Baelfael

Me and the SO went after work yesterday. Got there at maybe 6, and Thunder River was operational. The fact that it was drained only a few hours prior is nutso and makes me want to see how they fill it. I would have thought that filling the entire thing would take longer than a few hours.

Tidal Wave is going to get removed, but because St. Louis summers demand a "just get very very wet" ride, they'll replace it with THE FIREHOSE I would unironically enjoy this.

Finally got a ride in on the New Revolution. It's really good, not great though. The headsets really do have zero latency, and it does make for a much better ride than just vanilla Ninja. I think putting this on mid-tier thrill coasters like Ninja is the right play. Too much more exciting and you'd want to see the sights from the top of the hill, too much tamer and the VR experience may not be interesting enough. If you're skeptical of the idea I doubt it'll convert you. Full disclosure, I very much want this nonsense to catch on because I think it is cooler than all get out, so I was primed to at least enjoy it, if not love it. One line of the queue was maybe a 30 minute wait; didn't have a watch on me to time it. The park was at its summer standard of "walk on everything" though, so relatively speaking, it's significant. I don't want to think about what the line will look like when people are actually there, like during Fright Fest. The biggest problem, I think, is that improving throughput is going to be a struggle. Waiting until riders are seated to hand out headsets (which is what happens now) means extra time getting them on, clipping them in, and seeing if they're overheated from prior runs. There could be significant gains in handing headsets to the people on the platform to do that initial stuff, but at that point I think you'd be talking about handing out a lot more equipment, and who knows if they're willing/able to do that. The only other gain I can think of is that in the fall, the headsets probably won't overheat quite as readily. Meanwhile in "its Theme Park Review not Roller Coaster Review" chat, me and the SO went to see the Broadway revue at the Palace Theatre. The show was just short versions of maybe one or two dozen songs from various musicals; what was surprising was the selection. The cuts were pretty deep/borderline inappropriate for a family act. Next to Normal isn't a show many people are familiar with (my SO had to remind me of what the show was when I'm Alive came on). While I certainly don't mind seeing Chicago in any context, All that Jazz isn't exactly a squeakly clean song. Anyway, the theater was clean and air conditioned and the talent was above average high school students (which is almost certainly exactly what we were seeing). A very pleasant value added proposition. Also, the Daffy Duck Dance Off is happening in the plaza in front of...the Empire theatre? Is that what it's called? Whatever, the point is it is some characters dancing in costume in St. Louis summer heat. Not particularly inspiring, but there is literally no way these workers are being paid enough.

It's all horrible. The restaurant has been on fire for days and there is still an hour long line for food. VR is blinding people and the roller coaster is literally snapping their necks it's so rough. Over at JL, thanks to bad ops, someone flipped a safety toggle and Cyborg's laser started going off, randomly vaporizing guests (although this did reduce queue time somewhat). The HITP preview got mixed up with the Fright Fest preview and now Krampus is making every child in the park cry uncontrollably. Some trickster - I suspect Wily E. Coyote - installed vibration motors in all the Boss's trains so it's rougher than ever. Worse still I had to drive a full 30 minutes to get to the park but my built in seat massagers were broken so I got drop toes. This all could have been avoided. If only we had gotten Goliath instead of Georgia. Thanks Six Flags.

I have specific preferences for how long I will drive in order to achieve a given level of enjoyment. I will present these numbers as though they have any bearing on the utility curve of other people in situations that may or may not be similar to my own. This will be discussion in the SFStL thread for multiple pages because in addition to our park being a trackwreck, we are a trainwreck. It's an oddly active thread considering how little happens. The GrAm thread has had about 30 pages of discussion since the announcement of Battle for Metropolis. We've had literally 191 pages in the same time period. We are the walking dead.

After an early Memorial Day BBQ, the SO and I went to ride New Revolution. We glanced at the ride at maybe 6:00, saw the line spilling past the gate, and decided to go with a "wait for more people to leave" strategy. Made a lap around the park, grabbed a pretzel, and tried to re-queue around 7:40. Apparently the park has decided to move to a timed ticket system for TNR without posting any signage. We were told that tickets had been distributed for the day and that we couldn't queue up. Maybe there are signs somewhere that I missed. It's certainly possible. I realize that what happened to us is pretty edge case-y, but changing the way lines work without notice is still a pretty obnoxious thing to do. I try to find silver linings for our scrappy little park, but sometimes it's hard. I also like that Ninja isn't being time ticketed (only TNR). But they can't temporarily suspend Ninja while some TNR hype dies down since having more people with headsets would only further wreck dispatch times. I'm still excited about trying this but it's completely unsurprising that ride ops is having a hard time dealing. I didn't feel like sticking around long enough to time dispatches.

