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Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread


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I love Batman, it's always a must-ride, I just wish that it would go into a refurbishment so they can put the Batmobile back in Batman Plaza and add all of the fog effects/sound effects, etc back in so it'd be like it was when it first opened. It'd be such a cooler experience.

Edited by ChrisGraslie
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And will people please let the whole Goliath was for St Louis thing go?? Is there any proof other than speculation that this was supposed to happen?? When I visited SFOG, Goliath looks like it was tailor made for OG. It weaves in and out of the park etc;

 

Of course Goliath's layout was designed for specifically for SFoG, that's common sense. In 2004, SF Corporate had plans drawn up for SFSTL's own layout of Goliath at that park. As plans were moving forward, corporate last minute in 2004 had plans drawn up for SFoG Goliath concept as well and went that route...

 

On to other news, hiring is still ongoing, positions to be filled, departments always looking for help. Its never too late to apply, so if you or anyone you know wants some extra cash working 40+ hours a week or even part time, apply today. Park is looking good and with a few trees already blooming, its starting to feel like the park is ready to go. Spinsanity is looking good and moving quickly.

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And will people please let the whole Goliath was for St Louis thing go?? Is there any proof other than speculation that this was supposed to happen?? When I visited SFOG, Goliath looks like it was tailor made for OG. It weaves in and out of the park etc;

 

Of course Goliath's layout was designed for specifically for SFoG, that's common sense. In 2004, SF Corporate had plans drawn up for SFSTL's own layout of Goliath at that park. As plans were moving forward, corporate last minute in 2004 had plans drawn up for SFoG Goliath concept as well and went that route...

The way St Louis locals talk about this, they make it sound like the track was already on its way to St Louis and they re-routed the truck to Georgia. Plans change all the time, we're just not aware of them. If anything SF made the right decision as SFOG is the more profitable park.

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And will people please let the whole Goliath was for St Louis thing go?? Is there any proof other than speculation that this was supposed to happen?? When I visited SFOG, Goliath looks like it was tailor made for OG. It weaves in and out of the park etc;

 

Of course Goliath's layout was designed for specifically for SFoG, that's common sense. In 2004, SF Corporate had plans drawn up for SFSTL's own layout of Goliath at that park. As plans were moving forward, corporate last minute in 2004 had plans drawn up for SFoG Goliath concept as well and went that route...

The way St Louis locals talk about this, they make it sound like the track was already on its way to St Louis and they re-routed the truck to Georgia. Plans change all the time, we're just not aware of them. If anything SF made the right decision as SFOG is the more profitable park.

 

That's not exactly a true statement. Yes SFoG may have more attendance, but more times than not, SFSTL is more profitable than SFoG... actually, many times more than 2/3 of the other SF parks.... not always, but more. Attendance and profit are 2 different monsters. Just because a park has 100s of thousands more visitors than another, does not make it more profitable, if anything, larger parks have a greater chance of having a non profitable season than a smaller park. But I see where confusion can come in, I used to think the same way until I saw numbers year after year.

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And will people please let the whole Goliath was for St Louis thing go?? Is there any proof other than speculation that this was supposed to happen?? When I visited SFOG, Goliath looks like it was tailor made for OG. It weaves in and out of the park etc;

 

Of course Goliath's layout was designed for specifically for SFoG, that's common sense. In 2004, SF Corporate had plans drawn up for SFSTL's own layout of Goliath at that park. As plans were moving forward, corporate last minute in 2004 had plans drawn up for SFoG Goliath concept as well and went that route...

The way St Louis locals talk about this, they make it sound like the track was already on its way to St Louis and they re-routed the truck to Georgia. Plans change all the time, we're just not aware of them. If anything SF made the right decision as SFOG is the more profitable park.

I understand that, maybe profitable was the wrong verbiage. Just like MiA is reported to be more profitable than CP, but CP brings in more $$$ which is why we see more rigorous investment in CP. I think it's the same case with OG vs. Stl, probably not as huge a discrepancy but SF definitely invests more in OG and it's been that way for a long time. I think the hyper was placed where SF felt they'd get the best ROI, not because they wanted to play favorites.

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Just to be clear, MiA in no way makes as much profit as CP. In the last annual report I looked at, CF had approximately $108 million of EBITDA (profit) and $27 million of that came from CP. MiA had just over $2 million in profit, or less than 1/10 of the profit generated by CP. I don't know if SF breaks down profit by park like CF does as it would be interesting to see the actual numbers. But don't fool yourself and think that MiA is even close to CP in profit generation.

