El Toro_Ryan
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Posts posted by El Toro_Ryan
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The Nitro crew are nearing in 2 million riders for this season which will actually be the first time the ride has given 2 million riders in a single season!! Be sure to take a few extra rides on Nitro if you visit anytime during the rest of the season! Even on a crowded fright fest day, the line will move extremely fast thanks to the amazing operations!
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If the park is attempting to run 3 trains at once again, I really hope they also reprogramming the brake run so it doesn't take 10 years for trains to advance through it. Checking restraints quickly is one step of the process but a ride that dispatches/advances quickly is also an important piece of the puzzle.
Kudos to the park though if they really are trying to improve the capacity of the ride with 3 train operations. I wonder if Corporate had anything to do with this I know Cedar Fair are fans of good operations. If I had to guess, part of the reason the park went with permanent 2 train operations following the remodel was to cycle the ride less often to keep it smooth. But maybe they are satisfied with how it is aging and are okay with cycling it more often?
Also maybe the park is planning to purchase a 4th train from GCI to allow for year round 3 train operations? Can't wait to see how this unfolds.
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^ Same things why Kingda Ka has went down to a max of three trains on one side of the station instead of dual station operations - it was shown to the park that it's actually faster to just use three on one side instead of four on two sides.
Ehhh, it's not actually faster. The ride ran at a much higher capacity with dual station operations and 4 trains. But it's cheaper to run the ride with 3 trains and one station (less employees and less trains running at a time) and it also improves downtime because there are less trains launching every hour.
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I rode it 20 times, with 18 of those in a single hour.
Looks like the Toro crew had quite an hour
They must have rolled every single train! 18 rides on that thing in one hour is highly impressive. (The ride can technically only send 36 trains an hour at most.)
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Does anyone know if they’re trimming SV on the MCBR or are they letting it rip again?
When I last rode on May 29th, the MCBR was trimming ever so slightly. I believe it will always trim the train if the ride is running over a certain speed. But if you’re train is running within the “speed limit,” then you’ll most likely just fly through the MCBR without slowing down at all.
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I have a TR from Monday and Tuesday of this week that I'm finishing up (which probably isn't relevant after the practically over-night pre-station brake run upgrade video that was shown in previous posts), but after being at the park and riding Steel Vengeance with 1 train operations, I will say this...
3 train operation on this coaster really is not necessary.
The lift hill is tall, but pretty darn fast. At the speed the train is going throughout the course, with what I experienced as ZERO braking at the MCBR, it flies through the circuit. With the restraint design on RMC's which take a bit longer than let's say, B&M's to check, a 3rd train would be redundant and cause stacking.
With how finicky the RMC trains have appeared to be on this coaster (they spent half a day on Tuesday doing maintenance on restraints and doing test runs while we stood in the plaza outside the Steel Vengeance entrance) I would say a brisk 2 train operation on this ride would be just fine. Keep 1 in the transfers ready to go if one train is being a pain in the frickinass electronically or restraint-wise, and they're all good.
Even with 1 train operation, yes, the wait was a little more than you expect from Cedar Point: but it really was a less than 2 hour wait, more around 1 hour 15 minutes, if you were in the first 2 rows of the switchback queue before the straightaway. Seeing as how this ride does not have a long enough station or brake run to unload passengers at one location, to have empty trains show up and load at another like many coasters at Cedar Point (Maverick, Millennium), the ride simply does not have a layout capable of practical 3 train operation.
Hats off to the Steel Vengeance crew by the way, they really moved when the ride was actually operating, and even with 1 train operations, the line seemed to move along pretty consistently when the thing was going.
I'm going to have to disagree with you, that 3rd train is absolutely not redundant! SV takes nearly 3 minutes to fully cycle around the course. While the crew at the ride is absolutely top notch and capable of loading trains in 60 seconds flat, the length of the ride greatly reduces throughput. I have personally seen the ride run with two trains and I did not see the crew stack a train once! Kudos to the crew! However, the amount of idle time between when a train left the station and when the one behind it pulled in was very long, probably close to a minute in time. And when it came to dispatching a train, the crew was often waiting until the train on the course flew through the overbank behind the station. With this, the ride is basically limited to 2 minute dispatches when running 2 trains... which means a max hourly capacity of 720... which really means like 600-650. And with one train, you're running at 4 minute dispatches at best... so you've got a max of 360 riders per hour. If the trains held 30+ riders, this limitation on cycles wouldn't be as big of an issue.
