Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT Discussion Thread)

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby Dombot » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 am

A.J. wrote:
jedimaster1227 wrote:I think this was more likely a title grab for Tigris than something related to the Gwazi project.

Yes, and if I'm not mistaken, the trademark was for "Twisted Tiger" which implied one coaster and not two.

Call me out if I'm wrong, but wasn't there another name on the trademark... Uproar, wasn't it? It's not exactly tiger-related, so that could be a working name for the coaster(s?). Ya never know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby jedimaster1227 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:31 am

^Uproar was filed at the same time. I believe these were all related to what ended up as Tigris. I'd imagine we'll see the trademarks for Gwazi come out deeper in the construction process.
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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby AndrewA86 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:28 pm

Hilltopper39 wrote:I'm excited to see what they actually do with this thing. Will it still be two separate tracked racing/dueling coasters? converted into a single track with a single station like Colossus? Chopped up into one single long track with some of the structure removed? No idea but should be fun to see where this thing goes.

Also, will this be RMC's highest profile project to date? I guess Steel Vengeance was a pretty big deal in the coaster community, WIldfire looks amazing but is at a park that's a little off the beaten path. Busch Gardens is a year round park in the massively "visible" central Florida theme park market, probably the highest attended park to get an RMC to date. Feels like this could be a massive project for both the park and RMC.


I think they should go for a racing coaster. The only RMC racer would be really cool and unique. As far as being RMC's highest profile project to date, I gotta say no. SV broke a ton of records and I don't see the Gwazi structure producing something that can challenge SV. Mainly because Gwazi isn't that tall, and therefore wouldn't be that fast, unless there is a launch. But I'm sure the end result will be fantastic!

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby Too Fast For Comfort » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:59 am

AndrewA86 wrote:
Hilltopper39 wrote:I'm excited to see what they actually do with this thing. Will it still be two separate tracked racing/dueling coasters? converted into a single track with a single station like Colossus? Chopped up into one single long track with some of the structure removed? No idea but should be fun to see where this thing goes.

Also, will this be RMC's highest profile project to date? I guess Steel Vengeance was a pretty big deal in the coaster community, WIldfire looks amazing but is at a park that's a little off the beaten path. Busch Gardens is a year round park in the massively "visible" central Florida theme park market, probably the highest attended park to get an RMC to date. Feels like this could be a massive project for both the park and RMC.


I think they should go for a racing coaster. The only RMC racer would be really cool and unique. As far as being RMC's highest profile project to date, I gotta say no. SV broke a ton of records and I don't see the Gwazi structure producing something that can challenge SV. Mainly because Gwazi isn't that tall, and therefore wouldn't be that fast, unless there is a launch. But I'm sure the end result will be fantastic!


Do you think that people care about records? That's just a marketing thing. All of SteVen's "records" were made up. A hybrid coaster isn't a real thing, steel vs. wood is only determined by the type of track, what they use to support the ride is irrelevant. Either way, the GP doesn't care about those made up records that only enthusiasts would care about, they just care about the end game result.

The talk about RMC Gwazi being the most prolific park is because its at a 365 park, so close to Disney World, and at a higher tier park. Arguably Twisted Collosus has been the highest profile RMC so far -- in a 365 park, close to Disneyland, in the most prolific SF park, on a coaster that Hollywood loves to use.

Don't get too tied up with CP. Its all of our favorite parks, but its not really a huge blip on the radar of the average American. Its only the #3 Cedar Fair park in attendance actual (behind Knott's and Canada's Wonderland). SteVen was an enthusiast's coaster. The GP only really know and care about the Disney or Universal parks, and their home regional park. That's why Twisted Tiger could be so prolific -- its relatively close to WDW. And, SeaWorld/Busch are in a higher tier than Six Flags/Cedar Fair. Come to think of it you could also say that Lightning Rod is up there, as Dollywood has some GP appeal. But of course it never actually runs.

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby boldikus » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:29 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: I love TPR.

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby Coasterguy21 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:35 am

Too Fast For Comfort wrote:
Do you think that people care about records? That's just a marketing thing.


While yes it is just a marketing thing, marketing does go a long way! Especially for the GP. Building a record breaking coaster at one of the most popular amusement parks in the country (where it had been anticipated for quite some time to replace Mean Streak) does make it extremely high profile!

Too Fast For Comfort wrote:All of I am too stupid to spell Steel Vengeance so I'll just write SteVen and pretend I'm being cool's "records" were made up. A hybrid coaster isn't a real thing, steel vs. wood is only determined by the type of track, what they use to support the ride is irrelevant. Either way, the GP doesn't care about those made up records that only enthusiasts would care about, they just care about the end game result.


