacting a sale through negative word of mouth) then I have to imagine management is interested. There is, however, a difference between outlining a valid complaint and downright bitching. We all have done both and we know when we stretch it too far. That said, just because somebody complains doesn't mean they should be attacked. For my own personal take on the whole food situation, I have to give MM a big thumbs up on a lot of their offerings. I am by no means a vegetarian, but I love that they offer fruit in various locations in the park. I hunted for 45 mins for some fruit at Cedar Point, not wanting a burger or fried chicken on a hot July day before I gave up completely. My only question is (and has been for years) how the heck did they end up with a Panda Express in Baja Ridge? You have all this Spanish theming, Viper, giant cactus plants... and Asian take out. Always makes me do a double take ::Starts debating with self over whether he needs to explain to the group that the last paragraph was a bit of a joke. This is getting too serious::

I am optimistic that X2 will be better than it was before capacity wise, but I doubt that it will load anywhere near 'fast'. My expectation: It will run as fast as Tatsu running 2 trains with 1 station.

Not to be a Pollyanna, but I honestly believe they know, and have a plan for handling this, and every other obvious major flaw in the park. Allow me to explain why: In 2004 I visited MM with a good friend of mine who had, to then, only been to SFNE, Cedar Point, and the Disney Parks. I grew up in Southern California and went to SFMM all the time. I -loved- MM. I openly revolted against my family when they wanted to go to Disneyland because of how much I preferred MM, and you can just forget about Knotts right now. I had left Southern California for college and was on a visit back home with my friend from back east, and boy was I going to show her a park. "A true rival to CP" I claimed. That 2004 visit was one of the toughest days I ever had. I mean this. Eventually I ran out of excuses for the park. I was so disappointed that I contacted Dell Holland (I am pretty sure that's what his name was, though I could be off) about the experience, wondering what could have happened. That all it took was some attention to detail... that all the small things mattered. Disney once said "If we lose our customers by being cheap, it will cost us 10 times as much to earn them back" To his credit he offered me a free return trip, though I never took him up on it. I had been back to the park a few times after that and it was always the same state of disrepair. With that background you should understand how skeptical I was going to WCB. I liked what I had read, but I was not willing to give MM ANY benefit of the doubt. They had to earn it, and I wasn't going to make it easy. I was already preparing my defenses for them to either ignore questions, poo-poo the complaints and say 'that's just how it is and how it has to be to make money', and basically excuse themselves from responsibility. It didn't happen. The folks were open, honest, accepting of criticism to a fault (do the words candy machine mean anything to you), and absolutely bent over backwards to explain as much of their plan as they could and make sure we were having fun. I can't remember how many times someone like Jay said "Are you having a good time?". For the first time in a long time, the staff cares. And they have a plan. We go to parks often, we see things day in day out, and sometimes we get an inflated opinion of our ability to perceive the problems with the park that others are missing. I am as guilty as anybody. This may be due to the fact that the old SFMM never did anything about the problems.... they just let them fester. How could they know about the ugly chipping paint and rotting stations? They never do anything about it. This staff knows. During WCB they went on and listed a number of the problems they have on their list, and what they plan to do about fixing them. That they have years worth of upgrades and only so much money to spend on each one at a time, but they have both a list and a plan. They have fixed so much already that you have to believe they know about the big ones you and I notice. What is exciting to me is that they aren't overlooking the little guys too. Help for Revolution, the repainting and general updates to goldrusher.. These are exciting developments. Do I feel a little sad going up the Colossus hill and seeing the flaking pink-was-red-once-upon-a-time paint? Hell yeah I do. Still, through the improvements both large and small I've seen through my 4 visits so far this season (probably 5 after this weekend... it's a bit of a drive from San Diego) I have to believe that it is on the list. My disappointment is tempered by my faith that in 5 years or so it will be addressed along with the myriad of other issues. Just where on their list does repainting Colossus fall is an interesting question... It would have to be one of, if not the, major updates of the year in which it is done. I can't imagine how expensive it would be to repaint that beast. Please don't take this the wrong way... I am in no way saying not to bring up the things that bother you when you go to the park here... Everyone is very familiar with my stance on the lockers at this point and I won't get into it again. Management has a good finger on the pulse of the community by watching these sites, and we have been granted the rare chance to influence their direction through quality feedback. Comments were made during WCB that 'keeping gates closed' was made a priority through a coaster enthusiast website (I won't get into which one). It's good to let them know what is a problem and, just as important, what they've done that is working and what you really like. In an effort to get this thread turned in a more positive direction, I'll offer one of mine. One small thing I saw that I really liked was the physics competitions a few weeks back. Simple, easy, but well attended and just the sort of thing families with kids would appreciate.