With two trains you basically wait for a train to arrive in a station, quickly load that train, then wait again until the train on the course clears a certain section, and then you can dispatch. Where as with three trains, there will be no delay of waiting for a train to arrive in the station. There will always be a train stacked behind the station or one rolling through the brake run. And with the quick lift hill, once the crew is done loading a train they will be able to send it right away. With three trains, I believe the ride is capable of dispatching every 72 seconds.. compared to 120 seconds with 2 trains. This is how you get your max capacity of 1200... which probably translates to around 950-1050 in the real world.
Running two trains and having the third as a backup makes sense, but just not at Cedar Point and not with the demand the ride already has. While the line may seem manageable now, it will grow out of hand once Summer and Halloweekends come around. A full Q with one train running is probably well over 4-5 hours in length. And if that happens, we will absolutely see boarding passes return. The ride should be properly designed and capable of running all 3 trains at all times and that is what RMC and Cedar Point are currently striving towards. And yes, the ride does have a long enough layout that warrants 3 train operations. Steel Vengeance is extremely comparable to Valravn (24 passenger trains, single load station, 3 train operations). And Steel Vengeance actually has an even longer layout and cycle time than Valravn. And while the brake run may seem short, that is because trains have not been decelerating as quickly as they should have been. RMC has since addressed this issue and I am very confident we will see 2 train operations return very shortly! And then 3 train operations will hopefully follow not too long after that!
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I think the fact that Cedar Point advertises this ride to run three trains is enough to prove that the brake run is long enough to hold them. As ZeroGravity said, the train can comfortably stop on the final brake run, therefore there are two blocks before the station. If this was not true, and a train would have to stop on the Mid Course every time there was a slow dispatch, I think it's fair to say that they wouldn't run three trains. Running three trains but sacrificing the intensity of the 2nd half of the ride for a fair bit of it's riders doesn't sound like something Cedar Point would do.
Absolutely. The ride has 6 block sections: station, transfer track, lift hill, mid course brake run, safety brake, waiting brake. The safety brake is the first section of the final brake run that brings the train to a stop. Trains are able to stack here. The waiting brake the is holding area right before the station so the final brake run is definitely capable of holding two trains. (Random fun fact but if Steel Vengeance were built back in the 70s/80s, it may have been built so that trains would stack on the midcourse brake run if dispatches were not fast enough. Gemini, Iron Dragon, and Magnum Xl are all examples of this. The reason rides were built like that was to quite literally force high throughput. Something like that could really only work back in that time period however.)
Regarding the magnetic brakes, I believe Steel Vengeance and Twisted Timbers use a new generation of magnetic brakes. From what it seems, the original magnetic brakes that were installed were not strong enough to fully stop a train. I have heard RMC came in and completely replaced all the magnetic brakes on the final brake run with more powerful ones, hence the harder stop. The drive tires are placed on the brake run because the brake run is completely flat so they are necessary to get trains moving again once they have stopped. And now it appears that RMC will be replacing the newer generation pinch brakes used on Steel Vengeance with what looks like the older generation pinch brakes. It seems there was a lot of issues with the new hardware components that RMC released with these rides but they seem to be getting it all sorted out.
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RMC seems to have made some major updates to Steel Vengeance's Final Brake Run! Hopefully we'll have two train operations back shortly!
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Speaking of which, the crew on Nitro yesterday was amazing. Bill caught this pic to illustrate to you guys how fast they were sending out trains. It was a sight to see. They were actually waiting for the train to clear the lift block and immediately sending the next one.
The Nitro crew is aiming for 2 million riders for the year so they should be pumping out trains like this all season long!
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Does anyone know what time the lottery tickets for Passholder FrontierTown Hoedown days go live tomorrow?
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Awesome trip report man! Thanks for including my video in it!
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Did TT valley because it was cold in the morning? National Weather Service says it was 33 F at 7 am today at Ashland, nearby. How long does it take for RMC rails to warm up to be able to run properly?
I think the cold temperatures were definitely a factor. I know the ride had actually been running top fast the day before and the park may have tried to counteract the overspeeds with a change in the suspension system on the trains or the wheel setups.
I don’t know if the track itself causes as many issues in the cold but I know the type of wheel and grease highly affect performance in colder temps.
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Instead of a trip report, here's a vlog I filmed over opening weekend at Kings Dominion!
(Warning: If you are looking for good information about Kings Dominion, this is not the video to watch. But if you have a sense of humor and are looking to kill 12 minutes, this is the perfect video for you.)
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Thanks guys!! I live in NJ so the real HangTime is too far away. I had to add it to my bedroom.