Prozach - and everyone who regularly posts on an internet forum dedicated to talking about theme parks - does not represent the masses. It's very possible the general public doesn't like Mamba (I'm not familiar with WoF so I really can't even guess), but I'm not sure that's related to whether an enthusiast likes it. Like, everyone here scoffs at Boomerang but there's always a fair line for it, at least when there's a train on the track. I don't think motion simulators went away, exactly, they just evolved. Rides like Adventures of Spider Man, BfM, and Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey fairly clearly represent evolutions of the tech pioneered by Star Tours and BttF. VR has room to grow through things like augmented reality, greater interactivity, and tighter theming between the ride and the experience. Not saying it'll necessarily get there - goodness knows tech innovations have flared out before, including virtual reality back in the 90's - but there's creative space. Here's a question for the thread - would you be warmer on trying a HMD if it was an experience? You can see around you but extra effects are happening. It's worth noting that the modular nature of Gear VR would allow for swapping in this sort of experience when the driving hardware is able to produce this sort of action without latency (I'd wager whatever Galaxy they have strapped in there now couldn't handle it).

I actually think widespread adoption/acceptance by the public would be a huge boon for roller coaster riders, even "purists" like yourself. If the tech becomes a thing that's frequently used on roller coasters, you're looking at a brand new revenue stream where there was none before. An aging coaster is now a new draw, providing more money for the park. This allows parks to be more aggressive in their coaster investments, since their investment will provide two bumps in attendance; one the year it opens and one five years down the line (or whenever) when they debut a VR experience on it. It's not as though parks will ever force every rider to wear the headset. There are too many people who can't use the tech for various reasons, to say nothing of the people that just want to look around from the top of the lift hill. It's ironic that both of you are talking about the sky falling when prozach pointed out that this was a fear literally 25 years ago. I'm sure people were worried about Back to the Future and Star Tours scooping traditional coasters, but clearly we're all still here enjoying new and creative rides (maybe not at SFStL...but you know). There have been and always will be advantages to physicality and barring something truly bizarre, we're not going to see it go away any time soon. I'm sure it's planned to be reasonably long term; they can always refresh the graphics if the thing has legs (see also: Amazing Adventures of Spider-Man). I also posted about this a while back - quoting myself because that's the kind of guy I am. I do absolutely think it was a mistake not going with something more stylized. Pay less for texture art, pay more for model rendering. The introduction to Galactica looks stunning and has less texture detail than TNR. It's a theme park. Everything is a gimmick. Flipping upside down a few times on this hunk of steel is a gimmick. Cyborg talking to you is a gimmick. Bugs greeting you at the gate is a gimmick. But people like these things and pay money to experience them. Again, if VR isn't your bag, if you personally have no interest in trying it, that's fine, not everything is for everyone. But to suggest that Six Flags is somehow acting improperly for trying to inject new life on an old, stale attraction (look how I don't even have to re-phrase) makes no sense to me.

Oh also, another question for HarleyGuy- was the sound system installed? How'd that work for you? I remember reading somewhere (probably here) that the visuals would be supplemented with speakers placed throughout the track, which seems sorta weird. Also, super7 - on the "typical Six Flags gimmick," isn't Alton Towers at least reasonably well respected? Galactica benefits from having more stylized/abstract visuals, but that wasn't included in your list of complaints. And, look, what you get excited about is obviously subjective. If you don't like video/motion hybrids, that's your business, and I won't tell you that you simply must be excited for this. But why exaggerate? I have no idea what you're talking about when you say you can find an experience similar to a VR coaster - or the better rides at Universal - at an arcade. Hell, I'm amazed you can even find an arcade these days.

