Kolmården Discussion Thread

P. 148 - Official Wildfire POV Posted!
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Re: Wildfire - 2016 Kolmarden Rocky Mountain Woodie Announce

Postby A.J. » Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:44 am

Password121 wrote:^Just tossed it in google translate and from what I could gather, the court (or someone?) decided they didn't have a detailed environmental plan, and they're now saying the ride impacts wildlife too greatly to continue to exist. If they can prepare that detailed plan and have it approved, they may be okay, but they're saying it may not be likely to be approved and the ride's future is currently "uncertain."

coasterkid124 wrote:I feel as though the governement will not make Kolmarden tear the ride down unless there is substantial proof that the coaster is harming the environment. As long as Kolmarden can get the accreditation that they need, the ride will be fine. It's a scary situation, but I can not think of a time where a roller coaster was demolished for environmental issues.

Unfortunately, unless you build on a designated or former brownfield site, any theme park development is going to have at least some form of negative environmental impact, be it short-term or long-term. The only thing even close to a "environmentally-friendly" theme park that I can think of is a little amusement park in Wales, GreenWood Forest Park, which has very few actual rides. Maybe the BillyBird "parks" in the Netherlands too. Theme parks are, by their very nature, power-hungry developments made from steel and concrete, though Kolmarden Wildlife Park used to be a zoo exclusively.

_koppen wrote:There is no way of telling what will happen now, but they are not going to make them tear the ride down (as standard procedure they will however be asked to tear it down, not doing so will likely result in some fines to pay for the park).

I do feel like Kolmarden is at a disadvantage here considering the circumstances, but I don't think Wildfire will be torn down either. I'm all for environmentally friendly theme parks (man), but if people are suddenly so concerned about the environmental impact, I feel like they would realize that the "damage" has already been done, and that going through the process of demolishing Wildfire would make an even more negative short-term impact.

I feel like the worst case scenario for people like us (and the park itself by consequence) is that Wildfire is forced into closed / SBNO status while the process is going on.

One thing though - is this strictly a legal thing, or are there ulterior motives at work here? If this were in the U.S., I feel like whomever would have originally opposed the coaster's construction would have thrown a large sum of money at someone to try and have the case opened back up again.
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Re: Wildfire - 2016 Kolmarden Rocky Mountain Woodie Announce

Postby rollin_n_coastin » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:36 am

I doubt this is anything to be concerned about. The owners are probably a few steps ahead and I bet planned for this as a worse case scenario. Like every other challenge of many that they faced to date, this is just another obstacle. They would bever have built the ride if they had any thought that it would be shut down at any point of this process.
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Re: Wildfire - 2016 Kolmarden Rocky Mountain Woodie Announce

Postby historyfreak92 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:28 pm

Hey anybody remember the belmont park petition in san diego when they were going to demolish giant dipper? Do that! I hope that can be an great idea But who evers idea is this! please do not demolish this great rmc coaster! please at leasr bring it to texas!

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Re: Wildfire - 2016 Kolmarden Rocky Mountain Woodie Announce

Postby Myself » Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:32 pm

Didn't Grona Lund have a similar issue come up when they built Eclipse? They were able to resolve that easily enough, and given it's the same parent company, I wouldn't sweat this too much.

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Re: Wildfire - 2016 Kolmarden Rocky Mountain Woodie Announce

Postby PVA62 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:42 pm

This is from Kolmarden's website.

Press release here

Background
In April 2014 Kolmarden announced plans to build a roller coaster of wood with the estimated premiere season in 2016. In October 2014 granted the construction and environmental protection committee planning application for the course, Wildfire. Interested parties, which consists mainly of local residents, appealed the decision. In December 2014 stopped the county government building to investigate if zoning was needed, and Kolmarden interrupted thereby preparatory earthworks for the runway. In February 2015 lifted the provincial government building permit and demanded that a detailed plan would be drawn up before the decision on the building permit could be taken. In March 2015 the County Administrative Board appealed the decision to the Land and Environment Court gave Kolmarden right thing. Then chose the party concerned to appeal against the above decision to the Land and Environmental Court. Wildfire was inaugurated 28 June 2016. Today, the Land and Environmental Court announced that zoning is required. Thus terminated the building permit.


common questions and answers
What happens now?
We will put ourselves in order to then together with the municipality to see what options we face.

