Six Flags Corporate Discussion Thread

P. 130 - Six Flags 2019 Announcements
Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest
Discuss theme parks, roller coasters, and mules!
I Guess Donkeys Are Okay
 
Posts: 22
Joined: 23 Feb 2018
Gender: None specified

Re: Six Flags Corporate Discussion Thread

Postby Lemur » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:00 am

RAWKIN_coaster38 wrote:
Too Fast For Comfort wrote:It looks like a key word here is "without the parents permission." So in the future, they could probably do it as long as the parents attend with the kid for at least one visit, go to guest relations, and fill out some brief forms. So I don't see this really being huge blow to Six Flags. Truth be told, I think it makes sense to have some parental or guardian supervision for 14 year olds at parks anyway.

When I read about this situation, I just had this image of a distracted mom and a bored, teenage Six Flags employee ushering guests through and instructing the 14-year-old to put their finger on the scanner before the mom realized what was happening. What I don't get is how you go from the moment when you realize your kid put their finger on the scanner without your consent to filing a lawsuit against Six Flags. Seriously, do you have something to hide or are you just that money-hungry/American white butthurt about everything (assuming this lady was white, but maybe not)? :roll:
I mean I don't have kids and obviously I go to a lot of theme parks but is it that difficult to realize that a. your kid is getting their finger scanned "without your consent" and b. Six Flags does this as well as Disney and a lot of theme parks?


Actually, the issue is that Illinois law required AFFIRMATIVE consent, meaning you have to actually answer "YES" to having your biometrics (or your kid's biometrics) on file. From the legal standpoint, it requires that consent is noticed or called-out and not buried in the TOS or other contract and the person actually says that yes, they consent to it. It's usually a seperate form or it's in a call-out box that's differentiated from the rest of the contract. Other states rely on implied consent, meaning that they can just stick it in the user agreement with no bells and whistles.

Also, the mother is a privacy advocate nut. She's not looking for money. And if you are looking for money, a class action is a crappy way to get some unless you're the lawyers arguing it. Most settlements end up being split 70-30 between the lawyers and their clients, with the clients splitting the 30% among themselves. If you join the suit, you essentially end up with a check for $2.68 at the end of the day in cases like this, were the "harm" is hypothetical as opposed to real. Obviously, other class actions that concern personal injury or monetary injury (you know, like the local utility poisoning your wells or your bank opening fake accounts in your name and then charging you fees for them) are a bit more lucrative, but even then you rarely get back all that you lost monetarily.

Too Slow For Comfort
 
Posts: 202
Joined: 20 Dec 2018
Location: Tampa, FL
Gender: Male

Re: Six Flags Corporate Discussion Thread

Postby Too Fast For Comfort » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:07 pm

OK, if it was the violation of a law, that's a different story. But knowing Six Flags, it was probably due to ignorance of the law as opposed to them really hoping that they could break a low and get away with it. Its a company that's headquartered in Texas that can barely even fully staff its parks. I doubt that they execs are really studying every state's case law and legal code from cover to cover before they make decisions.

As for the law itself... I think its unnecessary. I'd be OK with making the law so that it prohibited the company from selling your data or giving it to anyone else, but I think that guests already have the ability to opt out -- they just choose not to go to the park. I'm sure that Six Flags would make other accommodations if they just explained that they weren't OK with biometric scanning.

Online
Why do I still have a donkey title???
User avatar
 
Posts: 6568
Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Location: These Ozarks Hills
Gender: Male
Age: 34

Re: Six Flags Corporate Discussion Thread

Postby ytterbiumanalyst » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:24 pm

Too Fast For Comfort wrote:OK, if it was the violation of a law, that's a different story. But knowing Six Flags, it was probably due to ignorance of the law as opposed to them really hoping that they could break a low and get away with it. Its a company that's headquartered in Texas that can barely even fully staff its parks. I doubt that they execs are really studying every state's case law and legal code from cover to cover before they make decisions.

No, they hire lawyers who study the relevant laws in jurisdictions where SF operates pertaining to the decisions the execs want to make.

I know you've got it in for Six Flags, but they do know what they're doing here. You don't have to be incompetent to find yourself in a court case. Sometimes people just interpret the law differently.
Image

Too Slow For Comfort
 
Posts: 202
Joined: 20 Dec 2018
Location: Tampa, FL
Gender: Male

Re: Six Flags Corporate Discussion Thread

Postby Too Fast For Comfort » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:46 am

ytterbiumanalyst wrote:
Too Fast For Comfort wrote:OK, if it was the violation of a law, that's a different story. But knowing Six Flags, it was probably due to ignorance of the law as opposed to them really hoping that they could break a low and get away with it. Its a company that's headquartered in Texas that can barely even fully staff its parks. I doubt that they execs are really studying every state's case law and legal code from cover to cover before they make decisions.

