Commando Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I would have rather seen a re track of the whole coaster and 3 train operation. The funny thing is they can't even maintain Hades the way it is. After a few years i'm sure that inversion will be horribly painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenbowl Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 ^ One of the main reasons Hades got rough was because the PTC trains were tearing it up, the new Timberliners are supposed to be much better for the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbydinn Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I would have rather seen a re track of the whole coaster and 3 train operation. I don't see Hades ever running more than one train. With the location of the brake run, adding a transfer track and storage track wouldn't the easiest thing since not only is it pretty high up but the ride exit and park paths would go directly below it. They could possibly add it after the station, but it would still require some layout changes and maybe moving some paths around. Regardless, I just don't see the park spending that kind of money for something that won't make them money park. Remember, 99% of the local area go to Mt. Olympus for the waterpark, not the coasters. The coasters will never been the main draw for the park, so I would expect to see money that could be spent on making Hades run more trains being spent on the waterpark and hotels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharkTums Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I spoke with Alan from Rocky Mountain quite a bit today and one thing he really emphasized was that you can't just throw on a better train and get a better experience. You have to have a good solid track, supports and everything that goes with it first. I really worry that unless they also retrack all of Hades it will be painful right out of the gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simaticable Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 ^ At least there's Outlaw Run and Iron Rattler if Hades 360 turns out bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Farmer Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I would have rather seen a re track of the whole coaster and 3 train operation. I don't think I've ever waited more than 30 minutes for Hades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbydinn Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 In Coaster Crews interview with the park president he said they will be doing a lot of re-tracking to "make the ride seem new again." I have noticed that some of the worst parts have had some work done on them over the past few years, but it only takes one season to completely tear them up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajfelice Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) I love the idea, but not to be a negative nancy.... Hopefully, the Timberliner conversion goes smoothly unlike The Voyage. Both of these coasters are extreme in terms of layout elements and wear and tear. From a source who is best friends with Holiday World ownership, the issue with these trains is durability. The Voyage is tearing them apart because of their lighter construction. I like to assume Gravity Group has done some more homework, but the results haven't been proven yet. Timberliners are inversion capable, PTCs are not (as far as I know), so if the conversion runs into trouble Mt. Olympus could be dealing with some serious downtime. Holiday World is lucky they can easily use PTCs while the Timberliners are being adjusted. Best of Luck on this awesome idea that may prove that Topper Track isn't required for "successful" inversions. (SoB was not successful IMO) I'm not completely sure if the entire loop on SoB was steel, or just the support structure was steel with wood track attached. Edited November 13, 2012 by ajfelice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myself Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) The loop on SoB was steel, so I wouldn't count it anyway. Not sure how I feel about this...If it's successful, great. If not, oh well. Just throwing this out there...Waldameer...don't get any ideas. Ravine Flyer II might have a far turnaround too, but it's fine the way it is. Edited November 14, 2012 by Myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggernel Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Looks like an opening month trip is in order. Don't want to wait too long with this park running it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteornotes Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I spoke with Alan from Rocky Mountain quite a bit today and one thing he really emphasized was that you can't just throw on a better train and get a better experience. You have to have a good solid track, supports and everything that goes with it first. I really worry that unless they also retrack all of Hades it will be painful right out of the gate. This is my fear as well. Hades is quite brutal now, and I don't think just putting new trains on it is going to help. Let's hope there's a significant amount of track work done during this conversion. dt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I remember that in 2010, the tunnel portions were good--but getting to them was absolute hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philrad71 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Three pages and no talks of restraints yet...what's going on here?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrick Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 The loop on SoB was steel, so I wouldn't count it anyway. Steel support, wood track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayCoasterGuy Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Hades opening year was top-notch. It quickly went down hill. The bigger issue at Mt. Olympus is the operation of the rides/park. I hate to say the worst I've ever experienced, but it probably is. Painfully slow dispatches - with one train operation and always single seats empty. It wouldn't be easy to just add a 2nd train - but with the help of Gravity Group - they could. When asked a few years ago about why they don't have 2 trains on their coasters, the park owner replied "we don't EVER want a possibility of a collision." So there you go. The good thing (for me!) is that Cyclops being the *small* coaster, most guests head to Hades, then Zues. So Cyclops - with it's scary air time - usually has a short wait. It's really a shame. With the cool theme and really good coasters (well, when Hades and Zues were really good when they were new) it could really be a GREAT park. I have a