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Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

p. 550 - Hallowfest trip report!

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With the backwards Batman news no coming out about SFGAm, does SFStL pull it out too, as was rumored back in the fall?

 

I think they will keep it exclusive at SFGAm for a year and then try it at other parks.

Edited by larrygator
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A few weeks ago I had the amazing opportunity to explore the core of Six Flags STL's Entertainment Department and Operations with a behind the scenes tour. With approval from the HR Department, they a

^   granted, this is a pic I took at Cedar Point. . but yeah. . disagree that "nothing looks more tacky than a broken TV"  LOL

I don't even know how to say this because I just can't even believe it... It is with heavy heart to say that Josh (HWFan) passed away today after a lengthy battle. This young man was such an amazing p

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So is Batman the Backwards going to be at SFGAm or SFGAdv??? I'm a little confused here.

 

SFGAm, I edited my post, my bad. Just wishful thinking on part my when I subconsciously typed my post.

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How long can you sustain a park's existence by giving them worn out reject rides and neglecting the crowd drawing attractions?

 

2013- Used Boomerang coaster

2012- New waterslide/Mr. Freeze Reverse Blast

2011- New Starflyer

2010- No new attraction/general improvements

2009- New waterslide

2008- New GCI wooden coaster

2007- New Gerstlauer spinning coaster

2006- Used Intamin freefall, new kids area (mix of new and used rides)

2005- New waterslide

 

That's six years with a brand new attraction, one year with a mix of new and used, one year with just a used attraction, and another season with no new rides/slides. It's not like they have received used ride after used ride like Six Flags Astroworld did before closing, or how Dorney Park has been getting from CF the past few years.

Of these additions, 3 were in the waterpark. I don't use the waterpark, but I am sure they were good additions. Frankly, I don't think the waterpark has done much to help attendance (at least not for the long term) considering the fact that the parks attendance has been lower after the addition of the water park compared to before it.

 

The American Thunder although a good coaster does not address what the park needs (a signature steel coaster); therefore, wrong addition to the wrong park, I would have preferred having different trains for the Boss over this. The Gerstlauer spinning coaster is a family coaster it has its place. The Intamin freefall has a problem with one of the cars getting stuck on the top. The Excalibur (a used ride added in 2003) has been having problems and is rumored to need work or possible replacement. That is two of our most intense flats added within the last ten years having operating issues. The problem is many of our older flats are getting worn (Highland Fling) and replacing old with old just kicks the can down the road. Also our Starflyer is one of the shortest of its kind and has been having break down issues as well.

 

Concerning Astroworld even in their later years were not exclusively used ride additions. They received a new SLC in 1999 (not a good coaster but by definition it was new and added more to Astroworld than what the American Thunder or Boomerang will for SFSTL) and they received a new S&S Fly Swatter.

 

I am not demanding a new ride every year, but I do ask that if they are going to add a used ride, to add one that functions as well as a new one, one that has the potential to last, and one that addresses what the park needs. In my perspective, the general improvements in 2010 were more valuable than what this addition will be as this will use up our budget to remove the bumper cars, as well as to paint, ship, and install this coaster. Frankly, the announcement of the Batman in Reverse would have been the perfect excuse to perform the paint job on SFSTL's Batman and fix up the queue area for this year.

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http://www.sixflags.com/stLouis/tickets/seasondiningpass.aspx

 

1961190175_ScreenShot2013-01-21at10_56_37PM.jpg.964d2d90d6069e2bb79756a747243892.jpg

A day of thrills makes you hungry!

 

The Six Flags St. Louis Season Dining Pass is back—now with easy on-card redemption. The Season Dining Pass lets you eat lunch and dinner at the park every time you visit for just one upfront payment. Our $69.99 Dining Pass provides meals through September 21. For just $5 more, you can add meals during Fright Fest in October.

 

How Does It Work?

 

Buy one pass that lets you to eat both one lunch and one dinner every time you visit the park. The dining pass is available to Season Pass Holders and is added onto the Season Pass card. Each meal comes with one of several entrees. The program features a wide variety of entrees at restaurants all over the park including chicken sandwiches, cheeseburgers, pulled pork sandwiches, corn dogs, chicken tenders, pizza, nachos, salads, hot dogs, BBQ sandwiches, burritos and more.

 

New for 2013: When you scan your Season Pass ID to enter the park, the meal vouchers for the day are automatically added onto the card. Just present your ID at the restaurant when placing your order and the meal will be deducted from your card — it's that simple!

 

Refillable Souvenir Bottle for $9.99

Season Dining Pass members can purchase a refillable 2013 Souvenir Bottle for just $9.99 — a 30% savings. Enjoy free refills on your first visit and 99¢ refills for the rest of the season. The discount Souvenir Bottle can be purchased at the park when you present your Season Dining Pass on your first visit.

