Baelfael

lol k Yeah, that's what I said. I definitely haven't been saying "I'm more or less neutral on them but I think they raise an interesting issue with the experience" Sorry for talking about the parks in a way deeper than "ride fun" or "crowds big."

I mean, sure, completely objectively speaking and stripping away all aesthetics, they are some busses. But doing that also means Tower of Terror is strictly worse than, say, Detonator at Worlds of Fun (a space shot that's taller than the Tower of Terror). That can't be right (and hold that thought in mind every time I talk about storytelling in this post). "Disney World design put a lot of thought into the things guests see in what order when they enter the park, and buses paradoxically short circuit that" isn't really subjective. Whether that negative outweighs the positives in guests being able to skip security checks (not to mention whatever boon extra cash brings) is subjective...but I'm not sure I come down firmly on one side or the other. That's what i meant by "some segment of the population." The effect is definitely small in quantity, but I think it's relatively large in magnitude. You only get one chance to make a first impression, after all. I tend to think of everything after the turnstile as part of the experience of that individual park (you can quibble as to whether the ride from the TTC to the gate is part of it - but consider that the monorail is absolutely iconic to the parks. Dismissing it as "just" a form of transport is probably missing the point a little.) It's not (just) about emotion. It's about storytelling, which is more or less at the core of a ton of WDW experiences. Like, let's walk through it. The plaque at main street station reads, "Here you leave today and enter a world of yesterday, tomorrow, and fantasy." And you pass that sign, and you walk down a replica of yesterday's main street, with a carefully-constructed-to-loom-over-you bit of fantasy architecture at the end. You get there, look around the hub, and (guests aside, of course) there aren't indicia of the real world - you're surrounded by the gates into the various lands. That's the opening statement. That's the story. And while a random person might not pick it as their favorite moment (leading them to save 20 minutes by going in by Tomorrowland), that walk is a fundamental portion of the park. And, by the way, it is about emotion too! Last time I saw Wishes, I saw a woman literally bawling at the finale, and there were plenty of people misty eyed. Look at how many memes there are of people being sad at Mufasa's death! These are parts of our cultural psyche, and ignoring it means ignoring what makes Disney a park really worth seeing (stripped of context, there are very few very high quality rides there). You might not get Disney, and that's perfectly okay! It is some magical bullshit! But for people who are interested in an experience and not just a thrill, there's something special there. Parks are a lot like movies, where more things than you think are considered choices. This is more true for Disney than some parks, as WDW was literally built up from the swamplands (think of SF Fiesta Texas or SFSTL, which didn't have that completely blank to deal with.) So it's frequently worth asking "wait, why is this here?" Why is Main Street before the Castle? Why is the rail station in front of main street? Because of storytelling. Point being, Cedar Point does have an opening statement! It's just not nearly as emotionally resonant because (to my understanding) that isn't the focus of Cedar Point. Cedar Point is about the thrills, plain and simple. There's relatively little focused theming, and they pour tons of money into making things bigger and taller and faster. To inspire the right frame of mind for Disney World, you remove guests from reality through the idealized past and toward outright fantasy. To invoke the right frame of mind for Cedar Point, you have a flyby of a really bitchin coaster. The first impression people get of Cedar Point is the roar of a B&M and the scream of happy guests. There's nothing more iconic than those when it comes to roller coasters! And I think the front gate is way, way stronger with Gatekeeper there. Walking up to the front gate and seeing a train fly by is supposed to put you in the mood to scream like you're in a TPR POV video. But because Cedar Point isn't about storytelling (and because "roar of coaster + screams" can be heard virtually everywhere in the park), missing that flyby is a relatively small cost. And, I want to be clear here, to the people saying, "this won't affect you if you don't pay for it." First, yeah, it'll probably remove buses from circulation. Second, what I'm saying with all these effortposts about theming is that going in the back is going to affect people negatively in ways that are difficult to get at with simple polls. It removes one of the (smaller) things that makes Disney a memorable theme park, rather than an amusement park that happens to have some good intellectual property. EDITED to make my last bits about Cedar Point a little more cogent.

