Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

[Zcev5454]

The only bearable part for me is the newly retracked section between the station fly by and the helix( only about 200-300 ft.).

[Arrow Dynamics fan]

I see a few problems with trying to do the Iron Horse conversion:

 

1. Cost: Texas Giant cost about $10 million to rehab, which is pretty much the same price that it cost to build Outlaw Run. So basically what you are asking for is to tear down the Boss for a new coaster. This means instead of getting hopefully a coaster we would like whether it is a hyper, multi-looper, etc. We would be sacrificing the Boss to get a steel coaster on a wooden frame that features neither of the advantages from either segment (classic feeling from wood, or more extreme elements from steel).

 

2. Long-term Popularity: I understand Texas Giant currently lands on 5th place, but the question is "will the popularity last?" Despite wooden coaster elements and segments being much less advanced than that of steel coasters, wooden coasters maintain their popularity better as well as their relevance. Take a look at how Screamin' Eagle compares to El Toro or Hades 360 vs. how any steel coaster (Corkscrew, Shockwave) from that time era compares to our modern coaster segments (Giga, Strata, 4th Dimension, etc.). The Boss's popularity is still strong in its current version as it generally has the longest line of all of the coasters from what I have seen. Why get rid of what is currently popular?

 

3. Other Alternatives: I agree that something needs to be done to try to fix it for good as I remember that last year at the beginning it rode like a dream, but just a couple weeks later it was rough again. I will stand by the position that a major contributor to the problem are the trains. Ever coaster that has used these trains has a reputation for being rough, if they were to get a more modern train that is more flexible with more generous padding, it would help significantly. I would also be more inclined to try some topper track in a few rough areas so long as it doesn't loose the classic wooden coaster feeling.

 

4. Potential Flooded Market: Tying into Long-term Popularity, I can see this being done on a lot more larger coasters which roughness is merely one of their many flaws. For instance, Mean Streak while it is large doesn't have any noteworthy air time, drops, and has to run so slow for what it is and is not just vibration rough like Boss, but the whole ride feels like it is broken and is only working by last minute jerry-rigged solutions. If this happens, each one is going to want more impressive elements than the previous (see Iron Rattler vs. Texas Giant) and if you are one of the first, you will lose from having an older, more outdated version after many follow after.

[ArizonaGuy]

Funny how Missouri's *insert giggle*"Coaster Capital" hasn't even opened its 2013 attraction and people are already speculating and naming their 2014/2015 attraction. I guess I'll play along.

 

 

Wing Coaster......highly doubt it. SFStL doesn't bring in the attendance for something that costly. If it actually happens, I'd $h!t my pants.

 

I believe Iron Rattler cost SFFT about $6 million for the renovation so I'd say SFStL is more likely to get a remodeled Boss than a B&M coaster that cost double to triple that. At the very least, they'd get that kiddie coaster the park is lacking.

[SFOverTexasFan]

Yeah, I couldn't see a wing rider going to St. Louis at all. I could however see the RMC treatment on Boss within the next few years, maybe sooner.

[ernierocker]

I see a few problems with trying to do the Iron Horse conversion:

 

1. Cost: Texas Giant cost about $10 million to rehab, which is pretty much the same price that it cost to build Outlaw Run. So basically what you are asking for is to tear down the Boss for a new coaster. This means instead of getting hopefully a coaster we would like whether it is a hyper, multi-looper, etc. We would be sacrificing the Boss to get a steel coaster on a wooden frame that features neither of the advantages from either segment (classic feeling from wood, or more extreme elements from steel).

 

2. Long-term Popularity: I understand Texas Giant currently lands on 5th place, but the question is "will the popularity last?" Despite wooden coaster elements and segments being much less advanced than that of steel coasters, wooden coasters maintain their popularity better as well as their relevance. Take a look at how Screamin' Eagle compares to El Toro or Hades 360 vs. how any steel coaster (Corkscrew, Shockwave) from that time era compares to our modern coaster segments (Giga, Strata, 4th Dimension, etc.). The Boss's popularity is still strong in its current version as it generally has the longest line of all of the coasters from what I have seen. Why get rid of what is currently popular?

