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Knotts: Potential for Greatness


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However, you won't find the infectious spiel spitting energetic heads working at Silver Bullet ANYWHERE at Magic Mountain.

 

Energetic heads??? Since KBF started their program with the wireless mics, the only time I've really seen energy/enthusiasm/good spieling was Silver Bullet's opening day. All the other times, when it wasn't an obnoxious ride op coming up with his own bad material, it was a lifeless "enjoy your ride."

 

But you know what is something I can't even say has happened to me at SFMM? I haven't been harassed for wearing a USC sweatshirt like I was by the Screamin Swing ride operator trying to sell me on riding the ride. I'd take SFMM operators talking about who has been fired over the mic at Tatsu (which is the worst I have heard over SFMM's PA systems) over that any day. Not that either is really excusable...

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However, you won't find the infectious spiel spitting energetic heads working at Silver Bullet ANYWHERE at Magic Mountain.

 

Energetic heads??? Since KBF started their program with the wireless mics, the only time I've really seen energy/enthusiasm/good spieling was Silver Bullet's opening day. All the other times, when it wasn't an obnoxious ride op coming up with his own bad material, it was a lifeless "enjoy your ride."

 

But you know what is something I can't even say has happened to me at SFMM? I haven't been harassed for wearing a USC sweatshirt like I was by the Screamin Swing ride operator trying to sell me on riding the ride. I'd take SFMM operators talking about who has been fired over the mic at Tatsu (which is the worst I have heard over SFMM's PA systems) over that any day. Not that either is really excusable...

Well, I was at Knott's back in June, and the Silver Bullet op was imitating the Kool-Aid man, joking about unlocking restraints, and having conversations about how this ride compares to Tatsu. The Montezooma's Revenge op was whistling the Mario theme, and yelling fake innaccurate launch countdowns. The Supreme Scream op was yelling at people in a funny way to "get off my tower" when they finished the ride. The Boomerang op said "don't be scared... be terrified! Haaaahahahaha!!"...

 

Now how is that NOT energetic?!

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^^ If that guy is comparing Silver Bullet to Tatsu, he is sorely wrong. You cannot compare an insane and forceful ride to a slow and forceless one. Anywho, I still enjoy Knott's quite a bit with Xcelerator, Perilous Plunge, and Montezuma's Revenge being the saving redeemers of the park. If those weren't there, I would only go to the park if someone forced me to. But, I have yet to have a bad visit at KBF, and I hope I never will.

---Brent

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^^ If that guy is comparing Silver Bullet to Tatsu, he is sorely wrong. You cannot compare an insane and forceful ride to a slow and forceless one. Anywho, I still enjoy Knott's quite a bit with Xcelerator, Perilous Plunge, and Montezuma's Revenge being the saving redeemers of the park. If those weren't there, I would only go to the park if someone forced me to. But, I have yet to have a bad visit at KBF, and I hope I never will.

---Brent

Yeah, he was actually saying things like "Enjoy your ride on Silver Bullet, which is better than that new Tatsu thing!"

 

My friend and I had already ridden Tatsu, so we just looked at each other and started laughing...

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I am going to end up on the "never had a bad day at Knott's" side of all of this. My normal trip down there always ends up being SFMM first Knott's last and after the last trip SFMM made Knott's look like the most well run park out there

 

IMO I think Knott's has it's up days and down days and some of us have been lucky and never been there on a down day and some of us have only been there on down days -

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your just a kbf fanboy

 

And where would they put a hyper?

every time knotts gets a new ride they end up taking out 1 or 2 to install the new one.

 

 

how do you compare sfmm to kbf there two diffrent types of parks

 

kbf-7 coasters and only 3 are alright

 

sfmm-17 coasters only 16 operating and at least 11 of them are up to par

 

~chris-o

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your just a kbf fanboy

 

And where would they put a hyper?

every time knotts gets a new ride they end up taking out 1 or 2 to install the new one.