There are a couple things happening. First, yes, there are the generic/probably overblown concerns about strain on developing eyes. These aren't really anything new. Head Mounted Displays bring actual measurable problems though. Remember that Gear VR isn't just splitting a phone's screen into two; it uses lenses to help give perspective to the images. I'm pretty sure the lenses on a Gear VR aren't adjustable like they are on higher end HMDs like Rift or Vive. A child's interpupillary distance is going to be much shorter than an adult's, such that they're no longer looking through the part of the lens designed to actually see through (think about looking through the edge of a pair of eyeglasses.) The image will be distorted, and even if kids are generally better about motion sickness, it'll still be a cruddy experience. Question for HarleyGuy - were there enough people there to get any sort of idea what ops are going to look like? I have images of trains that take until the heat death of the universe to dispatch, and I'd love for you to allay my concerns. It looks like there were lots of staff for relatively few riders, though, which would throw things off.

I'm reasonably certain there is A/C in that station, just not turned on yet. It's just one of those weird weekends where it was almost hot enough for a lot of things. Rode Tsunami Soaker for the first time, and I'll just go ahead and say it - if you don't like this ride, you hate fun. Exceptions made for anyone that just doesn't like water rides (but I question your sanity in St. Louis summers). Also, history question - what was on the little island before Mr. Freeze was installed? It's such a weird size.

News - Per e-mail sent from SF, New Revolution opens for season pass holders on the 28th, and to the general public on the 29th...same as a free bring-a-friend weekend and HH opening, which means i"m sure the park will see higher than usual attendance. I'm so glad there's nothing new or at all unusual about The New Revolution, so I'm sure ops on it will be able to handle the crush! Also they're looking to hire people to play some DC heroes. That makes me happy. Wandering entertainment is one of those things I've seen a more this year then last. It's no hypercoaster but it always helps it feel more like a theme park to me.

I think I'd be happier if corporate actually called their shots and explicitly committed to St. Louis being a secondary park. The mantra from park representatives that "other parks have no influence on Six Flags St. Louis attendance" feels like it cuts both ways. Sure, it means there's no competition from them...but it also implies that this park is no competition to them either. Which, hey, might be how they want it. Corporate says, "for your every weekend family fun, visit your local Six Flags. Once or twice per season, use the same pass to road trip to your Top Tier Six Flags in Chicago!" That may be a more financially sustainable business model than supporting a dozen parks with massive roller coasters on a regular basis. If they were explicit about making this more of a family friendly park, they'd be able to at least allay the drumbeat from people like Prozach. Now it's just a large portion of enthusists saying "what on earth are you doing," whereas making it explicit would let them say, "hey, we're not for you." Which is fine. Not every product has to be for every consumer, and I guarantee you the family with a couple adolescents is happier about Fireball and The New Revoluation than they would have been with a B&M install that the kids can't even ride. Of course, the open question is how such a branding would thrash overall attendance. Is the "Missouri's Coaster Capital" branding so much better than "your local family fun park?" I don't know. Also, while i was waiting in the line for Fireball this weekend I timed a half dozen dispatches from Ninja, keying off of the top of the lift hill. Average time between trains was about 2:10. It's not a great sample since that was all the same station crew, but it's at least some data. If someone else wants to grab a few more samples before The New Revolution goes live, that'd be neat, since it'll be the last chance to get comparison point data to see how badly the headsets and full trains destroy dispatch times (my money is on "savage" destruction.)

Unless something happened, the single train thing was right at the start of the season when the train was being refurbed. You really should be able to tell just by watching the ride for 5-10 minutes. Turning a train over takes a few minutes. If it's running two trains, there will be a very long delay between dispatches.

Sure is. It happened on Demon at my home park, SFGAm, in 1998. A guide wheel broke off an axle of a car, and the train stopped upside down in a loop. Some passengers were stuck up there for a few hours, and all had to be rescued by emergency personnel. No major injuries, and the train did exactly what it should have, considering a wheel broke off. No derailment occurred, consequently. I'm sure I would have literally pooped myself if I were in that train or in Boomerang when it ground to a halt, but honestly, it's somewhat comforting that no one is getting seriously hurt. "The wheels fell off" is one of those things that sounds ridiculously catastrophic. PS yes doing that to The Boss would be a good thing.

I have this image of thousands of lights purchased from Walgreens on December 26th strung up onto the coaster with a giant orange extension cord running to a 120v outlet in the station. Please make this happen hwfan. We all know you are secretly in charge of Six Flags St. Louis. You cannot fool us any longer.

