Why hasn't B&M gone for more than 7 inversions since 1995?

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Why hasn't B&M gone for more than 7 inversions since 1995?

Postby FJM8 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:52 pm

This is a doubt i've had in my mind for quite some time, for there are so many possible answers that would be really interesting if true... Dragon Khan first opened 1995 and B&M hasn't ever made more than 7 inversions ever since. Did the project not end up being what B&M expected it to be, even if it was the coaster with the most inversions at the time and quite an important reason for the park's success, or is it some kind of sense of "specialness" they may still be trying to give DK for whatever reason?

Also: Years ago, I read on the internet that PortAventura's initial project included something like one more coaster or such, and that Dragon Khan was actually supposed to be a Vekoma Multi-Looper with interlocking loops. Apparently, they went for the more expensive B&M at the end, but with the zero-g-roll interlocked with a second loop (making for a reason for the additional loop to exist), as a tribute to what Dragon Khan was initially meant to be. I don't know if this last bit is true, but oh would that be beautiful.
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Re: Why hasn't B&M gone for more than 7 inversions since 199

Postby southpuddle » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:02 pm

B&M would build a ride with more than 7 inversions if a park wanted it. So the better question is why don’t any parks want a B&M with more than 7 inversions.

I mean, there are only a handful of coasters in the world with 8+ inversions, and Intamin and Gerstlauer are the only companies making them (I think - I’m sure someone will chime in if there’s another) B&Ms are a lot more expensive than ether of those companies, so I’m sure that’s the main reason.

Edit - looks like S&S is trying their hand at 9 inversions wth Steel Curtain, but my point still stands - B&M is by far the priciest way to go about getting a big looper.

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Re: Why hasn't B&M gone for more than 7 inversions since 199

Postby FJM8 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:29 pm

southpuddle wrote:B&M would build a ride with more than 7 inversions if a park wanted it. So the better question is why don’t any parks want a B&M with more than 7 inversions.


You're probably right, in fact I don't think they may be putting such limits over what clients want from them as may be extrapolated from the OP, your question still could make for a thread. I understand that 7 inversions is a good standard for the number of elements it implies but still, it's been 24 years and no park has ever asked for one? :?r

EDIT: Woops, saw your edit right now, I just can't disagree with how price is something to take into account, they're paying for some top-notch quality after all, I'm not sure if it would make *much* of a difference but it's for certain that 7 inversions are well enough, so why bother I guess.
This whole conversation would beef up the theory of Dragon Khan having 8 inversions as a remanent of a previous project that was discarded for B&M to come in, and that makes me kind of happy seeing the amazing skyline that it end up bringing when Shambhala was built, haha.
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Re: Why hasn't B&M gone for more than 7 inversions since 199

Postby A.J. » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:51 pm

Traditional multi-loopers aren't popular anymore. Most of this decade's big, scary looping coasters have some sort of gimmick to them, whether it's a launch, a beyond-vertical drop, or a unique seating arrangement. Back in the 80s / 90s, the inversions were marketable AS the gimmick. Today, not so much, and that's a shame, because I would love to see B&M do another Kumba or another Dragon Khan.
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Re: Why hasn't B&M gone for more than 7 inversions since 199

Postby grsupercity » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:06 am

B&M also receives a lot flack over its inversion heavy designs. Most of there multi loopers consist of the same 5 elements usually just in a slightly different order. Now imagine adding 2 more inversions to an already inversion heavy floorless coaster which the only thing it does is invert. Something like Steel Curtain yes has 9 inversions but the layout does not seem inversion happy to me. It has a lot of other elements thrown in.
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Re: Why hasn't B&M gone for more than 7 inversions since 199

Postby Too Fast For Comfort » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:30 am

FJM8 wrote:This is a doubt i've had in my mind for quite some time, for there are so many possible answers that would be really interesting if true... Dragon Khan first opened 1995 and B&M hasn't ever made more than 7 inversions ever since. Did the project not end up being what B&M expected it to be, even if it was the coaster with the most inversions at the time and quite an important reason for the park's success, or is it some kind of sense of "specialness" they may still be trying to give DK for whatever reason?

