MikeC65

It's almost like you were arguing for the sake of being argumentative. You don't view Raven (golden ticket winner and praised throughout the enthusiast community) and Legend as being World Class. Holiday World = Large county fair. Noted. Thanks. Nope, just responding to your rather overwrought description of all those people at HW boarding all those "world class attractions"... all two of them. Yes, I just don't see Raven and Legend as "World Class". Good, yes, even excellent, but not world class -- to me, reaching that level requires a lot more than those rides have to offer. Raven was indeed voted a Golden Ticket winner... 12 years ago. This year, it doesn't rank in the top 10. Legend doesn't either. Better things (including Voyage) have since come along. Which is not to say Legend and Raven aren't really good rides -- they are --, but even if I give you those two, well, then we have four world-class attractions, three of which are wooden roller coasters. I love wooden roller coasters, as do many, but they're not everyone's cup of tea, and HW really has little else unique to offer besides Thunderbird. I stand by my statement that the other rides at HW are basically large country fair rides, because, well, they are. They're the same level of rides as at the Missouri State Fair which I attend every year. I've been to HW twice and enjoyed it -- and the water park blows away Hurricane Harbor -- but really, overall I'll take SFStL any day. Just compare JLBFM to that low budget turkey shoot ride at HW. World class? C'mon.

Thunderbird... yep, world class. Voyage... yep, world class if you enjoy huge woodies that shake you to pieces (which I do). But it's not everybody's cup of tea. And other that that, not real sure what world class attractions you're talking about. My last visit to HW two years ago, other than Voyage (and Legend and Raven, which are good, but hardly world class) my impression was that the rides were, for the most part, similar to what you'd see at a large traveling fair. Now the water park, THAT was world class and well worth the drive all by itself. Now, back to SFStL: I'm not at all sure the gentleman I was talking to expected me to put this online, so I will leave him anonymous and speak in general terms, but I have it on reliable authority that the folks responsible for JLBFM are working overnights whenever the park is closed to correct the problems the ride has been having, including the lack of reliability and constant resets (which I now know the cause of, but again, will not say because I'm not real sure I won't get someone in trouble by saying what it is, and I'm not going to do that), and also the issue with the lack of volume of the sound effects, particularly the volume of the dialog. Rest assured, from what I was told, the time is being put in to correct these issues, and things should improve markedly in terms of both reliability and ride quality.

You know, while the inability to hear the dialog in JLBFM is a real problem, there's just something really cool about the sentence "I can't hear a word Batman is saying."

Don't get me wrong, the ride actually is awesome, which makes the little issues stand out. One correction: the back wall isn't bare, it's finished. Still needs theming, though. Even some of those banners like in the entrance room would help. Went back to SFSTL and rode two more times. The character dialog really is virtually inaudible. That's got to be fixed. Other than that, it's a great ride and everyone exiting was really impressed from what I overheard. The wait was about 75 minutes.

