GigaG Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I went on this a few years ago with my mom. It was so bumpy we bumped heads! It was worse than it's big cousin Mean Streak (And I thought that was bad!). Hopefully the OMFG turns will be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailBlazer Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I have been watching this thread from the beginning as The Texas Giant (at least in its original form/early life) was one of my favorite coasters ever. Many thoughts have crossed my mind seeing the old ride pretty much destroyed. The new profile of the ride looks like it might be very exciting and I would like to take a spin on it. That said, I have a few concerns; some of which have been brought up in this thread by others. No, I am no coaster expert, but I have watched coasters being built for many years and have seen lots of things not turn out as planned and many times some enthusiasts do see these things in advance. My first concern is how the sections of track are connected or in this case seem not to be connected very well. It appears that two flat ended sections of track meet and are bolted by four bolts on the bottom and then two plates hold the top together with six bolts. The more I look at this, the more I don't get it. Maybe there is something I missing? Why didn't they try to interlock these sections more? It seems that having ties on each end of track so that each section could be connected to the next would have made more sense, but that still doesn't lock the track rails completely. The "topper track" seems to be a better design than what is happening on Giant. Apparently they wanted to make the coaster be like a wooden coaster and avoid going the tubular steel route. I am not sure they thought all of this through enough before proceeding. It also would have made more sense to try this on a much smaller coaster to see how it worked instead of completely reworking a ride of this size and making it even more extreme with untested track. As for the bolts on the top of the track, it seems obvious that the wheels would clear them as long as everything is running properly. But what happens if a train derails and hits these bolts? If they are sheared off wouldn't the track separate? It appears that is possible. And the structure certainly looks questionable in spots, particularly on the high, over-banked turns. I know the ride isn't finished, but it appears in photos that they are just putting wood up in as they see fit and not by any plan. I would imagine that most coasters have their profiles designed first and the structure is designed to support the profile. Again, it doesn't seem that is happening here. I am really curious to see how this all turns out, but I won't be surprised if there are delays with this ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechanic Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 The old saying: "You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette." seems to apply here. Are they going to face challenges with a new and un-tested design? Of course. The idea that this wasn't fully thought through is laughable though. How would any of us looking in from the outside have any clue whatsoever as to what the design and implementation of this concept entailed? I'm willing to give Six Flags, a company that deals with these types of issues on a literally daily basis, the benefit of the doubt for having done due diligence on the feasibility of this transformation. Anything beyond that is purely conjecture, and less than completely informed conjecture at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadster Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 SF's has posted pics to the Texas Giant Page on their website. Says they've installed electromagentic brakes on the MCBR, which, based soley on my understanding of electromagnets, means no clamp brakes should be needed as the computer can adjust current as needed, thus making my previous comment on the subject null. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsme102 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 And the structure certainly looks questionable in spots, particularly on the high, over-banked turns. I know the ride isn't finished, but it appears in photos that they are just putting wood up in as they see fit and not by any plan. I would imagine that most coasters have their profiles designed first and the structure is designed to support the profile. Again, it doesn't seem that is happening here. I am really curious to see how this all turns out, but I won't be surprised if there are delays with this ride. Really? After everything that's been discussed in this thread, you honestly think they are just putting up structure with no plan. Making this up as they go along? Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Whereas companies like B&M and Intamin have wheel assemblies that make sure upstop and guide wheels have constant contact with the track providing a much smoother ride. There's nothing wrong with a little roughness on a quality Arrow classic. In any case with Texas Giant we can only hope these trains track well but we will have to wait to ride until we start passing judgments. This ride is a first for both Gerstlauer and Rocky Mountain. Actually b&m has wheel systems that constantly touch the track on their coaster, but the first B&M dive machines like oblivion only have about 98* drops not vertical because the upstops didn't constantly hold on the track.. And that bit of space has BARELY any effect on the smoothness of the ride and is not what makes arrows and vekomas rough, it has everything to do with their track shaping and their restraints. And that space exists on nearly every coaster in the world, wood or steel, except the dive machines. And for the last time: THE TRAINS WILL NOT AFFECT THE SMOOTHNESS OF THE RIDE, they will ride GREAT i can guarantee just by looking at the type of wheel systems they have. Plus there are no over shoulder restrains so any roughness in shaping will not most likely by felt. But it looks like its pretty