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Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

p. 550 - Hallowfest trip report!

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So I only just now realized how extremely vague my post was earlier, sorry about that. I was away from home browsing the forum when I had the idea to post that, probably should have thought over it a little more beforehand. What I meant to ask was if there was anything being refurbished/repainted for this season. The only thing I know about/can remember is Pandemonium, so if anyone has anything to share, that'd be greatly appreciated.

 

See what happens when you let your guard down on the internet, you get goofed on

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I don't mean to be a downer, but I'm frustrated with SFStL and SF Corporate:

 

SF had an exclusive deal with RMC FIRST. After NTAG and Iron Rattler, it was a proven amazing upgrade to wooden, troubled, coasters. The Boss SCREAMS daily "please renovate me, I continue to destroy visitors' vertebra by the every ride". SF re-did a TON of coasters all over their chain that didn't need improvements near as bad as the Boss. And not only that, they SAW the crazy appeal for RMC in SDC, SF parks all over the country (and Mexico), had an exclusive contract with them at their "entry rate". Yet, they didn't address the need to RMC the Boss? WHY? I know it was a money thing at first (after RMC's supply/demand proved high). But now it's a pipe dream that'll never ever happen. RMC is arguably the new B&M. Everyone wants one in their park. SFStL won't buck up for it....even though everyone wants it and could cut down maintenance PLUS market as a new coaster. Just watching the hype of Mean RMC in the Cedar Point thread and it's given me another BIG reason to go there. I just wish we could get SOMETHING to get us back on the map. I feel RMC Boss would do it. Not to mention, SDC is in the middle of ANOTHER gigantic attraction....with another Beamer on deck in a year or 2. **sad face**

 

I don't mean to be negative. Just wondering why SF won't buck up for the Iron Boss. And I know that nobody really knows....but they better get their ass in gear for a coaster (and not a spinny looper crap 3 story flippidy do-da) as SDC and closer parks are passing them up with AMAZING attractions year in and out....

 

Happy February

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I don't mean to be a downer, but I'm frustrated with SFStL and SF Corporate:

 

SF had an exclusive deal with RMC FIRST. After NTAG and Iron Rattler, it was a proven amazing upgrade to wooden, troubled, coasters. The Boss SCREAMS daily "please renovate me, I continue to destroy visitors' vertebra by the every ride". SF re-did a TON of coasters all over their chain that didn't need improvements near as bad as the Boss. And not only that, they SAW the crazy appeal for RMC in SDC, SF parks all over the country (and Mexico), had an exclusive contract with them at their "entry rate". Yet, they didn't address the need to RMC the Boss? WHY? I know it was a money thing at first (after RMC's supply/demand proved high). But now it's a pipe dream that'll never ever happen. RMC is arguably the new B&M. Everyone wants one in their park. SFStL won't buck up for it....even though everyone wants it and could cut down maintenance PLUS market as a new coaster. Just watching the hype of Mean RMC in the Cedar Point thread and it's given me another BIG reason to go there. I just wish we could get SOMETHING to get us back on the map. I feel RMC Boss would do it. Not to mention, SDC is in the middle of ANOTHER gigantic attraction....with another Beamer on deck in a year or 2. **sad face**

 

I don't mean to be negative. Just wondering why SF won't buck up for the Iron Boss. And I know that nobody really knows....but they better get their A$$ in gear for a coaster (and not a spinny looper crap 3 story flippidy do-da) as SDC and closer parks are passing them up with AMAZING attractions year in and out....

 

Happy February

 

my two cents -

 

is it possible SFSL gets passed by because we are NOT a destination park? SDC is in a destination City (BRANSON) and many other SF parks have a larger population base to draw from. I suspect RMC can write their own tickets nowadays and maybe a conversion is way out of the parks budget. SFSL is the baby brother in the chain and gets the hand me downs.

 

Updating a coaster is great, but if they can't properly maintain a carousel or even paint the St Louis train station, or wipe the dust from the fans there, maybe there are other reasons the park isn't' more popular and able to justify the Coaster upgrades. Sometimes the little things are what people remember.