Wildfire will be open during Halloween?
No. Wildfire will remain closed until further notice.

When will Wildfire to get open again?
We can not currently provide information.
We will do our utmost to be able to open again Wildfire.

Must Wildfire demolished?
We will do everything we can for it not to happen.

Why did you not produced a detailed plan from the start?
We have followed the directives that we received from the relevant authorities and then told us to apply for planning permission, which we did and which was granted. In the judgment in Land and Environmental Court now pulled the building permit back afterwards.


- We had hoped for a different outcome, but we are well prepared for the different scenarios. Before we know how we should proceed, we will now put us into the reasons for the decision. Then we hit the municipality to evaluate our options, says Christer Fogelmarck, acting CEO of Kolmarden.
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Re: Wildfire - 2016 Kolmarden Rocky Mountain Woodie Announce

Postby ElvisLuv » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:52 pm

NIMBYs :(

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Re: Wildfire - 2016 Kolmarden Rocky Mountain Woodie Announce

Postby _koppen » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:58 pm

coasterkid124 wrote:Kolmarden wouldn't have spent so much money on this coaster if they thought there was ever a chance of it getting demolished. Governments are very picky about having all documents and paperwork completed correctly no matter the person or company involved. I've seen zoning boards and local governments get picky over where a person builds a deck on the back of their house.

I feel as though the governement will not make Kolmarden tear the ride down unless there is substantial proof that the coaster is harming the environment. As long as Kolmarden can get the accreditation that they need, the ride will be fine. It's a scary situation, but I can not think of a time where a roller coaster was demolished for environmental issues. Usually this stuff is all ironed out before, or it would not be approved in the first place.


The ride is not going anywhere, at least that's not my prediction. Kolmården have now (as of yesterday) applied to the local town for a zoning plan.

The really good thing with this ride is that nothing has changed, Kolmården still enjoys the full support from the town. They bring in some big cash for the local economy. Since they are so important for the town the zoning plan will get the highest priority and the plan should be ready in time for the upcoming summer.

The problem is that the zoning plan is likely to be appealed the same way that the build permit was. First the town decides, if that gets appealed then it goes to the County Board and then it goes to the Land and Environment Court. There is also a fourth level, the Land and Environment High Court. It's hard to say if the last one will try it again, they usually don't treat that many cases. But given the high profile of the case...

It is unlikely that a zoning plan is voted into affection before 2018. The million dollar question is if they can operate it next season or not. The parks lawyer and the town are now going through the verdict and the law to try and find a way for it to happen. It will likely take a few months to study it through and they said that they are hoping to release more about it around christmas.

A.J. wrote:but if people are suddenly so concerned about the environmental impact, I feel like they would realize that the "damage" has already been done, and that going through the process of demolishing Wildfire would make an even more negative short-term impact.


The environmentalists are pissed because they feel that there was to little studying about the environmental impacts of the ride before the build permit was given, something the final ruling now shows supports for. They conclude that the studies before building permit was granted was not satisfactory.

They do however note in the ruling that the environmental damage is already done, so I don't think the environmental impact have been given to big consideration in the final ruling. I haven't had the energy to read through all of it, but the main focuses seems to be noise levels, traffic situation and the impact on the animals.

Almost all of the people who have appealed are neighbors who simply don't want the ride to be there.

The impact on the animals are probably not to big. The parks own experts have given interviews stating that the animals closest by the ride only cared about it the first few days and then didn't really care that much. It is also a thing that they easily can study and dig deeper into during the zoning process.