 

3. Other Alternatives: I agree that something needs to be done to try to fix it for good as I remember that last year at the beginning it rode like a dream, but just a couple weeks later it was rough again. I will stand by the position that a major contributor to the problem are the trains. Ever coaster that has used these trains has a reputation for being rough, if they were to get a more modern train that is more flexible with more generous padding, it would help significantly. I would also be more inclined to try some topper track in a few rough areas so long as it doesn't loose the classic wooden coaster feeling.

 

4. Potential Flooded Market: Tying into Long-term Popularity, I can see this being done on a lot more larger coasters which roughness is merely one of their many flaws. For instance, Mean Streak while it is large doesn't have any noteworthy air time, drops, and has to run so slow for what it is and is not just vibration rough like Boss, but the whole ride feels like it is broken and is only working by last minute jerry-rigged solutions. If this happens, each one is going to want more impressive elements than the previous (see Iron Rattler vs. Texas Giant) and if you are one of the first, you will lose from having an older, more outdated version after many follow after.

 

Dude, you aren't talking about a flying coaster or a wing coaster here. You are talking about three rides that are top 10/top 20 coasters for (the majority of) everyone that has ridden them. This isn't a fad like the stand-up coaster or a marketing scheme like turning Batman around backwards. Each time, RMC has produced what has become the respective park's signature attraction. The popularity of these will not not fade anytime soon, certainly not to where you will sit back and regret replacing a dull woodie with a coaster that will put your park back on the map. You would be crazy, if you think people in 10 years will go to SFOT and think "Meh, not sure if I will ride NTAG today, it is just so boring now... That amazing airtime is just so repetitive and overdone..."

 

And your whole "flooded market" theory... I would sure take a flooded market of Mega-Lites in the U.S., just saying.

Edited May 17, 2013 by ernierocker

[StLCPfan]

Considering how high TPR members rate the Intamin megalite design and knowing Six Flags' propensity to build smaller rides at SFStL the last decade, I would be ECSTATIC if they decided to build USA's first megalite at SFStL.

[Woodie Warrior]

I see a few problems with trying to do the Iron Horse conversion:

 

1. Cost: Texas Giant cost about $10 million to rehab, which is pretty much the same price that it cost to build Outlaw Run. So basically what you are asking for is to tear down the Boss for a new coaster. This means instead of getting hopefully a coaster we would like whether it is a hyper, multi-looper, etc. We would be sacrificing the Boss to get a steel coaster on a wooden frame that features neither of the advantages from either segment (classic feeling from wood, or more extreme elements from steel).

 

2. Long-term Popularity: I understand Texas Giant currently lands on 5th place, but the question is "will the popularity last?" Despite wooden coaster elements and segments being much less advanced than that of steel coasters, wooden coasters maintain their popularity better as well as their relevance. Take a look at how Screamin' Eagle compares to El Toro or Hades 360 vs. how any steel coaster (Corkscrew, Shockwave) from that time era compares to our modern coaster segments (Giga, Strata, 4th Dimension, etc.). The Boss's popularity is still strong in its current version as it generally has the longest line of all of the coasters from what I have seen. Why get rid of what is currently popular?

 

3. Other Alternatives: I agree that something needs to be done to try to fix it for good as I remember that last year at the beginning it rode like a dream, but just a couple weeks later it was rough again. I will stand by the position that a major contributor to the problem are the trains. Ever coaster that has used these trains has a reputation for being rough, if they were to get a more modern train that is more flexible with more generous padding, it would help significantly. I would also be more inclined to try some topper track in a few rough areas so long as it doesn't loose the classic wooden coaster feeling.

 

4. Potential Flooded Market: Tying into Long-term Popularity, I can see this being done on a lot more larger coasters which roughness is merely one of their many flaws. For instance, Mean Streak while it is large doesn't have any noteworthy air time, drops, and has to run so slow for what it is and is not just vibration rough like Boss, but the whole ride feels like it is broken and is only working by last minute jerry-rigged solutions. If this happens, each one is going to want more impressive elements than the previous (see Iron Rattler vs. Texas Giant) and if you are one of the first, you will lose from having an older, more outdated version after many follow after.

 

1. So you pointed out that the cost to build a new coaster like Outlaw Run or just completely redo the Boss would cost the same. Well considering that SFSTL has to repair the track on the Boss each season, completely fixing that problem would be financially efficient in the long run. Plus, every non-water-park ride added in the past ten or so years has replaced another ride. This is because SFSTL has no plans to expand (or maybe they do, who knows) and additional rides=more workers. Of course, either of those options are not really "expensive" compared to most rides in the industry today.

