Sexual Orientation

[JuanSe_Colombia]

Sorry, So let me explain u better. So this guy and me are like in love with each other ( I think he too) but we're not boyfriends just friends, but I want he to be my boyfriend and I think he think the same. The thing is I'm leaving to USA in late june and I gonna stay there until november. And I don't know if I should like you know be with him I mean boyfriends this month and june before I go or just be friends.

[shepp]

For various reasons, I've taken a really, really long vacation from TPR - I think I haven't posted more than a coupla times in the last year or so - and last time I looked, the astoundingly long-running orientation poll indicated 20% gay men. And now, a year later, the very same 20%, though the number of respondents has grown. Is that consistency, or what? It would be cool to assume that one out of five of coasterguys is gay, but of course, the numbers have a self-selecting bias. Still, interesting that the polling percentage hasn't budged.

[terrancew_hod]

Sorry, So let me explain u better. So this guy and me are like in love with each other ( I think he too) but we're not boyfriends just friends, but I want he to be my boyfriend and I think he think the same. The thing is I'm leaving to USA in late june and I gonna stay there until november. And I don't know if I should like you know be with him I mean boyfriends this month and june before I go or just be friends.

 

I doubt there's any harm in waiting. You both are young so there isn't any rush. That is unless you think you are going to try to meet someone in the states for those few months... is that why you are questioning yourself?

 

Terry

[Bucket]

Sorry, So let me explain u better. So this guy and me are like in love with each other ( I think he too) but we're not boyfriends just friends, but I want he to be my boyfriend and I think he think the same. The thing is I'm leaving to USA in late june and I gonna stay there until november. And I don't know if I should like you know be with him I mean boyfriends this month and june before I go or just be friends.

 

I wouldn't pursue anything until after you came back. Maybe say something to him so that he knows how you feel, but don't make anything official because you never know what will happen in the 5 months that you are in California. The one thing I would advise, is not to jump into a long distance relationship. That's always a bad idea!

[BeemerBoy]

The one thing I would advise, is not to jump into a long distance relationship. That's always a bad idea!

Not always. It depends on the level of maturity and commitment. For your guys age, sure, it's probably not a great idea. However, in general, blanket statements like that are a bad idea too. After we first met, my wife and I continued a long distance relationship for well over a year, and we'll be married 10 years this September.

[DenDen]

For various reasons, I've taken a really, really long vacation from TPR -

 

Yes, we miss you Shepp!

[Bucket]

It depends on the level of maturity and commitment. For your guys age, sure, it's probably not a great idea. However, in general, blanket statements like that are a bad idea too.

 

Generally assuming that younger individuals are incapable of holding a level of maturity and commitment in long distance relationships is not the best thing to say either. I've been in one long distance relationship... perhaps not as long as yourself, but I know the amount of effort it takes on both parties to make it work. Unless a drastic decision is made that effects the relationship (such as moving to the same city, an engagement, or some other type of serious commitment) so that they can be brought closer together, long distance usually don't turn out for the best because people have needs. Every time I was reunited with my ex, it was amazing! But I knew the time that we spent together would be limited and that we would have to say 'goodbye' very soon afterwards. That to me, was the hardest thing to do. It doesn't matter how old or how 'mature' you are... parting with a loved one is hard for anyone and some people just can't handle that. Just my own personal opinion based on my own personal experience. Glad to see you're the exception though! Best of luck to you and your wife!

 

In a bit of unrelated news...

 

Gay marriage will be legalized in California! It's about time!

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/05/15/BAGAVNC5K.DTL

[BeemerBoy]

It depends on the level of maturity and commitment. For your guys age, sure, it's probably not a great idea. However, in general, blanket statements like that are a bad idea too.

 

Generally assuming that younger individuals are incapable of holding a level of maturity and commitment in long distance relationships is not the best thing to say either.

 

Agreed to some extent, but you can't deny I'm not that far off in terms of percentages either. I made that statement with one huge factor taken into consideration. Until you're completely independent from school and family, successful relationships face a huge hurdle. Don't take this the wrong way, but as Terry suggested, I've got many more years on you, and I'd be willing to bet you'll see things in a similar light 14-20 years from now.

[christianscoasters]

Gay marriage will be legalized in California! It's about time!

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/05/15/BAGAVNC5K.DTL

 

Aren't the citizens of California going to have to do a vote or something? Or am I wrong?

[terrancew_hod]

Gay marriage will be legalized in California! It's about time!

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/05/15/BAGAVNC5K.DTL

 

Aren't the citizens of California going to have to do a vote or something? Or am I wrong?

 

No. I believe the people voted the ban into law and the supreme court struck it down. But that just sets the stage for a constitutional amendment, which is silly considering this 4-plus dollar a gallon gas and weak a$$ed dollar situation. Can we actually do something useful first?

