budtbum

Tricks and treats does say "family-friendly fall daytime event"- maybe Scare is coming back, if that is a homage to the old sign when things "changed". It was a big money maker at one time. Who knows with the merger with Six Flags, what influence that made too...

Unless there is something else, the only thing I see is they officially announced Tricks and Treats for this year... Short lines for the fall rides.

I was just there- nothing is happening at Snoopy Junction. Track, Station and sign are gone. Just the comic poster of Snoopy wondering if all that sand is necessary. Which has more of an ironic twist now.

I'd say you could do it in a day. Especially if you're mainly interested in the coasters. If you spend a lot of time in the water park it would make it harder to get all the other rides in. But it's doable. Especially if you're there the full day- 10am to 10pm. You probably won't see "everything" in the park , but would be satisfied.

Actually with the completion of Flying Cloud airport expansion, Valleyfair is now clear to build up to 310' anywhere in the park. 320' in some areas. Renegade is over a concrete platform, and they can drive footings like they did for Power Tower, which is extra expense. They just shouldn't go cheap like with Excalibur, as that seems to have caused settling issues. There isn't much else that is physically preventing building. They have even been cleared to build dikes when they were talking water park expansion. I think they may get more bang with a dry ride given the longer operating time per year. But the MOA water park design is known now too, so they could do some things different at VF. They would have to weigh what area has the longest lines and most customers.

They can play revenue games; If there is a larger crowd, there are more Fast Lane sales. At what point do people pay, or walk away and how many? I happened to be driving by Valleyfair Saturday morning at about 10:30am. They had at least a half mile long line- stop and go line of cars- to get into the park. I don't hardly ever go by on Saturdays, so I'm not familiar on the line size they normally get then in the mornings. But I haven't seen lines like that since the Haunt last year. Could be a draw from the monster trucks opening weekend, and/or because it's getting into the last few weeks of warm weather on a Saturday. I don't really know. But I do know several people/families that are starting to do things like go to Lost Island. Their water park is at least as good as Valleyfair's and in some ways better. Now that they are adding dry rides- a couple decent coasters and such, it's becoming even more of a park. People can get up at 7, get there and into the park by 11, easy. Spend the day, and be back home by 10pm. Yes it's a few hours in the car, but less waiting time in the park. (it's a relatively pleasant drive too) And here's the kicker- Since Valleyfair is the only major park in the metro area, many kids are there in the spring on a school trip already. Go again with the family? That's for the crowd who's more budget conscious. The ones with more money are wondering if they want to spend it for a Fast Lane at Valleyfair or go to a larger park. Valleyfair is like, "we wore out the Looping Starship and replaced it with Delirious..." I think the Monster Trucks is a great event- As long as they are getting enough people and Fast Lane sales, and a possible $40 a head for the Trucks, they don't have to make major investments like they did in the early 2000's. But at a lack of investment eventually builds up their own competition too.

I get what your saying, and largely agree- especially the statement "it's not CF's standard procedure to make major investment at parks that are doing just fine financially regardless of competition." I also understand that the websites have a standard design theme too that includes places to stay. But I will say that Minnesota and Valleyfair is a different market as well. For example the "amusement park mecca" is supported because it's also close to major population centers. Washington D.C, New York etc. Even Philadelphia alone is nearly 150% the size of the entire Twin Cities metro area that VF serves. Valleyfair is a different smaller market, in a much larger geographical area. Maybe they don't have to make the investment. I know many are willing to drive some extra here. Why? Because we have to... Otherwise it's a 400 mile drive to Six Flags. I know it sounds weird to people in Chicago, or bigger cities- States like Texas with larger meto areas that have more major parks close by to choose from. But if you're in Minnesota, and you don't easily have the ability to fly or drive across the country (which many people don't), then VF looks a bit different. So do the other smaller parks nipping at their heals (often with the water parks). More so, if you're in an outer area like Rochester. VF is big in comparison to the 250 mile radius now, but as the smaller parks grow, and VF doesn't... Just because it's a successful corporation doesn't mean they don't miss the boat too, so to speak. I think quite often they are doing exactly what you say- skip the investment and take a steady profit- even if it's a smaller one. Some of this is speculation. It's not like CF has the home address of all their guests to prove it. Just a name and a credit card number. So it's difficult to know for sure how far their guests are really coming from.