 

Frequently Asked Questions

 

How can I purchase the Season Dining Pass?

There are two ways to purchase the pass—online or at the park. At the park you can purchase dining passes at the ticket booths outside the entry gates or at the Season Pass Processing Center.

 

What do I do after I purchase the Season Dining Pass online?

The first step is to print out the voucher(s) at home. You will receive one voucher for each Season Dining Pass purchased. On your first visit to the park, you will need to go to the Pass Processing Center to process that voucher. If you have already processed your 2013 Season Pass, the Pass Processing Center will add the Dining feature to your Season Pass ID. If you have not processed your 2013 Season Pass, the Pass Processing Center will process your Season Pass and Season Dining Pass at the same time.

 

What do I do after I purchase the Season Dining Pass at the park?

Once you purchase the Season Dining Pass at the park, you will receive a voucher to process at the Pass Processing Center. If you have already processed your 2013 Season Pass, the Pass Processing Center will add the Dining feature to your Season Pass ID. If you have not processed your 2013 Season Pass, the Pass Processing Center will process your Season Pass and Season Dining Pass at the same time.

 

How will the park know I have purchased a Season Dining Pass?

It will be indicated on your 2013 Season Pass ID.

 

How do I redeem my meals?

When you scan your Season Pass ID at the turnstiles to enter the park, your meal vouchers for the day will automatically be added to your Season Pass card. If you arrive before 3:30 p.m., then both a lunch and dinner voucher will be added onto your ID. If you arrive after 3:30 p.m., only a dinner voucher will be added. As you're enjoying the park, you simply stop by one of the participating dining locations and present your Season Pass ID when placing your order for lunch or dinner. The Six Flags Team Member will verify the photo on the Season Pass, ring up your selection and serve your meal which will be automatically deducted from your Season Pass card. If you wish to order any additional items, you'll pay for them at that time.

 

Where can I redeem my Meal Vouchers?

There are several restaurants in the park where the Season Dining Pass is accepted which are listed below.

 

Are there specific times that we are allowed to eat?

The lunch voucher is valid from 11:30 a.m. until 3:30 p.m. and the dinner voucher is valid from 4:30 p.m. until 7:30 p.m., however; shortened park hours may cause meal times to vary.

 

Do the meals include a drink?

The meals do not include a drink. With a Season Dining Pass, you are able to purchase a 2013 Souvenir Bottle for a discounted price of $9.99. Refills are free on your first visit and $.99 each on subsequent visits.

 

Can anyone use my Dining Pass Voucher?

Vouchers are non-transferrable. The dining pass is only available to the Pass Holder shown on the Season Pass ID.

 

Participating Locations

  • 1094 Classic Hot Dogs
  • Character Cafe
  • Colonnades Grill
  • Cowabunga Burger
  • Macho Nacho Burritos
  • Mooseburger Lodge
  • Primo's Pizzeria (3 locations)
  • Villian's Cafe

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I am not demanding a new ride every year.

 

That's good, since SFSTL isn't going to listen to you anyway.

 

...and Corp doesn't listen to SFSTL. They just do the best they can with what Corp gives them each year, and watch as other parks get the Loin's share.

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I am not demanding a new ride every year.

 

That's good, since SFSTL isn't going to listen to you anyway.

 

...and Corp doesn't listen to SFSTL. They just do the best they can with what Corp gives them each year, and watch as other parks get the Loin's share.

 

Do you realize that the SF park's that bring the most revenue in get the most in capital improvements? That is how it works.

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I am not demanding a new ride every year.

 

That's good, since SFSTL isn't going to listen to you anyway.

 

...and Corp doesn't listen to SFSTL. They just do the best they can with what Corp gives them each year, and watch as other parks get the Loin's share.

 

Do you realize that the SF park's that bring the most revenue in get the most in capital improvements? That is how it works.

 

Part of the reason St. Louis might not get that revenue is because of the ride quality though compared to other Six Flags parks. I mean Magic Mountain and Great Adventure have undoubtedly the best coaster selection of the Six Flags chain. Maybe if a park like St. Louis got a coaster of that quality, revenue goes up?

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Maybe if a park like St. Louis got a coaster of that quality, revenue goes up?

 

But that's not how this industry works. The park has to be a proven money maker first to warrant regular expensive capital expenditures. Especially, when the park has no local amusement park competition.

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Maybe if a park like St. Louis got a coaster of that quality, revenue goes up?

 

But that's not how this industry works. The park has to be a proven money maker first to warrant regular expensive capital expenditures. Especially, when the park has no local amusement park competition.

 

Thats true but that said once a park goes down the chances of it ever coming back up are slim. Yes the park has to make the money to get the attractions, but if the park isnt really exciting no one gonna wanna spend the money to go.

