Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

P. 4740: Cedar Points Nights 2019 details released!
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Re: Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

Postby TBpony414 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:08 pm

Blatch wrote:That reverse-banked overhead turn looks amazing and utterly ridiculous. It might be the best element on what's looking to be a world-class ride... in a park that already has Maverick and Millennium Force. Consider us hyped. :angel:


I'm curious to see what becomes of Maverick's normally long line with NMS debuting next year. It could go one of two ways: Mav will have no line because everyone is flocking over to NMS... or, NMS has such a long line that people don't want to wait and so they go to Maverick next door which means Mav's line won't really change. Either way, Millennium Force will continue to crank out trains of happy riders. We're getting a freaking kick ass RMC next to an amazing Blitz so it's all good! :airtime:

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Re: Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

Postby eltoro » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:41 pm

TBpony414 wrote:
Blatch wrote:That reverse-banked overhead turn looks amazing and utterly ridiculous. It might be the best element on what's looking to be a world-class ride... in a park that already has Maverick and Millennium Force. Consider us hyped. :angel:


I'm curious to see what becomes of Maverick's normally long line with NMS debuting next year. It could go one of two ways: Mav will have no line because everyone is flocking over to NMS... or, NMS has such a long line that people don't want to wait and so they go to Maverick next door which means Mav's line won't really change. Either way, Millennium Force will continue to crank out trains of happy riders. We're getting a freaking kick A$$ RMC next to an amazing Blitz so it's all good! :airtime:


With MS closed Maverick line usually really short till about 1045 -11am. My 2017 with early entry strategy was Valravyn 2x, Millenuium 2x and then trek to the back of the park and ride Maverick till the line starts to get long. Easily got 5 Maverick rides in, some days could get double digits. I usually never come back to Maverick till twilight. Next year I'm heading to RMC MS at early entry and doing a marathon till the line gets long. The great thing about the back is even when they let the swarm in at 10, it still takes 10-15 minutes to walk to the back of the park if they walk straight with no stops. But, most GP's are going to see Gatekeeper, Raptor, Valaryn and TTD and thus take even longer to get to the back. There is also the fact many will have no idea about RMC Mean Streak till they wonder upon it. The last 2 big new coasters have been front of the park attractions, thus easily noticed.

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Re: Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroGravity55 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:25 pm

thrilladdict wrote:RMC doesn't make the magnets or launch control system but they are certainly responsible for making sure that they choose a supplier for such things that has their stuff together. If someone sells McD's a batch of mayo that gets a bunch of people sick guess who's going to be blamed?

RMC's engineering might have been perfect but their choice of launch supplier clearly was not, that falls on them.


Everyone thinks that the launch is the problem, technically speaking, the launch works fine. What the launch did cause was that RMC had to redesign the whole bottom portion of their train to accommodate the fins of the launch. This forced them to have move sensors, drive tires and anything else that came into contact with the bottom of the train. The issue seems to be the trains, which is why they're still only using one train and both trains seemed to had disappeared when LR had it's extended downtime earlier this season. I also don't think it's a coincidence that RMC is rolling out a brand new design of trains for all their new rides next year.

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Re: Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

Postby Arthur_Seaton » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:50 pm

BigBad wrote:
Arthur_Seaton wrote:I'm still not sure about that massive outward-banked turn. I'm looking forward to seeing the ride in operation (and riding someday), but I'm probably one of very few people here who isn't a fan of RMC's outward-bank airtime moments. If the train takes that element at speed (which it will, given the height of that drop) it's going to slam you into the restraints and pin you there pretty hard. If it's more sustained than the smaller outward-banks RMC has done so far, I think it might produce a different effect, but I'm still side-eyeing it a bit. Also, the outward bank on the return lap that dips back into the main structure (the one that runs next to the first drop) looks like it's going to be very intense. It's a crazy-looking ride overall, and I am really looking forward to seeing some official stats here soon.
The airtime vector and the lateral G vector should be fairly independent of each other. There can be some force straight up into the restraint, which is just air like we'd expect from RMC, and then there can be a distinct force to the side. Since the track is banked, the sideways force has more to do with how the track changes in the vertical direction.

I don't have a good feel for how that hill is shaped, but it's certainly possible to engineer it so that there is a strong force up into the restraint like you'd get from an RMC air hill, yet the sideways forces are balanced, and this can be done at any banking angle. My lone experience with RMC is Wicked Cyclone, where they did not follow this plan and have strong lateral forces on the outward-banked moments, but I've heard from others that Outlaw Run has an outward banked moment where it feels like a standard ejector hill, but you see the ground to your side instead of below you.


Yeah, it's a little hard to tell exactly what it'll be like at this point. The outward-bank turn on TC is weird. It's not really a lateral force, but it pulls you downward while you're tipped on your side. I suspect that's kind of what this will be like — a launch up into the restraints followed by an intense drag back down at a weird angle. It'll be a good hands-up moment, but that's kind of true for all RMCs!

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Re: Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

Postby coasterbill » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:21 pm

TBpony414 wrote:
Blatch wrote:That reverse-banked overhead turn looks amazing and utterly ridiculous. It might be the best element on what's looking to be a world-class ride... in a park that already has Maverick and Millennium Force. Consider us hyped. :angel:


I'm curious to see what becomes of Maverick's normally long line with NMS debuting next year. It could go one of two ways: Mav will have no line because everyone is flocking over to NMS... or, NMS has such a long line that people don't want to wait and so they go to Maverick next door which means Mav's line won't really change. Either way, Millennium Force will continue to crank out trains of happy riders. We're getting a freaking kick A$$ RMC next to an amazing Blitz so it's all good! :airtime:


When Gatekeeper opened I felt like that drew a lot of people into a pretty dead section of the park and everything over there started seeing increased wait times because of it. I feel like the exact same thing is going to happen here.