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While we wait for the real HangTime to open, here's my plastic version of it!
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Have the received any Tourbillion parts up there at SFGAdv yet. Here at SFOT, the parts are just sitting behind a fence waiting to be assembled, which they probably won't do for some time yet.
Parts have began to arrive and are sitting in the employee parking lot.
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I'm hoping that CP caps off the amount of attendees for the Passholder Preview days so that after everyone gets their one guaranteed ride on SV, there is still time for additional rides after! Either way it's an awesome opportunity to hopefully skip the major wait times the ride will have all season.
My friend and I already called out of work for Wednesday May 2nd and are driving out from NJ for the event.
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An employee from Knott's posted on Reddit that some of his coworkers are being scheduled to work Xcelerator starting Saturday with the intent to open the ride by then. Hopefully that holds true!
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Sorry for the double post. Here are some videos of Ka.
Since 2011, Ka has ran with only 3 trains and only uses one loading platform on just one side of the station. This video was filmed in 2013 before Zumanjaro was added to the picture. Fun fact, 2013 was the only year Ka ever did 1 million riders in a single season. The ride had an extra block added in 2011 behind the station that previously did not exist when the ride used both stations and ran 4 trains. This technically boosted the theoretical capacity of the ride as it allowed trains to be launched every 56 seconds rather than 60. (It doesn't mean this higher capacity was easily achievable though.) With 3 trains, the ride on average ran at a lower capacity than with 4 train operations. But because there were less trains being launched every hour, there was less downtime (on average). To get an idea of how many more trains launched an hour with 4 train operations, see below.
This video is actually from 2005 when the ride ran all 4 trains and used both sides. You can even hear the airhorn going off like it used to every single launch. Back then, the ride would dispatch a pair of trains from one side of the station while the other side loaded its pair of trains. Let's say it starts with the left station. The left station would dispatch 2 trains while the right station loaded 2 trains. Once the 2nd train from the left station cleared the tower, the transfer track in front of the station would switch from left station to right station. Once it locked in place, you could dispatch 2 trains from the right station. As the trains from the right station were advancing into the launch and transfer track positions, the 2nd train from the left station would be entering the station. Once it parked in the station, the transfer track behind the station would slide from the left station to right station.. which allowed the trains from the right station to begin launching (as long as the 2nd train from the right station was fully outside the station because of the old block system). It was awesome to watch!
And I highly doubt 4 train operations will ever return so don't ask!
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Super quick dispatches!! Looks like they were averaging around 1 minute and 11ish seconds between cycles which comes out to a little over 1,200 rph. Pretty impressive for a ride that runs two 24 passenger trains!
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Nice pictures! Valkyria looks like its coming along great. It's also nice to see Balder with a few missing track pieces on the first drop and second airtime hill. Glad to know Liseberg does maintenance on their prefab unlike that other European park.
photo cred: lond
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^ well the good news is you get an extra hour with the time zone change for Holiday World! -- Good luck with that plan! Have you been to Holiday World or Holiwood Nights before? It's an awesome event 8) it's just too bad you'll have such limited time at CP.
That's right! That extra hour means more coaster time! And I actually went to Holiwood Nights last year. We didn't have plans to go to Coastermania this year but as soon as we saw the morning ERT, we decided we needed to go to that too. I'll be at CP plenty this year so I think we'll be okay with just a few hours there. Another year will definitely be committed to a full day at Coastermania.
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I’m pretty sure that wooden structure is going to be the exit building/gift shop. The queue is going to wind back and forth in the middle of the ride with canopy covers, according to the guy at the announcement. Thanks for the update!
We still don't know exactly where the queue will begin. The renderings seem pretty vague on that. Maybe it begins at that building before continuing out under the ride. Could be the exit to. It's hard to tell but it looks pretty big too just be a photo booth/gift shop. Plus I don't see them having that big a gift shop. We'll see.
Looks like the quene will start directly under the double down according to this rendering.
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Me and some buddies plan on doing morning ERT at Coastermania and then driving 6 hours to Holiday World for Holiwood Nights. Is this anyone else's plan?
Hersheypark (HP) Discussion Thread
in Theme Parks, Roller Coasters, & Donkeys!
Posted
For Kingda Ka, it’s impossible to dispatch the train with a single OSTR open. They all have to be in a verified position just like El Toro. From what I’ve seen with Storm Runner, it’s the same way so this incident doesn’t sound possible one bit.
You can actually dispatch Dragster with open lapbars but Dragster is a generation older than the newer Intamins with a verify if that makes sense.