 

 

how do you compare sfmm to kbf there two diffrent types of parks

 

kbf-7 coasters and only 3 are alright

 

sfmm-17 coasters only 16 operating and at least 11 of them are up to par

 

~chris-o

 

Yest last time I was at Knotts 7 coasters, all seven of them open

 

SFMM 16 coasters - 10 open when we got there THEN 3 broke down and never reopened

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umm ya

I dont know if you have noticed but the only good ride open right now at knotts is sillver bullet.Xcelarter and ghostrider are closed.

 

knotts-5 coasters open

Admission 31$

i would not pay 30$ to ride boomerang

 

sfmm-15 coasters open

Admission 60$

i would pay 60$ for scream,goliath,viper,riddlers revenge,batman, and x when open.

 

lol

 

Chris"more bang for your buck"-o

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As someone who goes to CA about every other year. This past Aug. I had the choice of going to Knotts with one coaster I haven't ridden or go to SFMM with 2 I hadn't ridden. I chose Knotts. Every visit I have had to SFMM was lackluster at best. I don't understand the people who slag Silver Bullet. I thought it was great and had the first geat Cobra roll on any inverted. The overbank before the cobra when you are sitting on the right side in the front seat was sick. Has KBF lost some of its charm over the years, yes but it is still run wayyyyyyyyyy better than SFMM

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I like Knott's better than SFMM as a park albeit I have only been there when it has been deserted and all the rides have been operating so I have had a great time everytime - so I haven't had a problem with operations - I thought Xcel was down on my last visit because it wasn't going up but that was just because there was no one there to ride it.

 

SFMM still has the edge for coasters but Knott's has a lot of quality in what it does have.

 

I think Knott's are two great coasters (an expedition Ge Force quality hyper would be nice) short of making an MM visit unnecessary, and with a little more attention to theming they could make the park much more immersive in the IOA vein.

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your just a kbf fanboy

 

And where would they put a hyper?

every time knotts gets a new ride they end up taking out 1 or 2 to install the new one.

 

 

how do you compare sfmm to kbf there two diffrent types of parks

 

kbf-7 coasters and only 3 are alright

 

sfmm-17 coasters only 16 operating and at least 11 of them are up to par

 

~chris-o

 

Yest last time I was at Knotts 7 coasters, all seven of them open

 

SFMM 16 coasters - 10 open when we got there THEN 3 broke down and never reopened

 

Ha. As much as I'd like to believe you, you're lying. Magic Mountain has never had 6 coasters down at one time. And even by some crazy way you are even right, that's still 10 coasters operating --- compared to Knott's total of 7, half of which may I add, are crap. Catch Knott's on a day when Xcelerator or GhostRider (or even better BOTH, like right now) are not operating. Wow.

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^^How can you possibly make a statement like that? Do you personally review all the operations paperwork for every single operating day at SFMM?

I hate to break this to you...but you're the one that is lying. SFMM has had 6 coasters (more than that actually) down at one time. I saw it happen twice while I worked there due to power outages.

 

Think about it, even without rare occurences like power outages...Flashback is garaunteed to be down, and X/Deja Vu/S:TE are always down. So that's 4 coasters going in with a good chance of being down. Then there is the operating procedures like Ninja not being able to operate when it is under a certain temperature, rides having to close when rain causes overshoots, the staffing issues SFMM has had (which can mean late block checks or early openings)...doesn't seem to far fetched to me.

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Though I'm not an expert on either park by any means (having had only 1 1/2 days at SFMM, and 1 day at Knotts) I will throw my two cents in. Of the two, I enjoyed SFMM MUCH more than I did Knotts. I found Magic Mounatin to be a very nice park, with adequate theming and landscaping, and a fantastic coaster collection. On the other hand, while I didn't really dislike Knotts, I was very underwhelmed by it. Overall, the coasters at SFMM were almost all skewed in the "good to great" direction, where Knotts was in the "average to good" range (keep in mind that Xcelerator and X were both closed on the days I was there).

