C.P.A.Guy

No advertisement. Everytime I go to Valleyfair, before I head home, I fill up at the Super America and get a chicken tender basket from Culvers. Tradition. The dinos died once. Let's hope a B&M destroys them this time around instead of an asteroid, or whatever way scientists are preaching nowadays.. I'm starting to say B&M in my posts too much, you guys are rubbing off on me.. Lol! See? "Quit making statements like they are fact" Haha. Just kidding! Hey, somebody has to remind all the gullible people on here that most the information posted here has little to no basis of reliability and are merely just opinions and like someone said, speculation.. I remember discussing the "Falcon" rumor way back in 2002-2003. There has never been any evidence of it. I think Dorney had recently put Talon in and everybody figured Vallyfair and Worlds of fun were next, then they caught onto the whole Cedar Fair bird of prey names for their B&M inverts, put two and two together and ran with the idea. It made sense, which is why everybody bought into the idea so much.

No advertisement. Everytime I go to Valleyfair, before I head home, I fill up at the Super America and get a chicken tender basket from Culvers. Tradition. The dinos died once. Let's hope a B&M destroys them this time around instead of an asteroid, or whatever way scientists are preaching nowadays.. I'm starting to say B&M in my posts too much, you guys are rubbing off on me..

I could see them removing the the Panic Falls slide complex, the old splash station, and the old changing area to open up more area for newer attractions and to connect to a new entrance plaza. I see them keeping Hurricane Falls and reconfiguring the lazy river to accommodate new attractions and pathways. Depending how far the entrance would be back from the current water park, there should be enough room for one or two new slide complexes, a newer changing building/food or drink place, and possible another kid's interactive play area. I don't think the water park will be as large as Oceans of Fun or Dorney's Wildwater Kingdom, but the quality of attractions should be just as great as they will all be built in the last 10 years (starting with the Wave Pool - '09), minus Hurricane Falls. The new water park attractions would have to be pretty compact and possibly weave in, out, over, and under each other, but I think you could add quite a few different things. As far as Flight Deck from Canada's Wonderland, if Valleyfair would inherit that, instead of putting in a used Vekoma suspended coaster ---> I would rather have them scrap it for a bunch of $100 bills, then use one of the $100 bills to go get some gas at the Super America across from Culvers by Canterbury Park, drive back to the park with a couple containers full of gas, throw the rest of the $100 bills in one of the millions of garbage cans that every Cedar Fair park has, pour the gas purchased at the Super America on the $100 bills inside the garbage can, light a match, throw it into the garbage can full of $100 bills, and then finally watch those $100 bills burn while chanting B & M!!! B & M!!! B & M!!!

Bottom line is, despite some wild suggestions for relocating half the rides in the park, there's only two places a huge new coaster could go 1) The very front of the park 2) The very back of the park #1 is not happening next year because the Dino franchise hasn't expired. #2 is not happening because the infrastructure doesn't exist yet and will be expensive when and if they're allowed to build it. There is hope for this thread afterall! Seriously though, couldn't agree with you more! By completing this PROPOSED project, it should open up the possibility to put a quality coaster in the back of the park and have it actually be protected from floods. Having a $15 million dollar investment under water every 5 years isn't very ideal. It would also let Valleyfair use part of the current parking lot for coaster near the entrance. Between the current dinos spot and some of the existing parking lot, you should be able to build a quality B&M to show off to visitors as they enter the park. Cedar Fair loves to show off their B&M inverts near the entrance (ex: Talon, Patriot, Raptor) so I can't imagine an invert fitting in better at any other location than the dinos. A lift hill with a 180 degree swooping drop over the entrance plaza would look pretty sweet. Sort of like Talon, but closer to plaza! But first, lets get this water park/new parking lot addition done!

Hit the nail on the head there. This is a huge project IF everything gets approved and rolling. IF the project does get rolling, I hope they get rid of that ugly tunnel you walk through to get to Thunder Canyon. I hope we do get this huge project instead of a coaster in 2017-2018. In my opinion, tying together the whole water park with another expansion and finishing up the area with a new parking lot and second entrance would improve the park more than a new coaster at this point and time. Plus this would set up Valleyfair with more options for future additions.

Nobody officially, but the writing is on the wall for it to happen soon.. Yes, I know the off season is long no matter what. I was trying to get at how this thread has gone south and it's not even the off season yet..

The flames are so high it's starting to reach the height restriction placed over Valleyfair..

