[Walt Disney World Monorail Crash. One person dead.]

After reading the MiceAge post, it seems like the person who wrote that up seems to have a good idea about the monorail system. Also, his theories are A LOT more sensible than a lot of the BS the news has been spreading around, like Purple had hit pink and Austin wasn't "experienced" or wasn't paying attention. But some of the points he brought up simply don't make sense.

 

For instance, he says the driver of pink must not have been paying attention and not looking at his rear-view mirrors. Well for starters, a scenario like what happened last night is very common, and I personally was sent to the holding place in forward and went in reverse over the switch all the way to the Magic Kingdom. Generally each central coordinator does things different, some will make you switch in concourse so you can go over the switch in forward, but if time is tight, they'll usually just send the train in reverse. One thing I remember from going in reverse from Epcot to Magic Kingdom over the switch is that regardless if you're paying atttention to mirrors its impossible to see whats going on behind you. Not only was it dark the night this happened, but the fact that the train is on a curve during the spur makes it all the more difficult to see what's going on behind you. So saying the driver of pink wasn't paying is obviously far fetched, because even if he was looking in his mirrors, chances are he couldn't see anything.

 

I'd also like to point out that when you are sent over a spur such in a case as this, Central Command will usually say you are CLEAR TO wherever it is that you are going. When they tell you this, you take their word that there is no train in front (or behind) of you and even if you get an amber or a red, you are allowed to use MAPO override to keep going. Granted Pink was clear to Base or the Magic Kingdom in reverse, the driver of pink would have no reason to believe there would be a train behind him, so thus saying he wasn't looking in his mirrors is not a valid explanation to what happened.

 

Also, another thing I'd like to clear up is the idea that Purple was in station when Pink was on the way to the holding point to go onto the spur line. I think this was explained in an earlier post, but when they clear a train to the holding point for the switch, they don't automatically say the train behind it can enter the station. Because of the MAPO system and the open switch, they have to have the train behind hold at pylon 379 (main holding point for concourse). This is where the train would get their amber MAPO. When the switch is moved and it is safe, they will tell that train Normal Visual to Pylon 385 (where they will get a Red) and MAPO override to complete their stop in Concourse (this after being clearing Pink over the spur to its stop).

 

Another gripe I had with the story was the writer continued basing his belief on the idea that Purple was in the station. First of all, if you're parked in a station and seeing a train coming at you, you have plenty of time to react with it going 15 mph. I HIGHLY doubt the pilot just sat there and watched as the train started coming at him. Secondly, he mentioned something about the killpack and why no one used it. IF purple was in the station, there would be no reason for a cast member to use it as it would only kill Purples power and not allow it to move. And his point that he made about power outages on trains just doesn't make any sense either, as the only way Purple would lose power if it was killed in the station. He seems awfully funny that power would be killed right before this happened, AND even if that had happened, Austin would not have just sat there in the cabin as a train was approaching him head on.

 

Lastly, the authors idea that they moved the trains multiple times doesn't make sense either. All the pictures I saw of the trains outside the station from the left side of the train showed no apparent evidence that they had even pried the doors open. However, the pictures from the station clearly show the cabin door pried open and you can see the blue cushions from the cabin seats. I'd just like to point out that if Pink was completely empty going back to shop, they wouldn't have moved Pink back into the station to get the pilot out. There are things called roof hatches, and every train has them. If you put the clues together it can be easily seen the crash happened right outside the Concourse station. The pilot of purple really had no chance if you think about it. If he stopped, Pink would still be going and the crash would still happen. He could have jumped, but because of the door system, you have to reach out of the cab window just to open the door. No one will really know what the pilot was thinking or why he didn't react so I'd suggest no one try to do that. Also, Pink would be able to pull purple into the station where they would be able to access purple's cabin more easily. I think this explains why there are pictures of it outside the station (with the cabin door unopened and with no evidence of the jaws of life being used on them) and inside the station as well.

 

I'm not going to sit here and explain every little detail one what could have happened or why it happened or who is to blame, because that's what the investigation is for. I'm simply trying to clear up some obvious mistakes on all these theories people seem to have. The only way that you are going to COMPLETELY understand what happened and why happened, is if you have knowledge of the Monorail system and how it is run on a day to day basis. I had the privilege of working as a Pilot for 5 months, getting to know lots of great Cast Members on the job (including Austin) and was able to learn all about how this great system. All I'm going to say is mistakes were made the night of the accident, and it wasn't because of bad decisions by either of the Pilots. It's really unfortunate that such a tragedy had to happen, especially in these certain circumstances.