 

Knotts seemed like two parks in one...one modern thrill ride side, and one older classic side...but the two sides have virtually nothing to do with each other, and don't blend well to make a cohesive park experience. There are teepees sitting directy underneath Silver Bullet. There's a Screamin' Swing plopped down in the middle of the western village. Stuff like that just takes away from the park experience to me. I enjoyed my visit there...especially the Mystery Lodge, which was far and away my favorite thing in the park...but I doubt I will be back any time soon. I'm already planning a trip to SoCal for next fall...I will definitely be planning on a visit to SFMM, and will definitely *not* be planning a return trip to Knotts.

 

-Julie

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Knotts seemed like two parks in one...one modern thrill ride side, and one older classic side...but the two sides have virtually nothing to do with each other, and don't blend well to make a cohesive park experience. There are teepees sitting directy underneath Silver Bullet. There's a Screamin' Swing plopped down in the middle of the western village.

This is a really, really good observation, and I'm glad you noticed this. Many Knott's "first timers" these days don't pick up on this as the park has changed so much over the past 6 or so years. I do think that that the Knott's of today is an "average" park and I do say that if people can manage to catch the park on a dead day, you could have an "ok" time....

 

But imagine a park where the two sides DID blend together well. And the thrill ride side was a bit more cohesive where those areas had a bit more "charm" to them. THAT is the Knott's that I grew up with. And yes, I can accept that parks do change over time, especially if parks change or evolve for the better, but Knott's is just simply not a good example of that.

 

The changes that have occured in the past 6 years seem to me more like a "short term fix" to bring more people into the park and less about a long-term solution that will appese both the park's former "core audience" (families) and a way to attract a new demographic (teens). And instead of creating a better more well-rounded experience for one audience or the other, they've managed to make it so either group has LESS to do now.

 

IMO, Knott's went from being my favorite park in the country (just look up some of those old RRC posts from 2001 or 2002) where I would tell people I prefered it to IOA.

 

Today, it's one of my least favorite parks in the world. Mainly due to the drastic alterations that have been made in the past 5 years that have taken the park from a very charming themed experience, on par with the Busch parks, to a place that, as Julie noticed, doesn't know what it wants to be.

 

On top of that, and this is really the BIGGEST issue for me, has gone from being one of the most family-friendly "no hassle" parks (I used to call it the Knoebel's of the west) to being this place where it is overly frustrating to visit.

 

Gone are the days where you could take a 42" child and a family could ride just about everything together and has become a park where there is little to do for your average 8 or 9 year old outside of Camp Snoopy.

 

Think about it. Back in the mid to late 90s, you could go to the park with a 5 or 6 year old and ride:

Parachute Sky Jump

Wacky Soap Box Racers

Jaguar

Grand Slammer

Wave Swinger

Tea Cups

Dragon Swing

Log Flume

Calico Mine Ride

Haunted Shack

Big Thunder Rapids

Greezed Lightning

Whirlpool

Kingdom of the Dinosaurs

Gasoline Alley

Bumper Cars

More....

 

Today, you can knock about 10 rides off that list either to Cedar Fair raising the height restrictions on so many rides or family rides being ripped out and no attempt to replace it being made. For example Jaguar now has the same height restriction as Ghostrider and Boomerang and the exact same style of ride at Mall of America is still 42". And a much wilder Big Thunder Mountain 10 minutes down the road is 40". Tell me how that makes any sense.

 

Then, combine that with the PAINFULLY slow and horrible operations. I don't EVER remember sitting in a Montezooma's Revenge train waiting 7 to 10 minutes for a dispatch while the two ride ops sit on the phone giggling like school children in the little employee room and discuss breaks while the train full of riders just sits there.