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Just to be clear, MiA in no way makes as much profit as CP. In the last annual report I looked at, CF had approximately $108 million of EBITDA (profit) and $27 million of that came from CP. MiA had just over $2 million in profit, or less than 1/10 of the profit generated by CP. I don't know if SF breaks down profit by park like CF does as it would be interesting to see the actual numbers. But don't fool yourself and think that MiA is even close to CP in profit generation.

Profit isn't just about money earned, you have to factor money spent/invested as well. If CP earns $27 million but spends $20 million in capital expenditures, while MiA earns $2 million but only spends $300,000 in capex

..MiA is more profitable.

 

 

prof·it

ˈpräfət/

noun

1.

a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something

 

Which takes me back to my original point of why SFOG probably got the hyper "that belonged to SFStl". While there's a chance SFstl might turn a bigger profit, SFOG probably brings in more money overall which is why they changed plans, to ensure a better ROI

 

It would take CP a year to pay off a B&M, while MiA would take like 20 years. Even if MiA's profit margins are much higher

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Six Flags is also contractually obligated to spend a certain percentage of the park's revenue on capital improvements at SFOG and SFOT that they do not have to at their other parks.

 

 

This does not make any sense......

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No, there's something to it. I've heard this elsewhere, and it has to do with Georgia being the second park. There was no chain then, just one theme park trying to build a second one in another state. At a time when there was only one Disneyland, people were skeptical that a theme park chain could even work. The agreement ensured that Georgia would be treated equally with Texas by requiring that whatever percentage of its profits Texas spent on new rides, the same percentage of Georgia's profits would be spent on its rides. By the time Six Flags over Mid America was built a few years later, the idea of the theme park chain had proven itself, and no such agreement was necessary here. Or so the story goes.

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Six Flags Over Georgia is not owned by Six Flags Entertainment Corp. In an arrangement similar to that for Six Flags Over Texas, it is owned by a group of approximately 120 limited partners—some the heirs of Angus G. Wynne—and is managed by the corporation. In years past, this has caused significant friction, including legal action. Starting in 1991, the park was managed by Time Warner Entertainment. The partners sued Time Warner in 1997, claiming that they had neglected to invest in the park and overcharged the partners for the improvements it did receive. A Gwinnett County civil court jury agreed and awarded the partners damages in excess of US$600 million.

 

^ Thats from SFOG's wiki, but Ive read about this elsewhere in more detail. Hopefully someone can elaborate further?

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Six Flags Over Georgia is not owned by Six Flags Entertainment Corp. In an arrangement similar to that for Six Flags Over Texas, it is owned by a group of approximately 120 limited partners—some the heirs of Angus G. Wynne—and is managed by the corporation. In years past, this has caused significant friction, including legal action. Starting in 1991, the park was managed by Time Warner Entertainment. The partners sued Time Warner in 1997, claiming that they had neglected to invest in the park and overcharged the partners for the improvements it did receive. A Gwinnett County civil court jury agreed and awarded the partners damages in excess of US$600 million.

 

^ Thats from SFOG's wiki, but Ive read about this elsewhere in more detail. Hopefully someone can elaborate further?

 

 

It's in the annual reports. It goes into how the SFOT and SFOG partnership works and the unit shares Corporate is buying over time and the required things Corporate must do, like a minimum capital investment amount that is a 5yr rolling total.

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Not even worth getting your hopes up. You know they're converting an existing restaurant.

 

^^ they most likely won't build a new restaurant until Six Flags is happy with their food service options, which they're still in the process of changing, so it'll be a few years

 

As to where the BBQ restaurant is going in Hurricane Harbor, Primo's Pizzeria's Hurricane Harbor location is no longer listed on the website or the app

 

Neither is the one in the Illinois section of the park near Superman, making me wonder if they're replacing that one too

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Not even worth getting your hopes up. You know they're converting an existing restaurant.

 

^^ they most likely won't build a new restaurant until Six Flags is happy with their food service options, which they're still in the process of changing, so it'll be a few years

 

As to where the BBQ restaurant is going in Hurricane Harbor, Primo's Pizzeria's Hurricane Harbor location is no longer listed on the website or the app

 

Neither is the one in the Illinois section of the park near Superman, making me wonder if they're replacing that one too

 

 

I noticed the same thing too....

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