Movies, Movies, Movies.....

P. 594 - The Lion King Review!
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Re: Movies, Movies, Movies.....

Postby robbalvey » Tue May 15, 2018 7:18 am

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**Unpopular Opinion WARNING**

So I finally saw Infinity War last night and it's easily my least favorite of any of the Marvel Cinematic Universe movies I've seen. In fact, my initial thought when the movie ended was "I feel the same way I did after the first time I watched Star Wars: Episode 1" in that the movie doesn't fit with the rest of the series or universe, and it sort of just made me like the franchise as a whole a little bit less than I did before. :( Hear me out...

- I consider myself a "casual" Marvel fan. I've seen many, but not all the films (All the Iron Man, Avengers, Civil War, Ragnarok, Black Panther, and a couple more...) and I generally "like" all of them and feel at least somewhat invested enough that I was looking forward to seeing Infinity War, but not enough that I needed to see it opening weekend.

- I just thought Infinity War didn't feel like an "Avengers" movie at all. I think back to the original 3 Iron Man films, the first two Avengers, and even films like Civil War, Ragnarok, and Black Panther, and this didn't feel like any of those. It was such a departure that I was totally turned off by the film.

- In fact, to me it felt more like someone went... "Hey, why don't we make a Star Wars movie, but instead lets put all the Marvel characters in it!!!" It honestly felt more like a Star Wars film with it's multiple locations on different planets, alien creatures, space ships, jumping around to different storylines, etc, than it did any of the other really fun, witty, actually decently written MCU films I've seen.

- Wikipedia describes the Marvel Avengers as "The Avengers are a fictional team of superheroes" and at no point did this film feel like there was any real "team" or any organization of characters at all. To me, it just felt like one huge mess. Not even the characters in the film had any idea who each other were, and at one point you had good guys accidentally fighting good guys because when the characters in the movie are so confused about who each other are and when the characters in the film can't keep track of each other, how is your audience supposed to?

- I really did not feel like the Guardians of the Galaxy fit in at all in this film. Wait... come to think of it, was this a Guardians movie that the Avengers were crashing? Or was it the other way around? I'm not sure I could tell... or care.

- This movie had some of the worst CGI I've seen out of any of the Marvel movies. Every time the dwarf, who wasn't supposed to be a dwarf but we all knew he is a dwarf, was on screen, he looked completely out of scale and sort of just oddly pasted into the scene. When everyone started to "fade away" at one point I actually laughed out loud because it looked so shitty. Seriously, Marvel, parts of that movie looked like a poorly animated video game cut scene. What an embarrassment. (And trust me I know, I've produced some poorly animated video game cut scenes in my time!) :P

- I really do not understand all those people losing their shit over everyone dying. How is it not obvious to everyone else that none of those characters actually die. NONE OF THEM. I don't even believe that Loki or Gamora will really end up dead. We learn like 1/3 of the way through the film that Thanos's "gauntlet of dumb" can show whatever reality you want it to, it can turn back time, probably raise the dead, make a kick ass latte, really whatever you want it to do. So it's painfully obvious to me that all that stuff will just get reversed and fixed in Part 2.

- I admit I'm not a "die-hard" invested fan of the MCU, but I feel I know at least enough about all the characters from the movies I've seen to follow along with their story. And that being said, I didn't even realize that was Captain America or Black Widow until about 3/4 of the way through the film! They had a completely new "look" and such small bit parts that it was a shame because you really wanted to see more of those characters, especially Black Widow. I felt like she was just "there" and didn't really do much the entire film compared to the other movies. And where was Hawkeye? Wasn't he an original Avenger? I know there was an explanation for that, but I didn't come to the movie to hear excuses, I came to see the Avengers on screen. Again, more reasons why this did not feel like an "Avengers" movie to me.

- There were just so many odd beat points in the film... How Dr. Strange just sort of gives up his stone, Banner kind of being a complete bumbling fool throughout the entire movie, Thor spending so much time trying to get a new hammer after we were just told in the last movie he didn't need his hammer, oh, and my favorite one how they all talked about how Thanos could just "snap his finger" and half of the world would disappear, but you sort of thought they were talking figuratively on how powerful the gauntlet of dumb was, not literally. But then when he actually snaps his finger, I honestly LAUGHED! Like "OMG! He *actually did* snap his finger!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!"