Went to the park and rode JLBFM on the official opening day! Aweswome ride! There's always room for improvement, though, so here's a few comments and observations: (1) They really need to get the cars filled to capacity. We were a group of four and they sent our car out with just us on board. Other cars were going out not fully loaded either. The ride has low enough capacity as it is, so this is a real problem. Even if there isn't a single rider line, the ride grouper should be working hard to get small groups of 1 and 2 riders onto cars with extra seats available. By sending out cars with 4 people on board, they are cutting the ride's capacity by a third and turning a 60 minute wait into a 90 minute wait! (2) The theming in the loading room was a combination of awesome and unfinished looking. The whole place is bare concrete floors and walls. Why not at least throw in some carpeting around Cyborg to make it look more like he's in a control area? He's so awesome looking, but the concrete floor all around him really detracts from the theming. Similarly, the back wall of the loading room (where the flash pass / wheelchair people go) is just a vast expanse of bare concrete wall. Why not theme the back wall with some fake Justice League computers and displays with flashing lights and fake buttons and dials and so forth? They don't have to actually do anything, and it would really make the place look better. The huge projection monitor on the front wall above the loading area, together with the group of smaller monitors, looks great, but the loading room, taken as a whole, looks unfinished. I seriously was thinking that the room looks like they got halfway done and ran out of money. (3) The sound on the ride is not balanced properly. The sound effects were excellent, but the voices (the intro when you're entering the first room, the animatronic Joker and the characters in the 3-D movies) were played at such a low volume they were almost inaudible. One thing I remember about similar rides at Universal (Spider-Man and Transformers) is that the voicework was played at a high volume and obviously through separate surround speakers from the other sound effects and it was crystal clear. I'm not sure how the speakers are being done here, but this really needs to be corrected as it detracts from the ride -- it's the voicework that lets you understand what is going on, especially on the first screen at the start of the ride. (4) Why such a short look at the animatronic Joker? You barely even get a look at him, and he's one of the most eye-catching things in the entire ride. Reprogram the way the cars move through the room to slow them down a bit to allow a better look at the Joker (even just two extra seconds would make a big difference), and then make up the time by speeding up the cars a bit after the fire blast, when the Joker is out of sight. (5) What is with the blackout near the end of the ride, during the switch between the second-to-last large screen (the one with the helicopter) and the last large screen (the subway scene)? The car spins around, leaves the rider staring at the blank screen, and then moves you to the next screen. It looked to me like there was room to add some physical props between those two screens so there's something to look at during the transition. At the very least, change the programming of the car so the rider doesn't end up facing a blank screen! It totally takes the rider out of the illusion. I don't want the above to make it sound like I didn't like the ride -- it is by far the best ride at SFSTL and, although not up to the level of the max Universal rides, actually would not be out of place at Islands of Adventure, which is pretty high praise. But the above comments would make it even better.

(3) Toasted Ravioli! It's not toasted, naturally.

No doubt they are trying to sell people on gold Level Season passes. The thing is Gold Level Passes are the same price as any other most of the year and going to a SF park just twice more than pays for a season pass. Why they didn't do a season pass preview on Friday with Gold passes have 4-6 hours and regular passes having 2-4 hours is beyond me. It seems if the ride was 100% ready to open, you would want to start getting people through it ASAP to drive up attendance as soon as possible. I'm curious if it was open Friday night for the charity event? Although I was not at the charity event, I was told yesterday by a Six Flags security person that it was not opened for that event.

Is there anything to see on that long stretch of extra track? WDW and DL both have their own version of the Haunted Mansion ride. The one at WDW is longer and has a far better facade than the one at DL. However, having ridden both on numerous occasions, I can say that I prefer the one at DL to the one at WDW. Why? Although the WDW version is longer and has additional scenes (haunted library), the pacing and overall impact of the DL version is better. The extra scenes in the WDW version add little to the ride experience itself. Indeed, the extra length only serves to make the WDW version seem overdone and more drawn out than the superbly crafted original DL version. Whether or not one version of JLBFM will be better than the other depends greatly on each rider's perspective. Some will, no doubt, prefer the SFSTL version. Others might prefer the SFOT version. That being said, I think any differences in the actual ride experience for each park will be negligible. The facades not withstanding, I don't think it will be possible to say that one version is clearly better than the other. What are you talking about? The haunted library MAKES that ride. Sorry, it did nothing for me. Actually, I was kidding. Guess I should have used an emoticon.

Is there anything to see on that long stretch of extra track? WDW and DL both have their own version of the Haunted Mansion ride. The one at WDW is longer and has a far better facade than the one at DL. However, having ridden both on numerous occasions, I can say that I prefer the one at DL to the one at WDW. Why? Although the WDW version is longer and has additional scenes (haunted library), the pacing and overall impact of the DL version is better. The extra scenes in the WDW version add little to the ride experience itself. Indeed, the extra length only serves to make the WDW version seem overdone and more drawn out than the superbly crafted original DL version. Whether or not one version of JLBFM will be better than the other depends greatly on each rider's perspective. Some will, no doubt, prefer the SFSTL version. Others might prefer the SFOT version. That being said, I think any differences in the actual ride experience for each park will be negligible. The facades not withstanding, I don't think it will be possible to say that one version is clearly better than the other. What are you talking about? The haunted library MAKES that ride.

