Dr. M
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Posts posted by Dr. M
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Banshee's so big you'll feel like it's trying to puncture your bladder. Gotta love that stabby feeling. En garde!
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I don't think there's much point in analyzing the layout at least until we have a better POV, but I do have one thought...
If I were to picture my perfect roller coaster, and it seems like RMC really is trying to build "perfect roller coasters", there's one thing this ride is missing, as awesome as it looks. And that's El Toro's suicide hills, two big ones, back to back. They're special not just because of the speed you maintain going over the top, but their sheer size means that in the back you get that face-ripping airtime practically all the way down to the bottom. This ride looks like it keeps with RMC's tendencies to have lots of little pops of extreme airtime, but I'm missing the one giant hill, one singular moment of extended ejector airtime. It's something I'd really like to see RMC attempt at some point. Bunny hops are fun and all, but you need that height to get airtime that lasts.
This is having not ridden Outlaw Run though, maybe if I did I'd forget all about this minor quibble.
Does anyone know why with both this and Outlaw Run they have that little hill right before the first drop? Seems like it would be more intense without it, if you hit the first drop at a faster speed.
EDIT: One thing I do love is it looks like you hit that last inversion with a ton of speed, which is kind of new for RMC. Ok yes I'm totally analyzing the layout now, sorry.
Wildfire does look a bit similar to El Toro in this way. A slow turn around at elevation before a near vertical drop followed by two ejector hills, except with Wildfire you're not right side up at the top of the ejector hills. New and improved Toro ... but with more twistyness, more elements, terrain and inversions.
The only way this won't be the World's #1 coaster is if RMC builds something better for 2015.
Watching the video with the interview of Fred Grubb there seemed to be a hint that this is their next topper track coaster (as in, no topper track for 2015). Perhaps that means 2015 will just be Iron track refurbishments (Colossus? Boss? Riverside Cyclone?). Perhaps I misunderstood and they will have a topper track ride for 2015.
The most important question - will it have seat belts?
(just kidding)
I think you might misunderstand me. I'm not saying Wildfire is all that similar to El Toro, I'm just pointing out a particular element that this coaster lacks, that I think it should have. Because it's one of the most exciting coaster elements I've ever experienced and with all this track length it seems like an obvious thing to put in.
Just playing coaster designer, I like doing that.
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Lucky me, the only ride I've ridden that's really terribly rough is Wildcat at Hershey (I love it anyway). Rolling Thunder wasn't that rough when I rode it, the very last day of its operation. I didn't think Meanstreak was too bad at all either, the roughest coaster at Cedar Point is easily Corkscrew.
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What are suicide hills?
That's my name for giant hills with extremely steep drops that feel like they're going to kill you.
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It's called a "moment" or "torque", and will be equal to lateral forces with a magnitude proportional to the distance from the axis of rotation. That it, it will be unevenly distributed about your body. In a heartline twist, for example, your head and feet will feel forces in opposite directions, with the strongest forces at the extremes of your body. Your body will also experience 'centrifugal' forces, a reaction to centripetal forces holding you in place (from the restraints or the rest of your body), so you will also experience (mostly vertical, compared to your body) forces outward from the axis of rotation.
A lateral force from an unbanked or underbanked turn, like on thunderbolt @ kennywood will produce lateral forces evenly distributed across your body, with no vertical component.
Edits: some corrections
Thanks for the answer, this makes a lot of sense. So they really are two different things, because the way they're experienced is completely different. Your body in a heartline twist is actually trying to go in two directions at once... that's kind of crazy to think about.
For the record, it doesn't bother me if people want to call it "lateral force", but I do think it's important that people are aware there's a difference. Knowledge rocks.
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I don't think there's much point in analyzing the layout at least until we have a better POV, but I do have one thought...
If I were to picture my perfect roller coaster, and it seems like RMC really is trying to build "perfect roller coasters", there's one thing this ride is missing, as awesome as it looks. And that's El Toro's suicide hills, two big ones, back to back. They're special not just because of the speed you maintain going over the top, but their sheer size means that in the back you get that face-ripping airtime practically all the way down to the bottom. This ride looks like it keeps with RMC's tendencies to have lots of little pops of extreme airtime, but I'm missing the one giant hill, one singular moment of extended ejector airtime. It's something I'd really like to see RMC attempt at some point. Bunny hops are fun and all, but you need that height to get airtime that lasts.
This is having not ridden Outlaw Run though, maybe if I did I'd forget all about this minor quibble.