- And who exactly are the "Avengers" now anyway? We were initially told that the members of that team (Iron Man, Hulk, Captain America, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Thor) were all part of the "Avengers initiative" and you pretty much knew who everyone was, they worked together a team (albeit sort of dysfunctional at times... thanks Tony) and they were easy to keep track of. Clearly there is a separation of who is and who isn't part of the team because Tony says to Peter "Looks like you're an Avenger now" so are we to assume that everyone who wasn't in an Avengers movie before (which seemed like quite a few) are not actually "Avengers" and just crashing this movie? Is Dr. Strange an Avenger or not? He had so much screen time and was a prominent part of this film, but Tony didn't even know who the guy was! (And don't they both live in the same town?) So if it's not an "Avenger" why did he get such a big part in an Avengers movie and Black Widow or Hawkeye did not? Like I said, this movie just felt like a complete mess to me, and that's pretty much the reason why I felt that way.

Overall, I just really couldn't take this movie seriously at all. (Not that I take comic book movies seriously to begin with, but you know what I mean) I couldn't help feeling that the entire film I was watching some other franchise's film that just sort of happened to have Marvel characters as a cross-over. Everything just felt out of place to me. Kind of like that horrible Transformers movie where all of a sudden they were Knights of the Roundtable and you're all "Why are the Transformers in this weird universe???" That's what this movie felt like to me.

In a weird way, Thanos had it right. This movie was so overpopulated with characters stealing screen time away from characters you actually wanted to see more of, that his plan of getting rid of 50% of them is completely sound! Yes, please, kill off 50% of them so the next movie will feel more like an Avengers film and less like a mess of characters that don't belong in this movie!

I really, REALLY hope that Part 2 is a whole lot better and fixes everything I didn't like about Part 1, because I really went into this movie expecting to like it a lot and this is probably the most disappointed I've been with a film since Episode 1. (Seriously!) It's shocking to me to see how well this film has done and how much people seem to be eating it up. I guess put me in the "I don't get it" camp, and I'm generally a fan of all the other Marvel films I've seen.

Thanks for reading!
Last edited by robbalvey on Tue May 15, 2018 9:55 am.

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Re: Movies, Movies, Movies.....

Postby mikeykaise » Tue May 15, 2018 8:14 am

I completely agree with you Robb, I enjoyed it but it seemed like they just threw everything into a big pot and said let's see what we can make with this. It's a very hard story line to keep up with. I haven't seen Guardians of the Galaxy 2 or Black Panther so I kind of felt like I was missing things without that.
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Re: Movies, Movies, Movies.....

Postby p-sychiatrist » Tue May 15, 2018 8:41 am

Hmm... I actually completely agree with a lot of these points. While it wasn't my least favorite marvel film (Ultron, Thor 2, and Iron Man 2 were way worse imo), it was super underwhelming.

You nailed it about the tone being off from the other films in the MCU. I disagree about the Star Wars comparison though. Various planets and alien creatures are actually completely normal for the comics, it's really the MCU's fault for not building those storylines up enough leading into this movie. And Fox's fault for not giving up the Fantastic Four rights which really would have tied the whole Thanos/outer space elements in much better if we got a few movies about them first.

But YES it totally felt like a poor man's Guardians movie that the avengers were crashing, perfect description. Hawkeye being under house arrest while the world is exploding? Seriously? And yeah the CGI in those two particular scenes were awful! And the literal snap was corny as hell.

How was anybody actually sad over those deaths? Like other than Gamora and mayyybe Loki all of those characters are 100% coming back. And that brings me to my main critique of this movie (and the MCU as a whole). There can be no suspense, stakes, or surprises when you already know the film lineup for the next 5 years at all times.

Spider-Man's death (as much as it was well-acted) couldn't make me cry when I already know there's a Spider-Man sequel with Tom Holland confirmed taking place after Avengers 4. Same with Black Panther (who just got kinda screwed over in this movie in general with no screen time). Worst of all, the reveal in the post credits that Nick Fury was contacting Captain Marvel would have been such an exciting moment for comic book fans... if we didn't already know all about her upcoming movie already!! Like I knew before even going into the film that Thanos was gonna kill everyone and Captain Marvel would come and undo it because the way they schedule and announce their films makes the overarching plot obvious. I just wish they would keep their mouths shut or only tell major investors about their upcoming projects to keep the fans surprised!
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Re: Movies, Movies, Movies.....

Postby robbalvey » Tue May 15, 2018 9:21 am

p-sychiatrist wrote:How was anybody actually sad over those deaths? Like other than Gamora and mayyybe Loki all of those characters are 100% coming back. And that brings me to my main critique of this movie (and the MCU as a whole). There can be no suspense, stakes, or surprises when you already know the film lineup for the next 5 years at all times.