Is there anything to see on that long stretch of extra track?

Never noticed there was a cruise ship thread here. Awaiting our 7 day cruise on October 11th on the Carnival Magic. Always have a good time on a cruise! (well, except for the one cruise we took on RC, but that's another story.)

This is a pretty amusing POV of JLBFM. http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/05/21/kt-shippy-ride-justice-league-battle-for-metropolis/

This is a pretty amusing POV of JLBFM. http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/05/21/kt-shippy-ride-justice-league-battle-for-metropolis/

On the subject of rides a little less thrilling than JLBFM, what is going on with Bugs Bunny Ranger Pilots and the Marvin the Martian ride? My 6 y/o wants to know why they are closed.

YEEEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!! If that's correct I will be riding it on opening day! But are they going to do a Gold Pass Holder's only day on Thursday May 28th like they are doing for SFoT?

I think I read somewhere that it was 9 mill. Compared to Universal's Spidey which cost 100 mill. Considering that the JLBFM cars cost half a million dollars each, and SFOT has ten of them, that's $5 million just for the cars alone. I very much doubt that the entire rest of the ride, including creative development, the animation, the animatronics, the ride system, the control systems, and the physical construction, cost only an additional $4 million. Not sure where you got the half a million for each car number from, but it is just plainly untrue. While the amount of investment into the ride isn't something to be disclosed by employees online, I can hopefully help explain this a bit. 1. With 22 vehicles and the maintenance stuff, let's just make it easy and say $20 million on vehicles. That leaves $80 million left. 2. Approximately $10 million spent on four massive elevators for the vehicles. Down to $70. 3. Building massive buildings and intricately-themed queues are at least $30 million. $40 left. 4. Incredible 3D film sections that are the highest quality 3D film clips ever created at the time for $20 million, which includes creating the necessary technology and paying the voice/screen actors. That's $20 left. 5. Everything else like screens, lighting, sets, etc with the $20. It is important to remember that Transformers & Spiderman are really on a massive scale compared to JLBM. Also, one thing that made JLBM for affordable when talking about the ride's cost is that SFSL & SFOT were able to just split the cost of the 3D film development. When you get down to it, it really makes a lot of sense. P.S. Chadster, did you happen to meet Donna Gentry (the VP of Project Management for Sally)? She's an amazing lady, who is the one responsible for really making the rides possible. I am just happy that the ride at SFOT is open, as that means she'll be heading back to SFSL! Speaking of which, I get to be a test-dummy for the e-stop/evac testing tomorrow. I highly suggest some of you take a look over at the SFSL forum for some more information including pics of our superior facade & ride (being 200ft longer).....lol I'm just messin' with ya HWFan, here is where I got the half a million per car figure: http://www.screamscape.com/html/six_flags_st__louis.htm In the middle of that page is the following quote: (11/24/14)2014_1119_JokerFigure According to information released to those who attended the Daredevil Daze event at SFSL, the new Justice League dark ride cars, which were on display at IAAPA, will cost half a million each.

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! I was so close to making it without spoiling anything for me!!!!!! You know, you didn't actually HAVE to watch the video.