Does anyone know why with both this and Outlaw Run they have that little hill right before the first drop? Seems like it would be more intense without it, if you hit the first drop at a faster speed.
EDIT: One thing I do love is it looks like you hit that last inversion with a ton of speed, which is kind of new for RMC. Ok yes I'm totally analyzing the layout now, sorry.
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Some people might think this is a nitpicky question, and I suppose it is, but still it's kind of a gray area I've never seen discussed. A lot of people refer to the force you feel during lightning-quick twists like on Maverick and I305 as "lateral force", but is that really what it is? Lateral force is the force that pushes you side to side, like on the switchbacks of a wild mouse. Coasters like the Voyage are designed with some of the turns intentionally under-banked so you feel a combination of lateral and positive Gs. But on Maverick, all of the turns are fully banked so you're not really feeling laterals at all, it's all positive. Is the force of the transitions between the turns really lateral force, or is it something else? Pretend for a moment that you weren't strapped in, during the transitions you wouldn't be pushed to the side of the car, you'd be totally ejected out away from the train, right? So it seems to me like it must be something different. Is it worth making a distinction between the two?
A question for physics nerds and overly analytical people like me, I guess.
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^I actually really enjoyed Cedar Fair's post, it had this sort of dadaist quality to it.
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This insane fanboyism is driving me nuts. My park is better than your park! No! My park is better than yours! I got news for you! MM is GAdv, is GAm, is FT, is oT, is DK, is oG, is NE, is Am, blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda! You know what? They all have a 6F before their name. Which puts them all in the same category. "We're your regional amusement park, buy a season pass and spend money here!
(Drops mic and walks away.)
I really don't agree with this at all (and I usually agree with your posts). The parks usually have a similar feel to them, but the coaster and ride collections vary greatly. If you compare a park like Great Adventure to a park like Great Escape or Six Flags DIscovery Kingdom you can't tell me there isn't an enormous difference in the quality of the coasters.
I think the main point is just that the whole debate over which park is better is kind of dumb because they all have their various strengths and weaknesses, and many of those strengths and weaknesses line up because they're all Six Flags, and are nowhere near each other so there's not much point in comparing them to begin with. It all just leads to pointless feather-ruffling and crazy statements about El Toro's ending.
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I'm putting my faith in Hershey or SFGAdv, I think one of them will get an RMC, it's really only a matter of when.
In other news, now this is not in any way a complaint or criticism, I'm sure it's going to be amazing, but I was wondering if anyone else thinks the pacing on this looks looser and more drawn out than any other RMC we've seen thus far.
EDIT: The difference is not as big as what I thought when I first watched the POV, the ride is still very action-packed. I think if they tried to keep up the insane energy level of Outlaw Run for the entirety of a ride this long they'd end up killing people.
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I have no moneeeeeeeyyyyy
Then you picked the wrong hobby buddy! No I know it's hard and expensive but you just have to save every extra penny you can and you'd be surprised how much you can come up with!
Everybody on this forum is at a different point in their life. As it happens, I graduated from college last year with a degree in music, of all things. This may be news to some people but the economy ain't so great and the cost of living is pretty high in the city. In fact, I have yet to even move out of my parents' because as luck would have it, they were both music majors as well and most of the money I've been making at my dead-end factory job has been going to help support them until my mother finishes her teaching certification and can find a job of her own. The money I've scrimped and saved this winter (that isn't going towards a down-payment on an apartment) is just enough to cover a four-hour trip to King's Dominion this coming weekend. And after I move out of my folks'? Between perpetually entry-level work, college loan payments, and any extra money going towards my music career, do you think I'm going to be able to afford a fabulous trip to Scandinavia any time soon? Without racking up a mountain of credit card debt, which I would never do? Maybe some day, but not any time in the foreseeable future.
This is the life I've chosen and I'm not complaining, and I know you didn't ask for my life's story, but this is all to say that it's definitely a little presumptuous to imply that everybody would be able to do these trips if only they were a little more frugal and cared about coasters more. I'm sure many others on this forum are in similar situations.
And besides, even if I could go, I don't think it's unreasonable to wish that one were built closer so you could ride it multiple times a year rather than once or twice in a lifetime.
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Looks pretty sweet! Now they just need to build one this big and awesome in Americaaaaaaa........ preferably in Pennsylvaniaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...........
Or maybe you just need to traaaaaaaaaaaavel!
