Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

[KBrylczyk]

I don't have any skin in the game for this park, I just wanted to pop in and mention how funny it is that one of the most active topics on TPR is this park, one that hasn't had anything noteworthy happen to it in, I dunnno, forever.

[bossstl]

Maybe we're more passionate then other theme park nerds, or we just like to complain a lot.

37 minutes ago, KBrylczyk said:

I don't have any skin in the game for this park, I just wanted to pop in and mention how funny it is that one of the most active topics on TPR is this park, one that hasn't had anything noteworthy happen to it in, I dunnno, forever.

 

[gnucksjr]

On 12/11/2022 at 12:05 AM, liltrekkie said:

I don't blame them, I have a legacy diamond elite VIP pass. They are losing a crap ton of money on me, considering I visited the place 3x a week basically for the year. 

 

I am the bane of all six flags everywhere.

My family are also legacy Diamond Elite VIPs… there have been many visits where our family have spent an entire day in the park without spending a dime (outside of the monthly cost). 
 

I reached out to Guest Relations a couple weeks ago to ask about how our passes fit into the new structure and was told:

“To our knowledge, your benefits are not changing.  Memberships that were grandfathered once the products changed were locked into what they were offering at the time the change took place.  When and if changes do occur, you will be notified.”

With the way the response was phrased, I’m expecting to get that notification sometime before mid-March… and we will most likely drop our passes the day after.

Trying to stay positive, but it’s tough to do.

[gnucksjr]

5 minutes ago, bossstl said:

Maybe we're more passionate then other theme park nerds, or we just like to complain a lot.

 

Who doesn’t love an underdog story?

[SteveStL]

6 minutes ago, bossstl said:

Maybe we're more passionate then other theme park nerds, or we just like to complain a lot.

 

SFSTL is a legacy park that been around for over 50 years.  It should be the gem of the Midwest, and it very well could be if the park got the attention is needs.  I think that's what gets under everyone's skin.  We all know how great the Park could be, all the potential is there.   

[coasterbill]

2 minutes ago, SteveStL said:

It should be the gem of the Midwest

I mean... they could build dueling giga coasters and I'd still rather go to Silver Dollar City. Sorry, not sorry. lol

[mikeykaise]

26 minutes ago, coasterbill said:

I mean... they could build dueling giga coasters and I'd still rather go to Silver Dollar City. Sorry, not sorry. lol

Agreed, I've been to this park once, that was enough for me.

[southpuddle]

Speaking strictly in terms of theme parks, I’d kill to live somewhere like St Louis where I have options within a day‘s drive. I live in Seattle. The closest “major” park, Silverwood, is a 5 hour drive. You have WOF, KK and SDC within 4 hours, in addition to a major theme park in your hometown. So I don’t feel sorry for you guys

 

[SteveStL]

2 hours ago, coasterbill said:

I mean... they could build dueling giga coasters and I'd still rather go to Silver Dollar City. Sorry, not sorry. lol

For sure ... that's the way it has worked out.  I love SDC and if it were here in STL I would buy season passes every year.  You all are just proving my point.

[Danrarbc]

39 minutes ago, southpuddle said:

Speaking strictly in terms of theme parks, I’d kill to live somewhere like St Louis where I have options within a day‘s drive. I live in Seattle. The closest “major” park, Silverwood, is a 5 hour drive. You have WOF, KK and SDC within 4 hours, in addition to a major theme park in your hometown. So I don’t feel sorry for you guys

 

What? You don't like Wild Waves?

 

PS: Don't forget Holiday World. And if you expand the drive to 6 hours you have Great America and King's Island.

[southpuddle]

Fun story, I’ve lived in Seattle for 4 years and not once have had the urge to go to Wild Waves

[liltrekkie]

6 hours ago, KBrylczyk said:

I don't have any skin in the game for this park, I just wanted to pop in and mention how funny it is that one of the most active topics on TPR is this park, one that hasn't had anything noteworthy happen to it in, I dunnno, forever.

Well I mean there was one noteworthy thing that happened. Involving some very aggressive turkey legs.

