Waldameer Discussion Thread

[jconsolmagno]

If anyone wants to see how cool their new slide complex looks...

 

[grsupercity]

If anyone wants to see how cool their new slide complex looks...

 

 

Looks good. I really enjoy this little park

[_s3_]

Waldameer trying to troll enthusiasts ("Really Making Changes") with what I assume to be typical offseason retracking work for RFII:

 

[jconsolmagno]

I don't doubt they will get a new coaster (a video from 2014/15 said they were planning on one within 10 years) and would bet it would be a RMC Raptor as there aren't any close (NJ would be closest but that would be a far drive) so maybe this is the start of their campaigning.

 

They cancelled their 2 rides for next year already though so 2022 is the soonest.

[pryonisys]

I saw the Instagram post yesterday, I can appreciate the park trolling people. I'm sure they're just retracking some of RFII but I think whoever runs the Instagram likes to mess with people.

[Canobie Coaster]

Ravine Flyer II was running very smoothly this year outside of the pullout from the first drop. I'm pretty sure they're just retracking it.

 

Although I can't deny it probably would get a little better if it were RMCed, the park would be far smarter spending their money on another top attraction to compliment Ravine Flyer II rather than improving their top bill attraction already.

[grsupercity]

Ravine flyer is already one of the best wooden coasters around. A little retracking and she will be perfect as always. Id like to see something a little different here. A chance or Vekoma coaster would be nice change of pace. An infiniti coaster would also be unique to the area

[pryonisys]

Ravine flyer is already one of the best wooden coasters around. A little retracking and she will be perfect as always. Id like to see something a little different here. A chance or Vekoma coaster would be nice change of pace. An infiniti coaster would also be unique to the area

As a local I would like to see a Chance coaster here, but I think it's unlikely. There seems to be a lot of people who would like them to get an inverting coaster so even though I'd love something like Lightning Run from KK I don't see it happening saddly.

Ravine Flyer is not going to change, there really isn't a reason for it to, it's still running great like you said.

There's a Raptor rumor, but I don't know where that started (so it's honestly probably not a valid rumor) and don't know where they'd put something like that without taking out a lot of their picnic pavilions and I don't think that's their desire.

[Canobie Coaster]

Weren't they testing the waters with inverting rides with Chaos? I remember the ride originally could have had a non-inverting program if the park guests didn't respond well to it. But based on my visits the past two years, Chaos seems quite popular so an inverting coaster of some kind would fill out their coaster lineup quite nicely.

[InsaneCoasterJunkie]

This is my first rodeo on a coaster enthusiast thread but my home park is Waldameer and I own a roller coaster channel called InsaneCoasterJunkie. With that out of the way and while future expansions wait, I'm here to draft some ideas on what could the parks future could consist of. I spent quite some time looking at previous threads and rumors, along with my extensive knowledge of the park, and a bit of personal taste! I will list my sources at the end. Buckle that seat belt, pull down that lap bar, and enjoy your ride on Jay's Wild & Whacky Waldameer Predictions!

 

Part I: The UNfortunate Ride Removals

Me and a lot of people can agree, not all rides last forever. Even at a park as well maintained as Waldameer, eventually, some rides have to bite the dust. Two rides personally come to mind and that's Spider and Mega Vortex. First off Spider, the ride that everyone hates (I know I do). Back in 2018, a major overhaul caused the ride to be shut down for a majority of the season. Two red flags already come up: one, the manufacturer (Evyerly Aircraft) is a defunct company and finding replacement parts is quite difficult, so much so they may need to use other parts from similar rides. Two, the ride (in my opinion) is slowly declining in ridership so it's not a bad idea if Waldameer decides to remove the ride soon. Now onto Mega Vortex. This ride faces a similar problem to Spider with low ridership. In my eyes, it's one of the least popular rides at the park (either being closed or having minimal lines). Low ridership is a main factor to close a ride for good. Another good point to add is that recently, the "Wally Point" value increased from 3 points to 4 points. I think this move was taken to encourage more people to ride but personally, I think it flopped. As for replacements, anything is possible. For the Spider plot, I could see a modern Flying Scooters ride as that has been popular recently and Waldameer is known for classic rides. As for Mega Vortex, I always dreamed of a Larson Super Loop (aka Fireball) coming in the parks lineup as inverting thrill rides are a need.