 

And how many times have we arrived at the park at 10am and played the "try to find an open ride" game. It's seriously become a comedy routine to us now on the past 3 or 4 visits we've had (which hasn't been for well over a year now) where we'd get to the park....Ghostrider is closed....Xcelerator is closed....Log Flume is closed....Bullet has a 45 minute line because it's the only big ride open...."Oh well, let's go ride Jaguar...no one is riding it because you have to be like 10 feet tall to get on it now!!!!!"

 

Ever tried to go to the park when it's sprinkling outside? CLOSED! God forbid a 1/2 inch of rain fall on the place. It's like it's nothing big Gremlins or Dan relatives working there and none of them can get wet!

 

Oh, yeah, then there's the fact that they'll put in a decent ride, like Ghostirder, and let it go to hell to the point where it was nearly unrideable the last time I was at the park. And this is the ride that in 2001 I flew out from Baltimore to film the "top ten" TV show because it was my #1 woodie.

 

And remember all those really cool "little" things the park used to have? The fireball on Jaguar's pyramid, the missions as you walk into Fiesta Village, the little devil guy and the volcano, oh, how about the original Berry stand? You know the original building which started the whole park that was bulldozed to make way for Silver Bullet? Sure, I'm not really one for preservation, but that thing was like the size of a closet! There are few of those types of things left, like the beating heart in the graveyard, etc, but most of those "neat" little things about the park that you would just happen to stumble upon are now mostly gone.

 

And there's the crowd, the constant dirt cheap park admission deals bring out a worst clientelle that SFMM lately (at least on my last visits).

 

Anyway, I could go on and on......

 

As for the good things, Xcelerator was still running decent on my last visit, Montezooma's is probably the best of the shuttle loops in America, Supreme Scream is still a good drop tower, the Log Flume and Calico Mine Train are still good fun, and if you like forceless B&Ms, then Bullet is all yours!

 

Like I said, even the Knott's of today can be an "ok" experience if you catch the park on an empty day, and you don't expect much out of it but a confused theme park with a couple of decent rides.

 

But as Julie pointed out, it's a divided park. If you're there with your kids, there's not much to do outside of Camp Snoopy, and if you're there as a local teenager, there's not much to do outside of the recent "big" additions. The two sides just don't work or blend together like they used to. There's now less to do as a family, and not enough to do as a teenager. Instead of making a better park for one group or the other, they've hurt both at the same time. I used to be able to spend a whole day there exploring the park. Today, I don't know many people who stay more than 4 hours and would probably be out of there 90 minutes sooner if it wasn't for the poor operations.

 

Overall, for me, Knott's has gone from being "hassle free" world-class theme park where I could take my kids, and enjoy almost as many attractions with them together as I could Disneyland, to a park where the new owners have raped the place of any charm it once had with operations that make your visit painful at a park that is more for teenagers yet set in a place made for families. It doesn't know what it wants to be or who it's audience is. It's really sad and depressing.

 

Those of you that love it, GREAT! I'm pleased that the park still has it's fans, but for me, it's not a park I plan on visiting very often anymore.

 

--Robb

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For me at least, Knotts was great in the late 80's to early 90's. My trips down to the park always struck a cord with me. It was a different place, yes there were more thrills than Disney, but it wasnt the whole focus. This whole concrete jungle thing they have going on now, isn't doing it for me.

 

Back in May I visited the park for the first time since 1997 and I was dissapointed. Yes there are new thrills, but the charm was missing...it seemed sooo...corporate. I think their most promising venture would be to bring back what charm they had. That mixed with the newer thrilling attractions would be a home run.

 

Oh ya...SFMM does have Chicken Dinners (well they used to), granted they arent served in a sit down full service restaurant, but I think Chicken Plantation in Six Flags Plaza is still good food.

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Oh, yeah, then there's the fact that they'll put in a decent ride, like Ghostirder, and let it go to hell to the point where it was nearly unrideable the last time I was at the park. And this is the ride that in 2001 I flew out from Baltimore to film the "top ten" TV show because it was my #1 woodie.