No, they hire lawyers who study the relevant laws in jurisdictions where SF operates pertaining to the decisions the execs want to make.

I know you've got it in for Six Flags, but they do know what they're doing here. You don't have to be incompetent to find yourself in a court case. Sometimes people just interpret the law differently.


"Have it in for Six Flags." Saying that about the guy who has a Diamond Elite membership for the chain. You just completely overestimate companies in America. They obviously have a law firm on retainer, but I doubt that they have in-house lawyers like a bank or a Fortune 500 company would. When you're paying the law firm by the hour, they can't be perfect. Mistakes will be made, and you can't keep on top of every little law in every state in the country. You do what you can, but the law all comes down to what you can reasonably do.

I Guess Donkeys Are Okay
 
Posts: 22
Joined: 23 Feb 2018
Gender: None specified

Re: Six Flags Corporate Discussion Thread

Postby Lemur » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:17 am

Too Fast For Comfort wrote:OK, if it was the violation of a law, that's a different story. But knowing Six Flags, it was probably due to ignorance of the law as opposed to them really hoping that they could break a low and get away with it. Its a company that's headquartered in Texas that can barely even fully staff its parks. I doubt that they execs are really studying every state's case law and legal code from cover to cover before they make decisions.


Not really. Believe it or not, laws are very much open to interpretation, which is why we have courts and judges. And companies rarely rely on their in-house legal staff for that sort of expertise. They retain local counsel in every jurisdiction their parks are in to make sure that their ducks are in a row. Additionally, when you're a national company, you don't tailor your contract to each and every jurisdiction. You simply can't, not when you're selling your passes nationally and internationally. You draft it as best you can to meet the requirements of all the laws. I'm sure SixFlags - much like Alphabet, who'd had a similar issue with their Nest doorbells (and lost and had to disable a feature that would unlock the door based on facial biometrics) - thought they'd sufficiently met the requirements of the law based upon their own interpretation of the law and advice of local counsel. And since none of this happens in a vacuum, you also look at how your competitors or other using biometrics are structuring their disclosure.

As for the law itself... I think its unnecessary. I'd be OK with making the law so that it prohibited the company from selling your data or giving it to anyone else, but I think that guests already have the ability to opt out -- they just choose not to go to the park. I'm sure that Six Flags would make other accommodations if they just explained that they weren't OK with biometric scanning.


Again, that's not what the law or the suit is about. The issue is that the contract does not meet state affirmative consent requirements - they were not informed that it was being collected, nor told how that data would be used or stored. It has nothing to do with the ability to opt out of having your biometrics collected. Her complaint is that the contract does not ask for Affirmative Consent to collect biometric information as required by the state of Illinois. And quite frankly, unless you're an IL resident, it really doesn't matter how you feel about it. If you think it's too restrictive, don't open a business that collects biometrics in Illinois.

"Have it in for Six Flags." Saying that about the guy who has a Diamond Elite membership for the chain. You just completely overestimate companies in America. They obviously have a law firm on retainer, but I doubt that they have in-house lawyers like a bank or a Fortune 500 company would. When you're paying the law firm by the hour, they can't be perfect. Mistakes will be made, and you can't keep on top of every little law in every state in the country. You do what you can, but the law all comes down to what you can reasonably do.


I know this isn't directed at me, but they absolutely have in-house counsel - their GC's name is Lance Balk - as well as they retain Perkins Coie in NYC. They also contract with local law firms in every state they have parks and in Delaware (where they're organized), as well in the localities their international parks are in.

BTW, that's public information if you know where to look, namely the SEC's website.

Online
"It's not small, but it is very 'average.'"
User avatar
 
Posts: 10637
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Location: Northridge, CA
Gender: Male
Age: 33

Re: Six Flags Corporate Discussion Thread

Postby Jew » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:43 am

Lemur wrote:
Too Fast For Comfort wrote:OK, if it was the violation of a law, that's a different story. But knowing Six Flags, it was probably due to ignorance of the law as opposed to them really hoping that they could break a low and get away with it. Its a company that's headquartered in Texas that can barely even fully staff its parks. I doubt that they execs are really studying every state's case law and legal code from cover to cover before they make decisions.


Not really. Believe it or not, laws are very much open to interpretation, which is why we have courts and judges. And companies rarely rely on their in-house legal staff for that sort of expertise. They retain local counsel in every jurisdiction their parks are in to make sure that their ducks are in a row. Additionally, when you're a national company, you don't tailor your contract to each and every jurisdiction. You simply can't, not when you're selling your passes nationally and internationally. You draft it as best you can to meet the requirements of all the laws. I'm sure SixFlags - much like Alphabet, who'd had a similar issue with their Nest doorbells (and lost and had to disable a feature that would unlock the door based on facial biometrics) - thought they'd sufficiently met the requirements of the law based upon their own interpretation of the law and advice of local counsel. And since none of this happens in a vacuum, you also look at how your competitors or other using biometrics are structuring their disclosure.