One thing to remember, at WCB they said that they have a different mentality. They weren't going to keep rides around that were in bad condition and were rarely ridden just to say they have X number of rides. If a ride isn't up to the standards of the park, they're going to remove it. Sure, they could have kept Spinout around and only tear it down when they had something to replace it, but it was old, busted, and was negatively impacting the general experience of the park. It seems to me that if they don't plan on keeping it long term, they aren't going to bother fixing it up and instead will get it out of there. I am on board with this. But only if there ARE plans in the future to fill out the park with more quality flats. There is a difference between a carnival quality flat like a scrambler and a theme park flat like the SkyHawk at Cedar Point. Which makes me wonder about the status of the Buccaneer. I'm a firm believer that -EVERY- theme park needs 'the swinging boat' but it is certainly a ride in desperate need of a paint job. [/i]

I agree completely. I am 100% behind the removal of the tilt a whirl and other 'lesser' carnival rides. However I DO think that there are plenty of flat rides you only expect to see at major parks like SFMM. Cedar Point's Maxx Air, and SFNE's Sky Swatter for example. If you consider it a flat, the Houdini rides at SFNE and SFGA are real good family rides that seem to get a strong positive response. It has been a real long time since SFMM had a top quality high tech flat ride.

I understand that you aren't intending to nickel and dime people, and the policy still bothers me. The general public won't understand this and will get -really- ticked about it. I'm all for an increase in general park admission and free lockers. You'd be surprised how little people complain about the ones at Universal even though the ticket prices are comparatively high. That said, I've made my argument and while I don't expect to change any body's mind, I think that it is a valid concern for a healthy number of park go-ers. I will say this: It will definitely impact the number of times I visit SFMM this year. Not being able to carry around a good supply of water, mist bottles, and sun screen for reapplication after water rides pretty much eliminates June and July in Valencia for me. Here's a question: Can I leave my water bottle on top of the lockers, unattended and not locked up, but outside of the station? On a much more positive note: I would like to echo the thanks given by so many others here for everything you HAVE done. I have never seen so many positive turns in this park. The major gripes people have had about Magic Mountain are dropping like flies. "Everything looks so worn down" Bam! Repaint Ninja, Viper, X, Gotham, repave the cracks.. and more to come I am sure. "X is great but you spend 3.5 hours in line on a slow day, and it is guaranteed to break down at least once while you are in line" BAM! a complete multimillion dollar overhaul. "Psyclone is just painful, and I don't get why we have to wait for more people to ride it" Bam! It's gone. With promises of something new and exciting to take its place. I now have faith that the majority of my other concerns will be covered eventually. Am I happy with the lack of flat rides... no. (Well actually I could care less.. .I'm all about coasters but most people I go to the parks with aren't happy about it) But I have 100% faith that this staff knows that the park needs flats and will do something about it. Why? Because they've shown that they know about all of the other issues people aren't happy with and have gone about correcting them one by one. In return, I have (and I suggest everybody else who is happy about the changes should as well) try to make sure people I know KNOW about the changes. Just last friday I had a conversation that went something very much like this: Me: "Oh you went to Disneyland this weekend? Cool... I'm more of a Magic Mountain guy myself, but I like all parks" Them: "Aren't they closing? I thought they closed up actually" and I can't tell you how many times I've heard the "I love roller coasters but I won't go to magic mountain because I'm sick of all the hoods there. Hate fighting against people cutting in line. etc. etc. etc. You've heard it all too I'm sure (and probably thought as much back in the dark days) I really think that it is important that we do as much as we can to correct this... let people know about the changes and fixes. Get some good word of mouth going, not just between us coaster geeks, but with the GP as well. I realize that a lot of what was done for us at WCB was with this in mind: Getting some good publicity. I'm not so naive as to think that SFMM didn't think they would get something for all their generosity. That said, I do NOT see it as any sort of manipulation. It was a "Let's get people to realize just how far we've come" When praise is deserved, you aren't being a corporate shill.

