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Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

p. 550 - Hallowfest trip report!

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I never go to the waterpark and have no interest in that, so that's a big bummer for me.

Yeah, pretty disappointing for us. We get to the water park once a season at most. It is too crowded on weekends and I have to take off work to go on a weekday. Maybe a joker clone next year.

 

Good for the water park regulars though!

 

Mike

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We are at the water park a lot, so I would love a water coaster. That's one of my favorite types of rides. I would say a water coaster and the free spin over the next 2 years. Six one, half dozen the other what comes first. Those will have a pretty good ROI and keep them in the news with "new" ride announcements.

 

 

IF there is to be a big new coaster in the future, I'm guessing 2021 on the 50th anniversary will be the best bet.

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A water coaster would be a very smart move now that Holiday World is advertising in St. Louis.

 

 

Don't think it matters b/c SF business strategy is not based on people who travel 200+ miles to parks, SF is about selling season passes at a low cost to people within 50 miles. max 100, that are unlikely to visit other parks.

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Yep. Took a friend's young daughter with us to the SFSTL water park last week to help her out on a day when she needed some last minute daycare. The kid loved it so much I told my friend that we could just hop in the car early one morning and have a day at the water park at Holiday World and she thought I was absolutely insane. Couldn't fathom that I would consider a 6 hour round trip drive for a water park, or any amusement park. Most of the GP just doesn't even consider that an option.

 

Several people I know were equally mystified that we made a stop in LA on the way to Hawaii just to go to SFMM. SF has to market to their base, so to speak, especially in this area.

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I never go to the waterpark and have no interest in that, so that's a big bummer for me.

 

 

I rarely go to the water park as well, but I would if we got a water coaster.

I'm kind of with you on this, Vonni. I still think I would rather have something for the dry side, though.

 

I'm trying to stay positive about this, but if you think about it, it's kind of depressing most of us are crossing our fingers for a free spin. We once hoped for the possibility of a hyper. Then, we hoped for the possibility of a half version RMC conversion of the Boss. After that, we hoped for a used modern steel roller coaster. Finally, we're hoping for a S&S free spin. I'm seeing a depressing trend.

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A water coaster would be a very smart move now that Holiday World is advertising in St. Louis.

 

 

Don't think it matters b/c SF business strategy is not based on people who travel 200+ miles to parks, SF is about selling season passes at a low cost to people within 50 miles. max 100, that are unlikely to visit other parks.

That's a fair point, but I would argue that Holiday World is actively trying to get people who wouldn't travel to a theme park to do exactly that and travel to Holiday World. Wildebeest and Mammoth are big selling points for HW, and Six Flags having one could counter some of HW's efforts to wedge into the St. Louis market.

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I think holiday world inroads and advertising in this area (ST LOUIS) is not directed against Six Flags but rather SDC -

Think about it, HW is trying to get the "Branson longer distance vacationers" certainly not the day trippers who might go to Six Flags.

Sure there will be some spill over either way but SFSL is less of a competitor to HW than SDC is in Branson.

 

I think they are looking for that bigger family vacation dollar from those that might consider Branson each year - travel time either way is pretty close and costs must be competitive.

 

I am sure SDC advertises in other cities farther away too. The nearest big city to STL is KC or Memphis and I bet you can find a Six Flags SL billboard in those city's - Bill boards are pretty cheap overall.

 

Kevin

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Don't think it matters b/c SF business strategy is not based on people who travel 200+ miles to parks, SF is about selling season passes at a low cost to people within 50 miles. max 100, that are unlikely to visit other parks.

 

Was their strategy. Remember the last stockholder call?

 

They market the usage of the passes at alternate parks when the market can use it - Great America advertises that the passes are good at St. Louis and I'm sure the same is done in reverse. Magic Mountain's site mentions entry to Discovery Kingdom too. In those cases then yes, having a largely uniform product doesn't help. But they're all different enough at this point still that I don't think anyone is gonna get offended.

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You won't find jack shit for Six Flags billboards in Memphis. You'll find Holiday World billboards in Nashville, however.

 

Source: I'm a St. Louis native who moved to Memphis six years ago.

 

And to call Memphis the closest city is stretching it when KC is 50 mins closer and Chicago is only an additional 10 mins further than Memphis.

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You won't find jack shit for Six Flags billboards in Memphis. You'll find Holiday World billboards in Nashville, however.

 

Source: I'm a St. Louis native who moved to Memphis six years ago.

 

And to call Memphis the closest city is stretching it when KC is 50 mins closer and Chicago is only an additional 10 mins further than Memphis.

 

 

well I wasn't going to include Chicago area because if your home park is Great America - would you travel to SFSL or Holiday World if you could only pick one?

 

I presumed KC and Worlds of Fun was comparable to SFSL in population draw even with the smaller regional population

my point was I don't feel like HW is hitting on SFSL market exclusively.

 

Kevin

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I never go to the waterpark and have no interest in that, so that's a big bummer for me.

 

 

I rarely go to the water park as well, but I would if we got a water coaster.