No chance. It's a perfectly fair thing to do to compare the ride experience of JLBFM with Transformers or Spider-Man at Universal Orlando. The similar ride systems and ride experience invite the comparison. But comparing the entire experience of the parks is just plain silly. One similar ride does not a similar business make. Universal Orlando or Disney are destination resorts, making their profits from people coming from all over the country (not that they don't sell a lot of season passes, too, but their bread and butter is the out of towner dropping big bucks on a week's vacation). Six Flags, in contrast is a collection of regional parks making their money on the locals. Six Flags doesn't expect to have anyone come to their parks and drop a fortune on meals and entertainment in a day. Hence Six Flags selling the Deluxe Dining Pass giving unlimited food at a bunch of low end restaurants -- they are more interested in getting the customers to come back, and that's a way to do it. Compare Universal Orlando's Citywalk, with a bunch of super expensive restaurants meant to separate a customer from his/her money on that customer's one and only visit to UO. There won't be any dining pass (they do sell a one day food pass, but again, that's a way to separate the customer from his money in one day). None of this is to say that Six Flags can't take lessons from UO or DIsney -- theming, for instance, is very important to a Universal or a DIsney because it creates the incredible overall experience that justifies people spending a small fortune to go there, but that doesn't mean, as many on this forum seem to think, that theming can simply be ignored by a regional company like Six Flags. Hence my complaining about SFStL's poor theming. But at the end of the day, Six Flags and Unversal / Disney are not direct competitors. They target totally different markets. I am stoked by seeing JLBFM and am definitely comparing it to Universal's similar rides. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to think "Wow! There'a a great ride at Six Flags that reminds me of Transformers! Guess I don't need to go to Universal ever again!" Nor is Six Flags trying to accomplish that. They're trying to up their game to attract more locals. Any comparison to the big boys is a bonus.

Yeah...Universal is freaking out. They are taking Kong and pandora back to the drawing board after seeing the video of justice league . Why do people feel the need to always compare rides/attractions to other ones? Especially when pound for pound the ride they are comparing it to are much better and advanced??? Now, this attraction looks great! I would like to see similar attractions at other six flags parks. I wonder if they can do it with anything other than the dc comic characters? I was also wondering if they could do dark rides with different characters. However, besides Looney Toons I don't know any other IP's Six Flags has the rights to. Don't hold your breath. If this ride is a big hit for Six Flags and increases park attendance at the two parks they are trying it out in, their next step is to amortize their investment in developing the ride by building clones of it at other Six Flags parks. That's how they justify the R&D.

I think I read somewhere that it was 9 mill. Compared to Universal's Spidey which cost 100 mill. Considering that the JLBFM cars cost half a million dollars each, and SFOT has ten of them, that's $5 million just for the cars alone. I very much doubt that the entire rest of the ride, including creative development, the animation, the animatronics, the ride system, the control systems, and the physical construction, cost only an additional $4 million.

Courtesy of Theme Park Insider, POV of the entire ride (SFoT version). To HWFan, Dave Roemer, and everyone at Six Flags, allow me to extend my most sincere apologies for ever having doubted you. With the actual video, this DOES look fully the equal of anything at Universal. I'm amazed. Now, when does it open?

I suspected as much; the video shown there was pretty bad. What stood out to me was the one shot showing a really big screen that looked just as impressively big as the larger screens in IoA Spider-Man!

You may not know, but is the ride requirement straight-up 42", or is there a lower limit if riding with a parent? Our youngest is 39" right now. All I know what the contest page said, which is, in its entirety: "Riders MUST be a minimum of 42” tall and accompanied by a rider 14 years or older." That would seem to imply that the height requirement is 42", period. HWFan?

That is a very interesting if rather overproduced video, but how much of the animation shown is from the actual ride? Honestly, the animation that can be seen there is not at all impressive, but (as I posted in the SFOT thread) I suspect that the CGI effects shown in this video are a combination of the actual ride animation and animation done for this video. It really doesn't show all that much of the "screens" portion of the ride. I'm hoping that the actual ride experience will be far better than what is shown here with regard to the animation. What little can be seen of the practical effects portion of the ride looks great! The effect of the Joker shooting and the barrel exploding with fire is awesome, and actually reminds me of a scene in IoA's Spider-Man where an on-screen Green Goblin throws a CGI bomb which results in a physical fireblast.

I suspect that the CGI effects shown in this video are a combination of the actual ride animation and animation done for this video. It really doesn't show all that much of the "screens" portion of the ride. I'm thinking that the actual ride experience will be far better than what is shown here with regard to the animation.