 

Part II: The Delayed Rides For 2022

Recently, Waldameer announced that no new rides will be added for the 2021 season due to park not making a profit this season due to the pandemic and that the park will need over $1 million in loans to get through the off season. An article revealed that the two new rides will be delayed until 2022 at the earliest. It got me thinking: What were those two rides? Looking at their current 10 year plan, they usually add a major new slide or ride and then a smaller attraction every year. 2021 would had been a "major ride year" (for example 2019 had Chaos and then a smaller attraction) plus the park celebrates it's 125th anniversary so from a logistical standpoint, maybe two rides was an option. The major ride I could see was a Zamperla Endeavour (modern enterprise). This works for a few reasons: 1. Waldameer works with Zamperla so well and has added several rides in the past (Chaos, Balloon Race, etc), 2. They can add this new ride next to Chaos (a previous TPR post revealed that area could be a "full circle" expansion) and make that section of the park more popular with rides while preserving the picnic groves, 3. It provides another thrilling inverting flat ride to the parks lineup. In terms for another attraction, two ideas surface. One could have been a Zamperla family ride of some sort or the water park's Endless River could be expanded by 50% (this was mentioned in a article). After expanding restrooms and hot tubs, the next logical addition would be a "expanded action river" and overhaul it. I told some employees my thinking and they said I have some great ideas but time will tell what the official plans are.

 

Part III: The (Lack Of) Waterfront Expansion: Why It Isn't Happening?

Several years ago, a article and this thread talked bout the park expanding a lakefront property behind Rainbow Gardens that hasn't been used since the Great Depression. Some of the rides talked about was a incline railway, family ride, shoot the chute ride, a restaurant, and picnic areas. In my opinion this is not happening. First off, EROSION! The nearby Presque Isle Sate Park has been having erosion problems on it's beaches and increasing water levels on the lakeshore have posed threats to surrounding houses and the state park itself. An anonymous source told me that the water levels made it up to the lakefront property and has the made the ground level too unstable for any expansion so it's impossible to ex[and downwards. Another reason for this is that we haven't heard about this expansion plan since 2012. Now it's possible they had plans to go through it or the plans were cancelled altogether but the unforeseen circumstances with Lake Erie has put this plot of land next to impossible. As Waldameer is famous for, they know how to work well with space so it's possible to expand elsewhere. Speaking of that...

 

Part IV: South End- The New North End Remastered

As said in part II, the possibility of adding rides south of Chaos is a real possibility but where else could park development be produced? Short answer: the old trailer park near 6th and Peninsula Drive. This has it's pros and cons. For the pros, this can add park space for what the lakefront has lost and makes a good investment to add rides on a previously unadded plot. This can also increase parking spaces and make a entrance/exit on a side of 6th not usually used. However, the cons do make me wanna lose my wristband. For starters this causes problems for the residents living on the property. To evacuate potentially dozens of people to new homes sounds like a legal battle and a half but this has been done before with The Inn At Presque Isle and Choo Choo's. Second, another article shows that that specific plot of land was "in talks" of being acquired. That was several years ago we haven't heard anything since. Anything is possible with space and money but it's something to keep your eyes out for!

 

Part V: Water World Episode 3- Finishing A Gap

We should be aware that Water World has been expanding at a rapid rate since 2015. Even with numerous additions, there is some gaps that need to be addressed. As I said earlier, a expanded Endless River would work well as the park owner in a article has said two things 1. Water World World would be extended all the way to the Ferris Wheel, 2. 50% added capacity to eliminate long lines. The recent addition of Rally Racer proved that old slides can removed for fresh new ones. The obvious answer is the former tad/cookie area as well as the Presque Isle Plunge/Lake Erie Dip water slides. The aforementioned slides (as like the defunct Free Fall/Speed Slides) have a low ridership. Sure the pandemic had a mid-August opening but I saw no lines everytime I went. They aren't as popular as they were in 1986 so I could see those slides out the door. As for new additions, an article revealed some slide ideas such as a 5 man raft slide or a funnel type slide. This would work well for the large capacity and how appealing raft slides are. I also wouldn't be surprised if there was some capsule drop slides added as well (think of this as a speed slide successor). Logically, after Rally Racer, I could see a 5 man raft slide be added and I heard from a digital exclusive, the owner revealed it would feature a wave and be visible from 8th street. Too good to be true? Who knows? Water World is definitely shaping up to be the next Splashin Safari for sure!

 

Part VI: Debunking A Rumor!