[prozach626]

I'd be too self conscious to tell people I'm a "diamond elite" anything for a theme park. It sounds so ultra-nerd status. I'd still just refer to it as a season pass...

 

18 hours ago, Danrarbc said:

The 2022 problem is they wanted people to pay more while receiving less.

^ lol look. Now it's applicable everywhere!

 

5 hours ago, Danrarbc said:

PS: Don't forget Holiday World. And if you expand the drive to 6 hours you have Great America and King's Island.

Also, Indiana Beach and Worlds of Fun.

[Lotologist492]

10 hours ago, gnucksjr said:

My family are also legacy Diamond Elite VIPs… there have been many visits where our family have spent an entire day in the park without spending a dime (outside of the monthly cost). 
 

I reached out to Guest Relations a couple weeks ago to ask about how our passes fit into the new structure and was told:

“To our knowledge, your benefits are not changing.  Memberships that were grandfathered once the products changed were locked into what they were offering at the time the change took place.  When and if changes do occur, you will be notified.”

With the way the response was phrased, I’m expecting to get that notification sometime before mid-March… and we will most likely drop our passes the day after.

Trying to stay positive, but it’s tough to do.

Highly doubtful SF will pull the plug on legacy memberships.  The instant they do that, they lose all that guaranteed cash which is coming in month after month.  And I seriously doubt a legacy DEVIP member that just got 'dumped' will opt to buy a similar priced pass which offers much less.  That's not to say many years down the road when legacy pass numbers have dwindled they may consider ending them at that point.

And as for why there is so much traffic on this thread, while I cannot speak for other park threads, the SFoG page gets far less traffic than this one, likely due to the fact that park has its own unofficial Facebook group with LOTS of discussion taking place there.  

[prozach626]

Goliath gave them peace of mind.

[AmyUD06]

7 hours ago, Lotologist492 said:

And as for why there is so much traffic on this thread, while I cannot speak for other park threads, the SFoG page gets far less traffic than this one, likely due to the fact that park has its own unofficial Facebook group with LOTS of discussion taking place there.  

Nah, the SFoG thread gets a normal amount of traffic compared to other threads here.  This one gets so much more because every few months someone(s) come crying about how "Corporate hates us!!1!!" and "We need new major additions every year or the park is going to close!"  What results is several pages of those more rational individuals logically disproving the doomsayers, and the doomsayers trying to convince everyone that they're right.

It is entirely possible for parks to be profitable without a constant influx of new customers; returning customers are just as much of a profit center as new ones are.  Look at any of the non-major CF parks; no major additions for years and years, yet the parks still continue to operate and draw substantial crowds.  If it turns out that the cancellation of HiTP results in substantially lower season pass sales (to the point that the cost-savings from not running it doesn't outweigh the additional income from the SP sales) they'll reverse course and bring it back, as any business that is trying to make money would.  (Arguments about whether Six Flags, under the current CEO, is actually a "business that is trying to make money" are better suited for the Corporate thread, since this is not the only park affected by it.)

Boo-hoo that you don't get two additional months of ripping off the chain with your "this was way too cheap to begin with" Diamond Elite Membership.  You are not the profit drivers for the park and never were.

[teacherkim]

On 12/12/2022 at 11:08 PM, Lotologist492 said:

I was not comparing STL weather to New Jersey.  SFGadv still has HitP currently.  I was referring to SFGAM and SFNE - and now DL (although they have not yet hosted Holiday).  The STL area has no more unpredictable weather than the Atlanta area.  The only difference is that it rains much more in the south, versus cold, snow and ice. 

SFoG actually rolled out Holiday in the Park for the 1989 and 1990 seasons - incidentally becoming only the second park in the chain outside of Over Texas to host it.  The 1989 season featured record cold temps for the region, and the 1990 event was hampered by rain all December long.  Granted, HitP was much smaller in scale back then in that it only utilized about a third of the park and a list of about 12 rides, but in any event HitP was scrapped in GA and did not return there until 2014.  