 

"One Rail, One Family"

RIP Austin

[Walt Disney World Monorail Crash. One person dead.]

As I see it now, no-one knows what happened, so everything that is being posted is pure speculation.

 

My thoughts go out to his colleagues, friends and family.

 

There ARE people who know what happened because there ARE people who witnessed the event and heard what was going on on the radio. These people have been asked to stay silent about the event until the investigation is complete and information is released to the public about the incident.

 

 

Ok, I'll rephrase my last comment......No-One on these Forums know what happened.

 

I pretty much know the basics of what happened because I keep in contact with my old co-workers. But like them, I'm not revealing anything I know about the accident until the investigation is done.

[Walt Disney World Monorail Crash. One person dead.]

As I see it now, no-one knows what happened, so everything that is being posted is pure speculation.

 

My thoughts go out to his colleagues, friends and family.

 

There ARE people who know what happened because there ARE people who witnessed the event and heard what was going on on the radio. These people have been asked to stay silent about the event until the investigation is complete and information is released to the public about the incident.

[Walt Disney World Monorail Crash. One person dead.]

Yes I understand that...I was down there during Spring Break and we were operating all 12 trains pretty much every day. If a train broke down, it was taken to shop in the middle of the day, but unless there wasn't something seriously wrong with it and it couldn't come back out, the train was usually back out by the end of the night.

 

You have to keep in mind, in the mornings and nights, the Express beam is the busiest. Usually in mid-day, Resort beam would have the most trains. So on busy days during spring break, July 4th, etc. If a train breaks down on the Resort beam in the middle of the day, they would usually move a Express beam train over to accommodate for that lost train. But like I said, if they felt that train was ready to go again, it would usually return back to the system by the end of the night, especially during a busy day.

 

What was occurring at the time of the accident was normal procedure for taking a train from Epcot to shop. Since there is no beam from Epcot to shop, you obviously have to bring that train over to the express beam and this involves the spur lines. Well, obviously something went wrong with this procedure that has been flawless for the past 20 years and the result is this. What exactly went wrong, no one knows for sure. But most people in rails right now are more worried about our lost friend than what exactly happened at the time of the accident.

[Walt Disney World Monorail Crash. One person dead.]

My best guest would be a MAPO system failed (which is crazy, but I guess it could happen) or the pilot was somehow in override. Either way, I wonder if he might have passed out at the controls before the crash. There are headlights on the trains...how could he NOT have seen the monorail ahead of him?

 

There is a MAPO override on the console of every train...It is normal operation for a pilot to be using that at a time like this because trains are going to shop and need to use the override on the switches as there is no MAPO system on the switch. A MAPO system failure is highly unlikely as that has not happened since the new Mark VIs were added to the sytem.

 

He was 21 years old & working the late shift...more than likely that means he was part of the College Program. Sad

 

He was not a CP cast member.

 

I'm just as confused as anyone else as to why Central would ever clear one to reverse into Concourse as Pink did (*IF* this is what actually occurred).

 

Even if that happened, the pilot of purple or the cast members in the concourse station would have had plenty of time to get on the radio and tell them purple was still in the station.

 

I guess I am having a hard time reconciling why the MAPO override exists in the first place. It sort of negates the whole purpose to having a block system. If there is more regulation in this industry, which seems to be the trend, I'm sure that having a block brake system will be a requirement on ALL rides with multiple units on the same track. Overriding the system would not be allowable.

 

For the short term, att the very least, policy should be set up that if there are guests in the train, overriding the MAPO system should be grounds for immediate termination. I know that is how operators such as Six Flags and Cedar Fair work. Ideally, even then it shouldn't be overridden unless a Coordinator (disney speak for supervisor) is manning the controls. That's the policy of most other operators when they are overriding safety control systems in order to switch on or off units.

