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Cedar Fair Corporate Development Discussion Thread (FUN)


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There's no perfect thread for this since this isn't really a "corporate discussion" thing but spamming every park thread would be dumb, so I figured I'd drop in quick and mention that it looks like every Cedar Fair park has been added to Queue Times except for Valleyfair and Dorney because Dorney doesn't have queues.

 

Queue Times - How do we know this site is accurate? I don't see any information on their site about where are they getting their wait times, how often updated? Do you know more how they work Bill?

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It seemed fairly accurate. I used it to help plan my trip to CP this weekend (Can't see wait times in the app unless at the park). From what I had been watching the trends held true and it really helped me plan my time in the park this weekend. The big hitters where accurate so I knew when I needed to be in the park to minimize my wait on those rides.

 

Not sure when they went live on the site but I started watching wed, thurs, & Friday because my trip was Sat - Monday

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  • 3 weeks later...

Cedar Fair held a conference call yesterday to discuss their disappointing Q2 results. I skimmed the transcript which you can read here. Here's what I found noteworthy...

 

- Net revenues were down 3% as a result of a 5% attendance drop. Somewhat offsetting the attendance decline was a 1% increase in average in-park guest per capital spending and a 4% or $2 million increase in out-of-park revenues.

 

- Knott's is on pace to have its best year ever, driven by record season pass sales, attendance and per capita spending.

 

- Kings Island has seen a drop in season pass sales and it's disappointing season offset the gains by Knott's. That said, the park is still on pace for it's second highest season pass program performance ever despite being down from last season. Basically, last season was just ridiculous.

 

- They believe that weather was a primary factor in the attendance drop, though that's an easy excuse and it's highly unlikely that it's as big of a factor as they claim (though I'm sure it was a factor).

 

- They're blaming construction delays on Railblazer for their numbers at Great America. Since the ride opened though, the park has been performing in-line with expectation so that excuse actually does hold water.

 

- Cost cutting measures to combat this drop include adjusting the operating calendar based on demand, investing in technology to more effectively and efficiently manage the scheduling of our 45,000 seasonal employees or by eliminating cost related to ride and attractions that have run their course and are no longer as popular with guests.

 

- Last Saturday at Cedar Point was one of the busiest in years. I only bring this up because I was there and yeah... god damn.

 

- They are going to test a 12 month installment season pass plan like Six Flags has next season

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- Cost cutting measures to combat this drop include adjusting the operating calendar based on demand, investing in technology to more effectively and efficiently manage the scheduling of our 45,000 seasonal employees or by eliminating cost related to ride and attractions that have run their course and are no longer as popular with guests.

 

"Effectively and efficiently manage the scheduling..." never goes well for the guest experience.

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- They are going to test a 12 month installment season pass plan like Six Flags has next season

FINALLY!!!

That concept has kept me with every major park chain, sans disney, because I don't have to go through the hassle of renewing year after year.

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I for one can take partial blame for taking less visits to the parks as well and I will blame those on two pretty easy culprits: The weather and higher gas prices. I want to say the wife and I skipped about 4 visits (so a total of 8) to which would have been to KI and CP either due to gas being closer to $3.00 or maybe it was too rainy or too damn hot. So if many have my mindset, I can see how some attendance drops can be blamed on these. You are welcome to give me a big "F-You"

 

It's a changing time now, too.... many more sports activities going on with the kids.

 

This may or not be a reason, but in Ohio, the local news has not stopped reminding people of the terrible fatal accident at the Ohio State Fair in 2017.

 

But also remember the country is doing MUCH better with the Republican tax cut plan: business are paying more per hour, unemployment is dropping like a stone, and even before those wage increases take home-paychecks are up an average of 2%.... but unfortunately the gas prices have gone up, and people see that first (myself included), but those prices will be coming down soon as the US prepares to take 3rd place and eventually 2nd place in oil production.

Edited by John Peck
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But also remember the county is doing MUCH better with the Republican tax cut plan: business are paying more per hour, unemployment is dropping like a stone, and even before those wage increases take home-paychecks are up an average of 2%....

 

What county?

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- They are going to test a 12 month installment season pass plan like Six Flags has next season

FINALLY!!!

That concept has kept me with every major park chain, sans disney, because I don't have to go through the hassle of renewing year after year.

 

Cedar Fair already had auto renewal if you wanted it. 12mth payments is not the same as membership. On the conf call CF comments and the tone when memberships was somewhat negative.

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If it doesn't auto renew after my contractual obligations then I feel it's a miss for cedar fair. You can't have a season pass anymore if my payments crossover 2 seasons. I guess i'm just use to how every major chain does it.

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If it doesn't auto renew after my contractual obligations then I feel it's a miss for cedar fair. You can't have a season pass anymore if my payments crossover 2 seasons. I guess i'm just use to how every major chain does it.

 

Again, there already is an auto renew option that you can select for CF. You can do auto renew on the old 9 payment plan or the lump sum.

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Then what is the difference between auto-renew and a membership, aside from a price hike from season to season?

 

https://www.cedarpoint.com/auto-renewal

 

Starting on or about September 1st of each year we will renew your Season Pass for the next season and charge the credit card on file.

 

Approximately 30 days prior to the renewal transaction, you’ll receive a confirmation email outlining the products and lowest price* for the following season. If the summary looks good, you simply need to login to the Season Pass Auto-Renewal Portal if you paid using Easy Pay and accept this year’s Payment Agreement (TILA) or if you are set up to Pay in Full then you don’t need to do anything else. If you’ve changed your mind, you can cancel your enrollment in the program via the Season Pass Auto-Renewal Portal with no penalties.

Paid in full accounts will be charged the full amount starting on or about September 1st each year.

