Dollywood Discussion Thread

[STDog]

It is actually "half a coaster".. From what I have read and heard, the tunnel killed the budget and the coaster had to be shortened from the original plans..

 

I'd like to see some more info on that.

 

I'm not familiar with other Arrow loopers, but I know there were a lot of short coasters (by today's standards) in the past. I just figured that was why it was short.

[dstephe9]

I'll see if I can find something "hard" about it.. I had actually read it in this thread originally

 

As far as I officially know, it's mostly rumor but after I had heard it I did ask some folks at the park and they said it was mostly true and was originally planned to be longer.. no idea when the length was cut during the planning process though. Most I had talked to actually made it sound like the cut was made before the ride was even announced and very early in the process so I am not sure you can even call that an official cut or not but I was to young to even remember an announcement for TT. That was way before social networking or anything lol

 

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Edited January 18, 2017 by dstephe9

[I Like Theme Parks.]

The short length of TT keeps it more relentless and consistently great throughout the whole ride. It's probably a good thing that they shortened it. Maybe one more inversion (a dive loop added onto the final loop and Immelmann combo to create a g-force triple-threat would be my choice!!!) and a helix would make it perfect, but an entire "other half" of it would lose its speed and not leave you shocked enough at the end.

[dstephe9]

Yeah, it probably wasn't really cut in half.. probably just another element or something was all that was planned

 

And heck, we may never know! That was way before parks did all this online stuff like give us ride layouts and what not

 

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Edited January 18, 2017 by dstephe9

[chickenbowl]

I think what makes Tennessee Tornado great is the pacing! You're flying all the way into the brakes - And I love that there's only 3 inversions instead of 5+. And I love the unreasonably steep first drop through the mountain. And the airtime... Man, that coaster is just SOLID

[STDog]

but an entire "other half" of it would lose its speed and not leave you shocked enough at the end.

 

If it was planned to be longer, I'm kind of glad it's not.

I've been on plenty of longer rides that weren't as fun or memorable.

 

Compare to rides like the Vekoma Boomerang coasters from the mid 80s.

Same 1:48 ride time but only 47MPH vs the TT's 70MPH.

 

Or other Arrow loopers like Drachen Fire, 1:46 and 60MPH, or Carolina Cyclone, 1:30 and 41MPH,

The original Corkscrew design that was 1:15 and 32MPH. The Double Loop that was 1:30 and 36MPH.

[Shavethewhales]

I'm 99% sure the story about TT being shortened due to the tunnel is off. By the time the tunnel would be experiencing cost overruns, the entire layout would have been engineered and manufactured, so the only savings would be a small decrease in construction hours. Even with that though, you'd have to pay for more engineering to stamp the final design, and engineering is expensive (even more so back then).

 

There may have been another element planned that was axed before the manufacturing/construction phase. I also feel like I heard a story about that at one point, but it is probably just enthusiast fodder. By the time Tennessee Tornado was built, both SDC and DW were pretty popular, profitable parks. SDC was building Buzzsaw and about to plop down $14 million for a new B&M a couple years later. DW was also getting ready for an investment explosion.

 

I'm pretty sure they got the length they wanted. A lot of customers seem to want just enough coaster to entice guests and anything more is just unnecessary expense. Thunderation at SDC, also a custom Arrow, was also built to be pretty short.

[dstephe9]

Well, like I said above, when I talked to a few people at the park that had been there for years, it sounded to me like the element that was removed had possibly been removed before the ride was announced so I believe that might of been the case as well. It was probably axed before the design or manufacturing process if it really was.

 

The reason for the removal might still be due to the tunnel, you never know.. When they started looking into the groundwork they might have seen it was going to cost more than originally thought during the earlier design process

 

Or like you say, it might all be rumor.. back then, it's not like they released designs online like the do now.. it's not like they had YouTube announcements.. Probably just a little in park advertisement, maybe a short spot on the local news, and then billboards closer to it opening

 

It's probably one of those things we will never officially know unless someone involved with the park and helped design the coaster mentions it in a interview or something

 

Interesting to think about though

 

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[LukeFlynn]

According to some ride ops, the Tennessee Tornado was originally supposed to operate alongside the existing Thunder Express and be incorporated in the mountain much more, creating a longer ride. Evidently the mountain is composed of a very tough stone (perhaps limestone?) which the park did not have the budget for at the time to dig into/remove. I'm pretty ignorant on the topic of excavation, so forgive me if that sounds really weird.

 

I'm not sure of the validity of this, but it seems logical to me. DW was a relatively young park at the time in terms of coasters. I don't think they had ever had a custom built coaster (excluding BF) prior to this.

[hagwar]

While we're on TT does anyone know how they measure the height. Is part of the 162 feet include the initial drop and right 180 toward the tunnel or is it measured from the drop into the tunnel.

 

Thanks!