 

Besides all my straight friends got divorced after less than 3 years of being together and my gay "married" friends are still together after all these years. Don't quite sound right huh? I say ban divorce if you want to protect marriage. These "Protect Marriage" people won't go for that though.

 

Terry

[Bucket]

Aren't the citizens of California going to have to do a vote or something? Or am I wrong?

 

Read the article.

 

I say ban divorce if you want to protect marriage.

 

I couldn't agree more. [EDIT:] Religious zealots preach their bullsh*t often enough, but we all know their delusional idea of 'protecting marriage' is awfully hypocritical.

[Swimace]

I couldn't agree more. Conservatives preach their bullsh*t often enough, but we all know their delusional idea of 'protecting marriage' is awfully hypocritical.

 

It's amazing how most of the country agrees with that "bullsh*t", being a part of a democracy must be such a pain for so many liberals. I think Florida is about to vote again on Gay marriage (that's where I'm registered to vote), and I would honestly be shocked if it passed.

 

I could personally care less about gay marriage, I think that there are so many more important issues in the country today that it is sort of sad that so many people will choose who they vote for based on that single issue. Most gay people vote for the democrats just because that party caters to the idea of gay marriage. If you look at the overall picture, gay people would be better off voting republican. Statistically speaking, gays have a higher income than the average American, so voting for the party that likes to raise taxes to create government programs that mostly cater to the poor seems like an illogical choice. Aside from the fact that the democrats appeal to lower income voters (aka "not the gays"), Democrats are all about education reform, but most gays don't have children so that's sort of a mute point. Out of all the government programs that the democrats like to create, how many of them are of actual use to your average gay person? Basically, Democrats adopt gay marriage as an issue because your average gay American doesn't have much of a reason to vote for that party otherwise.

 

As for the republican argument against gay marriage. Let's be honest, we all know it's crap. Most of the people who vote against gay marriage do it on a moral/religous basis, but you can't use a religous argument in American politics so they just come up with another reason. They vote the way they do because of their personal beliefs, which is a right that our country is founded on.

 

 

I'm sure I'm going to get jumped on for this post, so let me clarify: I am NOT against gay people in any way. I'm just pointing out the facts the way I see them, and I'm far from a raging conservative (registered democrat here, so don't try the ignorant republican argument). I'm also not the one who calls half of a country's political ideals "bullsh*t", especially when I'm not from that country and can't vote in that country.

[Bucket]

^Oh no, you misunderstood me.

 

What I meant was this...

 

"Conservative" (meaning old-fashioned, narrow-minded, extremely religious...) I didn't mean to associate it with any political party. In Germany, we have more than just two political parties, and most of them are conservative. Normally, when we say 'conservative', we mean "old-fashioned," so I used the word out of context. English is my second language after all so I do tend to make these kinds of mistakes.

[krazekiddd]

It's amazing how most of the country agrees with that "bullsh*t", being a part of a democracy must be such a pain for so many liberals. I think Florida is about to vote again on Gay marriage (that's where I'm registered to vote), and I would honestly be shocked if it passed.

 

Yes we will be voting this November. Thankfully, we were smart enough to pass a law during the last voting cycle (2006 I believe) that says for an amendment to be approved, it requires 60% of the vote now instead of a simple majority. Based on that, I'm sure it won't pass. Then stranger things have happened in this state.

[Swimace]

^^That makes more sense, and I agree with both you and terrence that the argument that a lot of people use against gay marriage is somewhat hypocritical, since a number of the people who argue to protect marriage don't have any room to talk about marriage being holy. Even so, there are TONS of people who vote against gay marriage because they don't believe it's right, and that's their right as voters.

 

 

Yes we will be voting this November. Thankfully, we were smart enough to pass a law during the last voting cycle (2006 I believe) that says for an amendment to be approved, it requires 60% of the vote now instead of a simple majority. Based on that, I'm sure it won't pass. Then stranger things have happened in this state.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I live in South Carolina for most of the year and have out of the loop on what's going on in Florida politics

[QuakerOaties]

^^

 

Swimace, I have to sharply disagree with your comment that it's sad that people will choose who they vote for based on a single issue.

 

As a gay American, I feel completely unrepresented in the political realm. Prominent officials in the Republican party condemn gay marriage and the homosexual lifestyle, and prominent Democrats rarely show their support for gay marriage for fear of losing votes. But the fact that democrats, such as Obama and Clinton, do mention gay people and gay marriage with respect, dignity, and compassion, is an action that reminds me that I have not been forgotten by this countries politicians.

