Walt Disney World Magic Kingdom Discussion Thread

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Re: Walt Disney World Magic Kingdom Discussion Thread

Postby Nrthwnd » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:21 pm

With all the Mardi Gras beads, necklaces, masks, cups and coins this attraction is going to be flooded with (strings of beads in the trees!) in the overall theming, it's going to be so SPARKLY, especially in that big finale scene! :lover:

By the way, since they started working on this revamp over a year ago, I wonder what their original timeline was with this, and now what it would be, having had the pandemic interrupt the work on it? Disneyland's, as well?
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Re: Walt Disney World Magic Kingdom Discussion Thread

Postby SoCalJasonland » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:54 pm

A smart judge in Florida ruled with Disneyworld that being autistic doesn't entitle someone to an unlimited front of the line pass under the ADA. He correctly ruled that it would cause other guests unreasonable delays.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/judge-sides-disney-case-autistic-221058000.html

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...
"Lorman, president of the Autism Society of Greater Orlando, said the extra waiting was hard for her son who didn’t understand the concept of time. At Disney, he needed to visit the rides in a particular order or he would have a meltdown, she said.

She had asked 10 passes to the Magic Kingdom so her son could ride his favorite attractions by going directly into the FastPass line.

If Lorman’s son got special access, others would see it on social media and demand it, too, the judge said.

“Requiring the modification, based on the history of the former system, would lead to fraud and overuse, lengthen the wait times significantly for non-disabled guests, and fundamentally alter Disney’s business model,” Conway wrote."
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Re: Walt Disney World Magic Kingdom Discussion Thread

Postby Garet » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:59 am

This isn’t the first discussion on autism and theme parks and it won’t be the last but it’s worth remembering not all parents are looking to game the system.

Maybe an unpopular opinion here. The thing to remember is autism is a spectrum. There are so many cases where people are going to have almost completely normal lives but others who really will struggle day to day. I remember the discussion on Knobels and people on social media glad a ride was removed because it affected their autistic child.

The problem is on social media there are people who’s children probably are placed extremely low but will be commenting on park groups wanting the attention and to be told constantly how brave they are or expect extra perks when they go to places, who will share every chain status they can for some attention.

But there is another group that you’ll probably never hear from. They won’t be posting everywhere because they know the children won’t like the attention. They’ll be speaking privately or hidden away. Who plan for months their park trips for their family (there are many who have normal children and autistic together), researching and asking trusted people for advice on places in the park.

They’re not looking for unlimited fast pass to avoid breakdowns because they know chances are it will be unavoidable. They’ll be researching where are the quietest places for it to happen or refreshing the app at midnight to try and get fast pass for the rides their kids need to reduce the amount of times it happens.

They’re doing that for other people, not themselves. They know their day is going to be stressful and they’re trying to minimize disrupting other people’s days. I’m pretty sure they’d love nothing more than to be able to line up with their child instead of needing to find a way to skip the line.

Now in the case above, I think that result was inevitable. I think realistically, if her child has that many needs, she should have expected meltdowns regardless and planned for it. I don't want to presume too much but if they are that focused on order, I don't see how in a park with so many variables you could have avoided it. What if the seat on a ride they want is taken, or someone taller gets in the way on a different ride? It seems even more strange coming from a president of a Autistic society.

I guess what I’m saying is It’s easy to forget amongst news stories like this and with people wanting attention and commenting to parks how their day was somehow ruined just bear in mind there are people who genuinely struggle and that's worth keeping in mind sometimes.

I think sometimes it’s worth more of a discussion than just noticing something over the top calling someone a smart judge and moving on. I remember a while back Disney had to change its disabled policy due to abuse. Unfortunately, again due to a spectrum, I personally believe that autism is even easier to exploit by people who want the perks or to hand wave away some behaviors. Again, the vocal minority you see in comments on public groups or news articles makes it harder for the people who really do need some help to find some benefits. Obviously, for my post I’ve used the two extreme ends of the spectrum but after 10 years of being a teacher, it’s hard when there are so many different versions and people from parents who want an easy excuse to children who have quirks but can manage to those where you can see the parents work hard for their child and to not affect others.

I don’t know what Disney’s actual policy is for this kind of issue. I always thought if the meltdown is inevitable, to do something similar to child swap so someone can line up and the meltdown can happen where it won’t disturb others but it’s always going to be hard when there are so many people who have children low on the spectrum who can line up easily but will try and game the system every chance they get. There’s no perfect answer and I think it’s almost impossible for any park to tell who is going for attention and really needs help, and I sadly think this is one condition that gets exploited a lot more than people realize that it does make it harder on the people who do genuinely need it.
Last edited by Garet on Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:37 am.