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I am not demanding a new ride every year.

 

That's good, since SFSTL isn't going to listen to you anyway.

 

...and Corp doesn't listen to SFSTL. They just do the best they can with what Corp gives them each year, and watch as other parks get the Loin's share.

 

Do you realize that the SF park's that bring the most revenue in get the most in capital improvements? That is how it works.

 

Part of the reason St. Louis might not get that revenue is because of the ride quality though compared to other Six Flags parks. I mean Magic Mountain and Great Adventure have undoubtedly the best coaster selection of the Six Flags chain. Maybe if a park like St. Louis got a coaster of that quality, revenue goes up?

 

Isn't this the exact same mindset that SF in the late 90s-early 2000s had? Build bigger coasters and the park automatically becomes the next Magic Mountain or Great America. It didn't work well for SF then, so there's no reason it would work for SF now. Mid-America received quite a few major investments in the 90s-2000s, but even after those, perhaps attendance didn't really justify adding that many more capital investments in the present.

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Isn't this the exact same mindset that SF in the late 90s-early 2000s had? Build bigger coasters and the park automatically becomes the next Magic Mountain or Great America. It didn't work well for SF then, so there's no reason it would work for SF now. Mid-America received quite a few major investments in the 90s-2000s, but even after those, perhaps attendance didn't really justify adding that many more capital investments in the present.

 

Yes and No... back then SF did way too much, way too fast. They crammed 10 years of park growth into just a few years which is not a solid business strategy. I believe in the theory 'if you build it, they will come'. Why do people drive far distances to go to places like Cedar Point, King's Island, etc? because they have awesome coasters. And by the way all that coaster building that went down then in the late 90's - 2000's... well SFSTL again got the short end of the stick. We got The Boss and were screwed out of a Hyper which ended up in Altanta. You all may debate me on these opinions but I think that's pretty close to the truth. A used Boomerang will not bring attendance up... A massive B&M steel giant would.

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Yes and No... back then SF did way too much, way too fast. They crammed 10 years of park growth into just a few years which is not a solid business strategy. I believe in the theory 'if you build it, they will come'. Why do people drive far distances to go to places like Cedar Point, King's Island, etc? because they have awesome coasters. And by the way all that coaster building that went down then in the late 90's - 2000's... well SFSTL again got the short end of the stick. We got The Boss and were screwed out of a Hyper which ended up in Altanta. You all may debate me on these opinions but I think that's pretty close to the truth. A used Boomerang will not bring attendance up... A massive B&M steel giant would.

 

People drive long distances to CP because of its coasters, yes, but CP is also CF's big flagship park so of course CF is gonna invest capital in said park. Same with parks like Kings Island, Kings Dominion, Knotts, etc. If you compare the additions of the flagship parks like Worlds of Fun, CGA, and Valleyfair, notice the smaller parks don't get as many major investments.

 

And if you really think Mid-America got screwed, let's take a look at SFA, which received their last brand new coaster in 2001 and got a 20 year old B&M to make up for it. They added a few new water slides between that time period, but removed a couple flats and a coaster in between. CGA was in a similar state, except a few of their coasters were removed and a few smaller flats added between their last coaster in 2001 (which was a wild mouse) and 2013 (Gold Strike).

 

Raging Bull ended up in Illinois. Then again, Great America is the most profitable park in the chain, so it makes a bit of sense.

 

- Of all the parks for fanboys to call neglected

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Flashback won't be shipped to St. Louis until early February and the ride (along with almost all of Six Flags new 2013 additions) will not open until at least Memorial day weekend, this is sort of a Six Flags corporate policy to generate more interest about the rides and to force season pass holders to make an extra trip if they want to ride the new rides.

 

All this debate about weather or not this park deserves a large ride or not does not make a lot of since if you look into the past. SFSL has only got 2 million in attendance three times in the parks history (all were when large additions were added) - Screamin' Eagle (1976), Batman (1995) and Hurricane Harbor (1999). Currently, if you live in the middle of Illinois what reason would you choose to go to SFSL over driving to Holiday World or even to SFGAm. and if you live in the middle of Missouri why wouldn't you go to Silver Dollar City or Worlds Of Fun?

 

I'm not convinced that the park necessarily needs a super huge ride, the park really could use about 3 flat rides, a kids only roller coaster is needed (it's the only Six Flags park without one), building anything unique to the area would likely generate more interest the the Boomerang will or already has.

 

I believe that this is the only one of the 10 Six Flags branded U.S. parks that doesn't have at least one roller coaster that cost at least $15 million to install (the highest ever spent on one addition was Hurricane Harbor at $20 million). Back in the 90's this was the only park to not get a Batman Stunt Show (I know Astroworld only got a water stunt show), but instead this park got the much cheaper Robin Hood Stunt Show.