I was at Valleyfair this afternoon, and the Monster Trucks are going into the old Dino area that used to be the old Antique Auto area. Most of the trees are still there- even the dead Ash trees are still up. They look to be roughly following the same path as has always been there. But I disagree that parks a few hours away are not in competition. Look at Valleyfair's website- what do they advertise as one of the top four links? Places to stay- Hotels. Who remembers the Valleyfair campground that was barely advertised? Did they just throw away that business, or outgrow it to hotels only? (before you laugh, keep in mind Brambilas is across the street) Parks a few hours away may not be in "direct" competition- meaning the people who show up for the day. But they are in competition with the crowd willing to stay overnight. A drive and a nights hotel room is within reason when you figure in ticket prices etc. Sure VF might be old hat to the locals, but if you live in say Rochester? (It is 25% the population size of the enitre Twin Cities.) Anyplace within 250 miles is realistically in play. Not to the same degree- school trips in the spring aren't going to make the long drive. But the once a year weekend family trip that includes a day at VF might. That's what Valleyfair should stay on top of. Being the bigger better place that's worth making at least a few hours trip for.

Is the Dino area where they are running the monster trucks? But even if it's years from now, that location is prime area for a new ride, eventually. If they did put in a coaster there, I hope they keep the trees to fly by. Or have they clear cut the whole area?

I Agree- if that is the case. Valleyfair literally sold out- they were turning people away! (regular ticket sales AND season pass holders had limited spots) So if they had that kind of demand, and lost money, it actually makes my initial point. It's NOT business thinking! Yet the business, threw it away. I enjoy the shows, I enjoy the rides. Call me an enthusiast or businessman, and my basic answer is the same. More ticket sales should equal more rides and/or shows. It's an interesting question though- what draws in more people. The rides or the shows, and which ones? Then take it a step further- which do they come back additional times for, to get the repeat sales?

Very true. But popular also means ticket sales- their main revenue source. If they somehow figured out how to lose money with the size of crowds they were bringing in, that's a special kind of business sense. You can totally count me as the unwashed ignorant, in that particular case.

You do realize the "business thinking" just threw away their most popular event, right? I'm excited to check out the coasters they are building at Lost Island- they look fun, and only a few hours away....the business totally needs to think about this stuff! Valleyfair's water park isn't bad at all, it's just small and that can make for long lines. Though it is excellent given it's included with the regular ticket price, not a separate park. But Valleyfair can't afford to lose Excalibur without a substantial replacement/investment of some kind. Otherwise reducing the dry park size is simply a poor look- when it comes to inviting customers to buy a ticket for the day.

Maybe some corporate decision was made about what they want their "brand" to be. Nothing else makes much sense for why they would stop the biggest show of the year. But even that is a stretch since all day Sunday and Saturday morning and afternoons were still little kid friendly. They are talking Friday and Saturday nights only, and only after the regular summer season is over- No water park etc. open... It will be interesting to see what the corporate board decides after they see the revenue numbers at the end of the year.

I'm thinking about the potential loss of huge crowds. That's a possible loss of huge revenue- and that's an extended timeline to a new ride. I'm also reacting to the loss of what was a good space for teenagers. Sometimes it seems like they don't want to be, but they are part of the family too. VF was one of the better places for them to go to. Haunted houses was a big part of the attraction. I doubt it, but I could be wrong and there's an untapped market of families who want to take their younger kids out on a Friday night after work, and they will make more money than before. For some I'm sure there is a gain to having a place for younger kids at night. Some of the shows at Haunt were a great place that was a medium thing for 10 year old's. (And they could wear no scare lights) Sinister Circus was a great "family" show for example. With no need to leave as the night wears on and teenagers crowd in. Will teenagers/young adults continue to show up in such large numbers for Treats, or large numbers of families to replace them? I guess we'll find out. It's interesting that the new tricks and treats is no longer prominently displayed on the VF webpage- though that might be a marketing issue. Corporate is probably not changing their minds.

