jordanwilcox11

If you can't handle a Morgan hyper are you sure you really want them to expand their coaster offerings to include more cutting edge rides? If I were you I'd be clamoring for more benches, carousels and for them to consider offering pony rides. Look at all these Valleytards defending Valleyfail.

As soon as it exits that helix, it slams against the side every. Single. Time.

I don't care if Walter the man who sells me pizza is nice. I care if there's rides worth going on. If I wanted to go to a park I would go to Boom Island. Give me rides.

Right. But this is exactly my point. You look at a company like Apple. Every product they make is the highest quality. If these companies are going to have some parks that are not the highest quality, they should let them go and put more wood behind fewer arrows. Okay, so you think Cedar Fair should sell off a bunch of profitable parks because you personally want a B&M? Got it. No, I think Cedar Fair should sell Valleyfair and put their resources toward parks they care about, and then let a private owner take over Valleyfair like what happened with Kentucky Kingdom and put some love and care into what is currently a crater of epic fail. You think being sold guarantees getting giant new rides? Go head to the Darien Lake thread and tell them that. So little goes on in either that there aren't even Wild Waves or Elitch's threads to post in. Renegade is a great GCI. Wild Thing is a painful and boring coaster. Excalibur is pure pain. High Roller is back breaking pain. Corkscrew is lame as can be. Steel Venom is decent. Anything else I should know about? Valleyfail = Epic Fail

Adventureland became a destination park with just 1 cheap coaster. Valleyfail can't even manage that hat trick. Adventureland is not a destination park, what you need to realize is, Cedar Fair caters to the GP, not the enthusiasts. They will get the same attendance at Valleyfair whether they add a B&M Invert, a Gale Force clone, or a waterpark expansion, so Cedar Fair is going to go on the cheaper side of things, which is why you guys get good, but lower cost coasters like: Impulse Clones, GCIs, and other things like that. Actually what we get are 2 things: Jack and Squat So please, tell me about your awesome GCI, Hyper Coaster, Inverted Impulse, Classic Woodie, and your brand new Starflyer........ If you look at Valleyfairs attendance records, you will see that it remains roughly the same whether they add a huge new ride or not. So why dump the money into a large coaster when attendance stays the same, and therefore in-park guest spending stays roughly the same, and therefore the net profit stays the same. It makes no sense from a finicial standpoint to add a huge addition, when your profits won't change in any significant way, a smaller coaster (Like a Gale Force clone) would fill almost every "gap" that a $15 million more one would. A large coaster would probably hurt the park in the long run in my opinion, if they don't make any more money, but they spend an extra $15 million over a cheaper adult coaster, that's $15 million not being spent on the next couple years's: Kids land expansions, Waterpark additions, general upkeep. It makes no sense........ I would take a Gale Force level coaster. Or a Monster level coaster. Instead Matt "Disney" Ouimet gives us Jack and Squat.

Adventureland became a destination park with just 1 cheap coaster. Valleyfail can't even manage that hat trick. Adventureland is not a destination park, what you need to realize is, Cedar Fair caters to the GP, not the enthusiasts. They will get the same attendance at Valleyfair whether they add a B&M Invert, a Gale Force clone, or a waterpark expansion, so Cedar Fair is going to go on the cheaper side of things, which is why you guys get good, but lower cost coasters like: Impulse Clones, GCIs, and other things like that. Actually what we get are 2 things: Jack and Squat

Adventureland became a destination park with just 1 cheap coaster. Valleyfail can't even manage that hat trick.

Right. But this is exactly my point. You look at a company like Apple. Every product they make is the highest quality. If these companies are going to have some parks that are not the highest quality, they should let them go and put more wood behind fewer arrows. Okay, so you think Cedar Fair should sell off a bunch of profitable parks because you personally want a B&M? Got it. No, I think Cedar Fair should sell Valleyfair and put their resources toward parks they care about, and then let a private owner take over Valleyfair like what happened with Kentucky Kingdom and put some love and care into what is currently a crater of epic fail.

Right. But this is exactly my point. You look at a company like Apple. Every product they make is the highest quality. If these companies are going to have some parks that are not the highest quality, they should let them go and put more wood behind fewer arrows.

I could give 2 pennies that Valleyfail has fun theming and a marching band whistling through it. Give me a B&M. Epic fail.

I've been to 6 Flags America. That is heaven compared to Valleyfail.

I just think it's sad that I wish we were at least La Ronde as the baseline. But nope, Valleyfair has defined a new low baseline.