Wow.. I'm willing to bet the parking lot is going to be some sort of black tar/concrete mix color with yellow lines. The yellow lines will be a technological break thru for amusement park guests, as they will help visitors park their vehicles in a way that will efficiently utilize the entire parking lot space. This will allow the parking lot to have a higher total vehicle capacity and create organized lanes for vehicles to maneuver safely up and down and all around to Grandmother's house we go. Dave, yes our beloved GM, personally sent all of us that picture in our direct messages. You didn't get it? Dave's message also stated they are moving Excalibur to Cedar Point in exchange for Millennium Force, which will be relocated to the existing parking lot once the new one is complete. (Warning: The following post you just completed reading may contain sarcasm and other smart ass tones, much like grsupercity's original teaser photo.) It's going to be a long winter in this thread if we don't get something halfway decent announced for next year..

Hey, by the time Valleyfair does get a B&M, coasterlead won't be a kid anymore! Actually, he probably will be dead from old age.. I was told to quit being a smart ass a lot as a child..

I remember reading something like that too a long time ago somewhere, but highly doubt if there is any truth at all to it. Just another wild rumor on a coaster forum, imagine that. There is also no way that they started producing track and supports without a full, 100% approval of the project. The new haunt building does look pretty impressive for it only going to be used 6-7 weeks out of the year.

It's pretty obvious that the water park/new parking lot will be the focus the next few years. If you're wanting a new coaster before 2019 I think you're going to be disappointed. I'll stick to my prediction of new B&M replacing the dinos and part of the parking lot in 2019-2020. Part of me wishes that the Wild Thing figure 8 didn't occupy so much area around the entrance. Wish it was more of a compacted 540 degree helix like Steel Force and Mamba to allow for more of an expansion down the Route 76 midway.

When you apply for a construction permit, the cost of the permit is often based on the estimated total cost of the project. The permit did not cost $100,000, but that was the estimated cost of the building. Also, the haunt building was built this year so I believe that would fall under a 2015 expenditure and not a 2016. I think the Flyers would look great in the old scrambler spot. I haven't been to the park since it moved (going the first weekend in September), but it seems like that would be a lot of unnecessary concrete in that area.

If I was a betting man, this would be my guess. I know of one particular poster who bugs the heck out of him every time he sees Dave at the park. Like almost stalker level. I was just poking fun. Meant no harm. I just think it's funny how many of you think talking to Dave will yield any useful information. Nothing wrong with saying hi and keep up the good work, but playing 20 questions might be a tad annoying to him. Is there a ACE event at Valleyfair this year? Coaster Craze wasn't it called?

They filed permits for building a new access road around the back of the park, and building a new parking lot behind soak city. Doesn't sound like much, but it is actually a big project Yes but it sounds it wasn't approved what Dave has said. I hope this would happen though but I'm not keeping my hopes up for it. No, it did not sound like that. If I remember correctly it was proposed sometime in April and the public hearing was open until sometime in May. That was only two months ago. When your dealing with government wetlands, actually anything governmental in general, it tends to be a longer process and cost more. I'm not surprised if this is taking awhile and haven't seen signs of construction starting at this point yet. There is still plenty of time for a project like this to be completed for next season. Maybe there were some amendments they had to make to the plan. Maybe its actually an off season plan after the 2016 season. Maybe its all approved and Dave isn't telling us because he thinks some of you bug him too much! Nobody knows! http://www.thestreet.com/story/13224612/1/why-cedar-fair-remains-a-good-value-after-its-stunning-recovery.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO Interesting article on Cedar Fair from an investor's prospective. $1.6 billion in debt and paying $96 million in annual interest. JESUS! I thought my mortgage was bad! I wouldn't build a B&M at Valleyfair either! Sorry...had to do it!

Could be a coincidence. Or it could just be a major breakdown.

When you word a post like this I think people get the wrong idea. This post is worded as if this is fact that a dark ride is going there. This is not a fact, just speculation. Which don't get me wrong, speculation is perfectly fine so don't freak out on me. I just think people should watch how they word their posts. In this thread it seems that this is how all these "rumors" get started with people thinking they may actually be from a legitimate source. If you meant that you personally think the amphitheater would be a good spot for a dark ride, I agree. The blueprint is large enough to occupy a large dark ride building. I think that any new attraction that may go in the amphitheater spot is going to have to go along with some adjusting to the train station location and layout, which shouldn't be to hard.