 

The MAPO override button is absolutely necessary to have in the trains. As I said, it is normal for a pilot to have to use this button, especially when they are taking a train to shop. The switch beams do not have a MAPO system on there, so they automatically register a red MAPO when trying to go over them. In order to get the train moving, the pilot needs an override. Also, the ONLY time a pilot is given permission to even touch the override button is in situations like this (taking trains to shop or moving a train to a station after being cleared in situations like trains breaking down). Like you said, if a pilot even touches the override button without permission, it is grounds for immediate termination.

 

The more I think about it, the more surprised I am that there's no e-stop button in the stations. At least, I ASSUME there aren't any. After all, there had to have been at least two CMs working the platform at the time - they must have seen monorail pink about to collide with monorail purple, so surely they would have reached for some sort of all-ride braking system button if it were available to them.

 

All platform cast members have what is called a "killpack" which can kill power in the station...However, that's kinda pointless IF the purple train was already in the station.

 

I mean, you generally don't see a lot of train transfers happening in daylight hours unless maintenance is needed.

 

You'd be surprised...When the beams first open up in the morning (on a regular day, not a busy day like a holiday), they usually put the bare minimum on the system. This is three trains on resort and two trains on Epcot (somtimes Epcot will open with 3). After they have put trains on resort and Epcot, then they beginning adding trains to the Express beam as the Express beam is the last to open. Generally, there are usually 3 trains on Express to start the day unless they are expecting a big crowd. If they start with 4 on Express but the crowds start to slown down, it is not irregular for a train to get sent from Express to Resort mid-day. If Epcot starts with 2, but crowds pick up, they will send a train from Express to Epcot mid-day as well. And towards the end of the night if the beams are 3-3-3, it's common for them to bring another train out of shop mid-day to Express so they have enough trains on Express for the close.

 

So there are many situations where they make transfers between beams in regular hours, even if a train isn't having problems. These transfers on done to handle the crowd levels more effeciently.

[Walt Disney World Monorail Crash. One person dead.]

What do you want the guy to do, its pretty obvious help was already on the way. It's not like there's a Jaws of Life laying around the monorail platform for cast members to use in this situation.

 

He was doing his job, simple as that. I'm pretty sure if there was a murder scene and somebody was taking video of it, a cop wouldn't just let them continue doing it.

[California Great America (CGA) Discussion Thread]

No, I wasn't just comparing stuff back to 1999 for the hell of it...I was talking about additions Six Flags has put into the park since they opened it (something new every year) and why that park has done nothing but get better since it opened. You don't have to tell me things about this park, I've been to both and I've always favored Six Flags Discovery Kingdom. And you're completely right, Boomerang Bay has been a very nice addition to the park, but on every occasion of me going to California's Great America, the waterpark would be absolutely packed and all the ride's would be dead. To be quite honest, it was sad walking in the front midway seeing more garbage cans than people. I'm not degrading CGA or anything, I liked the park at one point, but I just see it being a very large disadvantage to SFDK and just don't think it will be able to compete with Cedar Fair's mentality of watch and see what happens.

 

I mean if you really want to see how successful each park is, go to each of them on a Saturday and look at the crowds. I went to CGA in 2007 on a Saturday and it was dead, I go to SFDK on a Thursday last season and the entire parking lot is full before I even get there. Times are changing, Six Flags is beginning to shape up and Cedar Fair is getting worse. They might have though this Paramount acquisition was just a great thing, but I can guarantee you that they'll eventually choose to either close down or sell off a few of the parks. And as much as I hate to say it, CGA will probably be the first to go. Don't get me wrong, like I said I liked the park, I just see it as being a very large advantage. Their coaster collection is mediocre (Invertigo is my favorite, go figure) at best and the best thing going for them is the waterpark, which is pretty small in itself too. I just can't see Cedar Fair fighting for this park when they have the 49ers breathing down their necks and billions in dollars of debt to pay off.

[Kennywood (KW) Discussion Thread]

I have PR ranked higher than MF...

[Kennywood (KW) Discussion Thread]

^Why bother? Most of the ride isn't readily visible anyway. As long as the first drop and second hill look good, I don't think Kennywood's going to spend money on a new paint job.

 

Uh, maybe because they're not replacing the lift and the lift paint is going to look crappy compared to the new track paint? Why half-ass something for the sake of saving a few bucks. It's not like the park is investing tons of money on any new attractions this year, they're bringing the Bayurn Kurve back for heaven's sakes. I'd like my #1 steel coaster to look good after the retracking, not half-assed, but that's just my personal opinion.

