Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT Discussion Thread)

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby A.J. » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:58 am

Too Fast For Comfort wrote: What about SV, is that A OK or nah?

Don't give us any ideas. ;)
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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby Too Fast For Comfort » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:02 am

Coasterguy21 wrote:
Too Fast For Comfort wrote:I mean, I'm not trying to take any stances or make any social commentary, I just want to save verbiage and write less -- which is why I like abbreviations within reason. And I never said I didn't like Steel Vengeance. Its my #1 steel.

Well, if you do that, it will continue to come up as it did in your original post (and my quote box).

The things you store your things in when you ride...yeah, those get filtered too. Just a heads up. And if you ever want to talk about that launch coaster with the big loop at Six Flags Magic Mountain, yep...filtered as well. Its all in good fun. Bill has a lot of them in his post above :lmao:

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I really do hope that RMC Gwazi does keep a dueling aspect as two separate tracks. It would make it fun and unique.

And :lmao: :lmao: boldikus!


I guess I'll have to discover the landmines over time. I guess it might pay to re-ride when comes out as. One thing I'm wondering about with RMC Gwazi is the quality of the remaining wood. If some of it has gone into disrepair due to the perils of being in Florida, RMC may only be able to use some of it, and not make use of the entire structure.

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby Coasterguy21 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:07 am

Too Fast For Comfort wrote:I guess I'll have to discover the landmines over time. I guess it might pay to re-ride when comes out as. One thing I'm wondering about with RMC Gwazi is the quality of the remaining wood. If some of it has gone into disrepair due to the perils of being in Florida, RMC may only be able to use some of it, and not make use of the entire structure.


Some parts of it (from the structure to some of the queue structure) has already been recycled and re-used at other parks in the chain. They may be able to reuse parts of the layout and footers but they'll have to replace more of the structure on this one I feel.
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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby Too Fast For Comfort » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:37 am

Coasterguy21 wrote:
Too Fast For Comfort wrote:I guess I'll have to discover the landmines over time. I guess it might pay to re-ride when comes out as. One thing I'm wondering about with RMC Gwazi is the quality of the remaining wood. If some of it has gone into disrepair due to the perils of being in Florida, RMC may only be able to use some of it, and not make use of the entire structure.


Some parts of it (from the structure to some of the queue structure) has already been recycled and re-used at other parks in the chain. They may be able to reuse parts of the layout and footers but they'll have to replace more of the structure on this one I feel.


Exactly, I wouldn't be surprised if the wood that is kept is mostly just kept for decoration and the headchopper affects as opposed to being true supports. I believe that almost all of Twisted Sisters was scrapped except for the station and the footers when Storm Chaser was built.

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby bgtlover » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:29 pm

Too Fast For Comfort wrote:
Coasterguy21 wrote:
Too Fast For Comfort wrote:I guess I'll have to discover the landmines over time. I guess it might pay to re-ride when comes out as. One thing I'm wondering about with RMC Gwazi is the quality of the remaining wood. If some of it has gone into disrepair due to the perils of being in Florida, RMC may only be able to use some of it, and not make use of the entire structure.


Some parts of it (from the structure to some of the queue structure) has already been recycled and re-used at other parks in the chain. They may be able to reuse parts of the layout and footers but they'll have to replace more of the structure on this one I feel.


Exactly, I wouldn't be surprised if the wood that is kept is mostly just kept for decoration and the headchopper affects as opposed to being true supports. I believe that almost all of Twisted Sisters was scrapped except for the station and the footers when Storm Chaser was built.

Twisted Twins was built with steel supports (it was a hybrid...now it's all steel).
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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby AndrewA86 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:30 pm

Too Fast For Comfort wrote:Do you think that people care about records? That's just a marketing thing. All of I am too stupid to spell Steel Vengeance so I'll just write SteVen and pretend I'm being cool's "records" were made up. A hybrid coaster isn't a real thing, steel vs. wood is only determined by the type of track, what they use to support the ride is irrelevant. Either way, the GP doesn't care about those made up records that only enthusiasts would care about, they just care about the end game result.


