Cedar Fair Corporate Development Discussion Thread (FUN)

There are a myriad of reasons that Cedar Fair has no incentive to ever sell that park. First and foremost it's profitable and they never have to spend any money on it to keep it profitable. They just do nothing, open the gates, make a bunch of money, close after Labor day and repeat process year after year. It's not ideal for us but it's great for them.

In addition it doesn't compete with Cedar Point and it's proximity to Cedar point probably helps them sell their most expensive pass for anyone that wants to travel to both. They also use them as a staffing pool for Halloweekends at Cedar Point since they close after Labor day.

It's really probably a perfect scenario for them.

^Not just after Labor Day, they use their staff before Memorial Day too.

I just don't get the complaints about ride names and themes. The name of a ride does nothing to change the enjoyment of a ride. Weather it's called Batman or flight deck, what's the difference? I am beyond myself how this could even bother someone in the least.

 

And as far as theming goes, how can you not like a ride that is in a themed environment? And it's not like the rides are over themed. As a matter of fact, most of the superhero themed coasters are basically just named after a superhero and painted in the same color as said superhero. They may have a few random pieces of scenery or theming elements, but it's far from being overblown. It's funny, because you never hear people complaining about an over theming issue at universal, Disney, SeaWorld, Busch, Hershey, legoland, worlds of fun, carowinds, knotts berry farms, Dollywood, silver dollar city...ect...ect. It only seems to be about six flags for some reason. I think it's because it's the "cool thing to do", and not really because you actually care.

 

The complaint from many, including myself, is that the current Six Flags installs new rides themed to DC characters without any regard for the theming the park already has. IE installing Supergirl in the Britannia section at SFSTL. Cedar Fair has been working more towards coherent area theming while Six Flags has been moving towards everything being a superhero ride while creating a thematic mashup with the existing themes in areas. I'm much more of a fan of Kings Island putting a spacey themed ride named Orion into X Base than I would be if it were called Superman in X Base, which is almost certainly what would have happened if Six Flags bought Cedar Fair a year ago....

Cedar Fair and theming??

Cedar Fair and theming??

Mystic and Twisted Timbers have better theming than much of what Six Flags is putting out.

The complaint from many, including myself, is that the current Six Flags installs new rides themed to DC characters without any regard for the theming the park already has. IE installing Supergirl in the Britannia section at SFSTL. Cedar Fair has been working more towards coherent area theming while Six Flags has been moving towards everything being a superhero ride while creating a thematic mashup with the existing themes in areas. I'm much more of a fan of Kings Island putting a spacey themed ride named Orion into X Base than I would be if it were called Superman in X Base, which is almost certainly what would have happened if Six Flags bought Cedar Fair a year ago....

A space-themed area would be one of the least-worst places for Six Flags to slap a DC Comics theme on a ride.

Cedar Fair and theming??

Mystic and Twisted Timbers have better theming than much of what Six Flags is putting out.

They have cute little trinkets n stuff, but let's keep it real, neither chain is better than the other when it comes to "theming". Cedar Fair does a lot of things better than Six Flags, theming isnt one of them

I wouldn't call posting signs along a queue giving bios of comic characters theming either. lol

I wouldn't call posting signs along a queue giving bios of comic characters theming either. lol

That's my point, neither one of them are stellar in the theming dept.

I'm glad to hear the deal was turned down so we can continue to have debates about whose food is better.

I enjoy both brands and have pro and cons for both. I suspect, as consumers, we would miss the competition the most. Competition is needed to keep things moving, keep pricing in check, and give us choices.

For me, this would be my biggest gripe with the merger of the two companies. I think competition has made their respective parks better, especially in markets like Northern and Southern California. I also like the two different strategies that the companies have regarding CapEx. I love that CF is still building huge coasters like Fury, Yukon Striker, and Orion. But I also love that SF makes sure every park gets something new every year, which keeps the passholders happy and makes me excited to keep visiting year after year.