As for the law itself... I think its unnecessary. I'd be OK with making the law so that it prohibited the company from selling your data or giving it to anyone else, but I think that guests already have the ability to opt out -- they just choose not to go to the park. I'm sure that Six Flags would make other accommodations if they just explained that they weren't OK with biometric scanning.


Again, that's not what the law or the suit is about. The issue is that the contract does not meet state affirmative consent requirements - they were not informed that it was being collected, nor told how that data would be used or stored. It has nothing to do with the ability to opt out of having your biometrics collected. Her complaint is that the contract does not ask for Affirmative Consent to collect biometric information as required by the state of Illinois. And quite frankly, unless you're an IL resident, it really doesn't matter how you feel about it. If you think it's too restrictive, don't open a business that collects biometrics in Illinois.

"Have it in for Six Flags." Saying that about the guy who has a Diamond Elite membership for the chain. You just completely overestimate companies in America. They obviously have a law firm on retainer, but I doubt that they have in-house lawyers like a bank or a Fortune 500 company would. When you're paying the law firm by the hour, they can't be perfect. Mistakes will be made, and you can't keep on top of every little law in every state in the country. You do what you can, but the law all comes down to what you can reasonably do.


I know this isn't directed at me, but they absolutely have in-house counsel - their GC's name is Lance Balk - as well as they retain Perkins Coie in NYC. They also contract with local law firms in every state they have parks and in Delaware (where they're organized), as well in the localities their international parks are in.

BTW, that's public information if you know where to look, namely the SEC's website.


This is a fantastic summary. Thanks for that!
Image

Online
Why do I still have a donkey title???
User avatar
 
Posts: 6568
Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Location: These Ozarks Hills
Gender: Male
Age: 34

Re: Six Flags Corporate Discussion Thread

Postby ytterbiumanalyst » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:55 am

Too Fast For Comfort wrote:you can't keep on top of every little law in every state in the country.

No, and they don't need to. They keep on top of the specific laws in the specific jurisdictions where they operate pertaining to how Six Flags wants to run its business. Keep up with us.
Image

I Guess Donkeys Are Okay
 
Posts: 22
Joined: 23 Feb 2018
Gender: None specified

Re: Six Flags Corporate Discussion Thread

Postby Lemur » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:08 pm

ytterbiumanalyst wrote:
Too Fast For Comfort wrote:you can't keep on top of every little law in every state in the country.

No, and they don't need to. They keep on top of the specific laws in the specific jurisdictions where they operate pertaining to how Six Flags wants to run its business. Keep up with us.


There's an entire sub-industry built around making sure that lawyers are completely up-to-date on the most current laws pertaining to their fields of expertise, as well as the fact that all states require Continuing Legal Education.

Online
Why do I still have a donkey title???
User avatar
 
Posts: 6568
Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Location: These Ozarks Hills
Gender: Male
Age: 34

Re: Six Flags Corporate Discussion Thread

Postby ytterbiumanalyst » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:10 pm

Oh yeah, totally. I'm just making it clear that the reason Too Fast for Comfort keeps trying to make the point that it's impossible for Six Flags to know what laws apply to them is because he has no idea what he's talking about.
Image

I Guess Donkeys Are Okay
 
Posts: 22
Joined: 23 Feb 2018
Gender: None specified

Re: Six Flags Corporate Discussion Thread

Postby Lemur » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:12 pm

ytterbiumanalyst wrote:Oh yeah, totally. I'm just making it clear that the reason Too Fast for Comfort keeps trying to make the point that it's impossible for Six Flags to know what laws apply to them is because he has no idea what he's talking about.


:nina:

PreviousNext

Return to Theme Parks, Roller Coasters, & Donkeys!

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest

These pages are in no way affiliated with nor endorsed by SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment, Cedar Fair, Legoland, Merlin Entertainment,
Blackstone, Tussaud's Group, Six Flags, Universal Theme Parks, the Walt Disney Company or any other theme park company.

All onride photos and videos on this website were taken with the permission of the park by a professional ride photographer.
For yours  and others safety, please do not attempt to take photos or videos at parks without proper permission.

Disclaimer!  You need a sense of humor to view our site, 
if you don't have a sense of humor, or are easily offended, please turn back now!
Most of the content on this forum is suitable for all ages. HOWEVER!
There may be some content that would be considered rated "PG-13."
Theme Park Review is NOT recommended for ages under 13 years of age.

cron