I have no moneeeeeeeyyyyy
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Looks pretty sweet! Now they just need to build one this big and awesome in Americaaaaaaa........ preferably in Pennsylvaniaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...........
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I hope it ends up justifying 47 pages about a teaser trailer. I mean my god.
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I'm planning on heading to Kings Dominion next weekend for the first time. It's been a very long time since I've been to a park this early in the season, and was wondering if it will have any effect on how the coasters ride. I doubt I305 could be running much slower than normal, but do you think any of the others might feel a bit sluggish?
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My question is... What is worse reusing Goliath for every "marquee roller coaster even if they are not the same" or copying the same rides in multiple parks? (Like Disney does with "Magic Kingdom" style parks and a lot of their rides)
One thing you can't say about Six Flags is that each one of their parks isn't different. (for better or worse.)
I don't really have a problem with SF cloning rides to fill out each park's coaster collection, and if it's a cloned ride then there's no reason it shouldn't have the same name as all the other clones. I enjoy Batman every time I go to SFGAdv, the fact that there's thirteen or whatever other Batmans across the country doesn't detract from my enjoyment of it.
But big unique coasters should have big unique names, and fit in with the theming of the area of the park they're in. And different coasters of wildly different coaster types should not share the same name. Every coaster named "Goliath" is a missed opportunity to come up with a better name. No it doesn't really detract from my enjoyment of the ride, but it's still lame.
^Medusa, Superman Ultimate Flight, Green Lantern: First Flight, Bizzarro, etc.Alright let's get the superhero thing out of the way first. Superheroes can fit just about anywhere and still work. You could easily change Storm Runner or Top Thrill Dragster to Incredible Hulk, Flash, or Avengers and with a few props and signs, it would still fit. Same with villians. It doesn't matter where they're placed or if they follow any theme at a Six Flags park. Kings Dominion has a bobsled and a NASCAR themed ride in the safari area for crying out loud. Most of the other Cedar Fair parks are a mishmash of random theming too. Even CGA has a jet-themed ride in the Orleans area of the park.
As for Medusa, I personally love the Medusa name. Plenty of rides are named after Roman/Greek mythology. You've got Hades, Zeus, Apollo, Hydra, plus plenty of others. I don't see how it can't fit on any other ride.
Deja Vu is a weird one, but I actually like that name. It's original enough, even if GAdv did stick it on a random flat. Since none of the Deja Vu clones exist as Deja Vu, I'll say it's original.
I actually like Mind Eraser as a name. It's just too bad there's too many coasters with that name out there.
I like the Zumanjaro name. I could care less about the Drop of Doom tagline, but it's really growing on me.
And that brings us back to this.
Still have yet to hear an example as gratuitous as that lovely unique coaster in Illinois being named Goliath.Great America's Goliath is the biggest of its kind. It breaks a few records. I think it fits. I actually dig the Goliath name anyway. As with Mind Eraser, I wish there weren't as many coasters with that name.
I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to defend them. Whether or not the names that are getting recycled are good names is beside the point. SF isn't recycling them because they're good names, they're recycling them because they don't want to pay to trademark another name, they're woefully uncreative, they refuse to take risks, and they don't trust their parks to develop any personality of their own. You love the name Medusa more than they do, to them it's just an asset. I'm not sure what you see here that's worth defending.
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^And some people like to actually enjoy a ride without it ripping their spleen apart.
"Extensive Retracking and Regular Maintenance" is something this park can never do, and most parks can't afford. So you're pretty much out of luck if you want more parks to build big wooden coasters that don't turn to crap.
Topper track will save rides and keep some options open. Learn to like it or move along.
If Holiday World and Knoebels can afford it, why can't every park? People around here love to rag on the Voyage, but plenty of others disagree and HW does everything they can to keep it rideable. And that's not the only example of big wooden coasters that haven't turned to crap. You can't tell me I need to learn to love topper track until it's a more standard thing that lots of parks have invested in, which thus far is not the case. RMC can save broken-down mediocre rides that don't have particularly unique or exciting layouts to begin with. The Beast, Voyage, and certainly Hades do not need it.
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^F*ck topper track. I'm sick of hearing about how every old/rough wooden coaster would be so much better with topper track. Some people actually like their wooden coasters a little rough around the edges, thanks.
Not that I'm saying it should stay how it is. All it needs is extensive retracking and regular maintenance.