 

Kevin

CRW_0018.thumb.JPG.61069502278b021ff5e96e39e751fb5f.JPG

ceiling and ceiling fan in St Louis train Station - taken mid season 2016

CRW_0323.thumb.JPG.57a597f68d990e4a8fd56e1480fa9bb4.JPG

Carousel horse - taken 8.16.16 - pretty ghetto

Edited by Kevin Long
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I don't mean to be a downer, but I'm frustrated with SFStL and SF Corporate:

 

SF had an exclusive deal with RMC FIRST. After NTAG and Iron Rattler, it was a proven amazing upgrade to wooden, troubled, coasters. The Boss SCREAMS daily "please renovate me, I continue to destroy visitors' vertebra by the every ride". SF re-did a TON of coasters all over their chain that didn't need improvements near as bad as the Boss. And not only that, they SAW the crazy appeal for RMC in SDC, SF parks all over the country (and Mexico), had an exclusive contract with them at their "entry rate". Yet, they didn't address the need to RMC the Boss? WHY? I know it was a money thing at first (after RMC's supply/demand proved high). But now it's a pipe dream that'll never ever happen. RMC is arguably the new B&M. Everyone wants one in their park. SFStL won't buck up for it....even though everyone wants it and could cut down maintenance PLUS market as a new coaster. Just watching the hype of Mean RMC in the Cedar Point thread and it's given me another BIG reason to go there. I just wish we could get SOMETHING to get us back on the map. I feel RMC Boss would do it. Not to mention, SDC is in the middle of ANOTHER gigantic attraction....with another Beamer on deck in a year or 2. **sad face**

 

I don't mean to be negative. Just wondering why SF won't buck up for the Iron Boss. And I know that nobody really knows....but they better get their A$$ in gear for a coaster (and not a spinny looper crap 3 story flippidy do-da) as SDC and closer parks are passing them up with AMAZING attractions year in and out....

 

Happy February

 

my two cents -

 

is it possible SFSL gets passed by because we are NOT a destination park? SDC is in a destination City (BRANSON) and many other SF parks have a larger population base to draw from. I suspect RMC can write their own tickets nowadays and maybe a conversion is way out of the parks budget. SFSL is the baby brother in the chain and gets the hand me downs.

 

Updating a coaster is great, but if they can't properly maintain a carousel or even paint the St Louis train station, or wipe the dust from the fans there, maybe there are other reasons the park isn't' more popular and able to justify the Coaster upgrades.

 

Kevin

 

Kevin - nice observation. You're probably on track. It's weird that it's so passed up. Look at what Six Flags Mexico even got the past few years in comparison - a THEMED Pandemonium in form of Joker with cool FX, RMC Medusa, SkyScreamer and now JLBFM. WOW. I'd be thrilled with that! I don't get why SFStL is passed over and Mexico gets that kinda treatment. Yes, RMC-ing the Boss is now gone forever. They would "LOL" at SFStL if they asked to do so for the would have been price. Terrible decision making at corporate, I guess. Yeah, I get your destination theory - why is Holiday World killing it then? They're in the middle of nowhere. Added a launched wing, several woodies, a super waterpark and another new coaster in the next 1-2 years?

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I don't mean to be a downer, but I'm frustrated with SFStL and SF Corporate:

 

SF had an exclusive deal with RMC FIRST. After NTAG and Iron Rattler, it was a proven amazing upgrade to wooden, troubled, coasters. The Boss SCREAMS daily "please renovate me, I continue to destroy visitors' vertebra by the every ride". SF re-did a TON of coasters all over their chain that didn't need improvements near as bad as the Boss. And not only that, they SAW the crazy appeal for RMC in SDC, SF parks all over the country (and Mexico), had an exclusive contract with them at their "entry rate". Yet, they didn't address the need to RMC the Boss? WHY? I know it was a money thing at first (after RMC's supply/demand proved high). But now it's a pipe dream that'll never ever happen. RMC is arguably the new B&M. Everyone wants one in their park. SFStL won't buck up for it....even though everyone wants it and could cut down maintenance PLUS market as a new coaster. Just watching the hype of Mean RMC in the Cedar Point thread and it's given me another BIG reason to go there. I just wish we could get SOMETHING to get us back on the map. I feel RMC Boss would do it. Not to mention, SDC is in the middle of ANOTHER gigantic attraction....with another Beamer on deck in a year or 2. **sad face**

 

I don't mean to be negative. Just wondering why SF won't buck up for the Iron Boss. And I know that nobody really knows....but they better get their A$$ in gear for a coaster (and not a spinny looper crap 3 story flippidy do-da) as SDC and closer parks are passing them up with AMAZING attractions year in and out....