 

2. Um, Boss and Screamin' Eagle are hardly relevant and are nowhere near top 10, or even top 20 wooden coasters anymore. American Thunder is the only one that I see on top 50 lists anymore. Boss only has long lines when it is running less than three trains. American Thunder's line is only short because it can carry lots more riders per hour than any other ride at the park.

 

3. I do not believe that topper track can be applied in a few locations only. I think it is an all or nothing deal. Even if so, I have ridden twice this year, and the ENTIRE ride is rough. So yeah, topper track would be needed on the entire track. And that is not a marketable upgrade. Iron Horse treatment is proven to be a marketable move.

 

4. Texas is the only state with iron horse coasters right now. Both of them are still popular. In fact, some people have even said that while NTAG lacks inversions, they believe it is a better coaster than iRat. SDC just got an inverting woodie from RMC. SFSTL is going to do something to go head-to-head with them. Iron Boss would be a great solution.

[Rollercoaster Rider]

...Texas is the only state with iron horse coasters right now.

 

Isn't Outlaw Run an Iron Horse Coaster?

[Zcev5454]

...Texas is the only state with iron horse coasters right now.

 

Isn't Outlaw Run an Iron Horse Coaster?

No, the iron horse is RMC's coaster with the red metal I-beam tracks. Outlaw Run uses their Topper Track.

[epicz1212]

rmc says one of there next projects are for the boss next year.

[prozach626]

rmc says one of there next projects are for the boss next year.

 

Where did you get this information?

[molemaster43]

Hello,

 

I am going to be heading to Six Flags St. Louis on a Monday in June. I was wondering how big the crowds were and if there were any good strategies to avoid horrendous lines.

 

Thanks.

[Zcev5454]

Hello,

 

I am going to be heading to Six Flags St. Louis on a Monday in June. I was wondering how big the crowds were and if there were any good strategies to avoid horrendous lines.

 

Thanks.

There will be little to no crowd, and the only "long" lines you would find will be the Bonzai Pipeline, Superman: Tower of Power, and depending on how well it goes over, the Boomerang.

If there happens to be a lot of people there (for groups, churches, etc.), I would start at the back near the Boss and Superman/Boomerang and go wherever from there. If planning on going to the waterpark, be sure to do that either first thing in the morning, or later in the evening.

[molemaster43]

^Okay, thank you!

[Woodie Warrior]

Hello,

 

I am going to be heading to Six Flags St. Louis on a Monday in June. I was wondering how big the crowds were and if there were any good strategies to avoid horrendous lines.

 

Thanks.

Head towards Pandemonium first. Then ride the rest of the rides in the area (the best flat is Xcalibur), with Boss being the last.

 

Then go up to Boomerang, Screamin' Eagle, and Superman in that order. Ride SkyScreamer and Mine Train.

 

Ride Batman and Ninja in any order. Finally, go over to American Thunder and Mr. Freeze in that order, get in line at Freeze right before closing and they will let you ride over and over again if the queue gets empty.

 

If interested in the waterpark go straight there first, ride Bonzai Pipeline, Tornado, Speed Slides, and Wahoo Racer in that order. Then go straight to Boomerang and continue on the list.

 

These are what the lines will look like most of the day:

LONG LINES (40+ minutes)

Bonzai Pipeline

Boomerang

Boss

Mr. Freeze

Pandemonium

Tornado

MEDIUM LINES (15-40 minutes)

Batman

Screamin' Eagle

Speed Slides

Superman

Wahoo Racer

Xcalibur

SHORT LINES (-15 minutes)

American Thunder

Mine Train

Ninja

SkyScreamer

[Zcev5454]

^ On a Monday, The Boss and Mr. Freeze will not have a 40+ minute wait if there are not many school groups there. On Mothers Day weekend ( where season pass holders got to bring a friend for free), The Boss and Mr. Freeze's line did not exceed 40-50 minutes on Saturday with not all the trains running all day. Xcalibur can hold up to 64 passengers and the ride time is around 1-1.5 minutes. On a bring-a-friend-free day( Saturday), I waited only 15-20 mins. It's a very tame, yet interesting ride. Boomerang is still just a guess, as it doesn't open until June 1st, with the exception of a possible season pass holder preview, which has been done lots of times in the past. Generally, the water park lines move fairly quick, except for Bonzai Pipeline and Tornado( usually about a 30 minute weekday wait). Like I said before, on a Monday there will be little to no crowd, and the Hurricane Harbor Flash Pass is a very affordable way to minimize the waits for the slides with the least capacity( Bonzai & Tornado).