And yes, it is very easy to justify an individual event that loses money on its own - if it drives pass and membership sales.  If this were not the case, SFFT and SFoT would not be open weekends in Jan-Feb.  And judging by the light crowds at Holiday in my home park, the event simply would not happen.  Perception is reality.  A well-rounded portfolio does sell passes, which in themselves are money in the bank for the park.  And for proof of this, one has to look no further than the staggering attendance and crowds in recent memory.  The strategy of adding events and days, as well as heavy discounting of passes worked.  Too well.  In walks Bassoul & company with a plan to reduce attendance by reducing demand.  They cut hours, events, dates, and raised prices.  The plan worked.  Too well.  Which brings us to today, and the crossroads SF corporate find themselves standing at.  Should they start discounting passes again?  How about extending operating days / hours?  Maybe bringing back Holiday in the Park?  What about more new rides and attractions?  While nothing is certain, it appears all options are on the table as they attempt to get pass holder and attendance numbers back up.  And while you personally are not a huge fan of HitP, and that event or lack thereof does not factor into your pass buying decision, and ditto for some others, there are more than enough GP that does care.  

Personally, I do not envy the powers-to-be at SF.

I get that you weren't making a direct comparison to SFGadv I was just trying to make a point that being further south didn't guarantee better weather and that a number of factors go into making an event worthwhile. I personally think they would be more likely to bring it back to SFAM before St. Louis since A) they have a much bigger population and B) they are much more equipped for the cold, IF it was happening here this year I can assure you based on predicted temps they would NOT be open on Dec 22 & 23. Two days that should be high attendance being right before the holiday and all schools out by then. And while ATL may have unpredictable weather, as does 90% of the country, it still runs a solid 10-15 degrees warmer than STL.

Sorry I still don't buy that they will run an event that loses money on the possibility they will make up the difference in pass sales. The GP may care but they were not showing up in huge numbers and/or staying for very long per more than one park employee I have spoken with. 

I do agree that they are at a crossroads as to what to do regarding more pass holders and better attendance. I can tell you that hours were cut because of lack of staffing. The park cannot get enough workers. I said before, and still believe, that increasing staffing (and therefore being able to offer longer hours, less closed rides, and more dining venues) would be the quickest way to increase guest satisfaction. But like the park itself I am at a loss at the moment as to how to solve the problem.

[prozach626]

This thread is hilarious.

Two thoughts. A company offering a product should attempt to please a consumer, more than a consumer should attempt to please the company. What I mean is that these bullshit loyalty claims throughout the industry of "supporting the park," with disregard to product satisfaction is really twisted. Giving to a corporation is not giving to a charity.

For example, on a Silver Dollar City Facebook group I watched some lady get destroyed by fanboys because she simply said she wasn't going to renew her passes if the train wasn't operational by next season. She said her family enjoys the train the most. She was shamed for not supporting the park.

 

My second thought, on behalf of parks, is that they also don't owe you anything. Parks are simply offering their product as is and leaving it up to the consumer to make their purchasing decision. They should, and only will please you, if it benefits their profits margin.

Companies will change their product depending on current market target trends and profit. A company's goal is return on investment, which usually comes from customer satisfaction resulting in purchasing the product. The bottom line is about your money, not your feelings, despite them being typically related. However, the relationship is much less personable than people want it to be.

If you're not satisfied with the product being offered, don't renew your passes. Corporate doesn't take this personal. You have a right to be pissed if you want, but there's really no reason to expect anything other than profit driven decisions.

Six Flags Saint Louis is currently pleasing enough guests to justify their decisions to not add new attractions. If they're not pleasing you, there's no need to have blind loyalty. Wait for them to offer a product you want to pay for. Don't pay first and expect your desired product as a result of some false loyalty. That's counterintuitive.

As for us, I'd love to not renew our passes this year, but Eve crossed the 36" threshold. There may not be anything new for me, but there's plenty new for her. We'll see.

[TrippinBillie]

Well said, @prozach626- however, when you know as a corporation the VERY well-overdue thing that would boost more consumer dollars and flat-out ignore it, it's stupid for the corporation to continue turning away from that glaring need.  I understand consumer frustration, to that extent.  I also agree with you - don't like it, don't support it. 

