KD4me

Concerning the ride time of 3 minutes. I know the lift portion of a coaster takes up a good amount of time compared to the run from the first drop to the final brakes. But, with this being a cable lift and the ride having only 2 trains, wouldn't you think the ride up the lift would be pretty swift? I know the elevators in the Eiffel Tower take about 30 seconds to get to the observation decks (265/275 feet). I think that the elevator high speed is 7 mph or 10 feet per second (based on the spiel). I realize the trains have a longer distance to travel at a 45 degree angle. But, I cannot imagine the ride up would take more than a minute to get to the top. Does anyone know how long MF takes to get from the base to the apex of the hill? MPH or FPS?

KD is not a destination park like BGE. BGE is tied heavily to the tidewater tourism areas of VA. This includes Colonial Williamsburg, the large shopping outlet district, VA Beach, museums, nature center, and the largest population center in VA (Hampton, Newport News, Norfolk, Portsmouth, and VA beach). Since KD is not a destination park, it does not get the same pool of possible visitors that BGE gets. I believe the best attendance figures that KD experienced in its entire existence was between 2.2 to 2.3 million visitors in one year. My guess is that KD currently gets between 1.9 to 2.1 million visitors a year. Paramount did some damage with the placement and types rides over the years. The destruction of the entertainment division under Paramount did not help either. CF is making inroads to improving the park experience since they took over the Paramount chain almost 3 years ago. But, it still is going to take a few more years (4-5) to shake off the "Paramount stigma" in the eyes of the GP.

KD does own a good chunk of the land on the east side of the theme park boundary (east of the railroad and Doswell road). The park's campground is located on the northern edge of the property (bordering on the southern side of route 30) and a couple large tracks of land to the south of the campground. The park has allowed the boy scouts and girl scouts to camp on those fields during weekends when the park featured special days for those groups in the past. The main part of the new state fairgrounds are east of KD's property and on the north side of route 30. There is some land that the state fair owns on the south side of route 30 (east of the KD property) that will be for parking. When you go to the 2009 Virginia State Fair, you will take the Doswell exit off of interstate 95 heading east on route 30. You will pass the front of KD drive over the railroad tracks and pass the KD campground on the right(southern side). About 1/4 to 1/2 mile east of the KD campground, you will turn right and park on the land south of route 30. The state fair has built a tunnel under route 30 to take the fair goers to the north side of route 30 to the main area of the fairgrounds. you can google the "State Fair of Virginia to get more info. The fair runs 1 and 1/2 weeks starting the last week of September. P.S. You can also access Route 30 from Route 1 to the west and Route 301 to the east.

My feeling is that the train will not make actual contact with those pieces. I am still holding on to my thought that those big track pieces are to be part of a vertical tower structure that will have the responsibility of lifting a horizontal section of track, with the train on it, that will be lifted up to the apex of the ride and released to go down the first drop. Those two small parallel rails on either side of the cable box are to be used to keep the lift section of track centered and not swaying side to side | front to back as it is lifted. The moving section of track will have a running guide wheel and probably two side friction guide wheels as well. Most cable elevators have a similiar set up so the elevator car does not swing back and forth while traveling. You can see that on the Eiffel Tower elevators and on the Drop Tower also (two rails on opposite sides of the drop tower that run from the top all the way to ground level. I think that Intamin has a little experience in lifting big, heavy objects nearly 300 feet into the air.

Have you ever thought of taking those lift pieces and standing them on end with the cable canals facing each other? now imagine another pair of lift towers a little further down from the original pair in the same postion. Between the 2 sets of lift towers is a horizontal piece of track that is attached to all 4 towers. The coaster train rolls onto this section of track and is locked in place. Then a signal is sent and the coaster rises to the top (still in a horizontal position - parallel to the ground). Once at the top the train is released and advancing wheels push the train toward the beginning of the first drop. Thus, no need for a massive lift hill and all that space and supports needed. ******_ _ *****|_| | | |_| < == Tower Set 1 ********| | ********| | (Ground) ********| | <== Track ********| | (Looking straight down coaster train elevator shaft) ******_ | | _ *****|_| | | |_| <== Tower Set 2

Well, as I stated on the kdfansite, my guess is that the coaster train will never actually touch those "lift" pieces. But, they will have the job of lifting the coaster to the heavens.

Maybe the reason there is not a large splash footprint is the acutal design of the boats. Based on the photos on this TR, if you look closely at the front of the boat, it is blunt (squared off |_|). The front being squared off along with being concave, projects the water foward not outward. I imagine if the boats had more of a prow, extended at the center and tapered back to the sides, the water would be thrown outward. (| |) \/

Just curious, how many gondola's on Americana can the crew load at one time? I know the ferris wheel can hold a bunch of people; but, I am wondering how fast is the turn-a-round when loading/unloading the people.