[dstephe9]

It's technically "all dropping" from the lift so good question.. I'd personally imagine it's the drop after the banked turn into the tunnel thats 162 ft but they might be measuring the turn and drop.. not sure

 

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[A.J.]

Based on photos it seems as though Tennessee Tornado's highest point is at the top of the lift (that one's obvious), and the lowest point is between the second vertical loop and the sidewinder. I'd bet the "162 feet" is the total height differential.

[STDog]

That's not how they are normally spec'd. Drop is the longest single, continuous fall.

 

The fake out on TT wouldn't be included because of the curve that interrupts.

[Nrthwnd]

And for today...

 

Happy Birthday Dolly!

 

[awclark]

Ok I probably went a little overboard here, but I ended up finding the original announcement for Tennessee Tornado that had been archived from HERE. Since there's a whole months worth of announcements to scroll through, I've taken the liberty to quote the announcement below. I've also highlighted the areas where there were some discrepancies that could have led to some people being mislead with the announcement... mainly between the ride description and the technical stats.

 

July 2, 1998

 

DOLLYWOOD WILL BUILD A MAJOR ROLLERCOASTER FOR 1999

On April 17, 1999, when Dollywood theme park opens for its l4th season, Dolly will unveil a one-of-a-kind major roller coaster called the Tennessee Tornado. Not only will this coaster take riders through twists and turns, upside down loops, and a double "butterfly" loop in honor of Dolly, the Tennessee Tornado actually goes through the side of the mountain for a ride experience that cannot be found anywhere else in the world.

 

"This Tennessee Tornado at Dollywood is going to thrill all the kids," Dolly said, "and we've added some things to this ride that you won't find anywhere else. This ride has big features and curves, just like me! I made them put an iron 'butterfly' in the design, and I thought that the most exciting thing I could think of for this ride would be to actually take it through the mountain. I promise -- it's going to be a mountain of thrills and fun!"

 

Located just beyond the Craftsman's Valley area of the park at a site literally carved out of the foothills of the Smokies, the Tennessee Tornado captures the majestic beauty of the Smoky Mountains -- at high speed -- while providing thrills upon thrills in a fast moving ride. As you leave the station and head into the Great Smoky Mountains, Dollywood's new coaster will take you on a mountain climb into the treetops unlike any hike you've ever experienced. The coaster climbs to a height of 163 feet above the valley floor for a spectacular view of the mountains' majesty, and then sends riders flying over the summit and heading downward over 125 feet straight through the mountain.

 

After emerging from the mountain tunnel, the Tennessee Tornado immediately turns riders upside-down on a breathtaking vertical 360 degree loop screw, with the top of the loop screw reaching a height of over 11O feet, followed by a series of thrilling twists and turns, including a butterfly pattern in the coaster that features two upside-down loops. The ride concludes with several more loops and turns that showcase the splendid Smoky Mountain scenery like you've never seen it before. When you pull back into the station after riding this mountain of a coaster, you'll truly feel like you've been around and through the Smokies in the whirlwind of a Tennessee Tornado.

 

The technical statistics for the new coaster are 2,682 feet of track, a 137 foot tall lift hill, 128 foot initial drop with a maximum speed of 63 mph. The ride will last 1 minute and 48 seconds and will be built by Arrow Dynamics, Inc., of Clearfield, Utah.

 

Arrow officials say that this new roller coaster at Dollywood is truly the most unique ride they have ever manufactured because of the combination of its drilling loops, twists and turns combined with the fact that this roller coaster actually goes through a mountain. This $8 million ride addition to Dollywood for the 1999 season is the largest single attraction ever added to Dollywood and brings the total investment in the Pigeon Forge entertainment complex to approximately $75 million since its opening in 1986.

 

Also, here's the original concept artwork for TT

 

 

I mean, I can see how it could be a bit misleading, but again, concept artwork back then was very artistically exaggerated and only used as a very loose artists representation as to what the attraction would actually entail and look like. In all though, there probably was a period when the attraction was planned to be longer with more loops and possible tunnels after the "iron butterfly", but it was probably cut early on due to budgetary reasons as the technical stats in the main announcement seem to add up to what the ride is today. [/end mondo coaster research nerd out ]

[dstephe9]

The description does make it sound like it was supposed to have a few more loops after the iron butterfly.. and a few more turns.. as it ended up being built, it basically ends after the butterfly. Unless they consider the "spiral" as more loops but I have always considered that part of the butterfly.

 

But who knows, it's hard to go by description only but the ride vs the description does sound like it was cut down at some time

 

Very interesting! Thanks for finding it.. I was to young to actually pay any attention to the announcement when it happened.. all I remember is seeing the area being cutout for it and saying yay new coaster probably haha

 

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[dstephe9]

According to some ride ops, the Tennessee Tornado was originally supposed to operate alongside the existing Thunder Express and be incorporated in the mountain much more, creating a longer ride. Evidently the mountain is composed of a very tough stone (perhaps limestone?) which the park did not have the budget for at the time to dig into/remove. I'm pretty ignorant on the topic of excavation, so forgive me if that sounds really weird.