Spider-Man's death (as much as it was well-acted) couldn't make me cry when I already know there's a Spider-Man sequel with Tom Holland confirmed taking place after Avengers 4. Same with Black Panther (who just got kinda screwed over in this movie in general with no screen time). Worst of all, the reveal in the post credits that Nick Fury was contacting Captain Marvel would have been such an exciting moment for comic book fans... if we didn't already know all about her upcoming movie already!! Like I knew before even going into the film that Thanos was gonna kill everyone and Captain Marvel would come and undo it because the way they schedule and announce their films makes the overarching plot obvious. I just wish they would keep their mouths shut or only tell major investors about their upcoming projects to keep the fans surprised!

THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS!!!!!

And I'm not even a "comic book fan" in the least bit. I really do not understand those people who cried or got seriously upset by all the characters dying because THEY AREN'T ACTUALLY DEAD!!!

I fully expect someone, whether it's Captain Marvel or whoever in the next film to basically just reverse EVERYTHING that happened in this one, because we have learned that that is possible.

And even if those two characters do wind up actually being dead WHO CARES? There are just so many characters now in that universe that it's hard to be attached to any one of them and if one character dies they'll just introduce another character. I mean, look at Black Panther... nobody knew of him prior to a few months ago and now he's everyone's favorite character! If Gamora ends up dead, they'll just make another green girl character that everyone will fall in love with and immediately forget about the last one. What about Elphaba? She has powers, right? :P

When I say I'm "casually invested" in those characters, I mean to the point that I like watching them on screen, but the entire revolving door of the characters in those films forces me to not get to hung up on any one of them because they could die, get re-booted or resurrected, only to die again and come back later.
Last edited by robbalvey on Tue May 15, 2018 9:25 am.

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Re: Movies, Movies, Movies.....

Postby p-sychiatrist » Tue May 15, 2018 10:29 am

robbalvey wrote:And I'm not even a "comic book fan" in the least bit. I really do not understand those people who cried or got seriously upset by all the characters dying because THEY AREN'T ACTUALLY DEAD!!!


Exactly!! I'm a diehard Spidey fan and I love Tom Holland but I couldn't cry knowing he was just introduced and worth potentially billions to the franchise. No character worth $$$ and under contract is actually dying haha

robbalvey wrote:And even if those two characters do wind up actually being dead WHO CARES? There are just so many characters now in that universe that it's hard to be attached to any one of them and if one character dies they'll just introduce another character. I mean, look at Black Panther... nobody knew of him prior to a few months ago and now he's everyone's favorite character! If Gamora ends up dead, they'll just make another green girl character that everyone will fall in love with and immediately forget about the last one. What about Elphaba? She has powers, right?


Lmao Elphaba :lmao: and yeah I love Black Panther but after all the money it made there's no way any of those characters are in real danger.

And you're right, there are too many characters and almost all of them are easily replaceable in the public eye (apart from Robert Downey Jr. and Black Panther/Shuri in terms of representation/hype). And there are plenty of other lovable green girls in Marvel to choose from (She-Hulk anybody??) Killing off Gamora was such a safe choice. Killing Tony Stark, Cap, or Spider-Man in a lasting way would have really been powerful. I'm still holding out hope for Avengers 4. It at least shouldn't suffer from overcrowding/side-quests like this one, thanks for snapping every minor character away Grimace!! #thanosdidnothingwrong
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Re: Movies, Movies, Movies.....

Postby Canobie Coaster » Tue May 15, 2018 10:36 am

^ I did really like Infinity War, but complete understand where you're coming from.

I think part of Marvel's problem is that they basically print cash with any film they make. So on their end, why not keep creating new franchises within their universe. But then the expectation is that the fans will see them all in an Avengers movie, which then becomes extremely overpopulated. That's why I think it'll be hard to top the original Avengers since it only had a limited amount of core heroes.

The lack of a cohesive team bit was odd since that was the major turning point of the first Avengers film. I felt like they were basically playing Pokemon against Thanos, attacking one at a time and substituting in after the prior character got knocked out.

I kind of expected no one character to get enough screentime due to the nature of the film, so that didn't shock me. I viewed it like an all-star game in sports. It's a different feel than a normal game, but that doesn't bother me since I like the players.
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Re: Movies, Movies, Movies.....

Postby robbalvey » Tue May 15, 2018 10:56 am

Canobie Coaster wrote: But then the expectation is that the fans will see them all in an Avengers movie. I kind of expected no one character to get enough screentime due to the nature of the film, so that didn't shock me. I viewed it like an all-star game in sports. It's a different feel than a normal game, but that doesn't bother me since I like the players.

