Dollywood Discussion Thread

[teacherkim]

"Lloyd" is the name of the character this park official played as a cameo in the Hallmark Christmas movie "Christmas at Dollywood" To be safe (cause I am not sure of the rules here) I won't name him but it's easy enough for you to figure out who in park management this is and this was at an official Q & A session at Saturday's Smoky Mt Coasterfest, which I attended. He did confirm that sections of the topper track would be replaced by I-box, stated that the launch should now be much more reliable,  and did not discuss the trains at all. I got the impression they firmly believe the track is the issue not the trains. He also said there will be trackwork done on Mystery Mine and indicated that they were looking at replacing the trains so that over the shoulder restraints would not be needed. Which as I am now sitting here with actual bruises on my shoulders from the airtime jamming me up into the shoulder restraints, I am only 5' 1" not sure how much that factors into it, is welcome news.

[teacherkim]

Oh and a total loud Thank you shout out to the very very kind Dollywood staff who helped get my car key back to me (and the very kind anonymous person who turned it in after I was stupid enough to lose it from a zippered pocket ) so that my son and I were not stranded 500 miles from home waiting for someone in St Louis to fedex the spare key to us.

[TEDodd]

 

1 hour ago, teacherkim said:

I won't name him but it's easy enough for you to figure out who in park management this is and this was at an official Q & A session at Saturday's Smoky Mt Coasterfest, which I attended.

 

Then I have a good idea which I'll confirm later.
And if I'm correct, it's interesting he mentioned launch reliability as previously he was quite adamant that the launch was fine.

Was this event under an NDA? If not I think public comments like that would be attributable.

 

[jarmor]

1 hour ago, teacherkim said:

He also said there will be trackwork done on Mystery Mine and indicated that they were looking at replacing the trains so that over the shoulder restraints would not be needed. 

I swear, that would make the ride 10 times better!  I wonder what track work could be done? There is quite a bit of shuffling after the vertical drop.

[dstephe9]

 
 

Then I have a good idea which I'll confirm later.
And if I'm correct, it's interesting he mentioned launch reliability as previously he was quite adamant that the launch was fine.

Was this event under an NDA? If not I think public comments like that would be attributable.
 

If it's who I'm thinking of you are correct, he had mentioned several times the launch was working correctly and smoothly.

However, it's very possible the launch as in the mechanism that performs the launch works great but the launch as a section of the coaster (including the track) was having issu e

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[tinaalsgirl]

4 hours ago, teacherkim said:

He also said there will be trackwork done on Mystery Mine and indicated that they were looking at replacing the trains so that over the shoulder restraints would not be needed. Which as I am now sitting here with actual bruises on my shoulders from the airtime jamming me up into the shoulder restraints, I am only 5' 1" not sure how much that factors into it, is welcome news.

I'm 5'3" and had a REALLY bad time with the shoulder restraints; for me the issue was my head knocking back and forth against them. My 6'something" friend didn't have that issue.

So, yeah, I would love to see MM without shoulder restraints. I wouldn't mind something like the lap bars they have on Dare Devil Dive at Six Flags Over Georgia.

[prozach626]

On 11/14/2020 at 3:10 PM, thrillseeker4552 said:

That sounds about right to me. I can't wait to see hardcore enthusiasts melt down over whether this is still a wooden coaster or not. Grab the popcorn!

Bro. I literally just came to this thread to comment on how there are already arguments breaking out on some of the roller coaster facebook pages.

The ride will still kick ass. I'll take reliability over novelty.

 

  

6 hours ago, teacherkim said:

Oh and a total loud Thank you shout out to the very very kind Dollywood staff who helped get my car key back to me (and the very kind anonymous person who turned it in after I was stupid enough to lose it from a zippered pocket ) so that my son and I were not stranded 500 miles from home waiting for someone in St Louis to fedex the spare key to us.

I mean... Anything to keep me coming back here to St. Louis would be considered a good thing, Kim. But, that's just me.

[Djwadeknox]

Here is “Lloyd” sharing the news. 

 

[TEDodd]

If it's who I'm thinking of you are correct, he had mentioned several times the launch was working correctly and smoothly.

The video just linked confirmed my thought.

And full retrack, not just replacing sections with I-Box. That's a large expense.

And his word choice seems to confirm that the issue was track strength in the more "dynamic" sections.

Maybe we've found the limit of wooden track?