 

You mention the higher income of gays as a reason for gay people to vote Republican. Maybe having the respect of a countries officials and its people, as well as the privilege of being able to openly call your lover your husband or wife and the benefits that marriage brings, are far more important than tax breaks to some people. Gay marriage is not a single, superficial issue. It is being able to celebrate your love openly and with pride, knowing that your relationship is not considered beneath heterosexual relationships. It is for this reason that I don't think it is sad for people to choose a candidate based on their position on gay marriage. However, I do see where you are coming from, and I certainly respect it. I just think people have different priorities and that some are more interested in overlooking their political beliefs so that they can have the hope of eventually marrying, or vice versa.

 

Also, I'm not trying to start a political war in this thread, but your comments are a bit bothersome. Yes, gays have kids far less frequently than straight couples, but this does not mean that gay people will not benefit from things like education and other democratic party efforts of reform and socialization. The idea of education reform is to ultimately strengthen the entire country. Kids and their parents are not the only ones who benefit from a strong education. Education reform will better prepare younger generations to contribute to the global economy, increasing the GDP of the country and keeping us competitive in the global market. America has such a strong individualist sentiment that, although admirable and arguably responsible for a lot of the United States' success , prevents us from considering how changes will affect an entire nation, instead forcing us to wonder how and if changes will directly affect ourselves.

[Swimace]

^First of all, awesome post, and I respect everything you said.

 

^^

But the fact that democrats, such as Obama and Clinton, do mention gay people and gay marriage with respect, dignity, and compassion, is an action that reminds me that I have not been forgotten by this countries politicians.

 

That's my point about gay Americans being better suited as individuals to vote for the Republican party. We're talking about politicians here, they spend millions of dollars trying to get people to vote for them. If all they have to do is act sincere to get a substantial group of voters to vote for them then of course they will do it! They know that the Republican party has a lot to offer gay people, which is why they have clinged to the idea of gay marriage for so long. It's pretty much become ingrained in gay people to vote democrat.

 

Gay marriage is not a single, superficial issue. It is being able to celebrate your love openly and with pride, knowing that your relationship is not considered beneath heterosexual relationships.

 

The way I see it, gay marriage is a single issue, you simply expanded on why that issue is so important to so many people.

 

The idea of education reform is to ultimately strengthen the entire country.

 

Oh I agree completely. I wasn't talking about my personal political views, I was talking about the issues that Democrats are really strong on that don't really have a direct effect on the majority of gays. I agree with most of your last paragraph, I was just pointing out that gays benefit from an individual standpoint under the Republicans. It's like if I was your average gay American standing at the poll saying "which one of these parties will be better for ME", that's where I was coming from.

[RCFreak]

I'm also going to have to disagree with you Swimace.

 

It may seem like just one issue to you, but it's not only gay marriage that a large number of gay people disagree with the Republican party. Also in the way you phrased your post, it made it seem as if all gay people were strictly Democrat or will always vote for the one candidate that says "gays are A-OK *wink*." While I do agree some do, most of my friends will vote for the person who most states their political views most similar to their own regardless of political orientation. I personally do this as well as I think it's important to vote for the least scummy politician, then to just simply vote on your party lol. I will admit that the issue does make a huge factor in who i will choose to vote for in any election or any position, but it's not the only thing that has me voting more Democrat then Republican.

 

I definitely agree with QuakerOaties with people (gay and straight alike) wanting a better education for the younger generations regardless of if they have children or not. And just because they're gay doesn't mean they won't or don't already have children that could benefit from reform to the educational system. I think I'll refrain from mentioning more issues as it is going off topic.

 

One more thing though, there is a actually fairly large organization of gay and lesbian Republicans known as the Log Cabin Republicans that hold more Republican views while still upholding the rallies and cries for gay and lesbian rights. They are present in all 50 states and I'm pretty sure a few of them would take offense to you initial post on the political subject. I know that wasn't your intention, nor am I actually offended (or a Republican for that matter lol) but you may want to be careful how you address a large group of people (especially one as all encompassing as homosexuals) and make some pretty broad generalizations.

[Guest]

Most gay people vote for the democrats just because that party caters to the idea of gay marriage. If you look at the overall picture, gay people would be better off voting republican. Statistically speaking, gays have a higher income than the average American, so voting for the party that likes to raise taxes to create government programs that mostly cater to the poor seems like an illogical choice.

 

I doubt that's the only single reason why gay people vote Democrat. I vote Democrat because I agree with their ideas all around. Not just gay marriage. Republicans spend spend and spend and put us into debt; while Democrats tax and spend. Me along with a lot of other gay people agree on other issues with the Democratic party other than just gay marriage.

[terrancew_hod]

^When I vote for a person, gay issues are the last thing on my mind. I make sure economic issues are taken care of first. If you're in my check and finances, we got a problem. So for the last 8 years, I've had problems.

 

They gotta go.

 

But I remember people were so crazy about "Family Values" and they voted for those hot, unimportant issues and the party slipped in all these laws that put us in our wonderful economic condition today. Oh well, if you're too busy trying to get into everyone else's house to watch your own, someone will slip into yours and mess it up.