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Re: Walt Disney World Magic Kingdom Discussion Thread

Postby A.J. » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:35 am

Garet wrote:I remember a while back Disney had to change its disabled policy due to abuse. Unfortunately, again due to a spectrum, I personally believe that autism is even easier to exploit by people who want the perks or to hand wave away some behaviours. Again, the vocal minority you see in comments on public groups or news articles makes it harder for the people who really do need some help to find some benefits. Obviously for my post I’ve used the two extreme ends of the spectrum but after 10 years of being a teacher it’s hard when there are so many different versions and people from parents who want an easy excuse to children who have quirks but can manage to those where you can see the parents work hard for their child and to not affect others.

I don’t know what Disney’s actual policy is. I always thought if the meltdown is inevitable to have a child swap so someone can line up and the meltdown can happen where it won’t disturb others but it’s always going to be hard when there are so many people who have children low on the spectrum who can line up easily but will try and game the system every chance they get.

Correct, the aforementioned lawsuit is one of the situations which led to today's version of the Disability Access Service Card. The new policies were put in place specifically to curb abuse.
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Re: Walt Disney World Magic Kingdom Discussion Thread

Postby tinaalsgirl » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:47 am

Great post, Garet!

I'm autistic, and I cannot *stand* "Autism Moms". That vocal minority makes it *very* difficult for autistic people to get their voices heard.

I think this is an okay ruling. I understand that there needs to be a balance.

The best thing I can think of for Disney to be able to help accommodate autistic people is to continue updating their queue lines; for example, I found it a lot easier to stand in line and not be bored at Space Mountain because they had all those games on the walls or whatever. And while I haven't been on Big Thunder since they redid the queue, I've seen pics of the stuff they added and that's great.

Disney probably did those updated queues thinking mostly about little kids and keeping them distracted, but a bonus is that that can also help people like me. So I think they should keep doing that.

Also, maybe they should consider implementing more virtual queues and make waiting areas like the new Dumbo. I've always thought that was such a great idea - give kids a place to run around and play while waiting "in line". I think virtual queues are probably the best option for helping autistic people avoid meltdowns from long waits.

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Re: Walt Disney World Magic Kingdom Discussion Thread

Postby SoCalJasonland » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:51 am

A.J. wrote:
Garet wrote:I remember a while back Disney had to change its disabled policy due to abuse. Unfortunately, again due to a spectrum, I personally believe that autism is even easier to exploit by people who want the perks or to hand wave away some behaviours. Again, the vocal minority you see in comments on public groups or news articles makes it harder for the people who really do need some help to find some benefits. Obviously for my post I’ve used the two extreme ends of the spectrum but after 10 years of being a teacher it’s hard when there are so many different versions and people from parents who want an easy excuse to children who have quirks but can manage to those where you can see the parents work hard for their child and to not affect others.

I don’t know what Disney’s actual policy is. I always thought if the meltdown is inevitable to have a child swap so someone can line up and the meltdown can happen where it won’t disturb others but it’s always going to be hard when there are so many people who have children low on the spectrum who can line up easily but will try and game the system every chance they get.

Correct, the aforementioned lawsuit is one of the situations which led to today's version of the Disability Access Service Card. The new policies were put in place specifically to curb abuse.


I agree with the child swap and current disability access card, but the last time the Disney parks allowed disabled people immediate skip the line privileges at either coast, the policy was horribly abused by non-disabled people. Either the rich or the dishonest people lied for cards or paid others for their access. I was glad we were not repeating past mistakes. It was well known from online posts that Disneyland couldn't ask you to prove your disability, so the disabled lines grew as long as the regular lines. So, I guess my problem is more with the mass of dishonest people compared with the few actual disabled people.
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Re: Walt Disney World Magic Kingdom Discussion Thread

Postby A.J. » Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:03 pm

tinaalsgirl wrote:Disney probably did those updated queues thinking mostly about little kids and keeping them distracted, but a bonus is that that can also help people like me. So I think they should keep doing that.

Bad news unfortunately, they're pushing any and all game elements to the Play Disney Parks app, including the Space Mountain games. The queue is just ambient screens now.
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Re: Walt Disney World Magic Kingdom Discussion Thread

Postby tinaalsgirl » Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:54 pm

Oh. Bummer. I mean, a phone works, too... if you have one. I've got a smartphone now, finally, but I know there are a lot of people out there who don't.

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Re: Walt Disney World Magic Kingdom Discussion Thread

Postby KarlaKoaster » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:16 am

I watched a vlog today (yeah yeah, I know, but I enjoy the 5% of vloggers who aren't annoying), and one useful takeaway that I wanted to tell people was that in terms of masks, the neck gaitor styles which are quite popular are not allowed, not even ones with ear holes. Just thought I'd let anyone considering visiting know.

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Re: Walt Disney World Magic Kingdom Discussion Thread

Postby Haymaker » Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:30 am

KarlaKoaster wrote:I watched a vlog today (yeah yeah, I know, but I enjoy the 5% of vloggers who aren't annoying), and one useful takeaway that I wanted to tell people was that in terms of masks, the neck gaitor styles which are quite popular are not allowed, not even ones with ear holes. Just thought I'd let anyone considering visiting know.

I dont understand that one, it covers a lot more than masks do.

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