Sportsdude360 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 ^Texas Skyscreamer should be first. It can have as much as an hour and a half wait later on. And, since it's new, guests will generally head for it right after the park opens. JRS, by comparison, isn't nearly as popular and is generally a walk on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) Has anyone seen the video of the Spain train crash? It's devastating! http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/25/world/europe/spain-train-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 73 people are dead. Guess what? Trains are still running. Can someone again please explain to me why Texas Giant AND Iron Rattler are still closed? I think the USA really needs to take more cues from Europe and the rest of the world on how to understand and react to situations. --Robb Edited July 25, 2013 by SharkTums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalmTree55 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) Has anyone seen the video of the Spain train crash? It's devastating! http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/25/world/europe/spain-train-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 73 people are dead. Guess what? Trains are still running. Can someone again please explain to me why Texas Giant AND Iron Rattler are still closed? I think the USA really needs to take more cues from Europe and the rest of the world on how to understand and react to situations. --Robb That awful! I know this point already has been made, but these trains will run tomorrow! Why can't we get over the NTAG incident?!?! Edited July 25, 2013 by SharkTums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougMJr Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 For those wondering, there is a video of the train derailing. [youtu_be]http://youtu.be/ytHe8aJyjfk[/youtu_be] Absolutely tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharkTums Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 ^The video is TERRIFYING, I saw it this morning on the news. They will investigate and learn from the crash and apply that in the future. Same could be done with coasters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnastyGnoric7 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 It's because the USA is the land of giga-scared people who panic over everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeykaise Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 It's because the USA is the land of giga-scared people who panic over everything you forgot to add repressed and ultra conservative. Americans need to learn to relax and enjoy life like Europeans do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndCamSS Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I had my first trip ever to the Texas parks planned a week and a half from now. I just canceled the entire Texas part, keeping just the first stop on the trip, SDC. At least Outlaw Run will be up and running in pitch black darkness. I'm not going to drive all the way from Chicago to Texas and not get to ride what we went all that way for. Hopefully we will get another shot at it next year. I figured if the Darien Lake Ride of Steel was down for two weeks over a death for which the reason was blatantly obvious, they won't get these back open any quicker. Nice comparison with the train accident btw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmeister Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I think part of what causes the public to freak out is that many of them genuinely believe that their is some real danger on amusement rides. In my experiences as a ride op for both Disney and LEGOLAND I have had guests come ask me, "Is this ride safe?" I got this question even when I was working at TTA at MK! Of course the media knows this as the vast majority of them probably believe that amusement rides have some danger to them too. So what happens when the media senses fear? They capitalize on it, which increases the problem exponentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanM64 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) I don't know why people can't understand that accidents happen. If there is a real safety problem with something, then yes, obviously it should be corrected. As bad as I feel about the NTAG incident and those invloved, it's time to move on. Riding coasters is probably the safest thing I do. There's a good reason you never hear of an incident like this- it's already safe! That Spanish train video is crazy- the train was going 105mph over the speed limit for that curve! It really shows you how far behind our transporation system is in the US, as 99% of our trains don't even go 105! Maybe the politicians and media worried about NTAG and creating federal amusement park guidelines should be more worried about why our transportation system, and other things, are so far behind the rest of the world? Edited July 26, 2013 by DanM64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I think part of what causes the public to freak out is that many of them genuinely believe that their is some real danger on amusement rides. In my experiences as a ride op for both Disney and LEGOLAND I have had guests come ask me, "Is this ride safe?" I got this question even when I was working at TTA at MK! Of course the media knows this as the vast majority of them probably believe that amusement rides have some danger to them too. So what happens when the media senses fear? They capitalize on it, which increases the problem exponentially. Thrill rides are built and marketed on the concept of fear too though. Parks build rides that look scary but are safe 99.9999% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenA07 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Has anyone seen the video of the Spain train crash? It's devastating! http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/25/world/europe/spain-train-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 73 people are dead. Guess what? Trains are still running. Can someone again please explain to me why Texas Giant AND Iron Rattler are still closed? I think the USA really needs to take more cues from Europe and the rest of the world on how to understand and react to situations. --Robb Robb the difference I see is one of necessity. A roller coaster is something that is an entertainment device and having it closed for a while doesn't have any real impact on anything other than the bottom line of the park. In Spain, closing the train system down for a short while would have a huge national level consequences and would be far more problematic. I look at it in the same way I look at a plane crash. Just because a