Dollywood Discussion Thread

[jarmor]

Let me preface, I love RMC coasters. 

Now,

What was the new territory?  All of their coasters have forces, negative and positive so what is so new about this one?  They had already did wood on wood, steel on wood, steel on steel so what was the new territory they faced with Lightning Rod?

 

If something is not reliable, it has faults.  If it has faults, it's faulty.

fault·y

/ˈfôltē/

Learn to pronounce

adjective

working badly or unreliably because of imperfections.

"a car with faulty brakes"

So, as I was saying. . . Poorly engineered coaster with a faulty launch system.

 

[TEDodd]

19 minutes ago, jarmor said:

Let me preface, I love RMC coasters. 

Now,

What was the new territory? 

You love their rides then claim they are poorly engineered.

The speed and weight of the trains exceeded the stresses modeled. Hence the change from topper track to I-Box in the higher stress areas.

And they have changed the wheels several times (different materials) due to them wearing differently than in other uses.

Something about the ride is (was?) causing it to perform a lot different than expected and different than other coasters RMC designed/built.

I'm an Electrical Engineer, not Mechanical, so I have very limited understanding of the forces and modeling done.  But what I do understand and see with their rides says something is vastly different with LR and they have struggled to figure it out. Not sure they have solved or not, but the track change was a big change to deal with it.

 

19 minutes ago, jarmor said:

If something is not reliable, it has faults.  If it has faults, it's faulty.

So every jet the US military flies is faulty. From the F16 to to F35.
Seriously, go look at the issues the F16 had initially and how much was spent improving it.

They all have high maintenance requirements and generally poor availability rates.

[jarmor]

This is my final comment. . .

Where did I say EVERY RMC is poorly engineered?!?  We are discussing one coaster, Lightning Rod.  I don't know if you are aware but you are giving more and more reasons why this whole project was a clusterphuck from the beginning.  Not sure if you know, but none of what YOU said is normal for a coaster.  If something about THIS one coaster causes it to have far more downtime and have to run on a schedule, then it seems to be some engineering issues.  Not sure if you are an overly dedicated fanboy or what but when you have to take off trains so the ride can work properly then it's an issue.  When you have to retrack virtually the entire ride, and it still isn't working, there's an issue. when you hae to only run it during particular times of the day then there is an issue.

 

And honestly, WTF does a military jet has to do with a roller coaster?!?! Stick to the subject.  I am not going to dollywood for a ride on airforce 1 and the only jet I am interested in riding is Jetstream and Top gun - the jet coaster . . .

[TEDodd]

24 minutes ago, jarmor said:

Where did I say EVERY RMC is poorly engineered?!? 

It's the same people engineering in the same way with the same tools for all RMC coasters.
So if one is poorly done they all are.  Right?

Or are you agreeing that something is different that lead to the usually great engineers to miss something?

 

24 minutes ago, jarmor said:

Not sure if you know, but none of what YOU said is normal for a coaster.  If something about THIS one coaster causes it to have far more downtime and have to run on a schedule, then it seems to be some engineering issues.

That's the point. Something is different. Doesn't mean it's poorly engineered, it means something new is affecting it. Something they have not had to account for in the past. And it seems they are still trying to figure it out.

That's sort of how progress happens. The stuff discovered on LR will influence future coasters and make them better because of the lessons learned. 

As an example I'm sure with the data they have now they could build it with topper track and it be fine. But it was cheaper/easier/faster to switch to I-Box than to redo the structure. They will use that data on the next one though and not have to use I-Box.

 

24 minutes ago, jarmor said:

  Not sure if you are an overly dedicated fanboy or what

I'm just someone that understands engineering and how unknown effects can wreak havoc on an otherwise straight forward design. Where the new one looks virtually identical to previous work and something small and seemingly insignificant causes all sort of unforeseen effects. 

I don't condemn the effort because of that.

And heaven forbid there are multiple issues, whether separate or connected (where item A works great, item B works great, together they don't work well).

Fixing the track issues (and likely the wheel maintenance) doesn't resolve all the other issues.
It doesn't change the cooling of the LSMs or make them work less hard in 95 degree heat.
It doesn't resolve nuisance trips of the sensors causing ride shut downs.
 

24 minutes ago, jarmor said:

And honestly, WTF does a military jet has to do with a roller coaster?!?!

Engineering and problematic systems that take years to resolve (and related to my day job)

And like LR they didn't just abandon the project because of those issues, they kept working on them despite calls from the public to give up.
 