I wouldn't say Valleyfair has been neglected at all. Just because we haven't received a coaster in awhile doesn't mean the park has been neglected. We've received steady upgrades almost every year. While an investment like Route 76 may not be real exciting, it does serve a purpose of bringing a dead area of the park some life. Valleyfair has an above average coaster selection, so Cedar Fair decided to use major investments to spruce up the children's area and water park in recent years instead of adding another coaster. Even dating back 10+ years ago, I still don't see neglect. Wild Thing, Mad Mouse, Power Tower, Steel Venom all within an 8 year period or so years. If the plan with the water park is to wait another 5 years or so before another upgrade "phase" much like the wait in between the wave pool addition and this year's slide complex/kid's area, then I could see us adding a new coaster in 2017. But if they plan on adding a new parking lot and a new water park entrance in 2017, I would assume on them wanting to add a new slide complex or some kind of new water park attraction to market with the new, revamped "Soak City." And that would again take up a major investment year and push a coaster back another 3-5 years till 2020-2021. Ugh, 14-15 possible years in between new coasters. Some of you will go crazy and be in the nut house waiting so long...

Valleyfair had 1,250,000 and some change for visitors in 2006 (that was the last time I saw CF publish attendance in their year end report. Now they just use pie chart graphs but they do group the park in the 1 to 1.5 million yearly attendance category still for 2014). So let's just use the average of that range at 1.25 million visitors (not unrealistic since they park hit 1 million in attendance after Wild Thing in 1996). Then you have Nickelodeon Universe which has a lower daily admission fee than VF, the option to just choose to ride 1 ride at a time at even a lower cost if you only want one or two rides, no unsupervised teenagers are allowed in the park after 6:00 pm plus all the food sales competition from the 4th floor at MOA which VF does not have and you 'estimate' they have 5x profit as VF? That means they would need at LEAST 5 times the people to get to your 5x profit margin estimate and that would be 6 million visitors. (So 5 x 1.25 million = 6 million). That would put the park ahead of Sea World Orlando (5,090,000 attendance in 2014) and make it the 10th largest park in the U.S.. The 20th biggest park in the U.S. for attendance in 2014 is Busch Gardens Virginia at 2.726 million. Funny, I don't see NU in any attendance listing anywhere even being in the top 50 parks in the U.S. for attendance. So at a 5x profit margin your still way over inflated on your estimate and you even admit to making that number up. Trying to prove points with made up numbers invalidate your point. And your the one calling for people on this thread to be 'more realistic'? http://www.mynews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2015/6/Theme%20Index_2014_v1_1a.PDF Jesus H.. There are way too many factors such as season pass repeat visitors, the one time ride tickets like you stated, and countless others to even debate this. I wouldn't say attendance can be a direct correlation to profit when you simply take season passes into account. I'll type a pointless scenario too in order to prove this for you. Two parks each get 1 million visitors. One is more of a destination park and one is more of a local park. Each park charges $80 bucks for a season pass and $40 for a one-day admission ticket. Park 1, the destination park, has 100,000 season pass holders who visit twice each year and 800,000 one-day visitors. Park 2, the local park, also has 100,000 season pass holders who visit the park six times each year and 400,000 one-day visitors. Income: Park 1 (destination): (100,000x$80)+(800,000x$40)=$40,000,000 Park 2 (local): (100,000x$80)+(400,000x$40)=$24,000,000 So I guess I should of said: I am willing to bet that Nick Universe brings in more profit than Valleyfair each year. There, I retract my old statement and remove the estimate, and replace it with this general phrase so RCJunkie can chill. My God, don't attack the guy that thinks he heard a rumor about moving Excalibur to Michigan's Adventure and converting it into a stand-up..let's attack the guy who keeps down to earth, REALISTIC expectations for his home park that doesn't have a track record of huge, major investments..*breath*..who made one over estimate on a subject we have no accurate way of proving..

Is there any proof of anybody at Cedar Fair actually stating this or is it just a myth? I agree, the new access road and parking lot could get very expensive and take up a few years of investment dollars alone. Makes a guy wonder if that is why Valleyfair has more "off" years and mid-level investments than a normal Cedar Fair park knowing that one day in the future this would need to be done in order to keep growing.