 

I'm glad they will finally change the track to make it all Moragan. It's too confusing: Is it an Arrow? Is it a Morgan? And the track looks a little different too. The drop will probably be smoother now, and maybe even more fun? Right now it just looks like a taller version of Viper @ SFMM's drop.

 

It's not going to be ALL Morgan actually. The brake run, station and lift are all still going to have Arrow track, so its still going to be an Arrow/Morgan hybrid.

 

Also, for the people who complain that the ride is rough, sit in the front. It doesn't matter where I sit when I ride this baby, I get a good enjoyable ride each and every time I ride her. There's definitely no need for new axis', trims or anything that. She is perfect just the way she is.

[California Great America (CGA) Discussion Thread]

It took Dorney Park 6 years to expand after fighting with their neighbors on building a higher ride (Steel Force), Michigans Adventure took 4 years to fight with the city on water usage and 4 years for Cedar Fair to decide that Geauga Lake wasent profitable enough to operate a park of it's size.

 

Don't make me laugh...I think anyone could take the hint that Cedar Fair never had an intention of trying to make the rides side work at Geauga Lake from the minute they took over. Come on, we're talking about a park that was at one point competing with Cedar Fair after it got X-Flight in 2001. In the 4 years they operated the rides side, Cedar Fair didn't add anything to that side of the park to even show they had interest in keeping it open. Yeah, their PR person continued to say that they had no plans to close the park down (even throughout the 2007 season), but I think its clear Kinzel had his mind set when he took over the park. He saw all those nice and semi-new rides for $145 million and couldn't pass up on the deal. The only major work that ever went on in the rides side was minor retracking of two of the wood coasters and new paint on Thunderhawk and Texas Twister (funny those are two of the rides that ended up getting moved). Other than that, all the money the company put into the park was into the water park, which still remains open today (probably not for long though). It's funny because if they wanted to at least TRY to keep Geauga Lake running, they would have at least added some new attractions to the water park side as well. Geauga Lake experienced a 19 or so percent increase in attendance from the year when WWK opened, imagine what could have happened if Cedar Fair actually made an attempt and put some new rides into the park.

 

To be honest, I really don't see Great America remaining open much longer. I went to the park back in 2007 and its quite sad how terrible the park is compared to when I visited it many years ago under Paramount. I'm not pointing the finger at Cedar Fair, but the park is in shambles and like I said before, if Cedar Fair expects to see better attendance numbers without putting in new attractions, they are mad. Six Flags Discovery Kingdom is easily the best park in the area and has seen increases in their numbers year after year. Why you ask? Well they've added some sort of attraction every year since the purchased the park. In 1999 the park got Roar along with several flat rides, 2000 the park got the second floorless coaster with the introduction of Medusa, 2001 they got V2: Vertical Velocity, 2002 they gave V2 a facelift and introduced a new show in the Dinosphere Theater, and in 2003 they brought Zonga to the park. In 2004 after the close of the animal side of Geauga Lake, Six Flags brought Shouka the killer whale to SFDK introducing a new show surrounded around her, in 2005 they got the Ocean Discovery area with some all new marine animal exhibits, 2006 they added kiddy area Tava's Jungleland, 2007 they got another kid friendly area with Thomas Town and this year they got the new Tony Hawk's Big Spin Coaster. And next year, they're bringing back the Jungle Theater and introducing a new show, Odin's Temple of the Tiger.

 

So as you can see here, in the 10 years Six Flags has operated this park, they have introduced some sort of attraction at the park. And in that same time period they have turned attendance around completely and have brought this park into the conversation of one of the best Six Flags parks in the chain. Why is Cedar Fair failing? Well, as you pointed out look at Geauga Lake. Geauga Lake's attendance wasn't bad because the park was too big or too close to Cedar Point, it's because they didn't put a damn thing into the park except that waterpark. Yes they put in the waterpark, but you can't expect things to turn around over night (or in 3 years in the case of Geauga Lake). Attendance rose slightly but continually neglecting the ride side eventually did the park in, and I'm sure Cedar Fair TRIED to make that happen so they had a reason to blame other than Kinzel's hidden agendas. In the case of Great America, the park is horrible and hasn't received much attention even since the Paramount days. If Cedar Fair would do what Six Flags did with SFDK, I'm sure they could eventually turn things around. But that's just the thing, Six Flags has the winning formula and Cedar Fair doesn't. Why do you think all the Six Flags parks are turning things around and Cedar Fair parks are continually getting worse and worse. Just think about that....