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Re: Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

Postby Mossed » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:01 pm

^ Same. I'm guessing the Valravn line is going to take the biggest hit with the opening of New Mean Streak.
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Re: Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

Postby coasterbill » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:09 pm

I definitely agree with that. I feel like Valravn will eventually be a lot like Gatekeeper where it gets lines early in the day but it's capacity / reduced demand will lead to much shorter waits most of the time. I still expect it to be around 1.5+ million guests each year and a tremendous crowd pleaser, I just expect shorter wait times.

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Re: Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

Postby DoubleDown » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:10 pm

Awesome update! Thanks for the photos and video. Already planning on CP 2018 for Meaner Streak!

ZeroGravity55 wrote:Everyone thinks that the launch is the problem, technically speaking, the launch works fine.


I may be wrong but I think what most people mean when they say the launch is problematic is not just the launch itself but how the launch and RMC trains interact with eachother, which has been causing problems since day 1. I may be alone on this, but I am utterly confused on the parks insistence on keeping that launch as I'm sure it's awesome, but with the issues and frustration it has caused I don't see why Dollywood & RMC don't ditch the launch, put a chain lift, reprofile the top of the hill (maybe get rid of the double drop at the top) so it can make it through the course, and call it a freakin' day. I swear with how RMC works after they design the track and plan out the bents, they could have it replaced in a month's time and *boom* the headache is gone.

I don't think a launched lift with all the issues it's been having, is a make or break for anyone visiting the park for the ride.

DirkFunk wrote:It feels like just yesterday that people were saying this ride could be done by opening day 2017. Are those people still around and claiming it'll be open next month?


Dude who are you people and why do you exist and what exactly is the point of your post. It was pretty obvious to anyone not under a rock that the ride wasn't going to open in 2017 due to it not being hyped or announced by the park. Some people screw around just to razz people exactly like you, hell I even joked about 2017 because it was funny. How many more months of "where are all the people that blah blah blah" are we going to have to endure? Move on already. Sheesh.

ZeroGravity55 wrote:...this is their most important project they've ever took on as a company.


Just out of curiosity what makes you say that? Just because the ride is at Cedar Point? I'm not sure where you're getting this idea. I get it there are CP fanboys and this is great that it's being done, but just randomly "claiming" this is their most important project is a bit absurd.

I'd say their most important project was the first ride they ever did, because if that fell flat or had issues who knows if RMC would have blown up like it did.

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Re: Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

Postby Samuel » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:35 pm

DoubleDown wrote:
DirkFunk wrote:It feels like just yesterday that people were saying this ride could be done by opening day 2017. Are those people still around and claiming it'll be open next month?


Dude who are you people and why do you exist and what exactly is the point of your post. It was pretty obvious to anyone not under a rock that the ride wasn't going to open in 2017 due to it not being hyped or announced by the park. Some people screw around just to razz people exactly like you, hell I even joked about 2017 because it was funny. How many more months of "where are all the people that blah blah blah" are we going to have to endure? Move on already. Sheesh.


I'm gonna back DirkFunk here, because it wasn't my imagination that the spirited opening year debate rolled on long after when 2018 should have been obvious. More than a few people were speculating that the whole no-announcement deal could have meant a late summer '17 or Halloweekends soft opening, depending on how construction moved along during the winter. I even remembered seeing a few marketing theories about what Cedar Point is thinking strategy-wise, all designed to keep dimming 2017 hope alive. It's all just funny now that the debate is over and I think we'll all agree this will be worth the wait. DirkFunk's post made me laugh; I'm not sure why you're ripping it to shreds.

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Re: Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

Postby Samuel » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:53 pm

coasterbill wrote:
TBpony414 wrote:
Blatch wrote:That reverse-banked overhead turn looks amazing and utterly ridiculous. It might be the best element on what's looking to be a world-class ride... in a park that already has Maverick and Millennium Force. Consider us hyped. :angel:


I'm curious to see what becomes of Maverick's normally long line with NMS debuting next year. It could go one of two ways: Mav will have no line because everyone is flocking over to NMS... or, NMS has such a long line that people don't want to wait and so they go to Maverick next door which means Mav's line won't really change. Either way, Millennium Force will continue to crank out trains of happy riders. We're getting a freaking kick A$$ RMC next to an amazing Blitz so it's all good! :airtime:


When Gatekeeper opened I felt like that drew a lot of people into a pretty dead section of the park and everything over there started seeing increased wait times because of it. I feel like the exact same thing is going to happen here.


Yeah, Mean streak should only add traffic to the back of the park; the GP tends to understand what the New Hotness is in a debut year. Maverick will also remain hugely popular on its own, not to mention that it can break down several times a day in short intervals, like a pop-up Florida thunderstorm. I've never seen Maverick with a shorter wait than Millennium Force, & MF is supremely popular.

It wouldn't surprise me if Valravn joins Gatekeeper, Magnum, Raptor, Rougarou, & Wicked Twister as pretty good coasters that you can sometimes catch with little-to-no waits, but Maverick will remain a compelling argument for Fast Lane Plus.

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