And yes, steel vs. wood is only determined by the type of track, but what they use to support the ride is NOT irrelevant! Wood structures handle support different than steel structures. Wood structures also have to be strengthened and replaced, and also have a bit more of a sway factor. The supports do help with ride experience in some ways, believe it or not (I mean, would the second half of Steel Vengeance be the same if you were not in a mess of wood? You could just be flying under steel supports and it wouldn't be nearly as fun or thrilling). And hybrids have been around for awhile...Gemini, Excalibur, Cedar Creek Mine Ride, Great White, Hades 360, Hoosier Hurricane, Voyage etc... And yes, while theoretically you can make up any record, these records are big for a park like Cedar Point to be able to tout. That's their history and they are used to marketing like that. The GP does care to look at records, they might ignore them in the long run because we've all heard things said in line that are blatantly false, but the records do have some effect on the GP (and, in some cases, the enthusiasts are the ones that tend not to care about records).

Too Fast For Comfort wrote: The talk about RMC Gwazi being the most prolific park is because its at a 365 park, so close to Disney World, and at a higher tier park. Arguably Twisted Collosus has been the highest profile RMC so far -- in a 365 park, close to Disneyland, in the most prolific SF park, on a coaster that Hollywood loves to use.

Don't get too tied up with CP. Its all of our favorite parks, but its not really a huge blip on the radar of the average American. Its only the #3 Cedar Fair park in attendance actual (behind Knott's and Canada's Wonderland). I am too stupid to spell Steel Vengeance so I'll just write SteVen and pretend I'm being cool was an enthusiast's coaster. The GP only really know and care about the Disney or Universal parks, and their home regional park. That's why Twisted Tiger could be so prolific -- its relatively close to WDW. And, SeaWorld/Busch are in a higher tier than Six Flags/Cedar Fair. Come to think of it you could also say that Lightning Rod is up there, as Dollywood has some GP appeal. But of course it never actually runs.


I'll agree with everyone there. This is, without a doubt, a highly prolific project for RMC. Busch Gardens Tampa is just outside the main tourist corridor of Orlando but still is able to pull from within that tourist region as well as beachgoers and local population (That stretch of I-4 from Tampa/St. Pete over towards the Space Coast his fairly densely populated). This will be the most attended park, in the grand scheme of things, that they are building at. And who knows what it may lead to? SeaWorld may love working with them and decide to put in a Topper Track at SeaWorld Orlando, right smackdab in tourist central!

Twisted Colossus was a big project, and I'll say it and Steel Vengeance are pretty much the two big ones to date, with Lightning Rod being up there too due to its uniqueness. At the time Twisted Colossus opened, the park wasn't open 365. Everyone can argue what a flagship is versus whatever, but I believe that Great America & Great Adventure have more to offer than Magic Mountain (of course, that's my opinion). Also, its proximity to Disneyland is a moot point. They are 2.5 to 3 hours apart with traffic and SFMM is too focused on thrills to be able to draw many families with young children to the park.

As for Cedar Point ranking in attendance compared to other Cedar Fair parks. I obviously love the park as it sparked my passion for coasters, but it being #3 is proof at how great it is. And it isn't the enthusiasts that make it so because they don't make up as much of the attendance as families do.
-Knotts Berry Farm - Knotts is located in the Los Angeles Metro Area and just 20-30 minutes from Disneyland. It is open year round, is themed and geared towards families and thrill seekers alike in a tourism market. Of course it will have high attendance numbers and I hope that continues.
-Canada's Wonderland is located in a metro area with almost 6 million people and it is the only real amusement park around.

Compare that to Cedar Point, built in a non-tourist market and its closest big market (Cleveland) has a metro area just over 2 million. For 2017 (because 2018 numbers aren't available yet), according to the Themed Entertainment Association's Global Attractions attendance report, Knotts pulled in about 460,000 more people than Cedar Point, a significant number, but that's to be expected in its market. Canada's Wonderland pulled in 156,000 more people. That is a significant note due to its location. Cedar Point actually pulled in almost 300,000 more than Six Flags Magic Mountain that year and Cedar Point was also only 320,000 behind Busch Gardens Tampa. My point here isn't to be a Cedar Point fanboy, but you keep writing it off because there are other parks that are attended more. That's the way it works with markets. But, for its market, Cedar Point can hold its own and it isn't just the enthusiast that keep the place going!