well shaped, so overall THERE IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT when it comes to how well this will ride. Remember this is a STEEL coaster now. Not wooden. Considering no one (including you) has been on the ride you can not guarantee anything. Sure the trains look smooth but we will have to wait until it's open before we can "guarantee" anything. In regards to roughness of coasters there's a lot of factors: Maintenance, Train design, track design, etc...... therefore that gap between the upstop and guide wheels that Vekomas and Arrows have, makes a huge difference on how the train rides on the rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samisthabomb Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 SF's has posted pics to the Texas Giant Page on their website. Says they've installed electromagentic brakes on the MCBR, which, based soley on my understanding of electromagnets, means no clamp brakes should be needed as the computer can adjust current as needed, thus making my previous comment on the subject null. That first pic turns me on in unexplainable ways. Seriously, though, this thing looks crazier with each new photo! I hope all goes as planned and the ride is enjoyable. In my opinion, the structure seems sound and sturdy. Didn't Rocky Mountain Coasters say this track doesn't weigh much more than the original track? And, with those steel reinforcements attached to the overbanked turns, I'm sure the ride is structurally sound. I'm a huge TG fanboy. I'll admit, I was sad and upset to see it go, but when I started posting/following this forum and saw the construction pictures, my feelings turned from upset to excited! I'm planning a trip to SFOT and Sandy Lake on my birthday, so I can't wait to ride this for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texcoaster Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 SF's has posted pics to the Texas Giant Page on their website. Says they've installed electromagentic brakes on the MCBR, which, based soley on my understanding of electromagnets, means no clamp brakes should be needed as the computer can adjust current as needed, thus making my previous comment on the subject null. Of course, it doesn't say that there won't also be clamp brakes installed as well. Adjusting the current to e-stop a train works just fine unless there's a power outage. I will be amazed if the insurer doesn't require a backup system of some kind in addition to electrically controlled magnets to bring the train to a full stop on the MCBR in case of an emergency. Yes, I'm aware that it can be rigged to have a backup power supply that kicks in during a power failure... but I would still expect to see at least ONE brake up there that will physically make contact with the train in some way if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadster Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 ^ looking at the pictures there doesn't appear to be a clamp brake on the run nor does it look like they have brakets for one, not to say they won't put one in, just doesn't appear so at this moment in time. Depending on how the magentic brakes are setup, an electrical current *could* be used to "open" them and not "close" them. Intamin has had good success with magnetic brakes, and outside of their cable, haven't had any failures that I know of. I've read they installed electromags on MF, but never cared enough to pay attention. It just all depends on what they are using I suppose, maybe at some point we can find someone with Rocky Mountain who can tells us. So, how do I know you can use current to release and not clamp? well, lets just say I have the doors in some of our high security areas setup in this fashion, don't want the secrets getting out when the electric goes off That's what wikileaks is for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) There should still be some sort of braking mechanism that physically touches the train either a set of drive tires or friction brake calipers. If you look at iSpeed's YouTube pov you'll see magnetic brake fins as well as drive tires. On Bluefire's pov you'll see magnetic brakes in addition to friction brake calipers. Edited January 10, 2011 by DJeXeL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadster Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 there is a company that makes actuating magnetic brakes, just don't have the site with me at the moment. Acts like a clamp, stops smooth. Drive tires makes sense to get it going again or help it along. Until we find out straight from the horses mouth, I'm reserving further comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) ^Is it Velocity Magnetics (Dyna Brake) you're thinking of? That's the company GCI uses for magnetic brakes. I guess we'll have to wait until the MCBR is complete, you're correct. Edited January 10, 2011 by DJeXeL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadster Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Yes! that's them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 That looks to be the company that's being used on TG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadster Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCForce Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) I *hope* that the MCBR electro-magnetic brakes are adjustable. I wonder if they are going to use the brakes at all times (ala Titan or even Mamba at World of Fun) to slow the train there, maybe not as dramatic as Titan. I hope not. Then again the MCBR on Diamondback at KI was used all the time in '09 when I visited and was not detrimental to the ride in the least, but it was gently applied and not all out as on some other coasters like Titan. I would be a bit surprised to not see a clamp brake installed at the end of the MCBR after the electro-magnetic brakes, but not blown away - new technology and ways of doing things rarely surprise me anymore. (I remember the days when no one had a PC at home, there were no cell phones, debit cards, CD's, hell the VCR hadn't been invented yet either let alone DVD's, etc.) I guess I'll find out in person