[Kennywood (KW) Discussion Thread]

I'm curious to see if the ride's gonna get any kind of paint job for the other parts of the coaster...I just think it's going to look weird with this new track having bright new paint and the rest of the coaster having 8-year-old faded paint. Pittfall got a paint job last year and I'm praying Phantom gets one this year, I think it really needs one right about now.

[Six Flags New England (SFNE) Discussion Thread]

Maybe Scream will be next...it probably needs the refurbishment more than S:Ros or Medusa.

[Kennywood (KW) Discussion Thread]

Really cool pics, but I really hope you got permission to go on the property to take those pictures. Those large barriers blocking the old K-Mart property weren't put there for nothing you know. If management sees these pics and knows you didn't have permission, I'm sure they won't be happy that you trespassed on private property. I took a few pictures a few weeks ago, but I didn't go on the property.

[Kennywood (KW) Discussion Thread]

The people over at Kennywood Connection are always looking for conspiracy involving the Parques Reunidos purchase. They just can't accept the fact that the two families let greed blind them and sold a park that has been in their possession for the past 100 years.

[College Student Theme Park Employment]

To be honest, you shouldn't have to worry about internships your first year. I didn't start thinking about trying to get a theme park based internship as a mechanical engineer major until the summer AFTER my freshman year when I visited Disney. I decided I wanted to do the Disney College Program but wasn't sure when I was gonna get the opportunity so I applied for the hell of it and got accepted over Thanksgiving break. The only reason I am taking a semester off in the Spring to do the college program is 1) I will have all my entrance to major requirements fulfilled after this semester and 2) I'll be locked into a 12 month lease for my apartment up at Penn State University Park next semester. So I went ahead and accepted the Disney internship, not for the job, but for the experience and being able to participate in their professional development studies for engineers. I'll be working Transportation from January 12th to May 22nd down at the Walt Disney World Resort so it should be fun. But seriously, you really don't have to worry about this stuff during your freshman year. At Penn State you're not even allowed to participate in any internships until AFTER you are for sure in your major, which I will be after this semester. But other than that, good luck.

[Kennywood (KW) Discussion Thread]

Well, I'm glad phantom is getting some care, but then again i don't think this was absolutely necessary from a rider standpoint when i rode it this summer. Maybe it was structural problems with the track, and rust or something. If not i think I'd rather see them save their money... or make more phantom air hills! hahah could you imagine that? Three major layout changes on one coaster. How awesome would that be?

 

You have to take into account that this is steel we're talking about and steel is nowhere near immune to structural stress. This is the same track that has been used since 1991. That is almost 18 years of use and 18 years of stress being put on that one section. From the rider standpoint it might not seem like the ride needed it, but if Kennywood is spending the money to have this whole section of track replaced, they had to have had a very valid reason to do so. I'm sure the maintenance and the longevity of the ride were the two main reason behind the move. It's just to bad the park isn't taking advantage of this opportunity to enhance the ride even further, like adding that tunnel that never happened or even the bunny hop Morgan initially had planned for this coaster. The coaster could also use a fresh coat of paint and the station could definitely use A LOT of work. But I guess there's only so much you can do in one offseason.

[The WDW Disney College Program]

Well It took me some to decide, but I've decided to go down to participate next semester. Even though I'm going to fall behind, who knows when I'd be able to get another chance to do this thing. I'm starting to get really excited about it all. My arrival date is January 12th and I'm going to be driving down all the way from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Haven't heard anything about where I"ll be staying, but I'm hoping to get my deposit in soon so I can at least meet one of my roommates before I go down there. Hopefully transportation is really fun because I'm giving up a lot to go down and participate in this program.

[The WDW Disney College Program]

Thanks for the advice haiderodes, I definitely have a lot to consider over the next two weeks. I'm going to have to sit down with my academic adviser at school to see what he thinks. My biggest worry right now is falling so far behind in school, but regardless of what kind of internship I take up, there's always gonna be that chance of having to take a semester off of school. I think this would definitely be something great to be a part of and something that would look really good on my resume when I go to apply to other internships in the future. And after thinking about it a bit, I've come to the conclusion that driving a monorail would be really cool, even though its not a roller coaster.

