Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

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Re: Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

Postby ytterbiumanalyst » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:31 am

Sweet! I'm always for improving park food. Honestly it wasn't great when we were there a couple years ago, woth the exception of Panda Express.
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Re: Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

Postby garyman6 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:26 am

coasterbill wrote:
garyman6 wrote:Look at the Mall of America. Why do you think they are constantly adding, adding, adding? New rides, new attractions, new stores, new kiosks, new restaurants, new hotels, new water park! etc., etc., etc!


You understand that malls lease space to other businesses right? "The mall" is not adding most of these things, the businesses that are leasing space from them are and the investments they make in new space are offset by the companies that end up leasing that new space.

Triple 5 DOES operate the amusement park but it's also a pay-per-ride park so adding new rides directly leads to measurable returns. Plus I would argue that Valleyfair is right on par with the mall in terms of new attractions in the decade since they re-branded the park. Delirious, Northern Lights, tons of new slides, antique cars and a 230 foot starflyer are at least comparable with a Chance revolution, upcharge ropes course, a Sky Fly and a Unicoaster.

It's not like Nickelodeon Universe has been breaking the bank on new additions over the last decade while Valleyfair has sat around doing nothing. They're pretty much on the same level and that's probably because they've pretty much cornered the market.


You completely missed my point! I am fully aware and understand how malls work! Of the above list, only rides with in Nick U. are NOT being added by the mall itself. Everything else Is a "Mall" addition. MOA decides who leases with them and who does not. Have you ever seen promotional videos of MOA? They are promoting MOA as being the sum total of everything that the mall has to offer even if they don't own it or run it. The mall gets a percentage of profits on top of rent money for the space so even if Nick U. want's to add another attraction, you bet the mall is going to be all for it because ultimately it will bring in new revenue for the mall itself. So, for example, why is there a new hotel being built at Carowinds on property owned by Cedar? The hotel will be run by an independent company and the hotel operator can decide what amenities or added income sources it would like. Cedar Fair wont profit from that! But Cedar Fair will get lease money for the land, it may get a percentage of profits if that was part of the deal but mostly Cedar Fair and Carowinds will see increased income from guests coming back for a second or third day! Yes, there are other hotels around but none that will have the level of convenience that would come from a hotel on site.

When Triple 5 announced this year that they were close to having a deal with the city to build a new 250,000 square foot indoor water park, hotel and parking complex they also predicted, I believe, that nearly one million people per year would visit that water park. This is "new" guests over and above the 40 million that pass through the doors of MOA every year. They said they have wanted to do this addition for many years and now is the time. Why is that? The mall is doing great! It's because MOA is a destination point and with a new super mega mall in New Jersey set to open next year, also operated by Triple 5, they want MOA to remain a destination point.

Nick U and Valleyfair have been adding attractions at a comparable rate. I personally really like what Valleyfair has been doing. But what they are doing is improving the over all experience of the park. Non of what they have done has seen a surge in attendance because of it. I'm sure if Nick U had the space they would add some pretty major attractions. With 40 million visitors per year passing through MOA, they know it would pay off. And BTW, Nick U is only partially pay per ride, you can get all day wrist bands too!

My whole point in this discussion is sometimes you have to go big to get that huge surge in attendance. I believe Valleyfair has been preparing for this and the "huge" is coming soon. MOA is going huge with adding a massive water park. To adventureland down in Iowa, their "huge" was Monster and now a second coaster in 3 years.

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Re: Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

Postby coasterbill » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:44 am

I'm sorry. I tried but I gave up on that word salad.

Adventureland has nothing to do with anything and I already said that Valleyfair should probably keep expanding the water park so I don't really know what point you're trying to make.

Valleyfair is fine. Every time I make the mistake of coming into this thread and suggesting that it's fine the way it is and doesn't *need* a giant expensive new ride it stirs up a frenzy. They've made some nice additions lately. If Dorney or Michigan's Adventure got that Starflyer or that Larson Loop it would be their best addition in a decade. The Valleyfair fanbase is certainly something else. :lol:

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Re: Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

Postby CoasterAuditor » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:53 am

^These seems to be a running trend with mid-sized regional parks that Six Flags and Cedar Fair don't care to build huge coasters at anymore.
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Re: Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

Postby ytterbiumanalyst » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:04 pm

There's a lot of parks that probably don't need more coasters. A lot of then have 6 or 7 and that's enough to spread out what crowds they do get. Maybe replace an older one when it reaches the end of its usefulness, but otherwise they're taking on additonal operating costs and not getting much back for it.
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Re: Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

Postby Swishtime101 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:11 pm

Mdcastle wrote:Translation: Guests aren't willing to pay the kind of prices we want to get for the junk we're serving now.


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Re: Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

Postby jazma » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:28 am

Actually, Cedar Fair is the franchisee for the Marriott hotel at Carowinds, and will be paying to build it, will operate it, and will reap any profits. It is not a lease agreement with another entity.

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Re: Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

Postby Too Fast For Comfort » Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:18 am

coasterbill wrote:I'm sorry. I tried but I gave up on that word salad.

Adventureland has nothing to do with anything and I already said that Valleyfair should probably keep expanding the water park so I don't really know what point you're trying to make.

Valleyfair is fine. Every time I make the mistake of coming into this thread and suggesting that it's fine the way it is and doesn't *need* a giant expensive new ride it stirs up a frenzy. They've made some nice additions lately. If Dorney or Michigan's Adventure got that Starflyer or that Larson Loop it would be their best addition in a decade. The Valleyfair fanbase is certainly something else. :lol:


I think that you're right from a business perspective. Your reasoning is sound and adds up from a dollars and cents standpoint. And at the end of the day that's all that really matters in the eyes of the people who make decisions -- they're running a business, not a charity. They probably did the analysis and came to the decision that they'll get modest crowds without new rides, but won't get much of an uptick in that area with new rides.

Maybe some of the enthusiasts in this thread just *hope* that VF will shape up and become a more elite park? I went there last year, mostly just to experience it and for the credits along with Nickelodeon Universe -- and while I'm happy to have checked it off my list I'm comfortable with not having to go back there for the next 10 years or so. So I'm not that concerned with what goes on there for the near future. I just hope that they can contribute profitability to the CF chain.

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Re: Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

Postby garyman6 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:13 am

Happy New Year Everyone!.....................I hope I wasn't sounding too excited for 2019 and what it may hold for us. Some that read this thread don't like it when enthusiasm is expressed about the future. Ahem! ;)

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Re: Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

Postby andy232221 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:48 pm

does anyone know when opening day if for the 2019 season is? I can't find it anywhere on the website.

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