It's just mind boggling to me they have a violent, rotting coaster that COULD be a world-class one and be half the cost of building a new, ground-up build.  But that's the sh*t we deal with having SFSTL local - and them barely getting by.  A small capital investment would, without question, boost their ROI/Revenue exponentially.  See any other park that did an RMC conversion.

[grsupercity]

Rumor I keep hearing is that Six Flags purchased an additional skyline P’Sghetti Bowl coaster. This park is really the only one without a kiddie coaster. So if they did purchase another one hopefully it finds its way here 

[coasterbill]

34 minutes ago, grsupercity said:

Rumor I keep hearing is that Six Flags purchased an additional skyline P’Sghetti Bowl coaster.

Well then they need to put down the crackpipe...

[prozach626]

Doubtful, but there's already a nice piece of flat land where Thunder River is.

I hope Magic Mountain enjoys their new family coaster.

[SteveStL]

On 12/20/2022 at 10:58 AM, grsupercity said:

 This park is really the only one without a kiddie coaster. 

This park is without a lot of things.  Don't hold your breath

[teacherkim]

On 12/16/2022 at 10:34 AM, prozach626 said:

This thread is hilarious.

Two thoughts. A company offering a product should attempt to please a consumer, more than a consumer should attempt to please the company. What I mean is that these bullshit loyalty claims throughout the industry of "supporting the park," with disregard to product satisfaction is really twisted. Giving to a corporation is not giving to a charity.

For example, on a Silver Dollar City Facebook group I watched some lady get destroyed by fanboys because she simply said she wasn't going to renew her passes if the train wasn't operational by next season. She said her family enjoys the train the most. She was shamed for not supporting the park.

 

My second thought, on behalf of parks, is that they also don't owe you anything. Parks are simply offering their product as is and leaving it up to the consumer to make their purchasing decision. They should, and only will please you, if it benefits their profits margin.

Companies will change their product depending on current market target trends and profit. A company's goal is return on investment, which usually comes from customer satisfaction resulting in purchasing the product. The bottom line is about your money, not your feelings, despite them being typically related. However, the relationship is much less personable than people want it to be.

If you're not satisfied with the product being offered, don't renew your passes. Corporate doesn't take this personal. You have a right to be pissed if you want, but there's really no reason to expect anything other than profit driven decisions.

Six Flags Saint Louis is currently pleasing enough guests to justify their decisions to not add new attractions. If they're not pleasing you, there's no need to have blind loyalty. Wait for them to offer a product you want to pay for. Don't pay first and expect your desired product as a result of some false loyalty. That's counterintuitive.

As for us, I'd love to not renew our passes this year, but Eve crossed the 36" threshold. There may not be anything new for me, but there's plenty new for her. We'll see.

 

On 12/19/2022 at 7:23 PM, TrippinBillie said:

Well said, @prozach626- however, when you know as a corporation the VERY well-overdue thing that would boost more consumer dollars and flat-out ignore it, it's stupid for the corporation to continue turning away from that glaring need.  I understand consumer frustration, to that extent.  I also agree with you - don't like it, don't support it. 

It's just mind boggling to me they have a violent, rotting coaster that COULD be a world-class one and be half the cost of building a new, ground-up build.  But that's the sh*t we deal with having SFSTL local - and them barely getting by.  A small capital investment would, without question, boost their ROI/Revenue exponentially.  See any other park that did an RMC conversion.

Well these two posts are kind of the whole point. Zach is absolutely correct that at the moment the park is pleasing enough people to not have to make big additions. Billie also has a point and that situation could change at some future point if they have evidence there would be a good enough roi......................time will tell.  As I have stated before, I have it on very good authority that the RMC conversion was in the books until the virus that shall not be named hit. I still think they would get the most bang for their buck in guest satisfaction for the short term if they could improve staffing issues. I will be interested to see what if anything the new park President, whoever that poor sod is, does once they get the mantle of command.

Anyway we are out of here to warmer climates tomorrow for about 10 days. Plane due to leave at 10 am so we will literally be getting out in the nick of time, fingers crossed. Enjoy arguing and speculating while I'm gone and I hope everyone has a Happy whatever holiday you do or don't celebrate!

[prozach626]

Perfect timing. Enjoy your trip.