I'm kind of with you on this, Vonni. I still think I would rather have something for the dry side, though.

 

I'm trying to stay positive about this, but if you think about it, it's kind of depressing most of us are crossing our fingers for a free spin. We once hoped for the possibility of a hyper. Then, we hoped for the possibility of a half version RMC conversion of the Boss. After that, we hoped for a used modern steel roller coaster. Finally, we're hoping for a S&S free spin. I'm seeing a depressing trend.

 

 

Oh I completely agree. I guess I've just brought myself to a more logical outlook. My heart still aches for an awesome B&M hyper. But I know that ship has, at least most likely, sailed.

 

I don't really know why, but I kind of would prefer a water coaster over an S&S free spin. I guess, even as a clone, a water coaster would be a bit more unique. But, if we get a free spin, I'll be excited to try it, and hoping it doesn't make me sick lol!

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I never go to the waterpark and have no interest in that, so that's a big bummer for me.

 

 

I rarely go to the water park as well, but I would if we got a water coaster.

I'm kind of with you on this, Vonni. I still think I would rather have something for the dry side, though.

 

I'm trying to stay positive about this, but if you think about it, it's kind of depressing most of us are crossing our fingers for a free spin. We once hoped for the possibility of a hyper. Then, we hoped for the possibility of a half version RMC conversion of the Boss. After that, we hoped for a used modern steel roller coaster. Finally, we're hoping for a S&S free spin. I'm seeing a depressing trend.

 

Although you are right everyones hopes are down from not receiving the large investments we all dreamed of, but we just have to accept reality that upper management views SFSTL as one of the worst parks. Therefore we wouldn't get any crazy large attractions. The reason I am sad is due to the fact that I think STL has potential, yet all we get is used rides or clones. IMO we are just a worse off SF America.

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You won't find jack shit for Six Flags billboards in Memphis. You'll find Holiday World billboards in Nashville, however.

 

Source: I'm a St. Louis native who moved to Memphis six years ago.

 

And to call Memphis the closest city is stretching it when KC is 50 mins closer and Chicago is only an additional 10 mins further than Memphis.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Thisis right here^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

You wouldn't know Six Flags St. Louis existed in Memphis unless you just knew. Considering the amount of Cardinal fans in Memphis that make the trek to see ballgames(Memphis also home to one of Minor League Baseball's best stadiums and Cardinal Triple A club). They don't advertise one bit in Memphis.

 

It's six one way and a half dozen the other for Memphians between SFST and Silver Dollar City and then Dolly wood the other. Holiday World hasn't pushed itself in Memphis but if I-69 ever got completely between Memphis the Kentucky Line I could sure see it.

 

That brings me to Six Flags and their growth. Here we have Memphis and it's MSA of 1.35 million. That doesn't include areas like Jackson TN, Tupelo MS, Jonesboro/Paragould AR which pushes it to around mil. Then you have Little Rock at 2hrs away and then there's Jackson MS.

 

Anywho, not one commercial water park in Memphis. Not saying they need to build a theme park but a Hurricane Harbor Water Park seems to me like a no brainer. Buy enough land that if the water park is hugely successful, add a the park later. In fact, Memphis would be a place to build an Outdoor with Hotel/indoor water park combo for a year round operation.

 

I'm shocked that Memphis doesn't really even have a Fun Spot type park (Fun Spot are you reading). Since Liberty land and it's poor management t by gov't entities shutdown, there's a huge void. Not even Nashville has anything that replace the niches that Liberty land and Opryland filled.

 

Memphis keeps coming up with grandiose ideas on how to reinvent it's Mud Island Park. Right now, the answer is a Tivoli Park like approach. Free admission, tickets to ride or a wristband for unlimited rides. A collection of rides meant for small spaces on part of the Island. A 250ft. Wheel, a 300ft+ Star Flyer, a old school carousel building that actually hold about a half dozen kiddie rides with the carousel as the center complete with birthday rooms. A small scale, compact woodie . And...a couple of compact steel coasters and 4 to 5 flats from mild to wild. With a couple covered but open air. All would have the same color scheme lime green with gold scroll work that would have a late 1800's ironwork feel. The queue's simple but elegant, iron fencing with plenty of Landscaping and shade trees. The rides would have an amazing led package to light the place up. It would be on the Mississippi River and between two major interstate bridges that cross the country north to south and east to west. Also, a so ring type ride feature the entire length of the Mississippi River addition to the River Museum would be swell along with a decent aquarium tied to the outstanding Memphis Zoo. To compliment the neat river walk with it's scale model of the river.

 

 

 

Anyway, back to Six Flags, build a water park in the Memphis area, sell the gold passes to push folks to StL, ATL and Dallas as well while capturing some Little Rock AR and Jackson MS market share as well.

 

Also, look at booming Northwest Arkansas for a stand alone water park, pushing the same concept to Dallas and STL while capturing some Tulsa market share as well.

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we just have to accept reality that upper management views SFSTL as one of the worst parks.

 

Sorry I don't believe that. SFSTL has gotten much attention lately, the park is not forgotten. Justice League is proof of that.