I think KD will use most of the land for expansion. Now that does not mean we will be walking around way back there to the south of the Rebel Yell and water park. I can see the back part of a major coaster footprint using the southern part of the property. I would not be surprised, in the next 4 or 5 years, to see KD expand the waterpark by a couple more acres with a few more attractions. The best bet for KD park goers to tramp on "virgin" ground. Would be the chunk of land around FOF, the Anaconda lift hill, to about the back turn-a-round of the Rebel Yell.

That is exactly the shot I had viewed before. The only thing I messed up was that the service road turns back to the east and then runs into electric transmission lines right of way. It is hard to see the railroad tracks due to the road that runs parallel to them on the east. Anyway, that whole section of land bordered by the service road to the west; the electric transmission line right of way to the south; and the railroad tracks to the east belongs to KD. You can see the old roads for the animal sarfari winding through that area. In 1974 you drove your car on those roads. When the whole park opened in 1975, the monorail track was installed on the road bed and you rode the monorail until the animal safari was closed at the end of the 1992 season. That land wraps around the back turnaround of the rebel yell and along the Anaconda lift hill and ends at its current northern most point at FOF. That undeveloped piece of land is almost 70% the size of the current developed park (NOT including the parking lots). That is a tremendous amount of land for Cedar Fair and Kings Dominion to work with in the future.

Most of KD's undeveloped land lies in the southeast quadrant of the current developed park between the railroad tracks and I-95. KD does not own the land directly south of the hurler (close to I-95). The park does own the land south of the Rebel Yell. Most of the undeveloped land consists of the old animal safari that was closed at the end of the 1992 season. There are a few arial/satellite photos that are 5-6 years old that shows a good portion of the property. You probably have to google it to find them. You can see the park boundary by viewing the service road that runs behind the Hurler (east-west) and then turns right and goes behind the original wave pool (north-south). The service road continues south past the wave pool and come to a major electric transmission line right of way. The transmission lines are angled in a southwest to northeast path. If you follow the transmission lines to the northeast, the lines cross the railroad tracks that run right along KD's eastern boundary. That whole chunk of land east of the service road, north of the electric lines and west of the railroad tracks belongs to KD. They also own a large amount of land east of the railroad tracks (campgrounds and fields behind it as well as a green house and some other land parcels behind that.

The other two rides are rumored to be El Dorado,a Huss Rainbow/Falling start type ride & the spider,which appears to be the same model that KD had back in the 70's/early 80's & not one of those polyp models like octopus at SFA. KD had the polyp model with 4 cars on each major arm (Octopus). There is a picture on KD's web site from the 70's showing the ride (see Below). http://www.kingsdominion.com/images/news/PKD%201970s%2071_mc4.jpg The model at GL is a spider with 2 cars per arm and a different ride cycle. As others have asserted, I feel Cedar Fair thinks highly of KD and is willing to invest in the park even in an "off" season. I think that KD is firmly in the top 5 of CF's parks along side of Cedar Point, Knotts, CanW, and KI. We have received 3 major water attractions in 2007; Dominator in 2008; and the possibility of 3 flats in 2009. I realize that some are not happy with this possible selection of flats for 2009 but, how much happier would you be if CF announced KD would get nothing but general improvements for 2009?

KD has not changed any bag/locker policy on any coaster that I know of. All coasters have bins or a shelf on the exit side of the station, including Dominator, to put your stuff in before riding. And Volcano still does the cart routine very well. I don't think any CF park has a mandatory locker policy like Six Flags parks (and I hope it stays that way).

As far as the attractions not being open during a weekday, its basically due to a staffing shortage. This happens during the first 2 weeks of June and the last 2 weeks of August. The latter part of August is not as bad as in the beginning of June due to the foriegn workers staying through Labor Day weekend. Usually, by now, KD has its complement of foreign workers at the park training on the rides and in the restaurants, shops, and games. I don't know if the economic situation is causing the park to cut back on foreign workers (travel expense / lodging) or not.

Dominator is opening late on the weekdays for completion of the painting of the rails and supports as stated above. I was wondering about the Avalanche running a one train operation since the 2008 season opening. It sounds like there are issues with the trains and track. I hope that the park can work with Mack, (if they are still around), or get the people with the ride engineering plans and get the ride repaired and fully operational. The ride originally came with 5 six car trains in 1988. The ride could not operate with 5 trains due to blocking limitations. So KD took the 5th train apart and added a car to each of the other 4 trains making each train 7 cars long. Sometime in the early 90's, 2 of the trains collided. The resulting damage caused KD to rebuild 1 train from the 2 damaged trains and the 2 cars leftover from the 5th train. The ride currently has 3 trains. Maybe KD is having issues getting replacement parts for the other trains or, if this 1 train operation is due to track issues, maybe KD is having to get new track/supports fabricated to replace the failing structure. It would be nice to get the Avalanche back up and running a 3 train operation again. It is a very popular ride with everyone of all ages. Even with a 1 train operation, many people were waiting to ride it.