So, do we actually know that Disney is putting more buses into circulation, or is the benefit of "less people using the regular system" speculative? It isn't hard to imagine the world where the number of people taking express busses doesn't relieve the stress of taking buses out of general pool. I think the best argument against these things is that they remove the opening act of each park. It's a small (but I think significant) thing for a repeat visitor, but there's going to be some segment of the population whose first walk into one of the parks will be via an express bus. I think MK and AK especially have near perfect opening acts, and giving the opportunity to skip those is absolutely a cost. I'm not at all sure that cost outweighs the benefits, but I think it's disingenuous to pretend anyone with complaints is a lunatic. EDIT on a bit of reflection: I also think this is different from the utilidoor tour. It's not just about breaking the "fourth wall" - it's about doing so for people who aren't specifically looking for that. If you sign up for the Keys to the Kingdom tour, you know exactly what you're getting. You are opting in to see how the sausage is made. If you take an express bus, the primary motivation is convenience; screwing with the show is a side effect that is some sort of negative effect on the experience. Again, I think net benefit wise these aren't RUINING DISNEY OMG but these arguments are valid, I think.

Yeah, although it's running intermittently (if at all) this late in the season. I actually haven't taken a good look recently to see if the cars are still on it.

Thanks for the suggestion! Way better than breaking policy. After spending a week at WDW, I think one of the big things I was amused by was the difference in park policies. Riding a roller coaster? Just throw your bag at your feet and give your restraint a little tug, we'll be happy to send the train. Tripods? Sure, go nuts. Try to wear a purse during Star Tours? NO. THAT IS NOT ALLOWED. Meanwhile, at SDC, they demanded you empty your pockets entirely before they'd dispatch a train. Having a dozen cell phones per train sitting at the station feels like a recipe for disaster but I guess in family friendly Branson Missouri nothing bad ever happens?

What a coincidence, me too! kappa Anyway, I don't know who to grouse about this to, so I'm going to throw it here. I e-mailed customer service recently and they told me that tripods of any sort will continue to be disallowed during HitP. This is...annoying. The event is being sold as something to really look at, and I'd love to practice my nighttime photography. Is there any way the park considers loosening its policy on this front for the event? That being said, the tripod I'm looking to bring is tiny - big enough to fit in a coat pocket - so I guess my follow up question is "what would happen to me if I secreted this in, then got caught using it?" If its confiscation, that'd be fine, assuming I'd get it back. Hell, I'd be fine getting kicked out of the park for the day. I just don't want to suffer the dreaded one year ban. Really though, it wouldn't be hard to set a policy like, "tripods with extended heights of 12" or more are not allowed," and it would probably solve every concern the park has about them.

Okay, SFSTL, I like you. I love turning around in queues when I see a 10 minute wait. I love all the greenery. The lack of new steel doesn't bother me much, and I don't even mind that you keep shipping vital parts of our theming to Georgia (#SaveTheSpanishFlagAtSixFlagsSaintLouis - get it trending people.) But we need to have a talk. Not about food services or operations or cracking pavement. Not a talk about guest services. No, we need to have a talk About your promotional photos. Pictured: How an alien pretending to be human eats a funnel cake. "I, A HYOOMAN BEING, AM ENJOYING THIS FRIED CONFECTION IN THE HYOOMAN MANNER." Meanwhile, over at the gate to Hurricane Harbor.... Well, this seems like a perfectly happy fam- Wait, zoom and enhance. ENHANCE This is the face of a woman that is going to murder her family in their sleep. As a special favor for my home park I went ahead and worked up a Fright Fest version of the same photo. Your welcome, Six Flags. I'll just pick up my check at Season Pass Processing next time I'm in the park.

They sent our flags to Georgia.

Re-themeing confirmed. I'm fine with the DC names, but I do wish they should just move all in on it. Harley Quinn's Spinsanity exists. It's a different ride, but apparently they don't care about that (see e.g. Lassos of Truth). It would also let them move in on a theme that's present in the public eye, which is where Disney is going with things. People will bemoan the gutting of Future World's "future optimism" theme for Guardians attractions, but you can't deny it makes business sense. I suppose part of another problem is DC's complete inability to get its stuff together when it comes to its characters. Superman is still recognizably Superman, but he's also had a half dozen different costumes in as many years. Harley Quinn's appearance on the tilt-a-whirl hasn't been her look for 5 years now. The DC plaza proudly displays a logo that's 3 versions out of date. It makes cohesion difficult. I also have to wonder if they have to pay for each use of the IP, or at the very least, how hard it is for SF to get DC's sign off on each implementation of it. tl;dr: I care too much about a sign at the front of flat rides.