 

Happy February

 

my two cents -

 

is it possible SFSL gets passed by because we are NOT a destination park? SDC is in a destination City (BRANSON) and many other SF parks have a larger population base to draw from. I suspect RMC can write their own tickets nowadays and maybe a conversion is way out of the parks budget. SFSL is the baby brother in the chain and gets the hand me downs.

 

Updating a coaster is great, but if they can't properly maintain a carousel or even paint the St Louis train station, or wipe the dust from the fans there, maybe there are other reasons the park isn't' more popular and able to justify the Coaster upgrades.

 

Kevin

 

Kevin - nice observation. You're probably on track. It's weird that it's so passed up. Look at what Six Flags Mexico even got the past few years in comparison - a THEMED Pandemonium in form of Joker with cool FX, RMC Medusa, SkyScreamer and now JLBFM. WOW. I'd be thrilled with that! I don't get why SFStL is passed over and Mexico gets that kinda treatment. Yes, RMC-ing the Boss is now gone forever. They would "LOL" at SFStL if they asked to do so for the would have been price. Terrible decision making at corporate, I guess. Yeah, I get your destination theory - why is Holiday World killing it then? They're in the middle of nowhere. Added a launched wing, several woodies, a super waterpark and another new coaster in the next 1-2 years?

 

well they seem to be marketing themselves as a destination park too now - I see billboards for them in this area I wonder if you see SFSL billboards in Santa Clause IN. or Evansville I bet not. I do not think they are part of a chain either ( might be wrong) but no or fewer share holders means less corporate decisions that limit possibilities.

 

I mean it may be possible that SFSL is the profit black hole of the company and they use it as a tax write off for the rest of the corporation.

 

Kevin

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I actually found Six Flags St. Louis to be one of the best Six Flags parks in the chain. Even if it didn't have a statistically superior coaster collection, it had Batman - The Ride (my #3 coaster overall), Mr. Freeze, American Thunder, and the Boss (which I only rode in the front row due to all the bad reviews I'd read, and wound up finding it to be an absolutely incredible ride), which is, at least in my opinion, a rather impressive quartet in its own right. The park itself also seemed quite well-rounded, and were it not for some new-to-me parks that I really need to experience, I'd go back in a heartbeat.

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It's interesting to note that SFOT and SFFT were the first two parks to recieve the RMC conversions. You'd think that if anything it would be SFMM and SFGADV first on the list. I believe SFM also got RMC Medusa before SFMM got Twisted Colossus. Makes no sense. And now it looks as if SFSTL won't be getting any RMC goodness at all. This is a truly sad state of affairs.

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It could be any number of reasons. The Boss is rough, but perhaps it doesn't tear itself apart quite the way the Texas Giant did. Also, consider the markets. The DFW metroplex is a substantially larger market than St. Louis. San Antonio is pretty huge in its own right. We may never know the specifics, but I'd venture that the ROI on modified versions of the Texas Giant and the Rattler pretty substantially blows the ROI on a modified Boss.

 

Simply put, there was likely far more money to be made (and potential maintenance cost savings) to justify the cost of converting the Texas wooden coasters to steel coasters as opposed to converting The Boss.

Edited by sirloindude
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I actually found Six Flags St. Louis to be one of the best Six Flags parks in the chain. Even if it didn't have a statistically superior coaster collection, it had Batman - The Ride (my #3 coaster overall), Mr. Freeze, American Thunder, and the Boss (which I only rode in the front row due to all the bad reviews I'd read, and wound up finding it to be an absolutely incredible ride), which is, at least in my opinion, a rather impressive quartet in its own right. The park itself also seemed quite well-rounded, and were it not for some new-to-me parks that I really need to experience, I'd go back in a heartbeat.

 

SFStl is a well rounded park with some fun coasters, but it just doesn't have that signature ride. Every single one of the SF parks now has either a hyper or a RMC coaster, the lone exception is SFStl. (I don't consider Great Escape as a true Six Flags park.) I don't know why SFStl has gotten overlooked in the major coaster department. The troubling aspect is that SF has backed off of building major coasters in the past few years with the exception of the S&S Free Spins and RMC conversions. SF hasn't purchased a B&M since X-Flight in 2012 or an Intamin since Green Lantern in 2011. This trend doesn't bode well for SFStl getting a hyper coaster or even a RMC Boss for that matter. SFStl will continue to be a nice locals park but there's nothing really to pull in enthusiasts or the out of town crowd.

