Six Flags Over Texas (SFOT) Discussion Thread

[ArizonaGuy]

Here is a video link for WOAI San Antonio. They have a photo of the woman and she was quite large in my opinion. I dunno if it's already been posted but I didn't see anything so here it is.

 

WOAI news link on SFoT death

 

 

*oopsie my bad* it was posted. Sorry Elissa

Edited July 22, 2013 by ArizonaGuy

[SharkTums]

^It's been posted for several pages now. The general consensus here now seems to be that it wasn't really a restraint failure as much as an unfortunate 'person of size' issue.

[_koppen]

What a horrible accident, and I really feel for the family of the victim.

 

I always get so sad when somebody passes away on an amusement ride, designed for maximum fun.

[chadster]

This morning's analyst call with Six Flags stated there is now both an internal and external investigation being conducted.

 

Analyst Call

[805Andrew]

IF the issue was the lap bar sitting on her stomach and not her thighs then it's also conceivable that IF there was a seat belt it also would have been sitting on her stomach and not her thighs. So the point is moot.

 

What needed to be done is she needed to lift up her stomach and push the lap bar down over her thighs and the lower her stomach over it. Or she needed to not ride.

 

You are probably right. Some reports are saying that the rider felt she wasn't secure and when she called for help the rider attendant simply said "you're fine". If that's the case, then the attendant should have rechecked her restraint and either readjusted it so it was on her thigh or decided she was too large to ride and taken her off. I think this going to come down to human error and not mechanical error. It's really sad, especially for her son who was sitting next to her who may get PTSD that may make him never want to ride a roller coaster again. The park may feel the need to take action on the restraint system even if its just human error (this is Six Flags after all) and add an additional restraint. If so, I would rather have them add a lap seat belt or three-point seat belt instead of an OTSR which would ruin part of the sensation of the ride.

[DJeXeL]

^^That is great that an external investigation is being done. What will be interesting is if the findings vary.

[DougMJr]

I'm hoping for a speedy and thorough investigation.

[vacoaster09]

As redundant as seatbelts are and un-necessary as some may see them, based on the actions taken in the past by Six Flags following the Superman Incident, you may see one of two things or both. First, seatbelts are likely to be added. Even if the system as designed works, the guests' perception (non-enthusiast) of safety matters. Furthermore, Six Flags could go the extra step and have gerstlauer redesign the lap bars to have the vertical side bars like on superman:ROS and bizarro.

 

I have to take a step back and always think of how terrifying such a freak accident could be. This seems to just be a freak accident that no one could have forseen. Also it very possible to get a green light but for restraints to not restrain a person properly depending on body shape (both small and big). Green light (or rather known as limit switches) only measure that a restraint is in the minimal closed position. It does not however, ensure that the restraint is snug against the rider or that it properly restrains the ride (i.e. by the upper thight not stomach). It is up to the attendants to enforce this part and to explain to guest. I could see six flags chain wide make sure their attendants and operators focus on this. We can't rely on the computerize/ control system to tell us everything. Therefore, the she had a green light in order the train to be dispatched, however was the restrain accomodating her as designed according to the safety manual... chances are the answer is no. Six Flags will likely be liable and settle out of court based on what I just stated.

[Hercules]

I am sure the "person of size" thing is going to be rebutted by all of the fat Americans in this country. If her size is considered to be the main cause for the accident, and then people of her size won't be able to ride the ride in the future, it will be seen as a discrimination against larger people.

[Wallfan]

Here we go.... USA Today.COM has an article "How Safe Are Roller Coasters?". I can't see the video at work so if someone can look at it and advise if it's a good or negative article.

[mikeykaise]

what a tragic accident and prayers for the family. I know when I ride a roller coaster I always push down 2 or 3 times to make sure the lap bar is down all the way. I trust the ride ops but it never hurts to double check them before leaving the station and going up the hill. I agree with most everybody, with the bar still being down on the return into the station it wasn't a mechanical failure but just a body type vs lap bar. I couldn't imagine seeing something happen like this towards the beginning of the ride and having to sit there during the rest of the course after seeing that. My prayers for everyone on that train. One thing that the GP needs to keep in mind is that there's no perfectly safe roller coaster and that when you sit down on one, you have to be aware of "yes I realize there's an implied risk of inury" that comes from being hauled around so fast and twisting at such angles.

[Dr. M]

Here we go.... USA Today.COM has an article "How Safe Are Roller Coasters?". I can't see the video at work so if someone can look at it and advise if it's a good or negative article.

 

Well, I'm 47 seconds into it and they've already called NTAG "the world's steepest wooden roller coaster".

[coastercrazy216]

As redundant as seatbelts are and un-necessary as some may see them, based on the actions taken in the past by Six Flags following the Superman Incident, you may see one of two things or both. First, seatbelts are likely to be added. Even if the system as designed works, the guests' perception (non-enthusiast) of safety matters. Furthermore, Six Flags could go the extra step and have gerstlauer redesign the lap bars to have the vertical side bars like on superman:ROS and bizarro.

 

 

What would the vertical side bars have done? In this situation, probably nothing.

[chickenbowl]

I am sure the "person of size" thing is going to be rebutted by all of the fat Americans in this country. If her size is considered to be the main cause for the accident, and then people of her size won't be able to ride the ride in the future, it will be seen as a discrimination against larger people.

 

I'm sure it could be seen as such, but if discrimination is keeping larger people safe, then so be it. If this is really becoming a problem will ride manufacturers have to start catering better to obese American riders? I know B&M has an option to include "Big Boy" seats, maybe that will start becoming more commonplace?

 

I know as of now it's uncomfortable and awkward to the ride operators (and subsequently embarrassing to the guests) to turn away riders for their size, especially if they're seemingly in denial of the issue at hand (you all know how entitled Americans can be).