I can see a lot of negatives to the merger with the only positive being a single pass for all of the SF/CF parks. However, that combined pass would probably cost significantly more than I'm currently paying, which would then make it a negative. Thankfully, it looks like CF rebuffed the offer from SF, if it was even a serious offer in the first place.

Y’all know you can get a SF membership for $8 per month, right? Was anyone really excited about the prospect of a CF-SF combined pass?

I personally was not excited about the combined pass, since I have little desire to go to any SF Parks that I've already been to, and the (presumably) lower price point would bring in more riff-raff (and crowds in general) than the current CF Platinum pass does. Though I have to say, after spending a truly great evening at KI tonight, the lower-priced CF-park-specific Gold Pass is not helping the crowd issues.

Cedar Fair and theming??

Mystic and Twisted Timbers have better theming than much of what Six Flags is putting out.

They have cute little trinkets n stuff, but let's keep it real, neither chain is better than the other when it comes to "theming". Cedar Fair does a lot of things better than Six Flags, theming isnt one of them

Knotts does themeing fairly well. Cedar Fair can do it. It's just that they don't have parks besides Knotts that really NEED themeing to thrive.

I also think that if this deal was an all cash deal, Cedar Fair would have done it at $70/share. So the saga may ultimately not be over...

I just don't get the complaints about ride names and themes. The name of a ride does nothing to change the enjoyment of a ride. Weather it's called Batman or flight deck, what's the difference? I am beyond myself how this could even bother someone in the least.

 

And as far as theming goes, how can you not like a ride that is in a themed environment? And it's not like the rides are over themed. As a matter of fact, most of the superhero themed coasters are basically just named after a superhero and painted in the same color as said superhero. They may have a few random pieces of scenery or theming elements, but it's far from being overblown. It's funny, because you never hear people complaining about an over theming issue at universal, Disney, SeaWorld, Busch, Hershey, legoland, worlds of fun, carowinds, knotts berry farms, Dollywood, silver dollar city...ect...ect. It only seems to be about six flags for some reason. I think it's because it's the "cool thing to do", and not really because you actually care.

The parks offer two similar, but different products. Some people prefer the product Cedar Fair offers over Six Flags. That doesn't necessarily mean they don't like Six Flags. There are clear differences between the two chains. At some point you have to realize you're arguing over personal preferences. You like Six Flags. Good for you.

the (presumably) lower price point would bring in more riff-raff (and crowds in general) than the current CF Platinum pass does.

I think it probably does bring in people with lower incomes and I have no issue with that. The affordability is a good thing for most families who don't have the extra spending cash to travel. Most of the adults I see are really well behaved.

On the other hand, I'm not trying to sound like a grandpa, but my issue with the lower cost is that it's more affordable for teens. Not only do the parents drop their kids off at the park to use it as a babysitter, but you also have other kids who can afford the passes on their own. I've experienced that the kids seem to be louder, more obnoxious, yelling and cursing across the midway, and verbally or physically fighting. Being surrounded by a ton of loud kids in a queue makes my wife and I feel more out of place. At CF parks I notice more adults our age.

Yeah, young teenagers was the kinda riff-raff I was referring to.

I figured as much.

I'm happy this isn't happening. More variety is better.

Looks like Cedar Fair had a good year.

2019 Highlights

-Net revenues increased 9% to a record $1.47 billion; same-park net revenues were up 6%.

-Attendance at Cedar Fair's parks increased 8% to a record 27.9 million guests; same-park attendance increased 5%.

-In-park per capita spending increased 1% to a record $48.32; in-park per capita spending on a same-park basis was up 1%.

-Out-of-park revenues were up 11% to a record $169 million; same-park out-of-park revenues increased 8%.

-Net income increased 36%, or $46 million, to $172 million and Adjusted EBITDA increased 8%, or $37 million, to $505 million. On a same-park basis, net income increased 27%, or $34 million, and Adjusted EBITDA3 increased 5%, or $21 million.

-Through Dec. 31, 2019, sales of 2020 season passes and related all-season products, are up more than 40% from the same time last year.

It also says that record season pass programs accounted for 53% of total attendance mix.