Does anyone know how the Halloween Haunts did at other Cedar Fair parks? I thought they had a balanced approach- kid friendly Sundays and Saturday afternoons. Friday and Saturday nights more scary. Family could decide if they want to stay or not into the evening. VF had sold out crowds last year, and huge crowds the years before- hard to beat that... Just wondering how much the change is with VF and how much is CF corporate. Sometimes a one size fits all is not the best move... though the change might fit some parks in the chain really well. I don't know. Not that they would ever announce it if one park or another disagreed. Just seems dumb to throw away a sell out performance, which makes me wonder if other parks didn't do so well. Or maybe they were concerned about security etc.

The MOA water park has a massive budget, but to make it a year round park, most of the money will be eaten up by them enclosing it in a building. Keeping VF unique and competitive is quite doable. Look at Raging Rapids- that's a fun ride, plus it left space in the middle for the Hurricane Falls structure. If they plan ahead a lot can go into the space that is currently open next to the water park. If they replace the hill that used to be there and landscape, it could be really nice atmosphere too, compared to the relatively stale indoor setting at MOA. When they designed Renegade, they were smart to put the loading area in the park, and the rest of the coaster out in the flood zone. There's no reason why the footing for a coaster can't be out in the flood areas. They build footings in actual water all the time, like they did for Corkscrew. So my hope would be if they build the berm they could keep that newly dry area open for other expansions, in future years. Don't eat up too much dry real-estate with coaters. Plus it's kind of fun to go "out of the park" on a coaster. Only have just enough of the coaster to fly by the park to "advertise" it, and keep the amusement park atmosphere. One thing VF generally does well with is good landscaping. Even where the dinos were, there's some really nice trees and stuff that they could work with. If a coaster went in there, having trees to fly by is neat, and in my opinion, actually enhances a ride considerably. If they keep the trees...

Welcome Forfun! Nice pic- a bit better than just a "crude" rendition! I two would love to see a coaster go into that space. One thing I would do is bring the footings around over by Berserkers, to get a better ride in the limited area. With any luck before 2026.... As I've said before, Valleyfair would do well to first see what exactly is happening with the water park over at Mall of America. Then design something more unique, or at least different. The MOA is talking $268 million and getting financial backing from cities like Bloomington to do it. To quote an old show Poldark; T'int Right, T'int Fair, T'int Fit, T'int Proper! But it's real...so VF has to be unique, in my opinion, not just a duplicate. Currently the MOA project is on hold, or at least no announcements, from the pandemic...So a new coaster would be a better investment at this time than the water park. Maybe closer to 2026 make an announcement for water park with the 50 year anniversary? That would give time to make VF water park more of a destination- even if locally- than just another water park like MOA. VF has a good start on that, but I would hate to see the opposite happen- Where VF does something only to have MOA duplicate the best parts of it. So let the big money fall first, then VF reacts.

No one's posted much about the haunt this year. I was there last night, and they did quite well. The rides were open, the haunted houses were staffed. Mabey less than other years for the number of wandering actors in costume for the scare zones, but not bad. I definitely did miss the live music, though I think I heard some of their music from previous years piped in over the speakers. They had some excellent side shows. They brought in a few outside acts that certainly enhanced the haunt experience! The masque show was good and well attended. Freak Show Florida was worth a watch over at the Gazebo stage. Authentically Ashleigh brought grace and beauty to the overall spooky feel. Too bad the "Celebration Stage" doesn't show up on the app map, or there might have been better attended too. Short, but good show. She managed to stop passer byers. But otherwise being there, it was easy to see why they are selling out the weekends. The lines were longer early on, but the limit they placed on the crowd size kept things manageable. If you could stand the cooler weather as the evening went on, and you could get through lines much more quickly, as the under dressed left. I did see a couple individual "trouble makers" but their security was on top of that almost immediately, so nothing I saw made it above the "look at that idiot" level. Overall it was very well done. Low winds made for lots of fog and the actors, light and sound created great atmosphere. Good food too! I've been there at various times during the summer when they were really short staffed, but for the Haunt it was great to see them really up and running again. I'm hoping the crowd size helps make up for lost revenue. Maybe a new ride announcement at the end of next year? But either way, the management has at least recognized putting in some money toward the Haunt, even in a troubled year, is a good return on the investment!