I love the idea of replacing the go-karts and having the Boss queue run over the new ride. It'd have the same play as Boomerang, where you have a decent enough ride that gets a neat interaction with non-riders. I doubt it'd happen though. It'd take some re-engineering of the Boss queue, and who knows if that section of the park is wired for another major power draw. Also, go karts rarely draws significant numbers, but since it's an additional fee attraction, it probably pays for its own variable costs. Here's an odd complaint: whichever team is in charge of naming needs a stern talking to. In 2016 we had The New Revolution except also there is a different The New Revolution on half the parks and also you can the The New Revolution on The New Revolution. A couple parks also got Spinsanity...which is a different ride than 2017's Spinsanity. Six Flags has had issues here before (Goliath Goliath GoliathGoliathGoliath), but those were at least spaced out a bit. One of the advantages of a chain is to create a sense of continuity of experience with guests across multiple parks. That's not served with bizarre naming schemes.

Boomerang, especially ours, has awful capacity. Part of it is normal shuttle coaster woes, but part of it is also the truly hilarious configuration of "we need the guests to be 3 feet back from the gates." Plenty of trains get held up as OPs yell at kids to stand back. I think the Giant Inverted Boomerangs have significant reliability problems. The wiki for them certainly seems to point to more problems than good old fashioned Boomerangs have. Combine that with significantly higher institutional knowledge of Boomerangs, and even setting cost aside, it's not hard to see why Six Flags likes them more. (The updated restraint system would be a nice surprise though). Just to counter-balance the other random opinions on this page: no plz don't tia. New for 2017 in St. Louis - once a week we will put a B&M Hyper train in DC Plaza and allow guests to enjoy the new coaster smell. We will then launch the train into the parking lot lake using a half completed coaster, Roller Coaster Tycoon style. We just want you to know suffering. HAVE A SIX FLAGS DAY.

Have we considered the possibility that everything everywhere is The Worst. I'm curious how it's been "neutered". Also, remember that someone literally died on it. Different restraint system but if the corporation said "yeah we just want to play it safe" would you really blame them? My favorite Six Flags memory comes from that ride, actually. Little kid, maybe an inch or two taller than the requirement, is riding alone. Train comes into the station and the kid slides out from under the lap bar and starts running toward the exit. The attendant starts to say something, realizes its too late, makes a face, then just starts resetting the train for the next dispatch.

Six Flags on September 1: "we're proud to announce the addition of Harley Quinn Spinsanity to Six Flags St. Louis!" Prozach: "ehhhhhh" Six Flags: "We think it's really going to tie the room together." Prozach: "I'LL BE THERE."

I'll never not be curious about details like this. Why? My knee-jerk guess is that the counterweights (which I'm literally guessing exist, I really don't know) can only be configured to deal with 3 cars at minimum, but I'd love to know for sure. Is there a decent source for technical information on theme park rides? It feels like it should be trivial to get information on these more-or-less off the shelf rides, but maybe the potential audience is too low for anyone to bother publishing it. Thanks in advance.

These two statements are at odds with one another. That lighting package is brilliant though.

I mean, Six Flags China is a thing. I see no reason we cannot simply co-opt #ThanksShanghai. This summer has been extraordinarily brutal with heat and humidity. It's not an excuse (everyone knows our summers are like the inside of Satan's butt) but it's an explanation. We used it...well, not on a busy day, but the queue was just brushing into the first indoor room. Our twosome literally walked on with a group of four, which is the best possible outcome on a number of levels. I dig it and hope to see it next time we're there.

How dare you interrupt our 3 page cycle of "we don't have a hyper" "holiday world is eating our lunch" "all is lost smoke em if you got em" Last year they did the company-wide announcement on Labor Day weekend. I think it was the same time in 2014 as well, but I'm too lazy to check the thread to double check. We don't have a firm date for this year, but Labor Day weekend feels likely. They'll tease the announcement on the website for a bit beforehand.

Is there a reason for this?