Also: Years ago, I read on the internet that PortAventura's initial project included something like one more coaster or such, and that Dragon Khan was actually supposed to be a Vekoma Multi-Looper with interlocking loops. Apparently, they went for the more expensive B&M at the end, but with the zero-g-roll interlocked with a second loop (making for a reason for the additional loop to exist), as a tribute to what Dragon Khan was initially meant to be. I don't know if this last bit is true, but oh would that be beautiful.


To me, I think that even seven inversions is pushing it. With their old school floorless, inverts, and Kumba, pretty much the entire ride is inversion after inversion with the other pieces just being a drop, MCBR, and transitional pieces to get you from one inversion to inversion. Not much else really goes on. If you like inversions, great, but otherwise it makes for a relatively dull ride once you've been on a bunch of coasters with seven inversion. Granted, their new coasters tend to have six outside of the dive machines or hypers, but I could see have seven is overkill.

Me personally, I think that coasters are best served when they cap out of three. That's the golden number I think. Four is fine too. That's one of the reasons I love RMC so much. They get me. Its about substance, airtime, and fun, and not just pointless inversion after inversion. But you still get the awesome inversions too.

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Re: Why hasn't B&M gone for more than 7 inversions since 199

Postby A.J. » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:03 am

Too Fast For Comfort wrote:Not much else really goes on. If you like inversions, great, but otherwise it makes for a relatively dull ride once you've been on a bunch of coasters with seven inversion.

Kumba, Alpengeist, Montu, et al are pretty much the opposite of dull. They kind of meander around a bit after their last inversions but that doesn't make them any less exhilarating.
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Re: Why hasn't B&M gone for more than 7 inversions since 199

Postby Too Fast For Comfort » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:33 am

A.J. wrote:
Too Fast For Comfort wrote:Not much else really goes on. If you like inversions, great, but otherwise it makes for a relatively dull ride once you've been on a bunch of coasters with seven inversion.

Kumba, Alpengeist, Montu, et al are pretty much the opposite of dull. They kind of meander around a bit after their last inversions but that doesn't make them any less exhilarating.


Not saying that I hate the rides. I could just take more of the "meandering" and less of the pointless inversions. Kumba for example:

Vertical loop is awesome, especially because its the closest thing that you get to hangtime in the park
Dive loop is fine
0-G roll is fun... not as good as the newer generations one (prefer it to me more flat to get the 0 G feeling or more of a stall to get hangtime), but fine for its era
Cobra roll is pointless
Interlocking corkscrews are pointless

BGT is my home park now, and I've been on Kumba 15 times in the past year so I think I have a pretty strong handle on the layout. I'll be at BGT again tomorrow, and I'll come back to this thread with more of my thoughts.

I actually do like Montu and Alpengeist a lot though, but again, I'd probably be happier with just keeping the best 3-4 inversions and keeping the rest of the track length as fun, fast "meandering."

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Re: Why hasn't B&M gone for more than 7 inversions since 199

Postby prozach626 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:38 am

southpuddle wrote:B&M would build a ride with more than 7 inversions if a park wanted it.


This. Parks want what they think will draw crowds. At this time, parks believe that inversion heavy rides will not draw crowds.

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Re: Why hasn't B&M gone for more than 7 inversions since 199

Postby coasterbill » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:39 am

Too Fast For Comfort wrote:0-G roll is fun... not as good as the newer generations one (prefer it to me more flat to get the 0 G feeling or more of a stall to get hangtime), but fine for its era


:lol: Speak for yourself. You can keep those floaty barrel rolls or whatever. I'll take Kumba's zero G roll that tries to kill everyone on the train over any inversion I've ever experienced on any coaster ever. It's ridiculous.

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