Regarding MM's restraints, at 5'9" they've never bothered me. Not that I'd miss them, just never a problem that they are there.

[WolfBobs]

On 11/14/2020 at 4:10 PM, thrillseeker4552 said:

That sounds about right to me. I can't wait to see hardcore enthusiasts melt down over whether this is still a wooden coaster or not. Grab the popcorn!

Definitely a hybrid hybrid.  Tallest and fastest hybrid hybrid!  

[tndank]

2 hours ago, TEDodd said:

 

Regarding MM's restraints, at 5'9" they've never bothered me. Not that I'd miss them, just never a problem that they are there.

 

Newer gen trains without the OSR would really make this ride 100% better. It's quite rough now.

[TEDodd]

To me it depends on how much I-Box track they end up using.

At the same time, all I-Box could still be a wooden coaster. Just depends on how you define things and I don't think there's a universally accepted one.

The point of I-Box is to mimic the normal wooden track (much like RMC's topper is). The design tends to follow the same rules as wooden track vs tubular steel.

It gets iffy when you get to inversions, and more due to the support methods/structures than the inversion. Could the be done with wood? If not then clearly not a wooden coaster. But if you could build wooden track in it's place I'd not have an issue thinking of it as a woodie.

That where the RMC'd cyclones move into hybrid territory. The inversion as they are couldn't use wood track. Meanwhile New Texas Giant is still, a woodie at heart.

And LR could have a traditional wooden track. Maintenance would just be a nightmare as the wood can't take the forces.

I missed when the pre-fabs were a topic, but I'll bet there was the same arguments about the use of plywood and adhesives instead of 2" pine boards and nails. (Plus the metal used to join sections)

[teacherkim]

20 hours ago, TEDodd said:

 

 

Then I have a good idea which I'll confirm later.
And if I'm correct, it's interesting he mentioned launch reliability as previously he was quite adamant that the launch was fine.

Was this event under an NDA? If not I think public comments like that would be attributable.

 

It was not under an NDA , but he did joke about it and a few of the crowd were gullible enough to think he was serious, lol. He never stated anything he said was confidential, I am sure he was aware the info he gave out would be disseminated on social media

[teacherkim]

14 hours ago, prozach626 said:

Bro. I literally just came to this thread to comment on how there are already arguments breaking out on some of the roller coaster facebook pages.

The ride will still kick ass. I'll take reliability over novelty.

 

  

I mean... Anything to keep me coming back here to St. Louis would be considered a good thing, Kim. But, that's just me.

Lol, I get that a but I do have this annoying job I have to do in order to earn money and my son has this annoying thing to finish called his last year in high school and oh yeah, we left Dad at home, he might notice we didn't come back at some point.

[A.J.]

1 hour ago, TEDodd said:

To me it depends on how much I-Box track they end up using.

At the same time, all I-Box could still be a wooden coaster. Just depends on how you define things and I don't think there's a universally accepted one.

The point of I-Box is to mimic the normal wooden track (much like RMC's topper is). The design tends to follow the same rules as wooden track vs tubular steel.

It gets iffy when you get to inversions, and more due to the support methods/structures than the inversion. Could the be done with wood? If not then clearly not a wooden coaster. But if you could build wooden track in it's place I'd not have an issue thinking of it as a woodie.

That where the RMC'd cyclones move into hybrid territory. The inversion as they are couldn't use wood track. Meanwhile New Texas Giant is still, a woodie at heart.

And LR could have a traditional wooden track. Maintenance would just be a nightmare as the wood can't take the forces.

I missed when the pre-fabs were a topic, but I'll bet there was the same arguments about the use of plywood and adhesives instead of 2" pine boards and nails. (Plus the metal used to join sections)

Any Rocky Mountain coaster with full I-Box is a steel coaster. There is absolutely no argument here.

I-Box coasters are all listed as steel coasters on the TPR Coaster Poll and will remain listed as such. Wildfire at the Kolmarden Zoo and Outlaw Run at Silver Dollar City both have zero-G rolls that are made using the Topper system and they are both wooden coasters.

Intamin prefabricated wooden coasters are just that, wooden coasters. Again, there is no argument here.

Lightning Rod will be listed as wooden for the 2020 poll and will likely not change for 2021 unless the application of I-Box is significant and changes the characteristics of the ride.

[TEDodd]

Any Rocky Mountain coaster with full I-Box is a steel coaster. There is absolutely no argument here.

