Knoebels Discussion Thread

^ A roller coaster can break down at any point of time, anywhere. It is just the fact that 3 and 4 train operation on this right causes higher than normal stops in the ride.

This fits right in with ADA standards.

For as long as I can remember, they've had a similar sign at Twister (and I think Phoenix) about having to be able to walk up the ramp if they're running more than 1 train. The only thing I can think of for a reason is that if the exit ramp gets obstructed, the station might end up over capacity. (However, I've never seen any capacity signs in either station. Contrast this with Dorney, where on my last visit there was a sign in Hydra's station saying 36 people, which is ridiculous since the train seats 32!)

I very distinctly remember a wheel chair sitting on the side of the station when I got off Flying Turns on Saturday (it was running three trains). I don't know if they made an exception because of how recently the ride opened, or maybe it depends on the operator, but it clearly wasn't being enforced that day.

Regardless, I very highly doubt it's purely for capacity reasons. That sounds illegal and very un-Knoebels.

I'm sure whatever the reason is, Knoebels didn't make the decision lightly.

^There was a similar sign at the Phoenix entrance last summer. I just assumed the park didn't want to run the risk (albeit slight) of the skid brakes failing to completely stop the train before the station, with another train in the station.

I really don't think its an issue. They are trying to maximize the capacity of an already low-capacity ride. It would really slow down the ride loading process.

If that's the case, then I'm sorry my disability would be an inconvenience for you. I'll make sure to stay out of your way. I don't really see it being a safety issue either because there are all kinds of rides that are probably hard to evacuate from, but I can still ride. Even at Holiday World, I see the Mammoth/Wildebeest and Voyage being harder than the Flying Turns purely out of speculation.

I really don't see how it violates any ADA policy as it still allows handicapped people to ride the ride.

Unless they're running all three trains that day, in which case, you can't. Considering how demanding the ADA revisions were that came into effect in 2011 on pretty much everything are, I'd be shocked if this was an acceptable loophole. I've literally never seen another business with a similar sign. I'd love to hear a real lawyer take a look at this and give an opinion (and with that; off to message lawyer friends on facebook)....

I really don't think its an issue. They are trying to maximize the capacity of an already low-capacity ride. It would really slow down the ride loading process.

 

If that's the case, then I'm sorry my disability would be an inconvenience for you. I'll make sure to stay out of your way. I don't really see it being a safety issue either because there are all kinds of rides that are probably hard to evacuate from, but I can still ride. Even at Holiday World, I see the Mammoth/Wildebeest and Voyage being harder than the Flying Turns purely out of speculation.

It isn't that it is an inconvenience, but it makes complete sense why the park is doing this. Think about it like a ride breaking down. The line stops moving and people get frustrated that they have been waiting in line for so long, only to have to wait longer. If the smooth operation of the ride comes to a halt because of one disabled guest, there are going to be some frustrated guests. I am not saying that it is right, but I totally understand why the park is doing it, and honestly, I am not going to question the judgment of Knoebels since they actually got FT up and running when many had given up on it.

Even if the line slows down to allow a guest with a disability aboard, I'm sure most guests will understand. That's the general consensus that I've seen when I'm waiting for a coaster and someone has to wait an extra cycle or two due to a guest with a disability coming in the exit and taking their seat.

I really don't think its an issue. They are trying to maximize the capacity of an already low-capacity ride. It would really slow down the ride loading process.

 

If that's the case, then I'm sorry my disability would be an inconvenience for you. I'll make sure to stay out of your way. I don't really see it being a safety issue either because there are all kinds of rides that are probably hard to evacuate from, but I can still ride. Even at Holiday World, I see the Mammoth/Wildebeest and Voyage being harder than the Flying Turns purely out of speculation.

 

It isn't that it is an inconvenience, but it makes complete sense why the park is doing this. Think about it like a ride breaking down. The line stops moving and people get frustrated that they have been waiting in line for so long, only to have to wait longer. If the smooth operation of the ride comes to a halt because of one disabled guest, there are going to be some frustrated guests. I am not saying that it is right, but I totally understand why the park is doing it, and honestly, I am not going to question the judgment of Knoebels since they actually got FT up and running when many had given up on it.

I can guarentee you Knoebels isn't denying people with disabilities access to the ride because they're worried about other guests having to wait longer. That would be like a city bus not allowing wheel chairs during rush hour because they're worried about clogging traffic. This is 2013, stuff like that doesn't fly. It's not right and Knoebels wouldn't do it.

I very distinctly remember a wheel chair sitting on the side of the station when I got off Flying Turns on Saturday (it was running three trains). I don't know if they made an exception because of how recently the ride opened, or maybe it depends on the operator, but it clearly wasn't being enforced that day.

There's always an empty fold-up wheelchair sitting on a scale plate on the unloading side. I assume that it's so they can get the weight of the passenger for balancing the train, since they're not going to know how much weight to subtract for a wheelchair that someone brings with them.

I visited Knoebels again this weekend for the last weekend of Hallo-Fun nights, it was quite enjoyable. Rode Flying Turns for the third time, and I can say each time I've ridden it's been a unique ride.