The traffic situation is harder to resolve. The town and the park is always working on improvements to the infrastructure to and around the park, but the road is crappy and it's quite a drive from the highway (10 miles). It's not gonna be improved overall anytime soon. The good thing for Wildfire however is that it's not as big a draw for the attendance as the family attractions is. For an example the new family area themed to Bame that was added last year, that nobody have been complaining about, drew bigger crowds last year than Wildfire did this year.

The noise levels are unlikely to go away, the neighbors simply don't want the ride there (well not all of the neighbors care, but around 30 households do). They can cover the drop and add noise screens though so it is fixable.

A.J. wrote:One thing though - is this strictly a legal thing, or are there ulterior motives at work here? If this were in the U.S., I feel like whomever would have originally opposed the coaster's construction would have thrown a large sum of money at someone to try and have the case opened back up again.


The legal system is very different from the US here. There is not as much money in it and it's not as big a part of the society as well. Sure a good lawyer is always charing more etc, but in general people and groups cannot affect things as much as they can in the US.

The protection for individuals is very strong though, in this case the neighbors.

Myself wrote:Didn't Grona Lund have a similar issue come up when they built Eclipse? They were able to resolve that easily enough, and given it's the same parent company, I wouldn't sweat this too much.


That was a bit different. Gröna Lund have a zoning plan in place, so they don't have to apply for build permits for their rides. The problem with Eclipse was that it is so big that the town considered it to be an actual tower and not an amusement ride.
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Re: Wildfire - 2016 Kolmarden Rocky Mountain Woodie Announce

Postby A.J. » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:00 am

_koppen wrote:The environmentalists are pissed because they feel that there was to little studying about the environmental impacts of the ride before the build permit was given, something the final ruling now shows supports for. They conclude that the studies before building permit was granted was not satisfactory.

They do however note in the ruling that the environmental damage is already done, so I don't think the environmental impact have been given to big consideration in the final ruling. I haven't had the energy to read through all of it, but the main focuses seems to be noise levels, traffic situation and the impact on the animals.

Almost all of the people who have appealed are neighbors who simply don't want the ride to be there.

I mean, I don't necessarily blame the neighbors, if I weren't already a roller coaster person I too would likely be upset that I now have a noisy roller coaster outside my front door. But, at the same time, the park is only open until 8:00 PM at the latest during the summer of 2017, so it's not like Wildfire would be running while I'm trying to sleep. Perhaps Wildfire will turn into Balder in that regard.

I've always seen the two-lane road when looking at satellite imagery of the park, but I didn't realize that the road was seriously having a Knoebels problem (being backed up for miles due to parking lot traffic). I could see why that would drive some people nuts.

Thanks for your insights!
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Re: Wildfire - 2016 Kolmarden Rocky Mountain Woodie Announce

Postby TyRush » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:13 am

Very unfortunate it is to remain closed until further notice. It is just very mind boggling that the building permit can be terminated that easily. Is that how it is in the US too?
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Re: Wildfire - 2016 Kolmarden Rocky Mountain Woodie Announce

Postby DirkFunk » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:43 am

TyRush wrote:Very unfortunate it is to remain closed until further notice. It is just very mind boggling that the building permit can be terminated that easily. Is that how it is in the US too?


Zoning and building permits aren't under federal purview. Neither are ride certifications. Now, you could be granted a permit to build a ride and them promptly be refused certification to operate it. That has actually happened a couple of times. There's also the option of trying to build a ride which you were not granted a permit for. Six Flags tried that years ago at New England.

As far as the discussion of environmental concerns: allowing anyone to overstep boundaries set for them and then simply saying, "Well, they did it, gotta allow it!" sets the worst precedent ever and is not likely. Changes would be seen instead. Second, the greater concern is likely not for the zoo animals and their welfare, but the endemic fauna.

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