 

I can attest to that. I may not have your track record Robb, so my wood coaster palette is a bit amateuristic, but God has GhostRider gone to sh*t. I remember riding it back in 1999 and being completely blown away at how crazy the ride was yet completely in awe at how "smooth" it was. I made my first visit to Knott's in over a year about a month ago and rode GhostRider. Probably won't ever go on it again. It was so violent to a point where nothing about the ride was enjoyable. To make a drastic comparison, I rode Psyclone at Magic Mountain about two weeks ago and had less pain inflicted on me than when I rode GhostRider. I actually rode Pysclone twice in a row.

 

And remember all those really cool "little" things the park used to have? The fireball on Jaguar's pyramid, the missions as you walk into Fiesta Village, the little devil guy and the volcano, oh, how about the original Berry stand? You know the original building which started the whole park that was bulldozed to make way for Silver Bullet? Sure, I'm not really one for preservation, but that thing was like the size of a closet! There are few of those types of things left, like the beating heart in the graveyard, etc, but most of those "neat" little things about the park that you would just happen to stumble upon are now mostly gone.

 

Robb, you're making me tear up. Though I grew going to the park only in the early 90's, I can still relate to what you're saying here. Even in the years prior to the park's acquisition by Cedar Fair, there was still that "something" about the park that is no longer there besides what's left in the heart of the Ghost Town area. Even the last effort overseen by the Knott's family, the ill-fated Windjammer, was a work of art in itself --- not counting the ride experience itself. That ride and its surroundings was VERY well executed and very beautiful. It was the last ride with that original Knott's feel I think. Rather than concrete, the midway surrounding the coaster was stamped with a "boarwalk" design; there was a miniature lagoon below the coaster where kids could pilot their own little boats; the ride's on-ride photo booth was built into the side of a scaled-down replica of a yacht. The Boardwalk midway had funky sea-grotto light poles like this. The HUGE and beautiful stretch of well manicured lawn adjacent to Boomerang all the way to HammerHead which is now a bunch of midway games and concrete. THIS was the Knott's I knew and hold on in my memory. Even a sight like THIS isn't around anymore.

 

Today, I don't know many people who stay more than 4 hours and would probably be out of there 90 minutes sooner if it wasn't for the poor operations.

 

That's me. I find myself completely bored with nothing to "explore" (as you described earlier) within a few hours of being in the park. And few hours as in about four or less, which is about on-par with the time I spend everytime I'm at Disney's California Adventure (only been twice), but is now NEVER.

 

Overall, for me, Knott's has gone from being "hassle free" world-class theme park where I could take my kids, and enjoy almost as many attractions with them together as I could Disneyland, to a park where the new owners have raped the place of any charm it once had with operations that make your visit painful at a park that is more for teenagers yet set in a place made for families.

 

Excellent choice in words. Cedar Fair really did rape the park, and now more than ever, it's really showing. Everytime I go to the park, I'm just amazed how much the park has changed, most of which is for the worse. What used to be unique character, personality and distinct flavor is now replaced with generic, bland, and distasteful. I would GLADLY trade the lukewarm Silver Bullet to get THIS back. Silver Bullet - No thanks. Indian Trails is such a joke compared to what it used to be - it should have just been removed completely for its own humility (two teepees and a half-assed totem pole is pretty much all that's left).

 

It doesn't know what it wants to be or who it's audience is. It's really sad and depressing.

 

Amen. It's sad because you can kind of see what's happening. The park as of late is trying very hard to up-the-ante in a way to compete with Magic Mountain to win a bigger slice of the thrillseekers pie, while at the same time continues to market itself to families. And I too, notice this "split" in the personality of the park and what it has to offer.

 

And this is to tug at your heartstrings: Knott's California Marketplace on Grand Ave.

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