Read the whole thing here at: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cedar-fair-reports-record-results-090000807.html

I really didn't expect that given the SIX numbers. Obviously the 8% on it's own was a little tough to interpret but the same-park numbers are incredibly solid. Remember that Wonderland added Winterfest so there are more operating days but that doesn't even come close to explaining 5%... not even close. There's no way to interpret this other than they just killed it this year. This is just all-around great news.

Unfortunately now this will just open the door for stupid enthusiast opinions about why FUN performed so much better than SIX where the prevailing theories are everything they personally don't like about SIX that have been constant for decades. I'm not ready for this crap again.

Cedar Fair is dumb: part 3,472

Meanwhile... at regional parks that decided to not close right before a Holiday week 

And down the road from Kings Dominion...

So odd.

Strange. Also, I found this video that interviews Cedar Fair corporate, so maybe there are answers in there https://youtu.be/k0O4qokpYs0 ??

Cedar Fair has revealed their plans for the 2022 operating season for their parks, including a updated area (with a new coaster) at Kings Dominion, a 50th anniversary celebration at Kings Island and more offerings at their parks across North America.

https://ir.cedarfair.com/news/news-details/2021/Cedar-Fair-Unveils-Exciting-Plans-for-2022-Operating-Season-Including-Upgraded-Safari-Village-Area-at-Kings-Dominion-50th-Anniversary-Celebration-at-Kings-Island-Fun-Filled-Seasonal-Events-and-Upgraded-Lodging-and-Dining-Venues/default.aspx

Cedar Fair Entertainment Company (NYSE: FUN), a leader in regional amusement parks, water parks and immersive entertainment, today announced exciting plans for the 2022 operating season across all of its properties in the U.S. and Canada. These include a new themed area at Kings Dominion in Virginia, the reopening of two newly refurbished resort properties at Cedar Point in Sandusky, Ohio, and the 50th anniversary celebration at Kings Island in Mason, Ohio. In addition, Cedar Fair plans to introduce several new and upgraded dining venues and to expand its popular festival and event calendars to include something for everyone in the family throughout the year.

“We’re in the business of making people happy, and we are actively investing in our parks to help us deliver the type of fun, immersive experiences that our guests crave and our associates love to provide,” said Cedar Fair President and CEO Richard A. Zimmerman. “Based on positive recent trends and our renewed confidence in the recovery of the business, we now plan to invest between $175-$200 million for the 2022 season to improve the guest experience at our parks. These investments include ongoing renovations at the Castaway Bay and Sawmill Creek resort properties at Cedar Point, as well as the addition of new rides, attractions and guest amenities across our parks in the U.S. and Canada.”

Zimmerman said consumer research continues to reinforce the significance of food and beverage (F&B) and the high-quality menu options Cedar Fair parks offer as essential components of delivering a memorable park experience. As such, the company is investing aggressively for the 2022 season as part of the next phase of significant development in its F&B lineup. Under this plan, Cedar Fair is upgrading and expanding F&B facilities across its portfolio, with new chef-inspired restaurants opening at several parks. The focus is on providing signature menu and beverage items that tap into consumers’ interest for unique flavors and experiences they can’t find anywhere else. In 2021, Cedar Fair has added approximately 20 chefs to its park teams to accommodate the continued growth in its culinary program. In addition, these capital investments will improve the capabilities, technologies and efficiencies of the parks’ food preparation and delivery systems.

Among the highlights of Cedar Fair's capital program for the 2022 operating season:

Kings Dominion is renaming and upgrading the Safari Village area of the park and introducing a new roller coaster in 2022. The new area, Jungle X-Pedition, is set to an exotic archeological dig site and research facility, where explorers can visit the base camp for a bite to eat at a new signature restaurant and shop at an immersive retail location. Around the corner, guests can climb aboard Tumbili, a thrilling roller coaster that suspends riders on either side of the track as the cars flip continuously throughout the ride.