[The WDW Disney College Program]

Well, I just got my acceptance packet in the mail, it only took about 2 months to hear back from Disney. I was offered a role in transportation for the Spring 2009 program, which I'd have to say definitely wasn't my first choice. I told them I wanted to do something related with my major (Mechanical Engineering) and was hoping I'd get put in rides, but things didn't work out as planned. However, since it took them so long to send me my acceptance, I'm really not sure if I'm still going to go. I already have all my classes for next semester picked out so it's definitely gonna take some thinking to decide if this is something I really want to do, considering I'm gonna be a year behind if I take next semester off to go do the college program. I also have to think about what kind of position I'm going to be offered, I mean something like operating the monorail would be REALLY cool, but transportation just seems like a really broad category and I really don't think I'd enjoy myself if I had to drive the parking lot tram all day. I don't know, I have two weeks to reply to them so I'll have a little time to think about it. Does anyone have any suggestions that could make my decision easier?

[SeaWorld Orlando (SWO) Discussion Thread]

^ Just curious but have you even been on a flyer?

 

I for one think the layout looks pretty decent. The coaster's theming and layout should offer a very nice experience and while the ride may be on the short side, it still packs a lot in for as compact as the ride may seem. Being a big fan of Tatsu, I personally cannot wait to get the chance to ride this thing. I'm interested to see how the wing dip is going to work out, and it should make the ride that much more unique.

[Could these be the final days of Six Flags?]

Six Flags Discovery Kingdom is the chain's most improved park and has set record attendance at the park the past few years...if they chose to sell the park, they would be really dumb, but I would love to see a company like Busch Entertainment take over that park and help it live it up to its potential. Its such a great park and I just feel it could be better operated by another chain, but if Six Flags did choose to sell it, I think it'd be a big mistake. They should be more worried about selling off their parks that aren't making any money, which Six Flags Discover Kingdom is actually doing.

[Kennywood (KW) Discussion Thread]

If its for a queue line, why would the markings say: "secondary bank". Also, why would they need new queue lines when the line rarely makes it down the ramp, even on the most busiest of days? That doesn't make too much sense.

[Kennywood (KW) Discussion Thread]

Yes, the Bayurns Kurve cars have been receiving rehab throughout the summer and there was some talk that it would be rebuilt at one of the Kennywood Entertainment parks this season. Although it's not completely confirmed, there is a good chance it will reappear at Kennywood next season.

[Kennywood (KW) Discussion Thread]

Although there's been no official announcement as to what the park will be receiving for the 2009 season, some regular park visitors spotted some lime green Morgan track behind the abandoned K-Mart building near the park. From what I've heard, the park is replacing all the Arrow track from the crest of the lift hill to the small portion of the second drop which is still Arrow. There's also been some talk that the length of the straightaway might be shortened and the degree of the approach lessened, but like I said nothing has been confirmed for sure yet. All we have is this picture of the track.

 

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/AML402/mylocalthemepark/coastertrackkw101808.jpg

 

There's also some other chatter about some other changes coming to the park, such as a return of an old favorite ride, but nothing has been confirmed by the park yet.

[Physics Class and Roller Coasters]

I'm currently taking Mechanics at my Penn State commonwealth college. It's the second time I've had to take the class, and I'm doing much better in it this time around. My campus is notorious for being the toughest commonwealth campus to pass Physics at in the entire Penn State University, mainly because there's only one professor who teaches Mechanics and he's very tough. Don't get me wrong, he's a good teacher when you work with him 1-on-1, but when it comes to giving lectures he's not the greatest and that might have to do with the large drop-out rate the class has. Last semester we started with about 50 people in our class, and by the end, there was probably 10-15 people left.

 

We've had a few roller coaster related problems this semester so far involving vertical loops and calculating the forces on them as well as energy on bunny hills, but all of the problems were really simple and neglected a lot of things like friction. But like many of the people here have already said, Mechanics is only small division of Physics and is only one of the Physics classes you will have to take if you are planning to major in engineering (Mechanical in my case). However, many of the same concepts return if you end up having to take engineering mechanics classes, such as statics, dynamics, strength of materials, etc.