Recently, on Waldameer's social media (primarily Instagram), they have been teasing us for a up and coming new roller coaster. In a previous TPR thread, it was said that Ravine Flyer II won't be the only major coaster at the park. So what could top or compete with a elite Gravity Group woodie? My answer is a RMC Raptor. I started this thinking in April 2019 as a coaster in a small space that packs huge thrills (airtime, inversions, etc). Also, Raptors are targeted to small parks where capacity isn't an issue and Waldameer perfectly describes this. Starting around that time, other people heard of my thinking and slowly, Waldameer was hinting at a RMC, writing comments such as "RMCs are cool too" "Ok, anything is possible with space and money" and most recently (this one being the most obvious) "Really Making Changes." That last one sounds very similar to the "Really More Coming" or "Richard Michael Crosby" taglines that Kings Dominion and Cedar Point used respectively. Could that be the hint we've been looking for? Some people were thinking Ravine Flyer II would get the IBOX track but that's a fat NO due to the smoothness and well kept maintenance on the coaster. This RMC would be ground up! Looking at something similar to Railblazer at California's Great America, it fits into a small space that the park can work with and they are very reliable coasters which would keep uptime to a maximum. At this point, the roller coaster community has been sparking rumors for a RMC Raptor for the park and until we know what the next major coaster is, Waldameer will be joining for the ride and teasing us! Just saying, get a RMC Raptor!

 

Part VII: Final Suggestions & Extras

Everything that I said up to this point is all rumor and speculation but I have one more punch to this. What else could a "Optimal Waldameer" need or want? The first obvious choice would be a extended season. In another previous TPR thread, this was a possibility to extend to mid-late September. With the weather Erie usually gets (being a resident myself), the weather is decent enough to do so but one problem remains: STAFFING! Staffing has been a huge issue within the past two or three seasons and a majority of the parks employees are high school/college students. I'm no specialist but if there's a way to fix that, it could happen. Another thing a park should consider: cosmetic improvements to some older rides. The park does great, but more could be added. New LED lights can be added to older rides such as Paratrooper and Tilt-A-Whirl, more variety of food options, and removing old games for new ones could help modernize the park and attract newcomers to the park. Just some food for thought

 

In conclusion, what I said and thought about the park could happen. Now will everything happen? No, plans change all the time and nothing's official until the park announces something but it's always fun to speculate and think of new ideas based on what information we have. Waldameer is an amazing park that I take for granted and I have hopes they can continue their thriving spirit in the future. If you have any suggestions or comments you want to make on my predictions, don't hesitate to! I'm open to feedback to see what you think and maybe put your own "champion of spin" on your Waldameer predictions. Sorry this was rather long but I hope you learned something out of this!

 

Some Sources To Look At From What I Mentioned:

https://www.goerie.com/news/20190217/half-century-of-transformation-at-eries-waldameer

https://www.yourerie.com/digital-first/digital-exclusive/digital-exclusive-owner-of-waldameer-and-water-world-speaks-on-new-racer-water-slide-coming-2020/

http://newsplusnotes.blogspot.com/2012/09/exciting-expansions-in-waldameers-future.html

https://www.yourerie.com/news/local-news/waldameer-park-and-water-world-heavily-impacted-financially-due-to-covid-19-pandemic/

Past TPR Discussions Threads (You might have to look deeply for this)

[JG-77]

That's a lot of interesting insight, thanks for sharing

[Taylor Finn]

-I would say Mega Vortex will likely stick around. You’re not wrong, it’s never hugely busy but it’s not too, too old.

 

-A set of Flyers would be a nice addition.

 

-Ravine Flyer will stay as is for a while, for sure.

 

-Anything they can do to continue to improve the water parks capacity will certainly be good. It’s clearly a huge draw.

 

Welcome to the Forum and thanks for the well thought out post. Was a good read!

[A.J.]

I saw the Instagram post yesterday, I can appreciate the park trolling people. I'm sure they're just retracking some of RFII but I think whoever runs the Instagram likes to mess with people.

Although I can't deny it probably would get a little better if it were RMCed, the park would be far smarter spending their money on another top attraction to compliment Ravine Flyer II rather than improving their top bill attraction already.

They could be pulling a Tremors and just replacing the track itself with Topper Track without changing or re-profiling the layout.

[Canobie Coaster]

I think one of the issues with Mega Vortex is that it's on a dead end with no signature attraction down that way. When the park adds their next big attraction, I'd love if it could be down towards Mega Vortex to help pull more crowds down that way.

[CenturyFlyer]

That was very thoughtful, InsaneCoasterJunkie. I can't wait for the day when when we see Waldameer expanding again. Right now, though, I'll just be happy if they decide to open next year.

[InsaneCoasterJunkie]

I think one of the issues with Mega Vortex is that it's on a dead end with no signature attraction down that way. When the park adds their next big attraction, I'd love if it could be down towards Mega Vortex to help pull more crowds down that way.

 

You make a very good point about this! As Waldameer is my home park, I can see trends that might not be as obvious. With your point, your are right, there is no signature attraction down there. This was also replicated during the 1930s and there was a similar fate. Beyond Mega Vortex is picnic groves and in a non-pandemic world, these picnic groves are busy with people. Mega Vortex is that "standby" ride that people pass upon and may or may not ride. This could be solved with that aforementioned plan that was talked about in 2018 with the announcement of Chaos. Expanding downward and coming full circle (near Pine Hill/Pine Valley Groves). Now this could mean the removal of some picnic groves and tables which would be diminish picnic spots (this happened for the Water World expansion with the removal of Eastern Grove 1). I presented a mockup below (or above) and put a short description each.

