Golden Ticket Awards 2018

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Re: Golden Ticket Awards 2018

Postby Intamin_coyote » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:39 pm

Lol, I don't see anyone can justify Disneyland or WDW never being awarded Best Shows. The'yre usually not even in the running. That fact alone is pretty damning to the GTA's integrity. I've never been to Dollywood and I'm sure their shows are great, but I don't see how anyone can top Disney. There are people who will literally go to Disney parks just for the shows that's how good they are.

Then there's the issue the major of Japanese steel roller coasters (Steel Dragon, Dodonpa, Fujiyama, Eejanaika) being snubbed every year. They usually don't even receive an ounce of recognitio in the Top 50. I've never ridden any of them, but just by looking at Steel Dragon and Dodonpa they look like they'd be worthy of at least Top 50 honors.

With all that said, even though these Awards are deeply flawed, I still can't help to feel a little proud when my home park coasters do well...

Beast at #5. Mystic Timbers at #11

Diamondback at #10. Banshee at #29.

I gotta say, after being starved half to death of quality roller coasters during the Paramount years (SOB had good ambition, horrendous execution. FOF is good now, but was hardly even enjoyable until the OTSR were replaced with lap bars in 2001), KI has been quietly building a solid collection since.

Throw in that 'mystery B&M' were supposed to be getting for 2020 (giga, hopefully), and we'll have quite the formidable "starting five" if you will.
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Re: Golden Ticket Awards 2018

Postby larrygator » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:11 pm

A.J. wrote:From my own perspective, it would be really freaking challenging, but not impossible. We have the park index but, as Larry deals with on a regular basis, it can be very difficult finding information on attractions that have closed.


No, it certainly isn't easy keeping track.

TPR Awards would be a challenge. From the get go, many of the categories would need to be tweaked. Many categories are just too broad such as Dark Ride. You need different categories such as: Modern Dark Rides (i.e.: Spiderman), Classic Dark rides (i.e.: Disney's Haunted Mansion) and Ghost Trains (i.e.: Knoebels Haunted Mansion). But then you have some current categories such as FunHouses that don't even exist in the US anymore.

I don't even think voting should be open to everyone. Unless you have been to Europe a few times and Japan you really can't compare between the continents.

If I remember correctly it wasn't until Robb sent names of TPRs trip participants to Amusement Today that Europa Park and Valhalla got the boost to put them on or near the top. No European Funhouses, outside of Blackpool's Noah's Ark, were even listed on the ballot that first year I got a ballot.
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Re: Golden Ticket Awards 2018

Postby Nrthwnd » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:30 pm

larrygator wrote:...I don't even think voting should be open to everyone. Unless you have been to Europe a few times and Japan you really can't compare between the continents...


This is what I always think, when these polls become "USA heavy" with some coasters I know,
that aren't really as awesome as several I have ridden on other continents.

So why not have a Golden Ticket Overseas Award(s)? Or be honest and add the "USA" to it.
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Re: Golden Ticket Awards 2018

Postby A.J. » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:07 am

larrygator wrote:I don't even think voting should be open to everyone. Unless you have been to Europe a few times and Japan you really can't compare between the continents.

It's a double-edged sword in my opinion.

If you don't have voting open to everyone, then you run the risk of the awards appearing to be illegitimate because of the smaller, hand-picked, possibly skewed sample size, much like many posters here are complaining about in regard to the Golden Ticket Awards. All of the "TPR haters" would immediately disregard the poll / awards because, "oh, Robb (as an example) was mean to me on Twitter or banned me from the forum and therefore anyone who he thinks is worthy of picking the best coasters / parks / dark rides / etc is rude and hateful too". And, as we all know, the people that are angry / dissatisfied are often the ones that are the most vocal. Some other coaster site would probably be having the same discussion we're having now! Though, perhaps I'm being a bit paranoid.

If you do have voting open to everyone, then you get the largest possible sample size but, as we found with the coaster poll this year, the results tend to be skewed more toward the attractions that have been ridden by the most number of people. We attempted to strike a balance in instituting a "minimum rider" cutoff where a really great but lesser-known coaster (say, Wanda's Soaring With Dragon coaster) would still be placed highly on the poll but not officially ranked because it didn't receive enough riders that year. I think that it worked well enough, but we'll see what happens for the 2018 poll.
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Re: Golden Ticket Awards 2018

Postby coasterbill » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:14 am

Interesting. I was under the impression that it was heavily based on mutual riders anyway.