That's the thing though, it's not a dollar. It's a dollar per ride. If I could spend a dollar or even 5 at the front gate and get a 'locker pass' I can use all day I wouldn't have a problem. I don't know about the rest of you, but I tend to be very efficient when I hit a theme park and get between 12 and 15 (depending on lines) rides a day. And yes, by that I mean the major coasters... that's all I ride. That dollar adds up fast. If they're willing to spend the money at each of these parks to have an attendant at the lockers, what's the difference from having that attendant man the cubbies or shelves at the ride exit? SF claims they don't want to add more responsibilities to the ride ops (for good reason) but they've gone and spent the money on an op who has only one purpose: You putting your stuff in a locker. I have 0 problem with the lockers at rides. I just don't see why we should be charged for them like this. I find it silly that I'm going to have to go to SFMM with a pocket full of $1s like I'm going to a strip club to ride the coasters.

Having been a SFMM regular, growing up in the days when a Twicket was actually a good deal, I always made a habit of carrying around a nalgene (or a backpack with two for my group) full of water to help recover from the absolute blast furnace Valencia can be in the middle of the summer. I can not tell you how many times that saved someone who was fading fast. I am immediately opposed to a policy that make it more difficult (or unnecessarily costly) to stay hydrated in that environment. It is shortsighted at best, and I truly find it difficult to believe that there were no other options than to charge for lockers to solve this 'problem' as so many other theme parks have their own solutions. I, for one, will do what I have seen others do. Break my party up. After the riders are done they will run back to the line, retrieve the item from the folks in line, double over the train again to the exit. As this method gains popularity we'll see how much faster the dispatch really is when compared to the shelves near the exit.

^^ To which I respond: Cedar Point. Somehow that park manages to have station side item bins and manages to maintain one of the highest guest satisfaction ratings of any park around. I don't know what magic they work to make sure that this doesn't cripple their park experience, but I suggest Six Flags attempt to find out.

If I had to spend $1 once, and access all lockers all day long, hey no problem. But $12-$15 over the course of the day on all of the rides builds up fast. And remember, that money isn't what the CUP is worth, it is what the SECURITY on the cup is worth. It is the value of the risk associated with your item. Very low on a plastic cup, very high on a cam corder. I'm not leaving my wallet by the side of the station. The money isn't worth the extra security on an item when It isn't worth the reduced risk when compared to leaving it ride-side... and I certainly don't understand why it becomes Six Flag's responsibility to tell me to protect my items. What you suggest is to throw the item away as I'd expect it to be seen as garbage to be collected by collectors. There is a difference between throwing something away and being willing to risk the fact that 30 people ahead of you will not take it. One case you are guaranteeing that your item is gone (throwing it away) the other... well I've never had anybody take my cup. My preference is that my items are still there... The chances are VERY good that they will be. If you want to make pay lockers that is FINE. Just let me choose. If you think this will help ride throughput you are wrong wrong wrong. What will happen (because I saw it happen on riddler) is you end up having people split their parties up. A few stay back for the next train holding the stuff while the others ride. Then the mad dash to hand over the baton as the few who stayed back ride and pass the items to the people who just got off. You add more people and more scrambling to the line process, make it so people can't ride together, and add to the frustration of going to the park. Heck, I don't think those basketballs you can win at the midway games will even fit in those ride time lockers.

Because sometimes those items aren't worth the $1 you spend in securing them. If you want to charge for lockers, ok... but don't require them. Let me choose. If I'm willing to risk my little plastic sports cup, or that basketball I just won at the midway game, what's the harm? Then go ahead and risk it then. Leave it out somewhere - just don't bring it in line. If the things aren't worth the dollar to protect them, then you won't mind losing them - why complain then? Because there's significant more risk in leaving a cup out on top of a bench where hundreds of people go by, rather than on the side of a station where 30 might. Heck I'd expect the cleaning crews to pick it up and throw it away.