 

I'm not sure of the validity of this, but it seems logical to me. DW was a relatively young park at the time in terms of coasters. I don't think they had ever had a custom built coaster (excluding BF) prior to this.

Not 100% sure how true that is considering, if I remember correctly, Thunder Express was removed before TT construction started and TT uses both the same station and maintenance bay as Thunder Express had

 

Unless they decided early in the process that they couldn't afford both and as a cost savings they sold Thunder Express and decided to reuse the station and maintenance bay to save more money

 

Interesting theory though

 

I wish they still had the old Arrow Mine Train though.. I love those rides and always make sure I get several rides on the one at SFOG.. I can always go to Arkansas I guess and ride Thunder Express [emoji14] unless they finally got rid of it

 

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[mordecai-75]

Tennessee Tornado may be short, but really packs a punch. I've always wished it was a little longer as i think that would elevate it's status in the enthusiast community, but i think to myself "at least it's not some standard corkscrew model" and that gives me the peace of mind to appreciate how unique and fantastic this ride is. It was my first major coaster and will always hold a special place in my soul.

[Vonni]

I may be shooting off into la la land here, but if anything was lost on TT layout wise, it was probably just a double corkscrew finale like most arrow loopers have and possibly a helix.

[STDog]

The description does make it sound like it was supposed to have a few more loops after the iron butterfly.. and a few more turns.. as it ended up being built, it basically ends after the butterfly.

 

Yet the speed, time and track length are pretty much what we got.

[dstephe9]

Yeah exactly.. maybe they just "modified" the layout to better fit their budget or to a layout that maybe had less of a tunnel? The description doesn't match the current layout but the other specs do (aside from the speed which is now much faster)

 

Over the years I have seen them advertising three different speeds.. the original 63, then 65, now they advertise 70. (Worded as "nearing" 70 on their site but worded as "70" in park)

 

Edit: Another Theory I just thought of (I say theory because none of us know if any of this is true). What if they did plan to run this along side Thunder Express like another member was told? If so, they probably didn't plan so much space between the station and lift? (Because they wouldn't have used the old thunder express station).. That would probably give enough room (track length) for possibly one more element? Especially with the little bit of extra straight track before the brake run.. Just an interesting thought.

 

Reusing that station probably saved a lot of money but maybe that was never part of their original plans.

 

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[hagwar]

I was the one that asked about the height of the drop up thread, looking at Wikipedia, it show the first drop (excluding fake drop and right 180) as 126 feet. That's pretty amazing it's able to get up to 70 with that short of drop.

 

Only got to ride TT once and it's fantastic, I live in Atlanta and even with the new trains and track work of Ninja/Bluehawk, this is still smoother by a mile IMO.

[viking86]

It would have been very interesting to see what Arrow would have been able to come up with if the company had not gone bankrupt. Tennesse Tornado is such a different ride from anything they had done before, and based on what you people are saying it would have been nice if there had been more rides like this built.

 

On a related note, there is a rather interesting Arrow loopscrew in Kuwait that opened in 1996. The shaping of the track looks a lot more advanced than what Arrow had done before, and it looks like it might actually be a decent ride. It looks almost like a transitional ride between the old classic Arrows and Tennesse Tornado.

 

https://rcdb.com/1603.htm

[BigBad]

I just looked at a POV. It seems to go up a bit after the turn after the lift, so the entire distance shouldn't be called one drop. To hit 70mph would require the train to be going more than 34mph when it hits the apex point before the main drop, and I don't think that it is going 34mph.

 

(My calculation assume no friction, too, so really it has to be going a bit faster than 34!)

 

This wouldn't be the first time I've noticed an inaccuracy about coaster speeds on Wikipedia. Expedition GeForce would require a lift speed over 20mph (faster than I305 and probably faster than Skyrush when friction is considered) to reach the 74.6mph listed on Wikipedia. I don't think this is a Wikipedia issue. I just think numbers get exaggerated.

[STDog]

I was the one that asked about the height of the drop up thread, looking at Wikipedia, it show the first drop (excluding fake drop and right 180) as 126 feet. That's pretty amazing it's able to get up to 70 with that short of drop.

 

RCDB say 128ft drop and still has the original 63MPH.

https://rcdb.com/534.htm

 

Need a speed gun to actually measure. I'd like a similar measurement done for LR, WE, and TH too.

 

Regardless of the actual drop or speed, it still a fun ride.

 

And I don't think there were ever real plans for it to be longer or have more elements.

Maybe in the initial planning more was considered, but by the time they were serious in the engineering it