Yes they definitely do. I think you have this backwards. Enthusiasts care about the end result and the GP cares about records.

The talk about RMC Gwazi being the most prolific park is because its at a 365 park, so close to Disney World, and at a higher tier park. Arguably Twisted Collosus has been the highest profile RMC so far -- in a 365 park, close to Disneyland, in the most prolific SF park, on a coaster that Hollywood loves to use.


With all due respect I think all of this is irrelevant. So what if it's a 365 park. Cedar Point actually has more guests than Magic Mountain despite being open less than half the time. BGT barley has more guests than CP. The fact is (according to the numbers) the vast majority of people who visit Disney are not visiting BGT. And if RMC's are enthusiasts coasters (and they are) then RMC Gwazi isn't going to attract the Disney crowd to BGT.



Don't get too tied up with CP. Its all of our favorite parks, but its not really a huge blip on the radar of the average American.


And BGT is? It could be argued that CP is the biggest blip on the radar behind Disney and Universal. When the average American wants to learn about parks and coasters they are going to go to something called Google and search "best parks/coasters in America". What they will come across are the GP ranking lists, the wikipedia record rankings, and the golden ticket awards. The park that is going to be mentioned the most by far is Cedar Point.

And, SeaWorld/Busch are in a higher tier than Six Flags/Cedar Fair. Come to think of it you could also say that Lightning Rod is up there, as Dollywood has some GP appeal. But of course it never actually runs.


Not sure what you mean by higher tier. SeaWorld is a more well known name nationwide but nobody outside the enthusiasts know that Busch Gardens is owned by them. So it's a little illogical to clump them together when talking about the GP. Based on all those things I said above I would say CP is more well known than Busch Gardens. And Dollywood isn't even in the top 20 most popular parks...

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby Garet » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:26 am

Gotta love TPR. Sometimes when I get an email notification about a new post, in this case, one of A.J.'s posts, not even having hit the debate/argument yet I'll scroll down and suddenly see I've got 4 pages of reading on what is usually a dead thread in the space of a few hours and I already know what I'm in for before I even have clicked to view the next page.

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby AndrewA86 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:05 am

Now that I think about it more, the GP doesn’t know the ride manufacturers. So trying to use them in an argument as to which is the most prolific RMC is like asking people who don’t watch football who will win the playoff games this weekend.


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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby Too Fast For Comfort » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:14 am

AndrewA86 wrote:
Too Fast For Comfort wrote:Do you think that people care about records? That's just a marketing thing. All of I am too stupid to spell Steel Vengeance so I'll just write I am too stupid to spell Steel Vengeance so I'll just write SteVen and pretend I'm being cool and pretend I'm being cool's "records" were made up. A hybrid coaster isn't a real thing, steel vs. wood is only determined by the type of track, what they use to support the ride is irrelevant. Either way, the GP doesn't care about those made up records that only enthusiasts would care about, they just care about the end game result.


Yes they definitely do. I think you have this backwards. Enthusiasts care about the end result and the GP cares about records.

The talk about RMC Gwazi being the most prolific park is because its at a 365 park, so close to Disney World, and at a higher tier park. Arguably Twisted Collosus has been the highest profile RMC so far -- in a 365 park, close to Disneyland, in the most prolific SF park, on a coaster that Hollywood loves to use.


With all due respect I think all of this is irrelevant. So what if it's a 365 park. Cedar Point actually has more guests than Magic Mountain despite being open less than half the time. BGT barley has more guests than CP. The fact is (according to the numbers) the vast majority of people who visit Disney are not visiting BGT. And if RMC's are enthusiasts coasters (and they are) then RMC Gwazi isn't going to attract the Disney crowd to BGT.



Don't get too tied up with CP. Its all of our favorite parks, but its not really a huge blip on the radar of the average American.