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Re: Golden Ticket Awards 2018

Postby robbalvey » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:47 am

coasterbill wrote:Interesting. I was under the impression that it was heavily based on mutual riders anyway.

It is. He just means that if you didn't base it on mutual riders, you'd have a more skewed outcome based on "popularity" which is what you want to avoid to have a more accurate poll.

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Re: Golden Ticket Awards 2018

Postby larrygator » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:02 am

A.J. wrote:
larrygator wrote:I don't even think voting should be open to everyone. Unless you have been to Europe a few times and Japan you really can't compare between the continents.

It's a double-edged sword in my opinion.


If you want an expert opinion you ask experts.

If you want a popularity contest you ask everyone.

Sorry, if people get butt hurt for not getting their participation trophy.

I concede using mutual rider comparisons works also, but you are still not getting the critical mass for less ridden attractions, and bias are caused by local favoritism and new hotness factor.
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Re: Golden Ticket Awards 2018

Postby Hermanus » Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:45 pm

larrygator wrote:If you want an expert opinion you ask experts.

If you want a popularity contest you ask everyone.

Sorry, if people get butt hurt for not getting their participation trophy.

I concede using mutual rider comparisons works also, but you are still not getting the critical mass for less ridden attractions, and bias are caused by local favoritism


The next problem you face then is ‘who is an expert?’. Someone who traveled a lot? Someone with a set amount of parks or a certain list of parks? And should he/she also visit all shows and all restaurants? Its a hard thing to set I think.

Also, if in a mutual rider comparison the ride/park/restaurant doesn’t get enough riders, is the group of riders high enough at all to inclusie the ride? In an expert group there’d still be to few riders or to few experts to fairly rank them without giving a small group a huge influence.

For the first time, If you want to have these awards, i’d stick to the mutual riders. During that first time it is also possible to have a expert controll group to check If the results would be too different. I do agree that an expert group is capabele of the best comparision in all categrories. I’m worried however that those results may also be scewed due to a to small nummer of experts or too many experts from the same group.

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Re: Golden Ticket Awards 2018

Postby larrygator » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:05 pm

Hermanus wrote:The next problem you face then is ‘who is an expert?’. Someone who traveled a lot? Someone with a set amount of parks or a certain list of parks? And should he/she also visit all shows and all restaurants? Its a hard thing to set I think.


The people with the most theme park experiences are the experts. It is pretty straight forward in my opinion. I can't judge a coaster/ride and compare it to others unless I have ridden it. I can't compare food at two different restaurants unless I have eaten at both. I can only tell you the cleanest park I have been to I can't compare it to the cleanliness of someplace I haven't been.


The Golden Tickets by category are not based on Mutual Riders, the results are listed by %. It might by different for the coaster listings.
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I'll use the Funhouse/Walkthrough category since it is a complete farce.

Noah's Ark Kennywood 34%
Frankenstein's Castle Indiana Beach 13%
Ghost Ship Morey's Piers 12%
Gasten Ghost Hotel Liseberg 11%
Lustiga Huset Gröna Lund 10%

So we have two Funhouse (Noah's Ark) & (Lustiga Huset) and three haunted Walk Throughs
Noah's Ark use to have stunts but now it is simply a walk through, while Lustiga Huget is a multi-level Fun House, with wacky stairs, tilt rooms, trick floors and multiple other stunts. I would love to hear from just one person that went to Grona Lund and Kennywood that believed Noah's Ark is better to try to understand why.

The three haunted walk-throughs are all entertaining, and although I feel Gasten Ghost Hotel if for superior I could see how people that like less scary/more hokey could vote for Frankenstein Castle. Ghost Ship was top notch when it opened, but if you do them all I think there is only one that truly stand out as one you want to repeat over and over.

But that's what happens when 80% of voters are from the US.

Best Shows - SFFT still gets legacy votes based on it's Fiesta Texas days
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Re: Golden Ticket Awards 2018

Postby bill_s » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:15 am

larrygator wrote:
A.J. wrote:
larrygator wrote:I don't even think voting should be open to everyone. Unless you have been to Europe a few times and Japan you really can't compare between the continents.