Greater Montreal and greater Twin Cities are both at about 4 million in population. They have 2 B&M's. Valleyfair has coasters from the days of Ben Franklin

That Valleyfair sucks goat balls.

This is a great example actually. Even a so called joke park like Six Flags La Ronde has 2 B&M's! Still 0 for Valleyfair.

If Adventureland in little Des Moines Iowa gets Monster, then the fact that a Cedar Fair park supposedly pegged for growth gets no new roller coaster in 10 years is nothing short of epic fail. They also went 23 years without getting a new roller coaster (if you count Underground, then just 20) and when they did get one, it was under $10 mil. But that's the point. It's a beautiful coaster. And the fact that it's under $10 million for such a beautiful, epic ride, and Valleyfair gets nothing of the sort, is a disgrace. Meanwhile, the sister park Cedar Point gets ride after ride after ride. You can apply your radius analysis to Sandusky Ohio and come up short of Minneapolis population wise. Valleyfair got Renegade in 2007. If you don't get another coaster for a quarter century from there (so ~2030) and it turns out to be something akin to an Infinity Coaster, I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you won't be happy about it. The Detroit-Windsor area alone nearly matches that 150 mile radius from Minneapolis. Sandusky blows it (and Carowinds) out of the water. Every Six Flags park feels like an adult park. Valleyfair feels like a children's park.

If Adventureland in little Des Moines Iowa gets Monster, then the fact that a Cedar Fair park supposedly pegged for growth gets no new roller coaster in 10 years is nothing short of epic fail. They also went 23 years without getting a new roller coaster (if you count Underground, then just 20) and when they did get one, it was under $10 mil. But that's the point. It's a beautiful coaster. And the fact that it's under $10 million for such a beautiful, epic ride, and Valleyfair gets nothing of the sort, is a disgrace. Meanwhile, the sister park Cedar Point gets ride after ride after ride. You can apply your radius analysis to Sandusky Ohio and come up short of Minneapolis population wise.

If Adventureland in little Des Moines Iowa gets Monster, then the fact that a Cedar Fair park supposedly pegged for growth gets no new roller coaster in 10 years is nothing short of epic fail.

OK So then what's the point here? Are we supposed to resign ourselves to eternal mediocrity for Valleyfair? I guess I don't understand the point of a company making a mediocre product. If I ran Cedar Fair I would focus in on the best properties and put all my resources toward building those. So if they don't care about Michigan's Adventure, then let it go and direct your resources to making Kings Dominion or Carowinds even better. If they don't care about Valleyfair, cut it loose. If they care about it, do something with it.

Because A) Charlotte is in a southern climate and has the potential of 9 month operation. Minneapolis St. Paul won't be in that position for probably 30 years, by which point food shortages will be bigger concerns to the populace. B) Extending the radius to 150 miles, you find that Charlotte has 13.1 million people within that range with a projected population growth rate of 15%. Minneapolis-St. Paul has 5.7 million people in a 150 mile range with a projected population growth rate of ~7%. Even if you extend out the radius to 250 miles from Minneapolis, you have a pretty stable 7ish percent growth rate and fewer people (11 million) than Charlotte has within 150 miles. C) Carowinds closest significant competition as the crow flies is 154 miles away (Dollywood). Valleyfair's most significant competition is 11 miles away. Valleyfair's most significant competition is open 365 days a year and is immune to bad weather. There's also a water park very close by to that competitor which is probably open around 250 days. D) Charlotte doesn't have a giant multi-day event to siphon off tourists from Carowinds in the form of a giant fair. The North Carolina Fair does just over a million people and ranks in as the US/Canada's 17th largest, but it's all the way in Raleigh, 2 1/2 hours by car. And it's in October, when the park isn't running daily operations anyhow. Valleyfair shares a metro area with the Minnesota State Fair, which runs in late August to Labor Day, AKA peak season. The Minnesota State Fair is the most attended fair outside of Texas, ranking #4 on the continent and getting over 100,000 people a day in the turnstiles and 1.9 million over its run this year. As you might expect for such a big deal, it has its own independent midway rides and attractions and will lure people away from Valleyfair right at the time Valleyfair is most wanting those guests. So basically: The demographics are bad, the location is cold, and the competition is a lot stiffer, so Cedar Fair is not going to sink millions into it the same way they do Carowinds. that's a good analysis. however, in the case of mall of america as competition, wouldn't that be incentive for valleyfair to build something distinct, i.e., a massive roller coaster, that you could never do at MoA?