[Woodie Warrior]

^ On a Monday, The Boss and Mr. Freeze will not have a 40+ minute wait if there are not many school groups there. On Mothers Day weekend ( where season pass holders got to bring a friend for free), The Boss and Mr. Freeze's line did not exceed 40-50 minutes on Saturday with not all the trains running all day. Xcalibur can hold up to 64 passengers and the ride time is around 1-1.5 minutes. On a bring-a-friend-free day( Saturday), I waited only 15-20 mins. It's a very tame, yet interesting ride. Boomerang is still just a guess, as it doesn't open until June 1st, with the exception of a possible season pass holder preview, which has been done lots of times in the past. Generally, the water park lines move fairly quick, except for Bonzai Pipeline and Tornado( usually about a 30 minute weekday wait). Like I said before, on a Monday there will be little to no crowd, and the Hurricane Harbor Flash Pass is a very affordable way to minimize the waits for the slides with the least capacity( Bonzai & Tornado).

 

On Mother's Day weekend, (on Saturday) I waited an hour for Mr. Freeze and the Boss (which is at limited capacity). Xcalibur really does depend on the crew members though. Some of them are quick, some painfully slow. But yes, those waits could really be different depending on the day. Some days Mine Train will be a walk on, some days it will be a 40 minute wait. It's hard to predict waits for SFSTL.

[Zcev5454]

Just remember that the OP is going on a Monday in June ( where lots of children are in summer school). I'm there 5-6 days a week during the summer and know that Monday-Wednesday is completely dead in the main park.

[Woodie Warrior]

Just remember that the OP is going on a Monday in June ( where lots of children are in summer school). I'm there 5-6 days a week during the summer and know that Monday-Wednesday is completely dead in the main park.

 

I'm not going to argue, but just to let you know, a lot of children don't go to summer school.

 

Anyway, it really depends. The first and last weeks of June could be semi-crowded (they're around Memorial Day and 4th of July). The middle weeks could be empty.

[epicz1212]

rmc says one of there next projects are for the boss next year.

 

Where did you get this information?

by http://www.negative-g.com/

[Woodie Warrior]

rmc says one of there next projects are for the boss next year.

 

Where did you get this information?

by http://www.negative-g.com/

I found the forum topic there where it discusses that.

RMC has not confirmed that.

The guy at RCDB (Roller Coaster DataBase) said Boss was one of the coaster he thinks will be getting Iron Horse in 2014.

Here's the real source.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/travel/la-trb-rocky-mountain-coasters-10201225,0,5893765.story?page=2

[Dinnwitted]

rmc says one of there next projects are for the boss next year.

 

Where did you get this information?

by http://www.negative-g.com/

I found the forum topic there where it discusses that.

RMC has not confirmed that.

The guy at RCDB (Roller Coaster DataBase) said Boss was one of the coaster he thinks will be getting Iron Horse in 2014.

Here's the real source.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/travel/la-trb-rocky-mountain-coasters-10201225,0,5893765.story?page=2

And with that one of my friends got a headache from the ride, a first for them. They said the ride has gotten unbearable. SF, time to call for RMC TLC.

[prozach626]

Yeah, I remember reading that article. Only time will tell.

 

The Boss almost always goes through some retracking, in the off season. It's interesting to me that this usual TLC didn't take place last winter. It really wouldn't surprise me if next year is the year for the transformation. I'm starting to think it's only a matter of time. If so, I hope they throw in some kind of a new trick, aside from a barrel roll.

[epicz1212]

rmc says one of there next projects are for the boss next year.

 

Where did you get this information?

by http://www.negative-g.com/

I found the forum topic there where it discusses that.

RMC has not confirmed that.

The guy at RCDB (Roller Coaster DataBase) said Boss was one of the coaster he thinks will be getting Iron Horse in 2014.

Here's the real source.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/travel/la-trb-rocky-mountain-coasters-10201225,0,5893765.story?page=2

And with that one of my friends got a headache from the ride, a first for them. They said the ride has gotten unbearable. SF, time to call for RMC TLC.

ok thanks

[ArizonaGuy]

Any new pics of the new Boomerang area???? How is progress coming along?