plane crashes in the United States (with the obvious exception being 9/11) we don't ground all air traffic pending an investigation. With that said I think the reaction here is being blown way out of proportion. Something bad happened and likely it was preventable at some point. I'm sure somebody is going to be found responsible and policies will be adjusted. Then people will go back to having there 1 in 700 million chance of being killed at an amusement park and nobody will think about it again until the next time it happens a few years from now. I would be willing to guess that almost everything you do during your day at the park will be more dangerous than the time spent on the rides. Heart attacks and heat stroke are far bigger risks you take at the park each time you go. I've been into this hobby to some degree for about 15 years now, each accident I've seen (and really there have not been that many) has suddenly convinced people that these are death machines. Each time people overreact, then promptly forget and start going on the coaster again, until the next time an accident occurs and starts the entire cycle over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanM64 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Robb the difference I see is one of necessity. A roller coaster is something that is an entertainment device and having it closed for a while doesn't have any real impact on anything other than the bottom line of the park. In Spain, closing the train system down for a short while would have a huge national level consequences and would be far more problematic. I look at it in the same way I look at a plane crash. Just because a plane crashes in the United States (with the obvious exception being 9/11) we don't ground all air traffic pending an investigation. That is exactly why I think NTAG and IR should be open by now, in my opinion. Since amusement rides aren't a necessity for people, those who don't feel safe riding right after an accident can just make the choice to not ride! I'm sure the vast majority of people would be in line riding today if it were to open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 ^ Yeah, but the closures also act as a PR mechanism too...it makes it look like the park's are VERY invested in safety even if the rides themselves are actually safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon8899 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Here the general public is very at ease with rides at carnivals and parks. Mostly because everyone knows and can see that every ride - but also elevators, cars, trains, etc. have to be tested independently. A TÜV plaque is placed yearly on every ride. The TÜV also is responsible for any accident investigation for rides they cleared as "safe". The charming part of the TÜV is that it is not connected to showmen, park owners or manufacturers. You can find the TÜV plaques on any ride mostly at or near the operators cabin - they have to be placed easy visible to the public. Of course we also have accidents - but most rides run again after having been fixed and the TÜV cleared them. Next to the annual in-depth test carnival rides need a visual inspection by a TÜV engineer each time they are arrected - here a German article from the newspaper Ruhrnachrichten. The TÜV is around since after the war and is one of the most trusted institutions here. I've seen their plaques on rides in the Netherlands and Scandinavia, so they also do foreign service for countires who don't have such an organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston Thrills Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Has anyone seen the video of the Spain train crash? It's devastating! http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/25/world/europe/spain-train-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 73 people are dead. Guess what? Trains are still running. Can someone again please explain to me why Texas Giant AND Iron Rattler are still closed? I think the USA really needs to take more cues from Europe and the rest of the world on how to understand and react to situations. --Robb Robb the difference I see is one of necessity. A roller coaster is something that is an entertainment device and having it closed for a while doesn't have any real impact on anything other than the bottom line of the park. In Spain, closing the train system down for a short while would have a huge national level consequences and would be far more problematic. I look at it in the same way I look at a plane crash. Just because a plane crashes in the United States (with the obvious exception being 9/11) we don't ground all air traffic pending an investigation. To add to this, stopping train travel in Spain following the accident would be akin to stopping all air travel after a plane crash, while the closure of Rattler and Giant pending the investigation is more akin to the recent groundings of entire fleets of aircraft types (ex, Boeing 787s) pending investigation into certain possible safety issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazywolf88 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I still wonder why trains don't have guide/upstop wheels like coasters do? I don't normally hear of a ride derailing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanM64 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) I still wonder why trains don't have guide/upstop wheels like coasters do? I don't normally hear of a ride derailing. More wheels = more friction. Assuming equipment and tracks are properly maintained, and the train is handled properly, it shouldn't derail, either. I'd be more than happy to explain more, but the SFoT thread probably isn't the right place. Feel free to PM me if you'd like! Edited July 25, 2013 by DanM64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenA07 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 ^ Yeah, but the closures also act as a PR mechanism too...it makes it look like the park's are VERY invested in safety even if the rides themselves are actually safe. My guess is Iron Rattler being closed is Six Flags way of say, "hey look guys, we care about safety, look we're conducting a full investigation!" But yeah, I'm sure the truth is they could have left Texas Giant open and not missed a cycle and nothing more would happen. However the media backlash from that would be devistating for the park. I expect Iron Rattler to reopen Saturday and Texas Giant to follow in another week or so. The park needs to draw that fine line between figuring out how long to leave it closed in order to make the public happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSous Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 This is all so