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I agree that there isn't much to pull in out-of-towners (the same can sadly be said of St. Louis itself, even if I rather enjoyed that trip a good bit), but I can assure you that us out-of-town enthusiasts don't bring in nearly enough money to justify the cost of some monstrosity of a signature coaster. However, what you and I and a lot of other enthusiasts would consider a signature coaster varies widely, and certainly is of a higher caliber than what most people would consider one. Ultimately, we all look at these installations in a global, or at least national, context, and that is not the same context as the one that drives business decisions. To the citizens of St. Louis, maybe The Boss is their signature ride. Maybe it's Batman - The Ride. Maybe it's Mr. Freeze. In the eyes of people who aren't as intensely passionate about these things as we are, they have some outstanding, incredible rides, and there are several that could be considered signature coasters.

 

Also, Six Flags St. Louis doesn't really compete with any park in any meaningful sense, as the nearest major parks are all hours away and while I'm not completely sure of the population distribution, I can't imagine that there's a large market located in between St. Louis and Kansas City or Branson or Chicago whose citizens have to decide which park gets their money. Ultimately, if your own market isn't big enough or if there isn't much in the way of a market in which you compete, it's pretty hard to justify spending some exorbitant amount of money on some sort of megacoaster, or at least there hasn't been enough justification yet.

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I actually found Six Flags St. Louis to be one of the best Six Flags parks in the chain...

 

I just can't seem to wrap my head around this statement. . . I even find my self wondering if we both visited the same park.

 

Personally I wouldn't rank Six Flags St. Louis as one of the best Six Flags parks in the chain. . . Hell, I wouldn't even rate Six Flags St. Louis as a park worth visiting. . . Not even just for the credits. Our trip to the park was awful. Operations were terrible, the park was filthy, and the attitudes from all most all of the employees sucked. There were really no coasters worth re-riding, and how they could mess up Mr. Freeze I'll never know. Maybe I am just spoiled having SFOT so close to home, which has a lot of similar rides, much better staff, and half decent operations. . . But I can assure you after the visit we had at SFStL we will never return. I don't care what they build, it won't be enough to draw me back to that god forsaken park.

 

But, to each their own.

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Having spent years visiting SFA, maybe I just have low standards.

 

My visit was in 2009. I actually thought the staff there were quite good, at least as far as Six Flags parks went in those days. Regarding the rides, again, I can never get enough of Batman - The Ride, and it was actually my first lap on the St. Louis model that pushed the Batmen so high up in my rankings. In my eyes, it is the ultimate looping coaster. I loved several other rides as well. I just had an absolute blast there, and were it not for the fact that there weren't so many other parks for me to visit or that were, understandably, more amazing, I'd have had no qualms about going back.

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^haha. 2009 was a long time ago, man. No offense what so ever, but I can't say you have an accurate perspective of the park in its current state.

 

I don't mean to be negative. Just wondering why SF won't buck up for the Iron Boss. And I know that nobody really knows....but they better get their A$$ in gear for a coaster (and not a spinny looper crap 3 story flippidy do-da) as SDC and closer parks are passing them up with AMAZING attractions year in and out....

 

 

Accept the reality that SFSTL has no interest in competing with other parks such as Holiday World, Silver Dollar City, and World's of Fun. It's a local park and most of the draw comes from the depressed St. Louis area. The quicker you see the park for what it is, a local park with no interest in large scale attractions, the quicker you will get over it.

 

Also, the possibility of RMC is unlikely, but no one ever said it's completely out of the question. I believe the last time it was discussed was when Dave was the park president. I also don't understand where you're getting your figures from in reference to RMC's I-box conversion costs. It's not like they were giving the conversions away buy one-get one free. Maybe the initial prototype was slightly discounted, due to the unknown factor, but I doubt they gave it away for next to nothing.

 

SFSTL wasn't considered for the initial prototypes, because Dallas and San Antonio have a drastically larger population to pull from than St. Louis.

 

And how exactly do Texas Giant and Rattler both rate RMC conversions when The Boss does not.

 

With 'return on investment' analysis and data that the general public doesn't have access to.

 

I haven't been on Texas Giant, but I can tell you exactly why Rattler got the conversion: It was in an awesome location, but the ride plain sucked.

 

This. That ride wasn't just uncomfortable, but it actually hurt to ride. It was the roughest wooden roller coaster I've ever ridden.

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I can't imagine that there's a large market located in between St. Louis and Kansas City or Branson or Chicago whose citizens have to decide which park gets their money.

Actually, the Columbia/Jefferson City area is bigger than you'd think, over 100,000 people. That isn't a large market, no, but it's not insignificant.

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