A front-gate B&M would be ~$15 million. Considering Talon cost $14 million in 2006 you think the park can get a front gate B&M 10 plus years later AND redesign the front gates to be integrated with it like CP or CW for $15 million in 2018? And realistically the Dino's cannot leave until 2020 at the earliest due to their contract so just add a few more dollars and keep dreaming. Considering the park just added 'new' PTC trains to High Roller last year probably means the coaster isn't going anywhere for at least 10 years. If Matt Quimet was really worried about the safety of High Roller more would have been done last year to make it 'safe' than just adding new trains. Considering High Roller just celebrated 40 years of operations along with Excalibur's 27 years and both coasters having ZERO amputations during that time with no other accidents there are no real safety concerns here. Only your made up hyperbole. So the park is going to add a 4000 car parking lot, move and add mileage to an existing service road vital to operations of the park, fill in wetlands that would be disturbed for this move, secure the new area's of the park that were created by the moving of the service road and the new part of the waterpark, remove a coaster (Excalibur), create a new back entrance and also add some new water slides and attractions for only $20 million? Good luck with that. I am curious on this because I always think any park can use a new flat ride so I have to ask. What ride(s) exactly would be added? And where are you going to put them? I think your $50 million is way too small a budget to do what you want and not doable at all. Like Password121 said, 'Standard Capex' aka $75 million...or even higher if you ask me. And why would you want to RMC High Roller? If your going to dream, why not go big and remove High Roller and use all of the existing land already there with the 'new' land to the north of it that was created when they moved the old picnic area? You could even move the entrance of the coaster line queue while you were at it. 2.2 million people live within a 50 mile radius of Carowinds. Meanwhile, 3.2 million people (45% more) live within a 50 mile radius of Valleyfair. If Carowinds gets a $30 million coaster (Fury 325) plus so much more, why doesn't Valleyfair get a major CapEx investment as well?

A front-gate B&M would be ~$15 million. Considering Talon cost $14 million in 2006 you think the park can get a front gate B&M 10 plus years later AND redesign the front gates to be integrated with it like CP or CW for $15 million in 2018? And realistically the Dino's cannot leave until 2020 at the earliest due to their contract so just add a few more dollars and keep dreaming. Considering the park just added 'new' PTC trains to High Roller last year probably means the coaster isn't going anywhere for at least 10 years. If Matt Quimet was really worried about the safety of High Roller more would have been done last year to make it 'safe' than just adding new trains. Considering High Roller just celebrated 40 years of operations along with Excalibur's 27 years and both coasters having ZERO amputations during that time with no other accidents there are no real safety concerns here. Only your made up hyperbole. So the park is going to add a 4000 car parking lot, move and add mileage to an existing service road vital to operations of the park, fill in wetlands that would be disturbed for this move, secure the new area's of the park that were created by the moving of the service road and the new part of the waterpark, remove a coaster (Excalibur), create a new back entrance and also add some new water slides and attractions for only $20 million? Good luck with that. I am curious on this because I always think any park can use a new flat ride so I have to ask. What ride(s) exactly would be added? And where are you going to put them? I think your $50 million is way too small a budget to do what you want and not doable at all. Like Password121 said, 'Standard Capex' aka $75 million...or even higher if you ask me. And why would you want to RMC High Roller? If your going to dream, why not go big and remove High Roller and use all of the existing land already there with the 'new' land to the north of it that was created when they moved the old picnic area? You could even move the entrance of the coaster line queue while you were at it. 2.2 million people live within a 50 mile radius of Carowinds. Meanwhile, 3.2 million people (45% more) live within a 50 mile radius of Valleyfair. If Carowinds gets a $30 million coaster (Fury 325) plus so much more, why doesn't Valleyfair get a major CapEx investment as well?

LOL. Now let's compare what I said should happen each year with what will actually happen: 2017: Swing set 2018: Mow the lawn 2019: New Planet Snoopy ride 2020: Some cobblestone 2021: Army Corps of Engineers declines Valleyfair's request.

LOL. Now let's compare what I said should happen each year with what will actually happen: 2017: Swing set 2018: Mow the lawn 2019: New Planet Snoopy ride 2020: Some cobblestone 2021: Army Corps of Engineers declines Valleyfair's request.

The original Cyclone @ SFNE was far less inspired than High Roller, and look what RMC did with that. Oh really, when did you ride it? I rode it in the late 1980's and it was a phenomenal coaster with a legendary first drop. For quite a few years it was voted the number 1 wooden coaster in the world. Well given that I grew up in Milford CT 1.5 hours directly south of Agawam, I was not inspired by my rides on it.