[ernierocker]

I don't see how a park can really set a weight/size limitation. Short of an employee at the line entrance taking everyone's body measurements with a tape measure, it really isn't specifically about a person's weight that is the problem. Like Robb said, it is more about volume. Someone could weigh 230 lbs and have a 52 waist and not be able to fit on a coaster, where someone who weighs 260 and has a 46 waist could ride. It's all about where that person holds their weight.

Edited July 22, 2013 by ernierocker

[simaand]

Here is the Direct Link to the USATODAY Video, http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/usanow/2013/07/22/2574761/

[MG]

I don't see how a park can really set a weight/size limitation. Short of an employee at the line entrance taking everyone's body measurements with a tape measure, it really isn't specifically about a person's weight that is the problem. Like Robb said, it is more about volume. Someone could weigh 230 lbs and have a 52 waist and not be able to fit on a coaster, where someone who weighs 260 and has a 46 waist could ride. It's all about where that person holds their weight.

 

Measure if in doubt? The aviation industry has the power to do it. If a pilot is concerned that the average weight distribution normally utilised won't work for a certain load of passengers, then he/she can order the entire load of passengers to be weighed. Training employees to recognise dangerous body shapes would probably be a good solution.

 

A general question, why do so many manufacturers utilise a T bar design, rather than an inverted U design? Supplemented with a large seat horn, it would make rides a lot safer without reducing ridership.

[Krandor]

This morning's analyst call with Six Flags stated there is now both an internal and external investigation being conducted.

 

Analyst Call

 

I think I had read that Gertlauer was supposed to be onsite today to check things out as well. I wonder if that is what six flags is calling the "external investigation" because technically it is external to six flags itself.

[chadster]

Update: Official Cause of Death

 

Dallas News

 

The Tarrant County Medical Examiner says the woman thrown from The Texas Giant at Six Flags Over Texas Friday night died of “multiple traumatic injuries due to [a] fall from roller coaster.”

 

Her time of death is listed as 7 p.m. And the coroner officially lists the manner of death as “accident.”

 

The coroner names the 52-year-old Dallas woman as Rosa Ayala-Goana. Her family told our reporters that her name was Rosy Esparza. The Tarrant County ME’s office has confirmed that her husband’s last name is Esparza.

 

She turned 52 on June 28.

 

As we reported, the Texas Giant will remain closed until Six Flags finishes its investigation, which could last months. Gerstlauer Amusement Rides, the German firm that manufactured the Giant’s cars, is sending investigators to Arlington this week to assist with the inquiry. Arlington police will leave the investigation to Six Flags and Gerstlauer officials.

 

Six Flags’ Chairman Jim Reid-Anderson said Monday morning the amusement park operator will have no further comment on the incident until after Six Flags and Gerstlauer’s investigations are finished.

 

Said Reid-Anderson in a morning conference call with analysts, “We’ve been here throughout the weekend to support our team as we work through this tragic event. Utilizing both internal and external experts we are investigating the cause of the accident, and until that process is complete with have no additional information to share with you about the incident. The ride has been closed. And you can rest assured that it will remain closed until we are certain that it is safe to ride.

 

“Our deepest sympathy goes out to the family and we are providing them support as best as we can. We ask that you keep the guest’s family in your prayers.”

[AllenA07]

It was on the news (NBC Dallas if anybody is really curious) this morning that people from Gerstlauer will be on site today.

[Skycoastin Steve]

I feel like Six Flags kills so many people that there should be Vegas odds as to the next time it happens. Put me down for $100 in June 2014.

[singemfrc]

Here is the Direct Link to the USATODAY Video, http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/usanow/2013/07/22/2574761/

So much cringe and facepalm in that video..

[BrandonR]

I feel like Six Flags kills so many people that there should be Vegas odds as to the next time it happens. Put me down for $100 in June 2014.

 

Of course the largest amusement park chain is going to have the most accidents... But even then it's not that frequent. When was the last time?

[bhartley]

5) A lap seat belt could have prevented ejection from happening, but newer rides with hydraulic restraints are believed to not need seat belts due to the statistical impossibility of the restraints failing. It's also impossible for the manufacturer to test the restraints for every possible human body shape and size. This accident required the perfect storm of rider body type, operation conditions and G-forces to happen. Thus I don't believe the blame can be placed on the manufacturer of the trains in court, and certainly not RMC.

 

This is where the entire issue lies, and I'm sorry but I don't buy it. If there are conditions where the lap bar can fail, and we KNOW this is true because it's happened on other rides in the past, then there should have been seat belts. If they didn't want to install them because they reduce capacity, then the designers and the park created an unsafe ride in the name of increased profit margins, no more, no less, and they should be held accountable.

 

As an aside, I've never ridden a ride with shin bars. Now that I see what they actually look like, I must say they don't look comfortable at all. Though I guess I'd prefer them to OTSR.

 

No, you're making a distinction here. The issue is not the lap bar failing, because it's statistically impossible. I also want to point out that you're putting words in my mouth about the seat belts. I never claimed the manufacturer intentionally left them out against safety protocol just for rider capacity gains. I don't have access to all the safety studies and mechanical testing they performed, but most if not all hydraulic restraints do not have seat belts. And that is across multiple manufacturers. The real issue here is that apparently there is not a one-size-fits-all restraint that can fit all body types at the programmed minimum restraint angle, and that's something I can't speculate about because I haven't seen the data.

 

 

I think you it the nail on the head.

[singemfrc]

^^ From what I could dig up real quick it looks like almost exactly 1 year ago at La Ronde...but you're still correct, it seems more likely than it is because of all of the sensationalist journalism...same thing with plane crashes.