[grsupercity]

Have Intamin install a cable lift and call it a day 

[CaptainUnknown]

^As long as it's like the one on Tornado at Bakken, I'd be fine with that.

[KBrylczyk]

12 hours ago, CaptainUnknown said:

^As long as it's like the one on Tornado at Bakken, I'd be fine with that.

That's actually a chain system.  They were referring to Skyrush's lift that more or less throws the train over the hill.

[TEDodd]

16 hours ago, grsupercity said:

Have Intamin install a cable lift and call it a day 

What would that take though? Where to put the equipment, how to route the cable, etc.
How fast can that run?

It's certainly change the character of the ride.

I just wish the companies involved were more open about the issues.
When it rolls out of the station, hits the first LSMs, and does an E-stop, why?
What triggered the stop? A sensor in a car? A track sensor? LSM issue?
 

[KBrylczyk]

^ Holy hell, guy, it was a joke.

[southpuddle]

50 minutes ago, TEDodd said:

I just wish the companies involved were more open about the issues.
When it rolls out of the station, hits the first LSMs, and does an E-stop, why?
What triggered the stop? A sensor in a car? A track sensor? LSM issue?

Why on earth would they be open to anyone other than the park about the issues? 

[TEDodd]

16 hours ago, KBrylczyk said:

^ Holy hell, guy, it was a joke.

A joke? People have been calling for that sort of change since 2016.

 

 

[megan]

It’s marketed as an RMC coaster at Dollywood. Therefore those two companies are the ones “responsible” in the public eyes. People need to quit giving RMC a pass. However you want to “spin” it as poorly engineered, experimental, similar to a fighter  jet… whatever. It fails as a reliable, decent capacity coaster when it cost millions of dollars. Great… they keep trying to fix the issue. Woo hoo. They failed to deliver, and they should keep trying, but to make like this altruistic “gift” that the just keep at it is idiocy. 

[Doppel Looping]

RMC have been known for refurbishing older coasters that no longer ran well. 
 

Who will RMC the RMC’s?

[CedarFlags]

okay but like... why haven't the LSM stators been replaced by Indrivetec yet?  Seems like these launch system problems could have been fixed years ago.

Also, if heat is a problem... DCA fixed that by adding sprinklers to the launch track on California Screamin 20 freakin years ago.  Idk why that would be so impossible for Lightning Rod.

[TEDodd]

17 hours ago, CedarFlags said:

okay but like... why haven't the LSM stators been replaced by Indrivetec yet?

VM uses DC supplied from a capacitor bank to drive the LSMs. That reduces the AC capacity needed.

 

Others need much higher AC supply to power the system. And getting the needed power to the park/ride was an issue, that's why the VM system was chosen.

 

Hard to find details, but it was discussed a good bit back when LR was being built.

 

17 hours ago, CedarFlags said:

Also, if heat is a problem... DCA fixed that by adding sprinklers to the launch track on California Screamin 20 freakin years ago.  Idk why that would be so impossible for Lightning Rod.

They did that years ago. Go to 0:30 in this video.

https://youtu.be/6FDJBWQnrfs

All that vapor/mist there is water sprayed for cooling. It helped but doesn't seem to be enough.

 

Again, we don't really know where the issue is and only have vague comments and innuendo to go on.  My comments on heat are based on a few comments from ride operators, when they cut back to single train, and other downtime observations.

But nobody has outright said anything was getting hot let alone what was getting hot.

 

I'm hoping when. It cools down in the fall we'll see better operation. That would only be anecdotal, but would add a data point to our attempts to understand the problems.

[DollyWould]

As seen on Facebook earlier today!  Looks like we have our first official attraction teaser for 2023.  

 

 

[tndank]

Sounds like the new coaster is Big Bear. 

[jarmor]

more like expedition - the hunt for big bear

[Nrthwnd]

Grizzly Hunt.

I like that name.

[coasterbill]

Wow, I missed a lot in this thread. That was a fun experience. It’s fun watching so many professional engineers talk shop.

As for the teaser, teaser campaigns aren’t really my thing but I hope the new thing coming to Wildwood Grove is trees because that entire area is absolutely hideous.

[grsupercity]

bear on a tear 

[Chiselphane]

Yogi's Dark Harvest: No More Rangers

[KBrylczyk]

17 hours ago, tndank said:

Sounds like the new coaster is Big Bear. 

This is the only acceptable station song.

 

[mikeykaise]

gotta put it in Dolly speak and say tha Bare!

[Jason Maier]

Has Lightning Rod been more reliable this year in terms of uptime?

edit: I've been to busy with work to really pay attention here if anyone has said anything.