It's a double-edged sword in my opinion.


If you want an expert opinion you ask experts.

If you want a popularity contest you ask everyone.

Sorry, if people get butt hurt for not getting their participation trophy.

I concede using mutual rider comparisons works also, but you are still not getting the critical mass for less ridden attractions, and bias are caused by local favoritism and new hotness factor.


But with 500 experts, it still comes out like a popularity contest, or more accurately an agreement contest or just bad math. For example, if a bunch of voters put Phoenix at #5 and good choices for better coasters for 1-4, but their choices for 1-4 are all different, Phoenix wins. If they all put a different Disney park for best food, but Knoebels as #2, Knoebels wins.

They also appear to be picking people with more knowledge of amusement parks and "coaster" parks than Disney, unless they just don't like them. No wonder, they're ACoasterE members, but the awards aren't billed as ACE awards, they're Amusement Today awards, which seems more general. Seems to me there aren't going to be many people that are experts in all of these unless they have a lot bigger voice in the community already than one vote in these awards, e.g. Robb. I would definitely not consider anyone "poor" if they can't afford (or aren't interested in) Disney after going to a dozen other parks a year in more than one country.

robbalvey wrote:
AndrewRnR wrote:Bingo. The fact they accept advertising dollars from those up for awards says it all. The parks know they won before hand because they get a phone call or email or whatever asking to pay money to run an ad with their award. And I think that is why Knoebels always wins a few things - because they know they can call up Dick and he'll buy an ad and will show up to the awards show. Instead of if Epcot won best food (as it probably should), Disney isn't likely going to send a rep and won't buy an ad (fun fact: Disney is the only park that won an award, Tower of Terror, and didn't buy ad space...) and they certainly aren't going to post over social or issue a press release about it.

That is EXACTLY it! While I agree that Knoebels does have the best "amusement park food" if you are singling out just one park, you have to give it to Epcot. There is simply NO QUESTION. Even just with some of their World Showcase restaurants: Le Cellier Steakhouse, Monsieur Paul, Tutto Italia, Via Napoli, Teppan Edo, Spice Road Table, and not even mentioning some of the festivals throughout the year: Food & Wine, Flower & Garden, etc, there is simply no contest and anyone who would say differently I would seriously have to question if they know what food actually is.

This is why there should be two categories. One for "amusement park" food and one for "theme park" food. But they aren't going do that because:

1. Golden Tickets are stupid.
2. Disney isn't going to give the Golden Tikcets any more attention so why do the extra work to give Disney more attention?
3. There are probably quite a lot of people who vote that just aren't sophisticated enough or probably can even afford to go and dine Epcot. (Trust me, I've seen some of the people who they have voting in that poll, it's frightening!) Just being honest, but I highly doubt that most of the voters for the Golden Tickets are going to spring for a meal at Le Cellier or Monsieur Paul but will most certainly buy a cheese on a stick at Knoebels. And besides, Epcot doesn't even have a roller coaster and I cannot tell you how many ACE members I've heard say "I'm not going to that park because it doesn't have a coaster." #dumb

And there is nothing wrong with the cheese on a stick at Knoebels, I love it myself and I would vote for it in a heartbeat in the best amusement park category, but you simply cannot compare it, and it would actually be unfair to compare it to the Epcot offerings because Epcot should win every time.

But for some reason the Golden Tickets won't really acknowledge Disney and I can probably give you one guess as to why....
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I'll take an educated guess and say I can't afford to dine at Epcot either and neither can many others. Does that make us all "frightening"? Even other than me? Sorry not liking your implication here.

I'm sure there's a lot of "best of" lists of best restaurants in cities that don't include elite, high dollar places such as small French restaurants. For one thing, interest is limited, second thing, Duh, they're good. It's just whole different contest. And Disney itself is, in a sense, more like that. They're also more like a manufacturer of a luxury product which doesn't get reviews because they don't provide review samples and don't need reviews because they also have a full waiting list.
And even then, I'm sure voters in this contest wouldn't mind Epcot being put as #1 for best food if the "normal" list started at #2, but if the whole list became more about ranking the various Disney parks against one another it might not leave room for anyone else.

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