I don't think Phantom is being a debby downer. I think Phantom is just being realistic and this thread needs more of that. Reading some of these posts you would swear that B&M track is on its way to the park and footers are poured already. People probably think all Minnesotans are nut jobs looking at our home park's thread. There are no signs of any addition yet for next year and if you don't see some sort of markings by the end of the month into early August, then don't plan on a large scale coaster coming next year. I think we are overdue for a coaster as well, but if management has identified the water park as the number one priority in the future I would bet that that is where the major investment dollars will go and not towards a new coaster. If that realistic point of view is being a debby downer, then so be it. All our coaster additions in the past have been mid-level investments in the $7-9 million dollar range (Steel Venom and Renegade). If a new water park would push our revenue high enough to get Cedar Fair to invest in a $12-15 million dollar coaster like a B&M, wouldn't you want the water park to get the attention first for a few years? Or would you want to keep settling for above average coasters instead of possibly getting a great one? I think that is exactly what a water park would do as I know everyone in my family, except me, prefers to go to water parks versus amusement parks.

Nice made up number with 25x. They definitely compete with each other for the 4-12 age demographic. If not, then VF would not have invested $11 in the 2011 Snoopy Remodel and spent that some where else in the park. Camp Snoopy was the second biggest investment in the park since Wild Thing. That's exactly what is was...a made up number. The point was I'd bet they pull in a hell of a lot more income than Valleyfair just based on the traffic that gets pumped through that place. Yeah, it probably was high I'll admit it, but out of all the ridiculous things people have posted lately in this thread I find it odd this is what you decided to jump on. Would 10x be a better estimate for you? I won't go below 5x.. Does anybody remember how lame Kidworks and Berenstain Bear Country was? It needed remodeling whether they were competing with someone or not. I still don't believe Valleyfair gives two shits about what Nick Universe does. I'm sure they pay attention, but when it comes to decision time it's not a major factor. Anyway, that Kidworks remodel really was a waste of investment dollars that could of been used elsewhere. Only lasted 6-7 years. Glad they finally got a Snoopy themed area. I thought that would of happened pretty much in unison when MOA dropped the theme.

I live on the southern border, about 5 miles from Iowa, and growing up my friends and I went to Valleyfair every year for many years. Never was Adventureland even in the discussion. I went to Adventureland a few years ago and Adventureland is not even close to Valleyfair's level, even with this new coaster announcement. I mean come on guys, its Iowa... Who hates Iowa? WE HATE IOWA!!!

Just think about it kid... Do you have any idea how many people visit the Mall of America every year? And with Nick Universe being open year round compared to Valleyfair for half the year, if that. I wouldn't be surprised if Nick Universe pulls in 25x or more the profit that Valleyfair does. I don't think that Valleyfair really cares what Nick Universe does and vice versa. I wouldn't even say they really compete with each other. Yeah, yeah, they are both amusement parks I know. But they are so different and I would venture to say that if you say amusement park in Minnesota, 99 out of 100 people will say Valleyfair. Nick Universe always seemed to me like something visitors of the mall stumble upon, and then decide that it is something they want to do. I wouldn't be worried about Valleyfair not having profit. In fact, I never understood why anybody is worried about this or why it even comes up. No business stays open if its not making a steady profit worth the company's time. Let a lone a business like Valleyfair that on average invests millions in new attractions/upgrades every year. If Cedar Fair didn't like the income results Valleyfair was achieving they would sell, close, or downgrade it like they did Geauga Lake. Let's not forget that Cedar Fair made a huge financial investment in acquiring the Paramount parks. I would account that as a major factor in the slowing down of coaster additions at parks like Valleyfair, Dorney Park, and Worlds of Fun. A lot of attention were given to those new parks to maximize a return on their acquisitions. As that loan continues to get paid off, I would look for investments in the older Cedar Fair parks to rise again.

I think any future coaster with a larger layout is probably contingent upon when the new access road/parking lot proposal is approved and complete. I don't think a new coaster is going in the back of the park without the new access road protecting a majority of its layout. I also don't think they are using up a large part of the existing parking lot for a coaster without the new water park parking lot. This is why I don't see a large full circuit coaster in our near future (2-3 years). I don't care how long its been without one as I don't believe time means anything in relation to park additions. It seems to me that the new access road, new parking lot, and water park upgrades are the priority for the park in the near future, and a coaster will probably happen a year or two after those are taken care of. I think a Wing coaster that zero g-rolls over the parking lot entrance would be perfect for guests first arriving at the park. And having some of the layout on the other side of the parking lot towards the employee dorms would save on some parking spaces as well. Only way both a water park upgrade and new coaster happen is if Cedar Fair makes a huge 30+ million investment like they did with Carowinds this year. Even though we may have been labeled as a growth park like Carowinds, I don't see that happening based on Valleyfair's past investment history. I think they spread out major investments like they always have with us over 3-5 years...