I will say, enjoy the haunted antique cars seem to get better and better each year. More details and more scares.

Also Phoenix and Twister were running insane last night as well.

I also tried the caramel apple pork chop on a stick and the pumpkin funnel cake, they were both delicious. Next year, I definitely want to try more foods that they just have around the halloween time.

Overall, it was a great little day trip to Knoebels and a nice way to end my coaster season.

I loved the haunted antique cars as well. Really well done.

I went this weekend also, today was the best day of all, it felt like I had the park all to myself all day. Every ride was a walk on in pretty much any row you wanted. The flyers were running insane all weekend,not sure if its the cold air or what but every ride felt unsafe in the best way. It was great re riding phoenix for the last half hour of the season. Can't wait to go back opening day next year.

Have to say I'm a little shocked at the lack of comments about Flying Turns. For a ride that took 7 years to construct, and it's been open about a month now, other than the opening weekend, we haven't really had anyone talk about it.

I would have thought this would be a ride that people would have flocked to as soon as it was accepting riders.

^Glad I'm not the only one! Don't know if it was the lack of warning or the time of year or what, but I hope next summer this ride will start getting more of the love it deserves.

^Glad I'm not the only one! Don't know if it was the lack of warning or the time of year

Probably a combination of both.

I also don't really see what there is to comment on - I mean, seven years on, we all knew it was going to be a fun ride but nothing extraordinary, and that's what we got. Nobody's disappointed and nobody's blown away, so what's there really to comment on? Knoebels deserves credit for sticking with it for so long, but that dedication doesn't make the ride any more exciting or any more revolutionary - those are the things that get talked about for years.

Honestly - lots of stuff (read: school work) has prevented me from going down there this Autumn, which is legitimately disappointing. So, I can only really comment on what other people have experienced.

^^I'd agree with that. We got exactly what we expected. I really enjoyed the ride but it's not even on the same planet as Phoenix and Twister. It's a fun family coaster, a great addition to the park and kind of a living museum of Flying Turns coasters. I like the ride a lot but it won't blow anyone away or come close to any top 10 lists.

I visited Knoebels again this weekend for the last weekend of Hallo-Fun nights, it was quite enjoyable. Rode Flying Turns for the third time, and I can say each time I've ridden it's been a unique ride.

 

I will say, enjoy the haunted antique cars seem to get better and better each year. More details and more scares.

 

Also Phoenix and Twister were running insane last night as well.

 

I also tried the caramel apple pork chop on a stick and the pumpkin funnel cake, they were both delicious. Next year, I definitely want to try more foods that they just have around the halloween time.

 

Overall, it was a great little day trip to Knoebels and a nice way to end my coaster season.

I agree with this and maybe thats because we went together

I really liked Flying Turns as a great family coaster but it didnt blow me away. It was also my 200th coaster so now on Scandi I'll be at the 200 mark

Phoenix and Pumpkin Funnel cake side by side....how could your day be bad??

I also don't really see what there is to comment on - I mean, seven years on, we all knew it was going to be a fun ride but nothing extraordinary, and that's what we got.

If that is what was expected, then why was everyone piling on Knoebels about it not opening and such?

I got on it three times this weekend, it was a great ride and by far the best bobsled coaster I have been on (Alpine Bobsled, Avalanche and Disaster Transport). The run of un inhibited turns after the second lift gave a great feeling of freedom and it was one of the few times I've been scared on a coaster. Also the feeling of being surrounded by wooden trough is a very different and really has to be ridden to experience it, the videos don't do it justice. Overall it is a great addition to an already amazing park, and it will be a must ride every time I visit.

^^Because regardless of what the expected quality is, people generally expect a project to be delivered on time? That goes for literally anything.

I really don't see how it violates any ADA policy as it still allows handicapped people to ride the ride.

 

Unless they're running all three trains that day, in which case, you can't. Considering how demanding the ADA revisions were that came into effect in 2011 on pretty much everything are, I'd be shocked if this was an acceptable loophole. I've literally never seen another business with a similar sign. I'd love to hear a real lawyer take a look at this and give an opinion (and with that; off to message lawyer friends on facebook)....

I am a real lawery, but as one, I will do what we do - qualify my comments. I will not opine in detail about legislation I am not an expert on, or how the Court will intrpret the legislaiton and facts in a jurisdiction in which I am not they are not experts. Having said that I guess the likely real question will be whether the park in good faith intends to truly have a policy where guests with special needs can ride upon request ? For example, if the park says we cannot accomdate disabilities due to three train operation and we need to operate 3 trains for praticial reasons at most times that would be acceptable if the park had a clear policy for when those guests could ride. Ie. they will run 2 train operation during certain posted times (maybe first hour of the day) or once a week on Sunday mornings. For if you are disabled and go to the ride opps and then give you a time to return with a committement that the ride will be doing two train operations. That way those who have that issue can plan around the timing and get on the ride. I don't think there is an obligation that the ride must at all times be in two train operation to meet the needs of a small portion of the public. But if that language is there with no actual intention to ever running just two trains to allow disabled guests to enjoy the ride than it would I could see an argument that the policy is in there in sign only and is in bad faifth and against the spirit of the ADA.