Overbanked turns on a Woodie

[Three]

With Voyage and Hades, the Gravity Group has me wondering what's possible with a wooden coaster. Especially with these 90 degree banks.

 

Would it be possible to bank a wooden coaster even further?

 

The main issue I would think would be the weight of the train. It would be pulling the track toward the ground, essentially. But I'm sure that happens to some extent on these 90 degree turns as well, and that hurdle has already been solved.

 

Any reason they couldn't do this?

 

And if not, how far could they go? Heartline rolls even?

 

Just idle musing.

[Stitch]

Anything is possible, look at Son Of Beast ... it loops

[Three]

Yeah, but that's a steel loop. I'm more interested in what's possible with wooden track.

 

Oh, and keep in mind. This thread is about "could" not "should". I'm not sure whether a wooden coaster should do heartline rolls. I just wanna know if it could.

 

But, in theory, overbanked turns could be pretty sweet on a woodie.

[coaster1]

Steel supports with wooden track in the SOB loop, not all steel.

 

Anything is possible really with the right engineering, just a matter of who wants to invest the time and money into doing it right and not half-assed.

[Stitch]

Steel frame, wooden track

Copyright to Coaster Image

[ShoubraStreet74]

It would be pulling the track toward the ground, essentially.

 

I don't see why that's true. As long as the train is experiencing some sort of positive G forces, it will be pushing out on the track, not pulling it down.

[benzo41190]

Im sure it will happen in the future. I mean it might only be like a 95 or 100 degree banked turn, but its still something that can be improved. Look at the Euro Fighters, they only go a little past verticle now, but in the future they might go like 120 or 130 degrees past verticle.

[Three]

Everytime I see pictures of SoB's loop, it looks like all steel to me. I guess I'd have to look at it in person. But regardless, it's built like a steel loop. It's got a steel spine.

 

It would be pulling the track toward the ground, essentially.

 

I don't see why that's true. As long as the train is experiencing some sort of positive G forces, it will be pushing out on the track, not pulling it down.

 

Hmm... thinking on it, you're probably right. I have a hard time picturing these things though.

[Lord Kotowa]

Well i built a overbank on NL and it worked alright, all it needs is just some good engineering, as you have to remember the train will be pulling down on the wood, and it would have to be like SoB's loop and be steel tracked with wooden rails.

[coaster1]

Everytime I see pictures of SoB's loop, it looks like all steel to me. I guess I'd have to look at it in person. But regardless, it's built like a steel loop. It's got a steel spine.

 

And that means it HAS to be a steel loop? The track is wood, plain and simple, just cause there are the hybrid woodies out there (Silver Comet, Twisted Twins, Voyage, etc.) that use steel for structural support, just means that it'll be "stronger" persay and somewhat cheaper than bulking up on wood.

 

I'm sure the loop could of been wood, but that would be a maintenance nightmare, not to metion the cost of the engineering to make it possible.

[BorisTF]

as you have to remember the train will be pulling down on the wood,

The weight of the train would be, but the Centrapetal force of the train would push against the track. As long as you're exerting a force 1G or greater you won't be pulling down on the track.

[WillMontu]

The problem with wooden inversions is the rare event that the train would stall during the inversion, like when Sirocco (Turbine) got stuck in the loop. This would put a fair amount of upward (downward) force on the tracks themselves.

[Three]

Everytime I see pictures of SoB's loop, it looks like all steel to me. I guess I'd have to look at it in person. But regardless, it's built like a steel loop. It's got a steel spine.

 

And that means it HAS to be a steel loop? The track is wood, plain and simple, just cause there are the hybrid woodies out there (Silver Comet, Twisted Twins, Voyage, etc.) that use steel for structural support, just means that it'll be "stronger" persay and somewhat cheaper than bulking up on wood.

 

I'm sure the loop could of been wood, but that would be a maintenance nightmare, not to metion the cost of the engineering to make it possible.

 

It seems I must totally explain what I mean, as nobody seems to know what I'm talking about.

 

Regardless of material used, in my thinking there are two entirely different methods when it comes to making a steel coaster versus a wooden coaster.

 

Sure, there are hybrid woodies with steel structure. But they are still built like traditional wooden coasters. It's not just wooden track on a steel spine -- the entire structure is built with beams of steel and such and it essentiall looks like a wooden coaster built out of steel. And if you didn't have your glasses on and it was dark out, you probably couldn't tell any difference at all.