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well I wasn't going to include Chicago area because if your home park is Great America - would you travel to SFSL or Holiday World if you could only pick one?

I would pick SFSTL. I only really like Thunderbird at Holiday World. I used to like Raven a little, but I've heard its gotten very rough. Wildebeast is really fun, but I didn't find mammoth enjoyable at all with its endless disorienting splashes in the face. I felt like I was being water boarded. The only other ride we really enjoy is Gobbler Getaway. On top of all that, the free soda is a wash, since I only drink one coke or pepsi a month as a treat, which is usually a park day. Their flume is OK from what I can remember, I guess. Free sun screen doesn't draw me in, because I don't really care for water parks much anymore after working with so many disgusting members of the public. The atmosphere is OK, but the park's holier than though social media advertising is annoying to me. To top it all off, everyone has jumped on the HW bandwagon. I'm somewhat socially defiant in that whenever everyone starts to love or rave about something it totally turns me off. I didn't even mention the fact that HW doesn't serve beer or that the nearest decent hotel is 20 minutes away in a different time zone. I also rarely eat park food, so the cheap prices and above average mediocre meals do nothing for me.

 

In contrast, SFSTL has three coasters I consider very fun, one of which may surpass Thunderbird: Batman (best), American Thunder, and Mr. Freeze. The next level enjoyable coasters for me are Screaming Eagle, Mine Train, and Spinner (name? lol). Non coaster rides we find fun are the Log Flume, Sky Screamer (awesome!),the train, and Justice League. If we feel like doing something low-key we can hop on the Carousel, the Ferris Wheel, or the lame ass cars for a laugh. All of this while taking time breaks to sit at JB's to have a cold beer, or the more relaxing patio on the side of the chicken place. The general upkeep over our five years off has made this park so much more of an enjoyable place to be. I don't regret taking any time off, as it's made us much more appreciative. Did I mention this park is fifty minutes from our house?

 

I can see why so many people would choose Holiday World, but I can't help but to think that decision might be influenced partially by SFSTL's availability making it seem less special. Yuengling is one of my favorite beers, but I often wonder if I would like it as much if it were available here all the time.

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Although you are right everyones hopes are down from not receiving the large investments we all dreamed of, but we just have to accept reality that upper management views SFSTL as one of the worst parks.

I disagree. If upper management viewed us as the worst, they would try to make more drastic improvements to increase the value for the park and company as a whole. Perhaps we're viewed as less important than parks like Great America of Magic Mountain, but I would be more inclined to believe our park is viewed as being well put together for its size, as it needs less to keep it relevant.

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It is pretty crazy how much Holiday World has been pushing into the market this year with their advertising. Billboards everywhere and lots of radio ads. Looking forward to making my first trip there this fall, actually!

 

As for the water coaster, seems to me that with the park now being open through the new year thanks to Holiday in the Park, there'd be a lot more mileage out of a Freespin, assuming it runs in colder temperatures. That cool new water coaster will only run what, 3 months out of a 9 month operating year?

 

Holiday in the Park is great, but with Boss, Eagle and a few other attractions closing down for maintenance it sure would be nice to have another big draw. And yes, I'm counting a freespin as a big draw. Maybe not for coaster nuts, but it would be a big thing for the GP I think.

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Although you are right everyones hopes are down from not receiving the large investments we all dreamed of, but we just have to accept reality that upper management views SFSTL as one of the worst parks.

I disagree. If upper management viewed us as the worst, they would try to make more drastic improvements to increase the value for the park and company as a whole. Perhaps we're viewed as less important than parks like Great America of Magic Mountain, but I would be more inclined to believe our park is viewed as being well put together for its size, as it needs less to keep it relevant.

 

Stl may not be viewed as the worst by corporate, but it's clearly in the bottom 1/4 with La Ronde, Escape, SFA. The parks SF neglects seem to be ones viewed as places where bigger investments will not produce a good ROI.

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I don't believe SF has 'best parks' and 'worst parks' on their corporate outline. The park is solid for it's surroundings now, but as you said there's no real return on investment for a large scale project. If a new mid size coaster ever hits our skyline, it will likely be when another one is replaced.

 

Man, prozach626 sure has come a long way!!!!!

haha

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I don't believe SF has 'best parks' and 'worst parks' on their corporate outline.

 

I think most would disagree, there are better/favored parks and worse/neglected parks Places like Escape. SFA. La Ronde not only do not get big investments b/c lack of perceived ROI, but they also are maintained worse than other parks IMO. They don't even really seem to try to keep what they have at least "spit shined and polished".

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I don't believe SF has 'best parks' and 'worst parks' on their corporate outline.

 

I think most would disagree, there are better/favored parks and worse/neglected parks Places like Escape. SFA. La Ronde not only do not get big investments b/c lack of perceived ROI, but they also are maintained worse than other parks IMO. They don't even really seem to try to keep what they have at least "spit shined and polished".

 

This is something STL does really well though. Unlike other lower tier parks they keep the park very clean and have a overall good atmosphere.

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