when the ride opens. I'm going to guess/speculate and say that there will be a clamp brake at the end of the MCBR and that they will trim the train there, but not in a way that will have an effect on the second half of the ride - for now. Edited January 11, 2011 by KCForce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 With the MCBR being magnetic they will be able to adjust braking force depending on speed of train. An empty train will obviously get less trimming than a fully loaded train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolliger&Mabillard Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 ^And a fully loaded train will have less trimming than a fully loaded gravy train Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Farmer Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) Intamin has had good success with magnetic brakes, and outside of their cable, haven't had any failures that I know of. Back in 2001 two trains on SFNE's Bizarro (S:ROS at the time) collided in the station. http://capital2.capital.edu/admin-staff/dalthoff/sros.html That page is a bit dated, but has some good info as to what happened. A punctured air hose left the calipers "open" due to lack of pressure. Edited January 11, 2011 by Ed Farmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingoman Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Where was it ever stated that Giant's brakes are electro magnets? They are just run of the mill mag brakes aren't they? The way they disengage is one side of it slides front to back and misalignes the the magnetic field letting the train roll through freely. The Big Spin coasters have a brake that does this, and I'm pretty sure that the maintenance guy at Lonestar Coasterthon explained this as well. As for the midcourse having something to stop the trains, I'm sure they will install tire drives since no other part of the ride seems to have calipers, and you can't see the entire brake run in that picture, so you aren't going to see signs of any other hardware besides what's in that photo. My guess would be anything that will stop the trains entirely will be located past the staircase, (behind the camera that took the photo). As for power outtages, the default position of those brakes should be to stop the trains. Power should only be necessary to open the brakes, not to close them. This way when power goes out everything stops on it's own. This is how MOST coasters are set up, but not all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skycoastin Steve Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Intamin has had good success with magnetic brakes, and outside of their cable, haven't had any failures that I know of. Back in 2001 two trains on SFNE's Bizarro (S:ROS at the time) collided in the station. http://capital2.capital.edu/admin-staff/dalthoff/sros.html That page is a bit dated, but has some good info as to what happened. A punctured air hose left the calipers "open" due to lack of pressure. That sorta thing happens more than you would expect, just the times when guests are involved get reported. I know for a fact it happened to MF a few years back when the trains were empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCForce Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Where was it ever stated that Giant's brakes are electro magnets? I got it from the official construction page for Six Flags Over Texas. http://www.sixflags.com/overTexas/rides/TexasGiant.aspx Under January 2011, second picture down shows the MCBR and says, "Electro-magnetic brakes are installed high above on the safety brake section.", And in the December 2010 update, it says "A modern electro-magnetic brake system is installed in the brake run.", next to the second picture down. Although, they do look like the Dynabrake's which according to their web site are permanent magnets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcfreak417 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Where was it ever stated that Giant's brakes are electro magnets? They are just run of the mill mag brakes aren't they? The way they disengage is one side of it slides front to back and misalignes the the magnetic field letting the train roll through freely. The Big Spin coasters have a brake that does this, and I'm pretty sure that the maintenance guy at Lonestar Coasterthon explained this as well. As for the midcourse having something to stop the trains, I'm sure they will install tire drives since no other part of the ride seems to have calipers, and you can't see the entire brake run in that picture, so you aren't going to see signs of any other hardware besides what's in that photo. My guess would be anything that will stop the trains entirely will be located past the staircase, (behind the camera that took the photo). As for power outtages, the default position of those brakes should be to stop the trains. Power should only be necessary to open the brakes, not to close them. This way when power goes out everything stops on it's own. This is how MOST coasters are set up, but not all. That makes no sense though....if the default position was in the closed position, the train would come to a complete stop every time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingoman Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'm saying they are only open when powered. By default position I mean the position they go to on their own. Think of it like a fire door in a building. They are usually spring loaded to stay closed. They only stay open if something holds them open. Take away what holds it open (in the coaster's case electricity) and the door closes (brakes close). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceospades1250 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 What he is saying, is it takes input to turn off the brakes. They are always on unless something inputs the energy to turn them off. That way if there is a power failure the brakes will be in an Off position and the train will stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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