sad but of course i had a trip planned for sfot in 2 weeks Texas Giant was the sole reason for going, but i guess off to st. louis we go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandallDuell Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Has anyone seen the video of the Spain train crash? It's devastating! http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/25/world/europe/spain-train-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 73 people are dead. Guess what? Trains are still running. Can someone again please explain to me why Texas Giant AND Iron Rattler are still closed? I think the USA really needs to take more cues from Europe and the rest of the world on how to understand and react to situations. --Robb Robb the difference I see is one of necessity. A roller coaster is something that is an entertainment device and having it closed for a while doesn't have any real impact on anything other than the bottom line of the park. In Spain, closing the train system down for a short while would have a huge national level consequences and would be far more problematic. I look at it in the same way I look at a plane crash. Just because a plane crashes in the United States (with the obvious exception being 9/11) we don't ground all air traffic pending an investigation. With that said I think the reaction here is being blown way out of proportion. Something bad happened and likely it was preventable at some point. I'm sure somebody is going to be found responsible and policies will be adjusted. Then people will go back to having there 1 in 700 million chance of being killed at an amusement park and nobody will think about it again until the next time it happens a few years from now. I would be willing to guess that almost everything you do during your day at the park will be more dangerous than the time spent on the rides. Heart attacks and heat stroke are far bigger risks you take at the park each time you go. I've been into this hobby to some degree for about 15 years now, each accident I've seen (and really there have not been that many) has suddenly convinced people that these are death machines. Each time people overreact, then promptly forget and start going on the coaster again, until the next time an accident occurs and starts the entire cycle over again. Solid post, a very necessary part of an economy that publicly funded the rail system VS a ride at an amusement park isn't exactly the same thing. I think the timing of it makes it convenient to use as an example. Also, from the start it seems that the cause (operator error (going too fast around that curve)) is a bit more clear than New Texas Giant. Obviously it appears that the guest's body dimensions + the restraint style is what led to the Texas accident, but putting in place a "solution" isn't quite as easy as the Spanish simply charging the train engineer with multiple crimes. Bottom line is that there simply isn't the need to "rush" to get the ride open as there is to keep the workers/tourists of Spain moving around the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharkTums Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Bottom line is that there simply isn't the need to "rush" to get the ride open as there is to keep the workers/tourists of Spain around the country. Have you been to Spain? I don't think they know what the word 'rush' means! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandallDuell Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Hah, yah, touche'. I guess my point is that it doesn't surprise me that they didn't (as Six Flags has done) shut done other trains just like this one....they have a bit more motivation/necessity to keep them running. But, yes, I think "rush" is a term for which there is no Spanish word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
railsrust Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 ^ Yeah, but the closures also act as a PR mechanism too...it makes it look like the park's are VERY invested in safety even if the rides themselves are actually safe. My guess is Iron Rattler being closed is Six Flags way of say, "hey look guys, we care about safety, look we're conducting a full investigation!" But yeah, I'm sure the truth is they could have left Texas Giant open and not missed a cycle and nothing more would happen. However the media backlash from that would be devistating for the park. I expect Iron Rattler to reopen Saturday and Texas Giant to follow in another week or so. The park needs to draw that fine line between figuring out how long to leave it closed in order to make the public happy. True, but I can see this biting them in the ass as well. I'm not saying it will! However, when there are closures of the same ANYTHING, people begin to question whether or not there is something wrong with that "thing". This is obviously not the most logical train of thought, but when you have a situation like this people tend to leave their brains at the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmcdllr Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) Has anyone seen the video of the Spain train crash? It's devastating! http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/25/world/europe/spain-train-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 73 people are dead. Guess what? Trains are still running. Can someone again please explain to me why Texas Giant AND Iron Rattler are still closed? I think the USA really needs to take more cues from Europe and the rest of the world on how to understand and react to situations. --Robb It's because America is a society of ignorant, greedy, paranoid people. Ignorant in that a super safe coaster with ONE accident/fatality seems to be more important than a train crash with 73 fatalities for example and as you eluded to compared to themepark coasters, cars are basically death traps on wheels, killing far more people each year and every day than coasters ever have, yet there is no outrage or seems to be any concern over this fact. Greedy in that closing down a rail line, public transit, airline significantly hurts the bottom line and they will all but avoid that to determine exactly what happened and how to prevent it happening again. Paranoid in that this ONE accident on this coaster causes people to just assume every coaster is dangerous which could not be farther from the truth- that is also ignorance too. I totally agree with you, this country really needs to look at how other societies handle things like this, there is a lot to be learned. Basically, America is just dumb, I live here and I'm not at all proud of that. Edited July 25, 2013 by Tmcdllr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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