Payment plan accounts will be charged 9 easy monthly payments starting on or about September 1st each year. The payment plan option doesn’t require the payment of any interest or additional fees.

No refunds will be accommodated after the initial charge on or about September 1st of each year.

 

A membership...a la Six Flags they keep charging you till you actively cancel. A season pass auto renewal you have to actively renew by agreeing to the terms. Memberships lack of active cancellation is an assumption of continued agreement of the terms.

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But also remember the country is doing MUCH better with the Republican tax cut plan: business are paying more per hour, unemployment is dropping like a stone, and even before those wage increases take home-paychecks are up an average of 2%.... but unfortunately the gas prices have gone up, and people see that first (myself included), but those prices will be coming down soon as the US prepares to take 3rd place and eventually 2nd place in oil production.

 

Not to let this thread get political, but you touched on something that impacts the entire industry: disposable income. Wages might be up 2%, but if the cost of all the goods you need also increase in price at a rate higher or equal to that (FYI: the CPI is up 2.9% in the last 12 months)..that's less actual money you have to spend on stuff like theme parks.

 

Now back to the normal discussion...

 

Knott's payment plan is 6 payments. I'm thrilled I can soon spread that out over 12 months now!

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Cedar Fair's parks predominantly draw from red/"purple" states - Missouri, North Carolina, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia. These are places which will feel the strongest negative effects of trade war as they are involved in the manufacturing of durable goods or agriculture about to be tarriffed and possibly driven out of existence. Cedar Fair is also betting that Congress will be able to push increasing the number of J-1 and H-2B visas, which they openly admit their corporate tax savings are going to building dorm rooms for. They need that to keep the cost of labor down, as they are otherwise competing in the open market for workers and going to be forced to raise pay.

 

Six Flags has a stronger presence in the "blue" states, and is less likely to be affected. The price of oil increasing again to make shale profitable doesn't benefit Cedar Fair in any way. It is much more likely to positively affect Six Flags as their parks in Texas are much closer to that action.

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A membership can be started any time of the year without losing the benefit. For example if I were to get a season's pass right now, it would be good until the end of the year, but so would it be if I bought it in March and already went to the park 20 times. A membership would be good until at least this time next year, which makes sense because you'd also be paying for it still if you choose the installment plan. You can also do a 13 month pass, buy one just before Halloween and keep it in effect until after Halloween the next year, or do that for a park which opens 2 weeks earlier, either way you get a better part of the season twice. There are several advantages for the customer. Advantage for the park is pass sales don't dwindle as the year goes by, disadvantage is those late pass sales aren't closely followed by another pass purchase for those few that buy late and continue next year. This auto-renew plan I see here has starting to pay for NEXT year's pass in September. You get a discount, but as payment plans go it's more like a prepaid credit card. ;(

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Cedar Fair's parks predominantly draw from red/"purple" states - Missouri, North Carolina, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia. These are places which will feel the strongest negative effects of trade war as they are involved in the manufacturing of durable goods or agriculture about to be tarriffed and possibly driven out of existence. Cedar Fair is also betting that Congress will be able to push increasing the number of J-1 and H-2B visas, which they openly admit their corporate tax savings are going to building dorm rooms for. They need that to keep the cost of labor down, as they are otherwise competing in the open market for workers and going to be forced to raise pay.

 

Six Flags has a stronger presence in the "blue" states, and is less likely to be affected. The price of oil increasing again to make shale profitable doesn't benefit Cedar Fair in any way. It is much more likely to positively affect Six Flags as their parks in Texas are much closer to that action.

 

Despite overwhelming demand Congress failed to increase the 66K cap last fall and again in the spring. They gave DHS the ability to give 15K at their discretion. This is all politics of them knowing they are needed but they don't want to vote for it b/c they will get some far right person attacking them on being soft on immigration in a primary. Sadly, many kids in the US don't want to do these jobs.

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Thought this thread might be a better place to post this. First I will say I am very excited for the new coaster at Wonderland and that every year there is new attractions to the park.

 

For some reason they never mention the Platinum pass and now they only show POV of Wonderland coasters on the TVs in the queues. Its almost like they are not a part of Cedar Fair

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This is anecdotal, but does anyone else feel like (at least at Cedar Point, Kings Island and a few others), attendance has been much healthier since the weekend before their conference call about attendance being down? Queue Times actually sort of backs this up if you look at the 7 day charts. Obviously this isolated, often slightly inaccurate data but it's an interesting observation if it holds any merit.

Edited by coasterbill
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Despite overwhelming demand Congress failed to increase the 66K cap last fall and again in the spring. They gave DHS the ability to give 15K at their discretion. This is all politics of them knowing they are needed but they don't want to vote for it b/c they will get some far right person attacking them on being soft on immigration in a primary. Sadly, many kids in the US don't want to do these jobs.

 

I'll say this about "the kids" - for a lot of fields, working every summer and supporting yourself doing a job with your classes is no benefit whatsoever. It's actually a net negative, because it means you weren't doing unpaid internships related to your field. This is especially true in policy and finance fields. Kids are also being pushed harder than ever to commit to getting AP credits, going to universities, taking classes in summer, and obtaining advanced/terminal degrees while partaking in a variety of extramural activities in order to hopefully obtain scholarships. Pay-For-Play soccer exists in America largely because parents see their kid's high school and travel team activities as a cheaper alternative to paying for a state school and books by getting their sons or daughters a free ride (that is often promised). All this means much lower labor force participation. You can't have it both ways, after all: do we want ride operators or do we want the best educated, most driven, highest competing labor force in the world?

 

BTW: Cedar Point was packed this weekend Bill, so maybe there's just been some weird delay in people turning out to the parks.

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