As I said, I don't find any universally accepted definition. I'll note all the people claiming RMC's Topper makes it not wooden.

And I found old comments about the prefabs saying the composite construction didn't count as "wood."

It's minutiae though.

Unless LR is drastically changed (layout not just track), it'll always be a woodie to me.

[jonskinny12]

2 hours ago, A.J. said:

Lightning Rod will be listed as wooden for the 2020 poll and will likely not change for 2021 unless the application of I-Box is significant and changes the characteristics of the ride.

Does being open count as a characteristic of the ride?

[PKI Jizzman]

Huh, so much talk about the ride being re-tracked. I haven't been on it but why is that the focus? I thought the reliability of the ride was the main issue? Or am I just way out of the loop?

[TEDodd]

Huh, so much talk about the ride being re-tracked. I haven't been on it but why is that the focus? I thought the reliability of the ride was the main issue? Or am I just way out of the loop?

The recent downtime (most of 2020) appears to be related to the track. And we know they did some work last year too.

[PKI Jizzman]

Got it, so restraints are good, trains are good, electrical is good, launch is good, so it's the track + structure. Yikes, sounds like it was tearing itself apart. I recall people pointing out a pothole at the bottom of the first drop. Steel Vengeance gets a structure work year over year, but it's a but surprising since this is a ground up coaster.

What a headache, you can really hear the frustration in the guy's voice. I hope this is what they really need to improve the ride's reliability. It's such a tempting destination park with LR being so highly ranked and thought of.

I'm really yet sure what I'm looking for in terms of reliability to convince me that if I spend the time and money to get down there that I'm confident it'll be open. Sure it's a nice park with other fun rides but I'm paying for the full park experience..

[Invertalon]

10 hours ago, TEDodd said:

And his word choice seems to confirm that the issue was track strength in the more "dynamic" sections.

Maybe we've found the limit of wooden track?
 

Sounds to be like RMC screwed the pooch on it, honestly. If the ride was too 'dynamic' for the topper track, it should never have been an option from RMC on this particular ride. 

They designed the thing, they surely understand the limits of the track, structure, trains, etc... Sounds like some mistakes were made and I'm sure RMC is working with Dollywood to correct said issues. There is no doubt in my mind that Dollywood is getting a nice deal on the rework package to fix the design flaws. 

Hope it does make it more reliable going forward! Kind of the forgotten RMC given it's terrible reliability, since, forever. 

[Ed Farmer]

2 hours ago, PKI Jizzman said:

Huh, so much talk about the ride being re-tracked. I haven't been on it but why is that the focus? I thought the reliability of the ride was the main issue? Or am I just way out of the loop?

I bet the re-track will have some reliable loops.

 

[TEDodd]

Sounds to be like RMC screwed the pooch on it, honestly. If the ride was too 'dynamic' for the topper track, it should never have been an option from RMC on this particular ride. 
They designed the thing, they surely understand the limits of the track, structure, trains, etc... Sounds like some mistakes were made

I'm sure DW had a lot of input, pushing the limits for a record setter.

I'm sure all involved thought it'd be OK. On the edge sure, but OK and the computer simulations agreed. They were wrong. Something wasn't modeled directly, some variable was off, etc.

I'm a test engineer and can't tell you how many times I saw a product work in simulation but not real life. Or the dozens of adjustable parts are included to allow some adjustments without having to remake lots of parts.

We can make better assessments by looking at what changes once done. But my guess is a few elements could be toned down and it be fine. But new track was deemed the best route.

[middle_keeny]

5 hours ago, TEDodd said:

 

 

I'm sure DW had a lot of input, pushing the limits for a record setter.

I'm sure all involved thought it'd be OK. On the edge sure, but OK and the computer simulations agreed. They were wrong. Something wasn't modeled directly, some variable was off, etc.

 

There is a little documentary on YouTube about Lightning Rod. In it, Schilke says that in the bidding process they were competing not just with other wood manufacturers but also steel. RMC was the one who proposed a launched woodie. From what I remember, the only input Dollywood pushed was that there would be no inversions.

[DBru]

Mystery Mine with lap bars would be game-changing. I already love the thing, but taking such a unique, highly themed coaster and giving it restraints that don’t bash your brains out... I’d go ahead and start planning my next trip!

I just hope that wouldn’t mean losing the ridiculous tiny vertical drop off the trestle. That thing is insane.

Oh and Lighting Rod actually working sounds cool, too.