 

Besides, I'm looking at these ringless fingers and I'm no closer to getting married as I was eight years ago.

 

Terry

[Swimace]

^YES!!! Rock on!!!

 

It may seem like just one issue to you, but it's not only gay marriage that a large number of gay people disagree with the Republican party. Also in the way you phrased your post, it made it seem as if all gay people were strictly Democrat or will always vote for the one candidate that says "gays are A-OK *wink*." While I do agree some do, most of my friends will vote for the person who most states their political views most similar to their own regardless of political orientation. I personally do this as well as I think it's important to vote for the least scummy politician, then to just simply vote on your party lol. I will admit that the issue does make a huge factor in who i will choose to vote for in any election or any position, but it's not the only thing that has me voting more Democrat then Republican.

I think this has strayed from the point I was trying to prove in my original post. When Bucket called conservative values "bullsh!t", I stood up for the conservative movement to prove that many Republican values are extremely good for gay people. Rather than always making conservatives out to be anti-gay, its worth taking a moment to pause and think about how Republican politics can be really good for serving the self interests of many gay people. Bucket later clarified his statement, and we moved on. I feel that I made some valid points, but now this has become "well that's not how I think". I wasn't saying that's how you or your friends vote, if that's how you read it then you obviously missed the point. I was dealing in the abstract, based on obvious political ideals and how they could be applied to your average gay person.

 

I definitely agree with QuakerOaties with people (gay and straight alike) wanting a better education for the younger generations regardless of if they have children or not. And just because they're gay doesn't mean they won't or don't already have children that could benefit from reform to the educational system. I think I'll refrain from mentioning more issues as it is going off topic.

Yeah, I agreed with him too, which is why I said "Oh I completely agree". I'm not talking about individual beliefs, I was responding to Bucket's post by pointing out strong domestic issues that the democrats run on that have no direct effect on your average gay person. Obviously education reform will have an indirect long term effect on everybody, and plenty of gay people support that, but your average gay person isn't going to start jumping for joy over child tax credits, child care credits, and education savings accounts. That stuff is coming from their tax dollars and won't really pay them back as much as it will future generations. So once again, this was in response to Bucket's post which was later clarified. I'm not talking about MY political ideals or anybody elses on the boards.

 

They are present in all 50 states and I'm pretty sure a few of them would take offense to you initial post on the political subject.

As far as I'm concerned nothing I have said is worthy of being deemed "offensive". I'm talking about core Republican values and relating them to the average gay person. I don't understand, wouldn't a gay republican agree with me rather than offended that I'm backing their argument?

 

 

You're taking a statement that was made in response to Bucket's post and your applying to your life. I made my point, Bucket then understood and clarified his post. Quaker contributed to the discussion with some disagreements he had, which is great, but now it's getting way off of the original intent of my first post.

 

 

I vote Democrat because I agree with their ideas all around.

There might be a problem with your account information, it says your 17. Otherwise, you may be confused on what voting is.

[QuakerOaties]

your average gay person isn't going to start jumping for joy over child tax credits, child care credits, and education savings accounts. That stuff is coming from their tax dollars and won't really pay them back as much as it will future generations.

 

But damnit the average gay person should be! Also, I would argue that these actions would pay back current generations as much as future generations, but I won't take this thread even more off topic.

 

We're talking about politicians here, they spend millions of dollars trying to get people to vote for them. If all they have to do is act sincere to get a substantial group of voters to vote for them then of course they will do it!

 

Although I mostly agree with this statement, I don't think it applies to gay voters. I think openly supporting gay marriage and the 'homosexual lifestyle' actually hurts the democratic party more than it helps them. Gay voters aren't going to swing the election in either direction, and openly supporting gay people can only hurt the democratic party since it is moderate voters that essentially decide each election. Kind of a blanket statement, but it gets my point across.

 

Interesting discussion guys.

[ginzo]

That stuff is coming from their tax dollars and won't really pay them back as much as it will future generations.

 

Sure it will pay them back. I think most adults would rather the youth be in good schools as opposed to out in streets breaking into their car.

[socalMAN123]

Being one of the few conservative republicans on this board, I better keep my mouth shut about this whole issue. I'm not against gay people at all and am a strong believer in accepting everyone regardless of who they are and what they have done. It just bothers me being a strong Christian when gay people try to stereotype all Christians as extremely judgmental, especially when I don't view gay people in a negative light.

This is what is exactly on my mind. Not every Christian views gay people as "demons" like those "religious zealots" you speak of. I am a Christian, and I do not have a problem with gays. Personally, I think it is rather harsh to stereotype all Christians as those people who don't except anyone except for those like them. I also believe in accepting everyone regardless of their choices and what they've done.

---Brent

[DBru]

^I agree 100%. I'm a straight Christian, but have no prejudice against gays.