 

I think that the Boomerang will be the oldest ride ever moved within the Six Flags system in the 50+ years it's been around (the only ride I can find that was older was when Greezed Lightnin' when it was moved to SFKK, but the ride was in pieces for 3 years between it's move from SFGAm. to SFOG and for a year between it's move from SFOG to SFKK), so i guess you can debate if it's older or not.

 

This park has now basically now fallen to a level that is basically even with Six Flags America (it shows in the amount that has been spent on new capital in the three years since the new management has taken over). I like to group Six Flags into a 3-2-3-2-3 class of parks. The big three are SFGAm., SFGAdv. & SFMM; then - SFOT & SFOG; then - SFNE, SFFT & SFDK; then - SFSL & SFA; then the "others" - SFM, La Ronde and The Great Escape.

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^^

Funny that SFFT hasn't been following that "sort of" Six Flags corporate policy since Goliath opened 04/18/2008 and Pandemonium opened 03/10/2007. I understand that Sky Screamer opened Memorial Day weekend 2012 at SFFT but the other two attractions were a lot bigger. And SFoT opened NTAG in April didn't they??? I'm sure there are a lot of factors why many of Six Flags attractions open Memorial Day weekend, however I don't think a "sort of" Six Flags policy is one of them. Just saying....

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^^

Funny that SFFT hasn't been following that "sort of" Six Flags corporate policy since Goliath opened 04/18/2008 and Pandemonium opened 03/10/2007. I understand that Sky Screamer opened Memorial Day weekend 2012 at SFFT but the other two attractions were a lot bigger. And SFoT opened NTAG in April didn't they??? I'm sure there are a lot of factors why many of Six Flags attractions open Memorial Day weekend, however I don't think a "sort of" Six Flags policy is one of them. Just saying....

 

I'm talking about Six Flags current management (2011, 2012 and 2013 additions), not the former management of Shapiro who wanted the new additions to be open on opening day. I'm not going to look them all up, but how many SF new additions opened before Memorial Day weekend in 2011 or 2012 (the answer is not very many) and some didn't even open until June, things won't change this year so don't go on opening day and expect to find the new ride open.

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^That's not true. I can't think of any Shapiro attraction that opened for opening day. They all opened Memorial Day weekend. Even the Bizarro transformations, which was essentially just a paint job and some added theming. Same can be said for X2, which IIRC, didn't open until June. Most of the new Thomas Towns opened in June.

 

With new management, GCG at SFNE opened with the park, X-Flight opened the weekend after opening, New Texas Giant opened in April, etc etc. I'm not going to get into the argument, but Six Flags finds that opening new attractions later in the Spring is better for attendance. They get people out to the park in the Spring and tease them with the new attraction.

 

In fact, this corporate policy was actually put into place by Shapiro. Obviously it is working because it makes the guest who came with a general admission ticket upgrade to a season pass so they can return at a later date. Six Flags could open everything up for each parks opening day. They just don't want to. The only people who complain are enthusiasts... If new management found that this strategy didn't work, they would've changed it. Look how many policies were changed under Al Weber and Jim Reid-Anderson.

 

Anyways, this will SURELY piss you off. Boomerang clearly isn't a priority, which I get.While it may sound like I was defending Six Flags above, a June opening for Boomerang is upsetting. I mentioned how GCG opened with SFNE in 2011, SFStL could've been able to open the small coaster for opening day. Or at least a few weeks after opening like SFGAm and SFOT.

 

1933950841_ScreenShot2013-01-25at11_56_47AM.png.de3cedf34021eb79bb40db5873df79cd.png

Taken from the Math and Science Day registration form.

http://www.sixflags.com/stLouis/assets/pdf/2013%20Math%20&%20Science%20Day%20Order%20Form.pdf
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You must remember that for GCG, the foundation was pre-built in 2008 for TDKC and thus SFNE did not have to do any significant foundation prep-work. SFSTL has had to excavate. While not, trying to justify a june opening .... I think Gatekeeper would be a much better example in this case than a cross comparison to SFNE. Even with that example, CP started deconstruction earlier. However, fret not, I'm sure Boomerang will be open before Full Throttle.

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What's done is done. I'll say the same thing I've said since after Mr. Freeze opened: "Better luck next year". (on a good steel coaster coming to us)

 

I think our best bet is getting the Iron Horse treatment for the Boss... I have lost all hope on any custom steel coaster being built for our park - hyper or otherwise. Maybe getting Medusa is still an viable option too... to replace Ninja.

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^ I think that it got hacked and since nobody was really running it, it's likely done for good.

 

While fixing The Boss (cutting down maintenance costs) is a possibility, what point would there be when SDC is already getting the same thing this year?, it would make about as much sense as adding the same roller coasters that WOF already has (which this park has done twice recently).

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