As much as I want a new ride, and as much as I hate to say it, swishtime101 and valleyfairfanatic are right. Covid lockdown was a complete loss of 2020 plus all the basic expenses of taxes, some upkeep, full time employees, and Cedar Fair debt to boot.... 2021 helped, but VF had major staffing issues and only open a fraction of their normal schedule. Realistically I didn't expect too much for new rides this year. Part of me was thinking, yeah, buy a big coaster now before inflation hits (or prices are already up). But really, if there was ever a time I didn't expect anything, this year is it. Honestly, I'm hoping for their normal operating hours next year!

In case anyone hasn't seen it- the height restriction over Valleyfair really is 310 to 320 feet now, depending on what side of the park it is. Reference the Metropolitan Airport Commission - See pages 22, 26, 61 and 131 (of the PDF file itself, that's pages 26, 30, 65 and 135) Flying Cloud Zoning map- Maximum Construction Heights Without Permit Within Zoning Limits https://metroairports.org/sites/default/files/ordinances/Final-FCM-Zoning-Ordinance-04-10-19_w-attachments_signed_reduced.pdf One can dream... even if a giga is only a dream

Since Flying Cloud airport raised the height limits to 320', now is the time to build a Giga Coaster at Valleyfair! Lock in and grandfather the height while they can- Protect it for future investments before the airport can restrict VF future rides again. It's a totally sound investment to make! Keep the grand plan (and my dream) alive!

Wouldn't the opposite be true? The bigger the crowd, the better case you can make, for investing in a major ride; Small crowd is risky, asking the question- will bigger crowds come with a new major ride? Bigger crowds on the other hand can make a board say "I should keep going with what's drawing them in", that is true. But it also says, I have a crowd to safely support the new rides investment too, as evidenced by lines of people on the existing rides.

Um, big park or little park, that's basic business- they HAVE to care about the bottom line if they want to stay in business. Which incidentally requires them to also care about customer satisfaction, to keep customers coming back. I go to small independent parks too because some things they have are different, but find your term interesting - "Learn to love" the other (better?) smaller parks that has apparently taken your business. Out of curiosity, what specific care did they show you that Valleyfair/Cedar Fair didn't?

I was at Valleyfair on Thursday, and the Grand Carnivale wasn't bad. Actually some of the acts at the Superior stage (3-4pm) were quite good. I think the Superior stage is a difficult location in general. It depends on people walking by and stopping, which few do for any length of time, at any given time. With people walking by on the trail and few seats, it almost induces people to "move along". Unless you sit up real close to get your ears blasted out next to the speakers... Some more benches or something would help get people in to stay for a show in my opinion. Like the Ren Fest- have a seating area with the walking trail behind. I've always liked breaking up the day a bit with a show - especially if you can time it out with some food- Having different food then the normal burger and fries was great! You go to Valleyfair and want to get rides in too, and the shortened days this year really makes you think about how long you want to do any given thing. On a side note, whoever was playing live music at soak city was excellent! Minne & St Paul? Not on the schedule that I saw, just happened to be in the background when we were there. There was a decent crowd overall for the day, especially for a weekday. The idea of the GC dance party was to get the audience involved, learn it, and then I think follow the parade later in the evening and join in. That part is not my thing, and apparently not too many others either- at least on a Thursday. A good number of people lined up to watch the parade though, as most will watch a show before participating in it. It a tough thing to do, especially with mostly teenagers around, to try and get people out to dance...I would have to give the ones in the parade high marks for tying to get the people they did, to dance- they put some real effort in it. Kids were more than willing to run around collecting the streamers after the parade that got shot into the air. The Calendar online is showing VF is open weekends through October now, but so far no mention of Halloween. Less staff this year for sure, so it will be interesting what comes of that. If they limit attendance with the reservation system, or worse CDC and possible Gov. Walz covid restrictions. I hope that doesn't happen. Hope even harder that they have some new major ride lined up for Valleyfair soon!

In case you haven't seen it, Bloomington approved the zoning and building plans for the MOA water park early this week. The high res drawings are available at; https://agendasuite.org/iip/bloomington/file/getfile/71041 Looks cool, but almost a little underwhelming compared to West Edmonton (same owner), which seems to be a lot taller. I'm not sure how that all comes into play with Valleyfair's plans, but it's a nice visual of what the competition is doing (or at least wants to) 15 miles away. If they play it right Valleyfair could make theirs more unique/different keeping a edge, and still possibly play off the same customer base.