Kings Island will celebrate 50 years of fun, memories and traditions. Guests will join the park in commemorating the landmark anniversary with limited time events, enhanced food offerings and all-new live entertainment – each telling the stories of Kings Island’s first 50 years and sure to delight all ages and create lasting memories. The park will announce more anniversary details in the coming months.

Cedar Point’s full lineup of entertainment returns in 2022 with the popular Frontier Festival at the start of the season, Cedar Point Nights and the Celebrate Spectacular Parade during the heat of the summer and HalloWeekends in the fall. In addition, the park’s Frontier Town will introduce a new chef-inspired signature restaurant that is sure to delight guests throughout the season. On the resort front, the re-imagined Castaway Bay Indoor Waterpark hotel will welcome back families with all-new guest rooms, enhanced amenities, kid-friendly activities and a new take on dining, all intertwined with a whimsical theme that connects sea, land and air. Sawmill Creek by Cedar Point Resorts, located just a short drive from Cedar Point, will be reintroduced as a natural escape ideal for a retreat from the ordinary. The resort will showcase a full renovation of guest rooms, eclectic dining options, golf course upgrades, outdoor amenities and an enhanced convention and meeting space experience. Castaway Bay and Sawmill Creek are scheduled to debut before the 2022 summer season.

Canada’s Wonderland will have four seasons of world-class experiences, events and entertainment for guests of all ages, including a new International Food Festival featuring a diverse menu of culinary tastes, treats and drinks from around the world. In addition, the park will be expanding its culinary offerings in 2022 with the introduction of a multi-level, rustic lodge-restaurant that will be the park’s largest dining facility to date.

Knott’s Berry Farm’s full Seasons of Fun lineup will return in 2022, kicking off with the return of the Peanut’s Celebration, an extended Boysenberry Festival in the spring, the return of Knott’s award-winning summer experience, Ghost Town Alive!, and the festive Knott’s Spooky and Merry Farm closing out the year. The Knott’s Berry Farm Hotel will also undergo a major renovation to its 300+ room onsite resort.

Cedar Fair continues to invest millions of dollars into its two Schlitterbahn Waterpark properties in New Braunfels and Galveston, Texas. The enhancements for the 2022 season will focus on infrastructure and aesthetics throughout the park, including upgraded food locations and attractions. The planned projects will continue to improve the overall guest experience, while maintaining the unique character and iconic Schlitterbahn tradition that guests have treasured for more than 40 years.

In addition, other Cedar Fair parks will offer a full lineup of seasonal events. The wildly popular Grand Carnivale celebration will return to a half-dozen parks next summer, including Carowinds, Dorney Park, Valleyfair and Worlds of Fun. In the fall, parks will offer Halloween-themed special events that are sure to delight adults and kids alike. Six parks will host Tricks & Treats events, with two others hosting Family Halloween. And as the weather turns colder, WinterFest will return to Carowinds, California’s Great America, Kings Dominion, Canada’s Wonderland and Kings Island. This immersive holiday experience is filled with millions of lights, enchanting themes areas, ice-skating, live holiday entertainment, sweet and savory treats, and a variety of additional activities for the entire family.

“Each season we introduce a full slate of new rides and attractions, limited-time special events, and upgraded food and beverage programs,” Zimmerman said. “As we’ve seen across all our parks this summer, consumers are hungry for more, and with season passes now on sale for 2022, we are ready to satisfy their growing appetites for entertainment and family fun.”

For more information about 2022 season passes, please visit www.cedarfair.com and click on your favorite park property.

The Knotts hotel overhaul was long overdue. Happy to see that! I’m sure the parks will be doing individual announcements for rides later this year as well.

Looks like they covered everything there.  Perhaps they'll squeeze in some Monster Trucks here and there, but I think KD may have the only new ride next year.

Agreed. Smart move to have a recovery year and up the infrastructure of each park.

Sea World and Six Flags have previous year coasters to open next year, otherwise I'd imagine they'd be doing much the same.

I rather like the Knott's Hotel. Admittedly, it's been two or three years. But I always liked that it was just a nice most;y-regular hotel right there on property. Maybe I'm just low class.