 

The loop on SoB is different. It doesn't use wooden building techniques. It basically looks like they took a regular old steel loop and threw wood tracks on it. It's not at all built the same way as Hades, Cheatah, etc.

 

I mean, in theory you could take Kumba, rip off the existing tracks and throw wooden tracks on the existing spine and call it a wooden coaster. But that's cheating to say the least. It wouldn't be built like a woodie, it'd be built like Kumba with wood thrown on it.

 

Anyway, the point is, could you take wooden coaster building methods and do an overbanked turn? Or maybe a heartline roll? I don't care if you use steel beams or wood beams. But just throwing wooden tracks on a loop that could just as easily go on a steal coaster doesn't really count if you ask me.

 

Does that make any sense?

[Corkscrewed]

A coaster type is defined by its track only, so it can have steel everything, but as long as the track is made of wood, it's a wooden coaster. Same goes for the opposite (hence why Gemini is a steel coaster technically).

 

 

As far as the methods go, technically is is POSSIBLE, however, I don't see it being feasible, because you'll have to constantly be replacing the wood as the vibrations from such a strong lateral force loosen the nails and wood members over time.

 

You'd probably have to have wood track on braced steel, essentially like in SoB.

 

I suppose if you bolt it really well, that might work too, but then the wood members themselves become the weaker parts, and they might soften or distort over time, which would hurt the track.

[Stitch]

Everytime I see pictures of SoB's loop, it looks like all steel to me. I guess I'd have to look at it in person. But regardless, it's built like a steel loop. It's got a steel spine.

 

Behold, wooden track but it is connected to steel . Cool huh!?

 

I love Son Of Beast

Copyrizzle PKICentral

Copyrizzle PKICentral

Copyrizzle PKICentral

[darklingscribe]

Personally I could see it happening in an underground tunnel. Make the walls very solid with a lot of cement so that the coaster's supports could actually be attached to the ceiling of the tunnel.

[Three]

As far as the methods go, technically is is POSSIBLE, however, I don't see it being feasible, because you'll have to constantly be replacing the wood as the vibrations from such a strong lateral force loosen the nails and wood members over time.

 

I don't really see how an overbank would be much more difficult than a 90 degree bank like on Voyage or Hades.

[apollo210]

Son of Beast's loop looks weird, cool but weird.

[Corkscrewed]

As far as the methods go, technically is is POSSIBLE, however, I don't see it being feasible, because you'll have to constantly be replacing the wood as the vibrations from such a strong lateral force loosen the nails and wood members over time.

 

I don't really see how an overbank would be much more difficult than a 90 degree bank like on Voyage or Hades.

 

I was thinking more of an elevated one, as opposed to one in a tunnel or low to the ground. If you put it in the same situation as the 90 degree turns on Hades or Voyage, than yeah, it'd be easier, but I'm not so sure you'd like the forces on something like that.

[Blue0ctane]

I'm thinking that if support was a problem, you could build it sort of like DD Ice's cobra roll but actually attach it to the building. That'd be pretty sweet, doing an overbanked curve while scaling a wall.

[SLUSHIE]

If the supports on the overbanked turn were to be made out of wood, it waould have to be a pretty large srtucture. Or if they could connect the supports to another part of the structure, say connecting it to the side of the lift hill, then it would be easier so support the turn.

 

I see it happening someday.

[Lord Kotowa]

as you have to remember the train will be pulling down on the wood,

The weight of the train would be, but the Centrapetal force of the train would push against the track. As long as you're exerting a force 1G or greater you won't be pulling down on the track.

 

It also depends on how fast the train is going as well, if its going fast enough then fair play it will have the centrapetal force and push up on the supports, but it would still put a strain on the supports and track either way.

[apollo210]

I think that Gravity Group will make a overbanked turn on a woodie by 2010!

[VegasCoaster]

I'd say a woodie with an overbank could happen earlier than that. Really you could do an overbank with toothpicks if you wanted, its just a matter of feasibility. If you were to make a completely wood overbank it would need a lot of wood, which would get fatigued rather easily, and would need to be replaced often. Personally I don't see the point of making woodies more like steel coasters, they need to just be themselves and stop trying to be steel coasters. Granted in some layouts certain elements might work well, but if there aren't any laterals then its not much of a woodie, which is why I think GG is so good, they incorporate a bit of everything.