Going by those attendance numbers alone, yes, this project is prolific (and you can bet it'll break records that Busch Gardens will want to advertise). It is their most prolific in terms park attendance and park location (and BGT is one of my favorite parks). But in terms of scope of project, Steel Vengeance may be hard to beat! Not saying it won't though, we'll find out soon enough! I'll agree with you on some aspects and agree to disagree on the others.
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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby A.J. » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:01 am

boldikus wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: I love TPR.

Yes. Best word filter ever, Steel Vengeance's enthusiast nickname is so silly.

As for the new coaster itself, I'd air that very few guests will care that it's Rocky Mountain's "highest profile installation" in their history. It's a new, insane, awesome Rocky Mountain coaster replacing a rough, boring wooden coaster, what more is there to say?
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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby Too Fast For Comfort » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:02 am

Coasterguy21:

First thing, you made a lot of really good points, and were friendly for the most part, but using the quote function and changing what I wrote is so not cool man. I would appreciate if you edited and removed the quotes that you used of me. I don't want something floating around the internet of something I clearly did not say. I think its a total waste of time of type out Steel Vengeance when we all know what I'm talking about (its a terrible name anyway for such a great coaster, so there's not a huge need to get bent out of shape over not writing it out).

But anyways, my observation is that the GP for the most part cares about theming over speed and thrills. But quality theming is a lot more expensive and hard to pull off, so that's why only a few parks attempt the theming, and the regional parks and SF and CF duke it outo over the thrills. So my argument for RMC Gwazi rests on the idea that people will care more about the rides with great themes and stories (or in this case proximity to parks like that) over the big rides where you throw stats and numbers at people.

Mean Streak RMC was a huge opening for the local markets who love CP and for all enthusiasts, but it wasn't like it was exactly getting national media attention -- maybe some of the paid off clickbait that may have been blasted around the internet. Hopefully there's a day where the majority of America loves thrill rides, but for now, its something that's regional or niche based.

Incidentally Steel Vengeance is a coaster that is amazing regardless of what actual or made-up records it may or may not have. When you ride it, you just understand the excellence behind it. No stats or records needed.

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby coasterbill » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:05 am

Too Fast For Comfort wrote:First thing, you made a lot of really good points, and were friendly for the most part, but using the quote function and changing what I wrote is so not cool man.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby Coasterguy21 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:11 am

Too Fast For Comfort wrote:Coasterguy21:

First thing, you made a lot of really good points, and were friendly for the most part, but using the quote function and changing what I wrote is so not cool man. I would appreciate if you edited and removed the quotes that you used of me. I don't want something floating around the internet of something I clearly did not say. I think its a total waste of time of type out Steel Vengeance when we all know what I'm talking about (its a terrible name anyway for such a great coaster, so there's not a huge need to get bent out of shape over not writing it out).

But anyways, my observation is that the GP for the most part cares about theming over speed and thrills. But quality theming is a lot more expensive and hard to pull off, so that's why only a few parks attempt the theming, and the regional parks and SF and CF duke it outo over the thrills. So my argument for RMC Gwazi rests on the idea that people will care more about the rides with great themes and stories (or in this case proximity to parks like that) over the big rides where you throw stats and numbers at people.

Mean Streak RMC was a huge opening for the local markets who love CP and for all enthusiasts, but it wasn't like it was exactly getting national media attention -- maybe some of the paid off clickbait that may have been blasted around the internet. Hopefully there's a day where the majority of America loves thrill rides, but for now, its something that's regional or niche based.

Incidentally Steel Vengeance is a coaster that is amazing regardless of what actual or made-up records it may or may not have. When you ride it, you just understand the excellence behind it. No stats or records needed.


You might want to double check that! It's called a word filter. When you don't type out Steel Vengeance and abbreviate it, that's what comes up. It's even in your original post. The site automatically does it. And it's absolutely hilarious whenever it happens (especially when the new people realize it). There are tons of good ones out there
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Steel Vengeance did have quite a bit of media attention (even nationally) on opening day. It's a great ride.

A.J. wrote:
boldikus wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: I love TPR.

Yes. Best word filter ever, Steel Vengeance's enthusiast nickname is so silly.

As for the new coaster itself, I'd air that very few guests will care that it's Rocky Mountain's "highest profile installation" in their history. It's a new, insane, awesome Rocky Mountain coaster replacing a rough, boring wooden coaster, what more is there to say?


This! 100%. I'm so excited over this coaster.
Last edited by Coasterguy21 on Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:30 am.
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