feeling they settle with the idea 'it's just a tourist stop' and most guests only pass through occasionally. The park is 3 hours from me, but we usually settle for Great America as we are much-more-guaranteed a good time. My friends and I left the park a couple years ago to back track to Great America, it was really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadster Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I spoke with Alan from Rocky Mountain quite a bit today and one thing he really emphasized was that you can't just throw on a better train and get a better experience. You have to have a good solid track, supports and everything that goes with it first. I really worry that unless they also retrack all of Hades it will be painful right out of the gate. This is why I believe the RMC system will be solid, reliable, and better than GG's version. I thought Ravine was quite rough for its age and with Waldameer looking at a re-track, as Holiday World is doing, I just don't have faith that their system will hold up. Hades hands down could be a great ride, but the track is crap, in no small part thanks to Mt O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfabee Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 The coaster will steal the "steepest non-inverted turn" record from Millennium Force(which has three, 122* overbanked turns) But was Millennium Force the true holder of that record in the first place? Mr. Freeze is listed in RCDB as a one-inversion coaster. If that's true, then the ride's overbanked turn must be a non-inversion. I'd have to go to my notes, but I believe that turn is banked to more than 122 degrees off the vertical. If my recollection is correct, then MF never had the record in the first place. That could bring up the well-worn question of how overbanked you can get before you become an inversion, a la Drachen Fire's cutback element. But rather than wade through all that, I'll (try to) limit the question to just Mr. Freeze... Is it widely agreed that Freeze is a one-inversion machine? If this question is too OT for this conversation, then I'll happily accept redirection to a new or different thread without complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayCoasterGuy Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 With all the bickering about "first inversion" or "first wooden loop" In the late 1890s: Double Trouble! Look, a 'hybrid'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyRCT3 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 The coaster will steal the "steepest non-inverted turn" record from Millennium Force(which has three, 122* overbanked turns) But was Millennium Force the true holder of that record in the first place? Mr. Freeze is listed in RCDB as a one-inversion coaster. If that's true, then the ride's overbanked turn must be a non-inversion. I'd have to go to my notes, but I believe that turn is banked to more than 122 degrees off the vertical. If my recollection is correct, then MF never had the record in the first place. That could bring up the well-worn question of how overbanked you can get before you become an inversion, a la Drachen Fire's cutback element. But rather than wade through all that, I'll (try to) limit the question to just Mr. Freeze... Is it widely agreed that Freeze is a one-inversion machine? If this question is too OT for this conversation, then I'll happily accept redirection to a new or different thread without complaint. Mr Freeze is considered 1 inversion, well atleast by me. And Mr. Freeze is banked at 120°. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperLover Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 What do people mean when they say SoB had wood track with steel supports? It had to have steel track. Correct me if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperLover Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 ^I meant steel rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfabee Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Mr Freeze is considered 1 inversion, well atleast by me. And Mr. Freeze is banked at 120°. After a bit of digging, I finally found my notes. Freeze was designed with a maximum bank angle of slightly more than 130° at the apex of that overbanked turn. Most of the turn is banked less severely, of course. As is the case with all of these maneuvers, it's only the maximum instantaneous bank angle that ever gets noted. This certainly wasn't the first time that a ride's advertised stats were a poor fit to its actual stats, but this case is a bit unusual because generally the numbers tend to get inflated rather than deflated... Interestingly - and I had completely forgotten about this - many people were calling that overbanked turn a "wingover" in the late 1990s. "Wingover" has a different generally accepted definition now. You there! Fetch me an onion for my belt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 They should probably get the Timberliners working on Voyage first... This is certainly going to be an interesting conversion. I love Gravity Group rides, but they are really CCI 2.0: Deliver great rides on a budget, however they require a ton of TLC to say a top notch ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatdan Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 The bigger issue at Mt. Olympus is the operation of the rides/park. I hate to say the worst I've ever experienced, but it probably is. I've never been on Hades, as I haven't been to the park since I was there in about 2003 and they managed to... ...dispatch a train halfway out of the station before realizing that no one ever got near it to check the harnesses (we had literally just sat down). - and - ...tell us to check our own harnesses and give them a thumbs up when we were ready for the ride to go. I've only ever had one other issue half as glaring at another park, and these both happened in the same day. I've been to the Dells since then, and I've rode other things there, but never even thought about going back. This sounds interesting, but what I've heard about the operations... I still think I won't be heading back any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Finn Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 It is sort of a shame. A family run park on the bigger side. If they spent some money to maintain their coasters, and had good operations, I'd be stoked to go there. I love how loosely the Greek Theme is played, too. It seems like they just don't care. The additions to Hades could be nice. A retracking would be great, but if they aren't going to maintain it, then who even cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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