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^^^The difference between two and three trains is drastically smaller than the difference between one and two, it would definitely not be worth it to heavily modify the ride to run three.I don't think they ever test their rides before opening. I'm 100% sure our first train on Hades360 ERT was the first train of that day we visited. For those who wish to go there, Little Amerricka is better.
Hope that man will wake up from his coma.
Bay Beach is better than Mt. Olympus. At least they know wooden coasters can run 2 trains on purpose. I hope that man sues the park and I hope Mt. Olympus realizes the error of their ways.
Um, the guy could be dead by now for all we know. The place doesn't need to be sued, it needs to be shut down.
They don't need to be shut down, They need to be sold to a management that knows how to operate parks. Merlin or Palace would work wonders.
That would be the more desirable option. I'm one of the ones who thinks Hades' layout has more potential than most other wooden coasters in existence.
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Ok you can hate on Six Flags for a lot of things, but hating on them for reusing names when practically every other chain does it is NOT a good reason to hate on them.
Disney does it. Uni does it. Cedar Fair does it and they do it for their major attractions too.
Transformers, Revenge of the Mummy, Drop Tower, Flight Deck, Windcrapper Somethinghawk, Space Mountain, Pirates of the Caribbean, etc.
Again, it doesn't count if they're the same ride or almost the same ride, in that case why shouldn't they have the same name? I don't believe any ride was named Flight Deck when it opened. Still have yet to hear an example as gratuitous as that lovely unique coaster in Illinois being named Goliath.
No this is not that big a deal, but no one can tell me any other chain has anywhere near as many awful examples when it comes to naming major attractions (Boo Blasters is not a major attraction). Zumanjaro: Drop of Doom. Why drop of doom? Because their other big drop ride across the country is Drop of Doom, and it might sell more T shirts. Weak.
The superhero names maybe? But those can fit just about anywhere.Dude, they only fit anywhere because SF makes them fit anywhere. Does it make any sense to have a DC themed ride out past the mine ride, across the park from all the other DC theming (Bizarro)? No, of course not. SF doesn't give a crap about what makes sense or gives a park a sense of order and flow. They just jam their shitty DC crap in wherever they want because it sells T shirts.
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Very glad to hear he's out of the coma. Here's hoping he makes a full recovery. Four bad lap bars... christ.
I'm certainly not making excuses for Mt. O, but I do find the weight violation a little odd. How are the operators supposed to know if the cars are overweight? It's not like they have giant scales like on Flying Turns. I assume standard procedure would be if all the riders fit, they're good to go.
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Good to hear the man has come out of his coma and I hope he recovers to the best of his abilities.
Where did you read that? The article which was posted Tuesday states:
Theisen remains at UW Hospital in a coma and on a respirator, according to the family’s attorney Todd Korb of the Milwaukee Law Firm of Hupy and Abraham.I'm no doctor (no real doctor anyway) but I'd say given his age and how long he's been in a coma, his chances are "not great". At best he faces months, possibly years of painful recovery. It's not like the movies where you just wake up and suddenly you're back to normal.
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Still nothing about criminal charges. You can't tell me the park is a-ok as long as it doesn't happen again, that makes no sense. I'm assuming there will be more to this story.
DSPS does not have the power to assess fines, but can only order complianceThese are the only people we've heard from so far. I guess fines and possible charges will come later.
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^what they meant was one coaster is named Intimidator 305 (KD) and the other one is just Intimidator (Carowinds)...Intimidator at Carowinds is not 305 feet tall so that wouldnt make much sense now would it?
Oh sorry, I thought it was called that. But the point is Six Flags is not the only company that uses the same names on multiple rides, Cedar fair hasn't done it since the additions of Wind seekers. But we do have a CEO who wants each park to be different. So it probably won't happen again.
Who cares if every wind seeker at CF parks all have the same name? You can't pretend that's the same thing as calling a major headlining coaster "Goliath" when there's like a dozen other coasters with the same name. Name me one time any other chain has done that with a major groundbreaking coaster. Intimidator doesn't count because it's not exactly the same name and both coasters opened around the same time, making them more like "sister coasters".
This all has to do with SF making all of their parks as homogeneous and uniform as possible. If there is such a thing as "artistic integrity" when it comes to the theme park experience, SF is the very antithesis of that.
Grandma rides her first coaster
in Theme Parks, Roller Coasters, & Donkeys!
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Looks like her first ride won't be her last.
Only ride I took with a grandparent was with my grandpa on the Phoenix. Let's just say he was not laughing the whole time.