While I sort of agree with this, if that's the case then I actually think they should have just dropped the "Avengers" name from the film and just called it "Infinity War." My expectation going in was that I would see the Avengers characters that I'm more familiar with from the first two films and from the other Avengers stand-alone movies get the most screen time and everyone else would be cameos. But when characters who are not Avengers at all, like Dr. Strange, the Guardians or even the whole of the Wakanda universe getting just as much if not more screen time than the original Avengers, that's not the movie I expected to see.

Seriously just call this film, or pair of films "Infinity War" and letting the Avengers have their own movie that focused on those main characters of that team, IMO would have been a much better service to the franchise, and they could have even gotten more movies out of the deal, too!
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Re: Movies, Movies, Movies.....

Postby Dude_in_PA » Tue May 15, 2018 11:21 am

It's "art", so everyone sees it differently.

One point though you guys aren't thinking of(or mentioning at least)....is that this is the ONLY film in the "series" so far where the "good guys" LOSE and in a BIG way. I think that's what got everyone so caught up in it. I never read the comics...ever....so for me, the films are firsts. That way, I can enjoy it on it's own merits without the influence of "well this is how it's supposed to go according to the comics" type of arguments. Ignorance is bliss????

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Re: Movies, Movies, Movies.....

Postby robbalvey » Tue May 15, 2018 11:34 am

Dude_in_PA wrote:One point though you guys aren't thinking of(or mentioning at least)....is that this is the ONLY film in the "series" so far where the "good guys" LOSE and in a BIG way.

First of all I would totally disagree with that.

At the end of Ragnorok they pretty much lost in a very big way as their whole planet was destroyed. And secondly, I actually don't think the good guys lost at all because they've already made it clear that the battle isn't over.

Honestly, I just thought the movie was kind of dumb. It had nothing to do with who won or lost or how thing were supposed to be, I just thought it wasn't a very good movie, and that's based on it's own merits.

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Re: Movies, Movies, Movies.....

Postby lord denning » Tue May 15, 2018 12:44 pm

The problem is trying to judge this movie as just a normal movie - especially if you go in without being super engaged in the MCU to date.

I agree if you are judging it as a single movie on its own it doesn't completely work. It is imperfect by-product of servicing that many characters.

But this is not designed to be viewed as a single film. The fact that the movie was even made or has made the box office it has is incredible.

It's an audacious attempt to replicate the 'annual' comic book where characters crossover and interact. Expect instead of drawing a few more characters you are inserting millions of dollars in movie star salaries!

Those comics were also imperfect with different writers and artists trying to shoehorn their characters together but as a reader they were super fun and something to look forward to seeing every few years. In those comics the good guys always fought each other so you could debate 'who would win in a fight'. You recall they fought each other as well in the first two Avengers, Civil War and even in Thor: Ragnarock.

I view this movie as the season finale of the first ten years of MCU films. Plot lines from the past converge, some great action, and a epic cliffhanger. Again super fun but if you missed the start of the season it would be a hot mess. Maybe the cold open should have been 'previously on...' style montage of prior films.

I went in hoping the movie would end with the iconic 'snap' - the fact they went through with it was a fan boy's dream.

Yes, Thano's snap will be undone. It is a family-friendly comic book movie. Everyone with common sense knows it has to be undone to allow for the sequels. The ending was literally perfect - meaning it was an accurate depiction of what was written on the page in the comics. Thano's snap occurred at the end of the first issue of the series and the rest of the story was the remaining hero's efforts to reverse it. It is not a surprise they will reverse it in the next movie - the question is how. And how will those who 'vanished' be changed by the process.

So even though we know it will be reversed it was still gutsy and fun for the audience to see them go that far. A great cliffhanger - especially for a kid's movie. With notably the most powerful players now off the main stage.

To Robb's point about there not being a 'team' that was a big part of the design - rightly or wrongly of the story to date. The same writers and directors first had the Avengers break up in Civil War and conveniently they choose to have only the original team survive. It will be another fanboy moment when they finally give us the money shot of them reuniting.

I also agree that the Thor hammer thing was Marvel having their cake and eating it too but it was still fun. I loved the funny joke you are not the 'god of hammers' but I still think the new Axe Hammer is cool and perfect for selling toys (it is also from the comics).

So all in all - a perfect movie no. Kind of dumb - yes. But I still had a great time, it was exactly the fan boy cross-ever "event" they promised it to be. excited for Avengers 4 - take my can take my money now.
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