I got you, I specifically was calling out the part of your post where you said that once upon a time, less loved rides would just be torn down and replaced. I don't think that was particularly a thing. Rather, I think you just had rides languish for extended periods...not unlike what happened to Ninja for a long time. VR may or may not be the solution to aging rides, but I don't think it replaced anything important. Apropos of nothing, some photos from the park. I want to get this photo with no one standing on the opposing platform. Shouldn't be too hard, just have to hang out there later in the night. (I probably needed something to stabilize with this one) Also when did imgur get so crappy about just giving you a link to the picture? Does anyone know a better simple image host that doesn't have pretensions of being yet another community/social media platform?

Actually, I feel like this is a good rule - don't ride something with a HMD if you haven't ridden it vanilla. I think you're romanticizing the past here. I doubt there was ever a period of time in which parks were tearing down rides constantly because they weren't quite maintaining the queues of whatever was the new hotness that year. Maybe way back before the great depression, when roller coasters were entirely new so they could just level some ground and plop one down, without having to worry about opportunity cost of another roller coaster. Not to mention headline-style rides are almost certainly more expensive now, even after inflation. But I'm definitely no historian. If I'm wrong I'd love to know. I think that parks should do what it takes to maximize return on investment. I say this as a shareholder (tee hee) and as someone who recognizes that more money means more potential for capital spending. If a ride with a 10 year "exciting life span" can be extended another year or two by partnering with Samsung and throwing on a gimmick for relatively low cost? Yes, do that (and again, I think parks should stay away from rides that already command good waits, like Raging Bull.) As for whether VR on roller coasters stick, I think it depends almost entirely on whether VR catches on overall. If it does, people will become adept at dealing with HMDs. If VR becomes reasonably ubiquitous, people are less likely to view it as a gimmick (whose novelty will wear off) and more like another form of entertainment (so it sticks around). Lots of pixels have been typed about whether VR is A Thing this time around, but it certainly seems more likely than it did back in the 90's. I will say that I don't think it has much to do with whether any particular VR installation is good or bad. If its generally well received, some VR experiences at theme parks will become normal, just like roller coasters at theme parks are normal.

They actually had scrims around Superman when we were there yesterday. What don't they want us to see My theory: the Intamin Gods demand fowl sacrifice and management doesn't want the public to see the grisly sight. This explains the re-opening of the fried chicken dining location, as well as the absence of Tweety and Foghorn Leghorn from the dance party late last night.

For some reason, I get a kick out of seeing late-season Boss trains sunning themselves on the lift hill. It's like a cat, just needs to warm up a bit. :3 It's fine. I'm a big proponent of putting VR onto otherwise unappreciated coasters (I have no idea what they're thinking with Raging Bull), but even I recognize that there's only so much lipstick on a pig will help. The Ninja is a mediocre at best roller coaster, and the VR is temperamental enough to absolutely wreck capacity. I still think it's worth riding, especially if you've enjoyed your VR experiences in other parks, but don't expect to be blown away. To be honest, my desire to ride it again plummeted after getting Google Cardboard. Now I can enjoy phone quality VR in the comfort of my own home! By the way, a lot of people here will (loudly and repeatedly) say that the Ninja gives them headaches/snapped their neck/killed their parents, leaving them with no option but to become a vigilante to ensure such a thing never happens in their city again, but I think it's a bit overblown. Ninja is a rough ride, but I think as long as you know it's coming, it's nothing unbearable...unlike The Boss on one of its moodier days.

I don't know how to tell another person to check it, but it's in the app or the season pass website. That week is bring a friend for $22. It'll be more crowded but obviously way less so than free. SFSTL also moving in on the poke-craze.

My guess is that over time we'll see more overheating (as the hardware naturally ages it'll just become less reliable) and less video de-sync (as the software gets updated). It's possible, of course, that Samsung/whoever did the software end of things never updates this, but development of VR is a relatively high priority for all parties. Six Flags is obviously pushing it as a big initiative, and so is Samsung. Oculus only exists as a VR company, and their branding is present. There's also the chance that the handsets in the Gear VR units are upgraded over time, but that feels sorta unlikely due to relatively high marginal costs.

I enjoy hearing about this stuff! Where's the reservoir located, if you don't mind my asking? Also, am I correct that the crossing is the ramp you can see from the exit of Freeze?