You're right, they should have scrapped it because ??? ????? I'm no theme-park-ologist, but at a guess, moving rides around provides an attendance bump because the rides are new to a huge portion of guests, and because it gives a hook for advertising. Most of the people at La Ronde don't care that their new ride used to be in Missouri, they care that they have a new ride. Saving money by moving rides around is one of those weird efficiencies that Six Flags can take advantage of by having a bunch of locations. We can spitball about whether we in STL are seeing enough of a benefit from having a semi-unique ride removed in favor of the Nth installation of a big loop, but it seems likely that these are the decisions that fuel multiple large scale installations across the chain every year while still driving up stock prices and paying dividends to shareholders. Poo-pooing recycling out of hand feels unwarranted. I dunno, though, maybe you had some deeper thoughts?

I can't imagine this will be a problem since SF is a pre-existing nuisance. Anyone who buys in a development next door wouldn't have a compelling case to argue that they never expected coaster noise (either in a legal sense, or in a zoning board meeting). I feel like the worst case is our extremely imaginary B&M hyper gets filled with sand to stifle some of the roar. I also have to think that there are upper limits for how big a park should be. Wikipedia puts the used land at SFStL at about 280 acres, and Epcot - a park frequently noted for its size - at 300. Obviously more room is devoted to sprawling rides at a (nominally) coaster focused park like SF, but still, there's only so much walking a guest can be expected to do before getting annoyed with sprawl. By the way, did anyone run the coaster races this past weekend? How was it? Ironically, I missed out on it to run a race in Urbana.

There's a decent amount of room in the north east corner of the park; knock down Tidal Wave (and maybe that cotton candy and games stand if you need the space for more queue). The company also owns a ridiculous amount of land around the park. I think they have something like twice the area of the park proper. There are limits to how big a park like Six Flags should construct walking paths, but certainly running track into otherwise undeveloped areas is feasible. EDIT: apparently nope lol. See below. I love it when that "politically correct to treating people with respect" extension pays off. Hint: it isn't the word "obese" that's the problem with your description.

I missed this last time I responded to the thread and I'm curious. Some of the list is pretty inarguable (Boomerang lol meme here), but is there anyone who is seriously bothered by American Thunder being a clone? The number of people who have been to SFStL and Powerpark has to number in the double digits at best, right? In a completely hypothetical scenario, would anyone here really be upset if SFStL got a copy of (choosing arbitrarily) The Smiler or some currently European only B&M? I mean, I guess you could be upset about getting The Smiler since you may get whacked in the head with a stray bolt or something, but lets take that out of the equation.

I can't tell if you're actually confused why this would be the case or just venting. If it's the former, I really don't think it has that much to do with downtime. Remember that BfM has a more or less rubbish capacity. 6 people (assuming ideal situations, which can't really happen) every minute or so, we'll be nice and round up, that's maybe 400 people per hour. Compare that to The Boss, which loads 24 in a train and dispatches them maybe every 2.5 minutes, we'll round up for the same reason. 600 people per hour? And that's probably the coaster (aside from maybe Pandemonium, with its non-trains) that's the slowest thanks to two trains on a very long track. Combine that with the only real e-ticket attraction that's friendly to kids of a certain height and still present buzz about the fancy new attraction...I hope you're not actually confused why BfM would have massive lines is what I'm saying. I rode the railroad yesterday. Deer will get used to anything, won't they?

I like the idea of a ride that just spins around you while you sit completely still. I also like the idea that you are somehow managing to bungle describing this carnival ride.

"Damnit, I knew we shouldn't have used that honey dispenser as part of the launching mechanism!" --Someone at Premiere Rides

I went yesterday. The rain early in the day really kept the place empty, even for SFStL standards. I rode BfM twice, waiting about 15 and 25 minutes, which is a real coup. I don't know the ride backwards and forwards, but I think all the in-ride effects were operational. Queue monitors were still off, however, and hit detection on the fogbank Lexbots felt worse than usual. Also noteworthy, they're making an effort to send out vehicles with 5 to 6. The op was shouting for specific size groups to fill out cars (this led to my party of 2 skipping the post-turnstile wait), and there was an unused, for today anyway, sign near the entrance advertising a single rider line.

Whenever I ride Boomerang I'm struck by how rough the catch is on the "back" lift hill. Is that something endemic to the design (I've never ridden another Boomerang) or is it a quirk of our particular train/catch car?