 

C: That's the current site of Chaos (Google Earth you need to update). Nothing changes here

Yellow Question Marks: These are possible rides the park could add. Due to the compact nature, it will be a tight squeeze. This is where I predict that Endeavour or if they wanted to be ambitious, add a compact roller coaster down here!

Red X: That's the current railroad crossing for Pine Hill/Valley. I predict that Pine Valley (left grove) would be removed and Pine Hill (right grove) would be intact. The crossing would be unchanged with a new path connecting the "dead ends" together!

White Lines: These would be the pathways used for the expansion

 

Comment down below what you think about this! This is all food for thought and pure speculation!

Mockup of a possible "South End Full Circle" Expansion

[Canobie Coaster]

Any compact coaster down there- Raptor, EuroFighter, Sky Rocket II- would be a major splash for this park and help pull people down that way.

[InsaneCoasterJunkie]

Waldameer posted this interesting picture this morning about a slide that never came to be for their water park Water World. In 1991, a new tower dubbed the "Awesome Tower" debuted with the fitting slide Awesome Twosome. 1992 followed with an additional slide named Midnight Plunge. Those nostalgic fans might remember the slides being colored an aqua green and black respectively. However, when the tower was designed, there was room for a 3rd water slide in the middle of the two existing slides and it was to be named Liquid Lightning. If they continued with their expansion plan, Liquid Lightning would have debuted in 1993 (that's my best guess but it's unknown when it would've opened). For over two decades, there was footers, a sign, and spot in the splash pool that revealed another slide was coming but it never came to be. What happened is anyone's guess but drawing from the post, it was possible it was cancelled sometime after. Talking about the layout, the first half of Liquid Lightning would've started very similarly to Midnight Plunge/Awesome Twosome and halfway through, it would've opend towards a open flume section, similar to the Raging/Wild River water slides with a helix finale before dropping in the existing splash pool. During the 2013-14 off season, Water World received a major overhaul before the massive 2015 expansion with Awesome Twosome being repainted to a multi-color pallet, and Midnight Plunge was repainted to yellow and was renamed to Liquid Lightning, in honor of the cancelled name (which in my opinion I like the new name better than the previous name). In 2014, it was revealed a major multi-year expansion plan would occur for Waldameer's Water World, and a new bowl slide was projected to built in the gapped spot as mentioned earlier. It wasn't until 2018 when the bowl slide would open to guests and it was named Cannonbowl. Personally, I really like the bowl slide (2nd favorite in Water World) but it would had been interesting if the original Liquid Lightning was built and how that could of impacted the water park's expansion plan. This is a unique part of Waldameer's history that was kept secret for years but I never thought there was a cancelled attraction in their ride portfolio. I will be making a video about this in the near future on my YouTube channel but I wanted to post it here first so everyone can marvel over this lost bit of history! I accidently posted this in another forum but it was meant for this forum. Oh well it's here :)

[Canobie Coaster]

Very cool find!  I think the bowl slide they ended up with worked out better for the park.

[WolfBobs]

It's always cool to find these kind of history gems for parks.  

I wish iPhones were a thing when I worked at Geauga Lake.  There was always so many cool concept art hangings in the offices and in the maintenance shops, along with cool old blue prints.  Would've loved to be able to snap some pics and have stuff to post.  

Thanks!

[jconsolmagno]

On 11/12/2020 at 1:37 PM, WolfBobs said:

It's always cool to find these kind of history gems for parks.  

I wish iPhones were a thing when I worked at Geauga Lake.  There was always so many cool concept art hangings in the offices and in the maintenance shops, along with cool old blue prints.  Would've loved to be able to snap some pics and have stuff to post.  

Thanks!

Hopefully those things made it out alive. I heard rumors of the Volcano being built on the Wild Life side in 02/03.

[WolfBobs]

^The Volcano was mentioned in a Plain Dealer article that talked about future plans for SFWoA after the Sea World purchase.  I do not know if there was ever actually any concept art made for it, or if it was just one of those things that people say to the press.  

 

[jconsolmagno]

I just found some old 1991 footage from Waldameer on a VHS tape. Going to throw it up on YouTube later this week.

[jconsolmagno]

I put some 1991 Waldameer ride footage on my channel. Enjoy looking at the park 30 years ago...

Here's a link - 

 

[pryonisys]

All the kid rides look so new and shiny.
Thanks for the look back into the past there, I know the bumper boats weren't the best things (and the big ones just smelled like gas) but they were fun and I occasionally miss them.