And BGT is? It could be argued that CP is the biggest blip on the radar behind Disney and Universal. When the average American wants to learn about parks and coasters they are going to go to something called Google and search "best parks/coasters in America". What they will come across are the GP ranking lists, the wikipedia record rankings, and the golden ticket awards. The park that is going to be mentioned the most by far is Cedar Point.

And, SeaWorld/Busch are in a higher tier than Six Flags/Cedar Fair. Come to think of it you could also say that Lightning Rod is up there, as Dollywood has some GP appeal. But of course it never actually runs.


Not sure what you mean by higher tier. SeaWorld is a more well known name nationwide but nobody outside the enthusiasts know that Busch Gardens is owned by them. So it's a little illogical to clump them together when talking about the GP. Based on all those things I said above I would say CP is more well known than Busch Gardens. And Dollywood isn't even in the top 20 most popular parks...


Well, here's the list of rankings:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amusement_park_rankings

SeaWorld Orlando is still holding off CP in terms of attendance (although considering that CP gets most of its business over a few month span of time and SWO is 365, CP is kicking the crap out of SWO). But that's also because SWO is a shell of what it used to be. Blackfish hit the parks with SeaWorld in their name hard.

But I still think that in terms of how the GP see things -- not necessarily us because we're a niche group -- theming, landscaping, and park aesthetics carry more weight than quality of unthemed, outdoor rides. So that's how Disney, Universal, and the SeaWorld parks are able to charge so much more and get people to travel from across America to attend them. The non-themed amusement parks generally just get locals to come who don't spend as much on a daily basis. SeaWorld is still incredibly expensive, so even though the park usually seems dead, they probably still make money, because they extract so much from guests. Its $100 for a ticket, and you don't see the generous discounts for their tickets that you have at the amusement parks unless you sit through a time-share presentation. Season passes also tend to be a higher multiplier over a single day ticket than the Six Flags parks and one-off regional parks.
Last edited by Too Fast For Comfort on Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:06 am.

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby Coasterguy21 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:33 am

Too Fast For Comfort wrote:[
Well, here's the list of rankings:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amusement_park_rankings

SeaWorld Orlando is still holding off CP in terms of attendance (although considering that CP gets most of its business over a few month span of time and SWO is 365, CP is kicking the crap out of CP). But that's also because SWO is a shell of what it used to be. Blackfish hit the parks with SeaWorld in their name hard.

But I still think that in terms of how the GP see things -- not necessarily us because we're a niche group -- theming, landscaping, and park aesthetics carry more weight than quality of unthemed, outdoor rides. So that's how Disney, Universal, and the SeaWorld parks are able to charge so much more and get people to travel from across America to attend them. The non-themed amusement parks generally just get locals to come who don't spend as much on a daily basis. SeaWorld is still incredibly expensive, so even though the park usually seems dead, they probably still make money, because they extract so much from guests. Its $100 for a ticket, and you don't see the generous discounts for their tickets that you have at the amusement parks unless you sit through a time-share presentation. Season passes also tend to be a higher multiplier over a single day ticket than the Six Flags parks and one-off regional parks.


Yes, those are the rankings we have been referencing the past few pages. People will travel for any park they feel is worthy to spend a vacation at based on their tastes. If we were to go off of theming or all-inclusive in every day vacation taking, no one would visit anywhere but Cancun, Hawaii or someplace in the Caribbean. Regional parks vs. Larger Parks is a different question. The fact that SeaWorld Orlando and Busch Gardens Tampa (both great parks and both in a large tourism market) pull in less than 500,000 more than Cedar Point, a seasonal park located in the middle of nowhere in a relatively mid-sized market does point to the fact that people do view it as a "destination" and not just a one-off. I get where you're coming from and the logic does work for some other parks in the Cedar Fair and Six Flags chains for sure. Operating season, however, does not have an impact on how people view a park, it just means its open less or more!

Too Fast For Comfort wrote:CP is kicking the crap out of CP

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